Totally destroyed by wife's affair with our neighbor

[2sunny]

Do you think your W has been honest with you now? Honest with the counselor?

 

What has the counselor suggested? What has the counselor requested of your wife so far?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Really you two aren't meant (or deserve) to be together. I read what you write and your wife is manipulative and disingenuous. On and on about porn on the net and some flirty emails, 100% sure you have cheated.... 100X sex in 10 years!!!! That is sexless by definition since day 1.

 

You still however come off as someone who made a business deal. Yes you love your kids and wife and claim to be an engaged father. However you still come off that most important is your career and that you will continue to travel and it is unpredictable, but that is your choice. I've posted questions that you haven't answered (your prerogative), and the options available in terms of your career, which will do just fine if you are as good, sought after and in need as you've stated. The point is you have not stated any changes you are willing to make.

 

The fact you've been in counseling and gotten nowhere indicate the chasm between you two.

 

You aren't a bad person, and maybe your wife is. I don't like what you've written about her, but that does not men she won't meet someone with whom she'd have a happy life/marriage with. The point is you don't mesh together from what you've written.

 

Of course you could just agree on an open marriage too, because it is pretty obvious, whether she cheats or not going forward, she will not be happy and always open to lapses, and will easily rationalize it.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Toodamnpragmatic

[2sunny]

Do you think, given the same set of perfect circumstances, your wife would choose it again?

[Chi townD]

.

I would only stay if I knew with no doubt that she is 200% invested.

 

 

 

^^^^^^ THAT!!!!!!

 

I totally agree with Pierre. If she says that she doesn't trust you...well, that's not 200% now is it. I feel that she would just go through the motions of a R.

[2sure]

When my X husband was cheating on me, it would simultaneously bring up arguments about our finances, particularly my earnings and expenses.

 

Initially I had no idea he was cheating, but knew we had a problem. So, I took his concerns to heart even though I didn't agree with him. I stopped spending ans started working more. Mind you, at this time we owned two homes and vacationed several times a year.

 

Eventually I caught him cheating and although he was remorseful , he also focused on my finances as the main issue. So, we attended MC and worked on reconciliation. Meanwhile, our careers flourished and we were living Well. We purchased a summer home, we made large financial investments. I continued to increase my work load, working hard has never been an issue fr me.. We were happy .

 

He then started complaining about my spending again. This man wore nothing but hand made shirts and suits, appreciated only the best of everything. I KNEW I was banking much more than I was spending. So, I took a good look at the books with our accountant. We were in better shape than ever. We were flush .

 

I knew he was cheating. I came to discover his cheating had escalated to his living an entire fantasy life , beyond the scope of imagination. After DDay, he continued to be sorry , hated himself for it , and accepted he had a real problem. Yet he always came back to the stress over my finances.

 

I divorced him. During the process it was found I had out earned him and he had spent more money on his infidelity hobby than we paid in property taxes on three homes.

 

To this day, he probably still tells himself that my spending initiated his problem.

[2sure]

I want to add to my above post what my point is in relation to you. My X had himself convinced that his stress over my finances led in part to his infidelity.

Because he felt that way, I took ownership of it and focused on correcting it.

In the end, I couldn't correct it , because it just wasn't a real problem.

 

Your wife feels she cannot trust you. And you want to correct that. But she has no reason to feel that way, so...how do you correct that? Especially when she is hinging the health of your marriage on it.

[Oberfeldwebel]

What I struggle with is whether I can really get over how hurt I am and how deeply deceived and wronged I feel. That's really where my original post started and it's still where I'm at. I do love her, despite all of this. I'm just wondering if too much damage has been done.

 

I hate to tell you this, but this is a question only you can answer. Some want to reconcile immediately, while others are one and done. We can all give you what we did, but none of that really matters. The bottom line is this, is it too much for you? I will tell you I think that all marriages can be saved IF both parties are completely honest and work to correct the problems. I don't know this woman at all but I got to tell you, the fact that she was up front with you has to count for something. Most people in this situation would lie their butt off, until they were caught. There are no guarantees that it will work, not is it even a right or wrong answer. However I think that you are tough enough to give it a try. Best wishes to you either way.

[road]

I hate to tell you this, but this is a question only you can answer. Some want to reconcile immediately, while others are one and done. We can all give you what we did, but none of that really matters. The bottom line is this, is it too much for you? I will tell you I think that all marriages can be saved IF both parties are completely honest and work to correct the problems. I don't know this woman at all but I got to tell you, the fact that she was up front with you has to count for something. Most people in this situation would lie their butt off, until they were caught. There are no guarantees that it will work, not is it even a right or wrong answer. However I think that you are tough enough to give it a try. Best wishes to you either way.

 

 

I will add that 78% of marriages survive an affair. That most BS's are better to wait 6 months and process what has happened and let their minds recover before making and life changing decisions.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Hi, just wanted to cheer you on. Don't let the nay sayers here get you down. The forum tends to be very pro-divorce...and sometimes I'm one of those. I'm not in this case. Divorce is so awful. It was 10x worse than I thought it would be. If you can work it out give it your best shot. If she tells the truth, goes no contact, is transparent, takes responsibility, expresses her love and remorse, etc then things are going well. Just get out of that neighborhood. That's my main advice.

 

As for being stuck, just make your move. If you see that she isn't moving...well then maybe I will change my advice. She needs to be putting in that 200% effort like someone mentioned. What is it that she's stuck on?

[thefatherof1]

As I'm less than a month from discovery I'm probably not the best person to give advice. Right now, I'm going through the ANGER phase of my recovery and I'm having a hard time coping with all the emotions. As for disclosing the affair to her family, I'm going through the same dilemma. At first, I wanted to tell the whole world what my wife did, but I ended up sharing that information only with close friends and family. This is a choice that's been very hard for me as I know she hasn't told her family. To be honest with you, it's embarrassing telling people about her infidelity and I wonder if they look at me as an inadequate husband. I know it doesn't make sense, but that's how I feel. Should her family know what type of person she is? What she's done to you? What she's done to her marriage and family? Probably. Although, I recommend letting some time pass before making any rash decisions that can't be taken back. I believe disclosing her actions will make you feel better, but it will also let her family know the type of person she is, and I think that's important. This is a tough one.

[road]

As I'm less than a month from discovery I'm probably not the best person to give advice. Right now, I'm going through the ANGER phase of my recovery and I'm having a hard time coping with all the emotions. As for disclosing the affair to her family, I'm going through the same dilemma. At first, I wanted to tell the whole world what my wife did, but I ended up sharing that information only with close friends and family. This is a choice that's been very hard for me as I know she hasn't told her family. To be honest with you, it's embarrassing telling people about her infidelity and I wonder if they look at me as an inadequate husband. I know it doesn't make sense, but that's how I feel. Should her family know what type of person she is? What she's done to you? What she's done to her marriage and family? Probably. Although, I recommend letting some time pass before making any rash decisions that can't be taken back. I believe disclosing her actions will make you feel better, but it will also let her family know the type of person she is, and I think that's important. This is a tough one.

 

 

Where the BH is to scared to do a full exposure the affair continues until the WW leaves the marriage or the OM knocks up the WW.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Leftoverz

 

At this point I have only one piece of advice for you. You should have a temporary separation from your wife so that you have time to yourself to mull over things and see how you feel. I would say that when you are alone you should write down the various aspects of your situation as facts and then write down your reactions to each of these facts as they occur to you. As a lawyer I am sure that you will be able to bring to bear your considerable acumen and analytical skills in going through the various details and sift the wheat from the chaff so to say.

 

You need to separate the bare facts from the emotional noise and then reflect on the course of action that you would like to take. I agree that your feelings (read emotions) will play a part in your thought process and that is as it should be. However the preponderance of your thinking should be logical and not based on emotion. Yes, you would have to take into consideration your value system, what your boundaries are, what you can accept and what you cannot, and then take a very calculated and hard headed decision about where your interests lie and what your best course of action is going to be. Once you have done that you should move decisively to implement this and let nothing come in your way to deter you. I hope this helps! Cheers!

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Your wife doesn't trust you because she knows how easy cheating is. She thinks if she's doing it you must be as well. It's just projection on her part. She has zero right to feel this way. Others will say that if she feels this way you have to deal with it. I don't. I say tell her flat out that it's a joke that she can look at you and say that, and say that if she says it again you're ending the discussion because you won't be accused of her actions just because she wants the score to be even. I wouldn't entertain her delusions for one second.

 

 

 

If your career isn't the most important thing in your life, what is? It isn't your kids. If it were, you would end this job that has you on the road more than 50% of your life and you'd be home to be a dad should you divorce. Instead you're already planning on seeing your kids 26 times a year because of your job. That's putting your job above your kids, as much as you don't want to admit that's the kind of dad you are. That doesn't mean you're a bad father. It just means being a father isn't as important as being an 'important international business executive'. Right now you can't afford to be dishonest about anything, including this. You need to admit what really matters to you, and being a dad is number 2 (at least) in favor of your job.

 

 

 

??? Why is this important? Tell if you want, don't if you don't. Do you think it will help her and your marriage? How? If not, then why tell? Do you want them to watch her while you travel? That isn't their job.

 

Bottom line (to me): Your wife cheated and lied for 2 years. Basically she and her boyfriend just tolerated the days you were home and waited for you to leave again so they could get back to their normal lives. She even sat in counseling for 2 years, wasting her time and yours, because she saw the marriage as a farce so why bother with counseling. You wanted it, or it was the thing to do, or whatever, but she didn't take it, or your marriage, seriously.

 

Why? Hmmm, maybe you said it best in your opening statement here: You wanted a career and she wanted a family. A family includes a husband, and your career didn't include you being a husband. Sure, you were a husband in name and title, but not in practice. You weren't home most of the time, and that's by choice. You wanted a career. So she found her 'family'. She had her children, and she found her man. I don't know why she confessed honestly. IN 2 years you never suspected anything - probably because you were always thinking of your next trip. Sorry, but I'm betting that's true. That was your life - your work. so it was on your mind instead of the family. You say you did all of it - the travel, the pressure, etc. - for your family, but again, before the family existed, you wanted a career, she wanted a family.

 

Admitting you aren't a family man when you have a family is hard. It feels like saying you're a horrible person. I mean, who puts their job in front of their family? It doesn't mean you're a terrible person. It means you don't want the family as much as you think you should. They are there, and you love them, but they aren't what drives you.

 

Do you think she told you to 'fix' things, or did she tell you as a cry for help, hoping you'd back off the job and spend more time at home? Because in spite of everything that is the one thing you aren't willing to do even though you know it's what is needed here.

 

If you're going to reconcile, really think about it, because if you won't be more of a family man then you'll be back here in a few years. Your wife is unhappy and lonely. You did NOT cause her to cheat. She knew the deal and never said (that you've told us) that she vocalized her unhappiness, but her affair screams that she wants a man in her life on a more regular basis. If you can't or won't give her that, then seriously think about letting her go.

 

Sounds weird right? She cheated and you should think about letting her go for her own good? What about you? What about your pain? Well your pain is here and it will be no matter what. If you leave her in pain again, you'll end up with more pain. She'll either cheat or you'll put yourself through hell and she'll tell you she wants a divorce.

 

I feel for you, I really do. No one deserves to be betrayed, especially for as long and as deeply as you have been. BUT, if you want to avoid more pain, you need to really look at your life and see if it can include a happy wife in it, and if so is it the kind of person that your wife is. If she can't be happy with you gone so much, and you won't not be gone so much, perhaps ending it is the only option.

 

 

Well said!!!!! It is about his job and e is the one who deflects. Yes be honest and accept it and address it head on. Don't rationalize it.

 

You ever gone on a cruise and talk to the attendants and people working on the ship and the true sacrifices they make???? They travel and are gone from families for months at a time to put food on the table and provide a better life. You do it because you love our career. Not a terrible thing, but a fact.

 

I am always bothered on these sites and especially on infidelity sections where the cheated upon only vaguely touches on their issues and most respondents over and over repeat the mantra that it is the cheater's fault. Yes they cheated, but if you want to get past it you must both address the issues and see if it is reparable.

 

In this case I don't know, but since it is the person who wrote the OP we respond to, I certainly know the steps he needs to do.

[OJ loved Nicole]

This is rarely true; many BS's need the actual details because what they imagine is probably much more disgusting than the truth. You are entitled to have her answer every question you have. You need to understand that some of the answers might be painful, but she needs to be completely honest and transparent with you.

 

Aaaaand you obviously don't know how to read, or decipher information...

 

I said nothing about her being untruthful, I never said he wasn't entitled to answers. I said "don't seek the truth, don't ask questions". If he wants to ask a million questions about how many different ways she was hammered by the OM or how devious and cunning she really is at telling lies, that's his prerogative. It won't do him any good.

 

She cheated/she banged some other dude/she's a liar << that's all the information he needs to make his decision (to move on or stay together). The exact details are negligible.

[road]

Aaaaand you obviously don't know how to read, or decipher information...

 

I said nothing about her being untruthful, I never said he wasn't entitled to answers. I said "don't seek the truth, don't ask questions". If he wants to ask a million questions about how many different ways she was hammered by the OM or how devious and cunning she really is at telling lies, that's his prerogative. It won't do him any good.

 

She cheated/she banged some other dude/she's a liar << that's all the information he needs to make his decision (to move on or stay together). The exact details are negligible.

 

 

Every BH has different needs as to how much truth the need. It is best to peel away the layers slowly because once an answer is heard it can never be unheard. For some BH they can not stop thinking about what if. So until they hear enough about the affair they can not stop trying to fill in the blanks.

[2sunny]

The fact that she stood there socializing with H and neighbor for two years - pretending he was a family friend that whole time - and knowing she was screwing the neighbor - hence making a mockery of her ah and M is despicable - add to it that she tried turning her guilt onto her H for inconclusive suspicions - and that spells a calculated liar and a thief of two whole years.

 

I'd want to get to the bottom of her motives. Also why she thought it was ok to justify her bad behavior by dreaming up suspicions about the OP.

 

Buy more than that - I'd need to know exactly what his W has changed about her INNER being - and moral compass - before there would be any chance of her thinking she was allowed to call it a marriage again.

 

What she created is a FARCE instead of a marriage. She was calculating - and now I'm left wondering why the guy moved - so IF he hadn't moved - would she still be having the affair?

 

Where is he? Has she communicated with him since he moved? Did HE end it?

 

Don't reward her bad behavior - just take her perks away from her until you have answers that show she's a changed person. She hasn't earned back your trust yet - I think you need more info and evidence of what really happened.

 

I'd suggest polygraph...with specific questions you need answers to.

[2sunny]

It may be useful in a polygraph to find out if she still loves him.

 

Find out what her motive was for staying with you while involved with him. Find out who/why it ended.

 

Find out if she stayed for you or for the kids.

 

Find out if she stayed for your money you provide.

 

Find out if she loves you.

 

Find out if she regrets the affair.

 

Find out if she's sorry she did or sorry she got caught.

 

Find out her intent.

[road]

The fact that she stood there socializing with H and neighbor for two years - pretending he was a family friend that whole time - and knowing she was screwing the neighbor - hence making a mockery of her ah and M is despicable - add to it that she tried turning her guilt onto her H for inconclusive suspicions - and that spells a calculated liar and a thief of two whole years.

 

 

Duh, this is what WS's do. Get off the soap box.

 

 

I'd want to get to the bottom of her motives. Also why she thought it was ok to justify her bad behavior by dreaming up suspicions about the OP.

 

 

Duh, because she wanted to bang the OM. And, what the BS does not know won't hurt them logic.

 

 

Buy more than that - I'd need to know exactly what his W has changed about her INNER being - and moral compass - before there would be any chance of her thinking she was allowed to call it a marriage again.

 

 

No one guarantee that. They only can do what is needed. NC, transparent, no secret passwords, always accountable.

 

 

What she created is a FARCE instead of a marriage. She was calculating - and now I'm left wondering why the guy moved - so IF he hadn't moved - would she still be having the affair?

 

 

Duh, who cares why the OM moved.

 

 

Where is he? Has she communicated with him since he moved? Did HE end it?

 

 

Hello any body there? Who cares where the OM is, or who ended the affair? Nobody that is who. The only important thing is NC.

 

 

Don't reward her bad behavior - just take her perks away from her until you have answers that show she's a changed person. She hasn't earned back your trust yet - I think you need more info and evidence of what really happened.

 

I'd suggest polygraph...with specific questions you need answers to.

 

 

Duh, anybody home? Suggest no, require a polygraph.

[troubadour]

It may be useful in a polygraph to find out if she still loves him.

 

Find out what her motive was for staying with you while involved with him. Find out who/why it ended.

 

Find out if she stayed for you or for the kids.

 

Find out if she stayed for your money you provide.

 

Find out if she loves you.

 

Find out if she regrets the affair.

 

Find out if she's sorry she did or sorry she got caught.

 

Find out her intent.

 

 

2sunny, with no desire to get into any kind of argument with you I would like to politely mention that all of the above questions would be rejected by any "top drawer" polygrapher. Why? Because they aren't "polygraph type" of questions.

 

Polygraph tests can be very reliable when conducted in regard to events that actually took place in the past. Well trained, experienced polygrapher, who can read body language and knows how to word/formulate questions, would be about 90% reliable in such cases.

 

But when we start asking questions the answers to which can be affected by our feelings and/or emotional states.... polygraph tests are completely unreliable. For instance, question like "do you regret having an affair" isn't a polygraph type question becuse it isn't a simple YES or NO questions. If an individual is being polygraphed a few days after the D-day he/she will be likely confused about many things.... his/her feelings for AP, shame and other consequences of affair. Now, asked the same question two, three years after the D-day he/she may give a completely different answer, based on his/her current feelings, despite trying to be perfectly honest the first time.

 

But, for instance, if he/she is asked.... have you ever had a sexual intercourse with such and such? This is a strict YES or NO question. It is about the actual event(s) that did or didn't take place in the past and the answer isn't affected by feelings or emotional states of person who is being polygraphed. He/she may decide to lie about it but he/she knows the answer.

 

Another thing.... a self-respected polygrapher won't allow asking more than three questions. Usually, just one question is recommended.

 

I hope it helps.

[drifter777]

Aaaaand you obviously don't know how to read, or decipher information...

 

I said nothing about her being untruthful, I never said he wasn't entitled to answers. I said "don't seek the truth, don't ask questions". If he wants to ask a million questions about how many different ways she was hammered by the OM or how devious and cunning she really is at telling lies, that's his prerogative. It won't do him any good.

 

She cheated/she banged some other dude/she's a liar << that's all the information he needs to make his decision (to move on or stay together). The exact details are negligible.

Actually, no - I understood you then and now. Your comment in bold, above, is the essence of your position. Do you really think this is always true? Always?

 

I said:

"many BS's need the actual details because what they imagine is probably much more disgusting than the truth."

 

I stand by this. Those BS's who want the truth about details need to be forewarned that it may hurt them more than they think it will, but if they still want to know then the WS need's to comply. For some, holding back these details demonstrates that the WS is not willing to be completely honest and transparent.

[2sunny]

The fact that she stood there socializing with H and neighbor for two years - pretending he was a family friend that whole time - and knowing she was screwing the neighbor - hence making a mockery of her ah and M is despicable - add to it that she tried turning her guilt onto her H for inconclusive suspicions - and that spells a calculated liar and a thief of two whole years.

 

 

Duh, this is what WS's do. Get off the soap box.

 

 

I'd want to get to the bottom of her motives. Also why she thought it was ok to justify her bad behavior by dreaming up suspicions about the OP.

 

 

Duh, because she wanted to bang the OM. And, what the BS does not know won't hurt them logic.

 

 

Buy more than that - I'd need to know exactly what his W has changed about her INNER being - and moral compass - before there would be any chance of her thinking she was allowed to call it a marriage again.

 

 

No one guarantee that. They only can do what is needed. NC, transparent, no secret passwords, always accountable.

 

 

What she created is a FARCE instead of a marriage. She was calculating - and now I'm left wondering why the guy moved - so IF he hadn't moved - would she still be having the affair?

 

 

Duh, who cares why the OM moved.

 

 

Where is he? Has she communicated with him since he moved? Did HE end it?

 

 

Hello any body there? Who cares where the OM is, or who ended the affair? Nobody that is who. The only important thing is NC.

 

 

Don't reward her bad behavior - just take her perks away from her until you have answers that show she's a changed person. She hasn't earned back your trust yet - I think you need more info and evidence of what really happened.

 

I'd suggest polygraph...with specific questions you need answers to.

 

 

Duh, anybody home? Suggest no, require a polygraph.

 

You missed my point because you're only looking at it from one angle.

 

IF the neighbor hadn't moved would it still be an active affair?

 

What caused the move?

 

Did she stay with H because he had money? Did the OM have loads of money too?

 

Did it end when he left or did it linger longer after he moved?

 

Was she good at hiding her emotions/feelings about him moving at that time?

[road]

You missed my point because you're only looking at it from one angle.

 

IF the neighbor hadn't moved would it still be an active affair?

 

What caused the move?

 

Did she stay with H because he had money? Did the OM have loads of money too?

 

Did it end when he left or did it linger longer after he moved?

 

Was she good at hiding her emotions/feelings about him moving at that time?

 

 

I missed nothing.

 

The affair is over. There is NC because the OM moved away. Wondering what if the OM did not move is only exercise in wasting time because that is not there reality. Their reality is that the OM is gone.

 

Money does not matter. Who has or who does not, or even who has more. The affair is dead. They are working towards recovery.

 

Pointless how WW took the OM moving away. WW's do not always show grief over the affair ending. Many do. Loss of a relationship usually involves grief. Stop spinning your wheels and do something constructive.

[2sunny]

You're requesting rug sweeping? Seems so - as he doesn't have all her info? Maybe - maybe not.

[road]

You're requesting rug sweeping? Seems so - as he doesn't have all her info? Maybe - maybe not.

 

 

Advocate rug sweeping? No. There needs to be a purpose to the questions though.