Affairs marriages successful?

[jlola]

I have seen a few marriages begin as affairs. My sister is one. I have had conversation with 2 others. All divorced now.One said "never marry your affair partner" the other said "nothing good comes from an affair, I really only knew little bits of her till we got married". I used to tell my mother to let my father go so his "affair partners" could get to see the real him. Not the romantic knight in shining armor,SUPERdad with bad wife . Let them get him 24/7 for six months or so and they would see reality!

 

Second marriages tend to have a higher divorce rate. Probably because the common denominator is an emotionally immature person.

 

This from Dr. Harley.

Excerpt below:

 

-------

 

I've read through your original question and the responses you've received, and almost to a responder, they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.

 

While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.

 

I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.

 

I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.

 

There are so many obstacles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.

 

But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.

It will affect the welfare of their children, the commitment is broken.

 

The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because it the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.

 

While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice. But if you want to know how you can be the 1% that thrives in spite of the obsticles you face, my advice is that you both learn to follow the POJA with every decision you make, including those with the children. If those decisions are made with mutual care, you may be able to figure out how to make the rest of your relationship work.

[Spark1111]

If I think of those couples I know IRL who had an affair and went on to live happily ever after with their AP, I would agree with Dr. Harley that 3 percent of all affairs are true exit affairs and one out of the three are truly happy long-term.

 

I also work with a demographic of 25-40 year old and MANY are on their second and third marriages., so obviously Spouse 2 was NOT the cure all for Spouse1.

 

A true exit affair is usually characterized by having a marriage so dead in the water that family and friends cheer you on to know it's over and warmly embrace your new partner as a healthier happy choice for you.

 

The relationship is secret for a short time, maybe months, and a plan to divorce is put in place quickly. Your BS is informed.

 

I asked one friend who is happily remarried with two children if, while in his first marriage, he didn't know what love could be?

 

he looked at me incredulously and said, LOVE? I didn't know what NORMAL could be!

 

So to me, that sums it up pretty well.

[2sure]

I was reading on another forum that is only for OW and there was an entire thread dedicated for OW to give relationship updates over the years. Many affairs do end up with the married person divorced.

 

There were more than a few that ended up with their AP initially or even married . More than I would have thought from reading here. But of them, they were either not together or were in a relationship but floundering. They were either dealing with infidelity or paranoid about it.

 

I was surprised there seemed to be no variety in their stories. But again, posting in forums like that don't draw the happy.

[ChooseTruth]

I hate to do this, as a BS who is pretty pissed. Buuuut my father married his affair partner. They(dad and stepmom) were married for just shy of 25 years I think. They divorced after a particularly bad argument where she physically attacked him.

 

No idea about the general public other than what I hear from sources like Harley...but yeah that's the biggest example I have IRL. Oh wait, no. My uncle also divorced and married his affair partner more recently. They divorced very quickly. I don't think they made it a year. My cousins (his children) were VERY hostile. I remember my oldest cousin referred to her new stepmother as "that gold digging whore". How do you really feel cuz??

Edited October 4, 2013 by ChooseTruth

[jlola]

I tend to doubt his figures are representative of all 'affairages'.

 

For one thing, he sees people who come to him in need of therapy. Mainly the couples who have significant issues, less so the ones who want to prevent issues down the road.

 

So it's a biased sample.

 

i often like to see where the relationship began when I read about stars divorcing. I know they re more narcissistic than regular folks. but just always curious.

 

Jlo and Mark Anthony, affair(he divorced wife right after baby was born to marry her)

 

Jlo and Ben Affleck (she was married to Chris Judd who she left for Ben)

 

Tony Hawk(why were all his wives shocked to find out he was leaving for affair partner. After all, he did that in each marriage, but they are special)

 

Eva Longoria (stole Tony Parker from then fiance, shocked he cheated on her, so sad!)

 

Gabrielle Union and Dwayne Wade affair,(yup, rumor is he cheats on her too)

 

 

Sylvester Stallone, leaving wife for Briggitte Nielsen. She cheated on him with EVERYONE!!! She then began an affair with Mark Gastineau who left his wife, married Briggitte and then she dumped him when he was ill.

 

Rielle Hunter and John Edwards( why this man went slumming for such a low class woman, I ill never understand)

 

Liz taylor and every affair partner she married.

 

Chris Everette and Andy Mill(Cheated on Mill and married Greg Orman). Buttttt... Mill was cheating on his then wife with Chris. then Oman cheated on Chris.

There are many more, but I cannot think right no. Sure some are successful. Paul Newman and JoAnne Woodward come to mind.But few.

 

 

 

I see Tori Spelling,Leann Rhimes, Miranda Lambert all looking a bit anxious their man may cheat on them too. Wonder why? Probably because they know what he is capable of.

[Guy Mann]

Admittedly, I had an affair with my now-wife that ended in her getting divorced. We've now been together since August.

 

Of 1994.

[jlola]

Admittedly, I had an affair with my now-wife that ended in her getting divorced. We've now been together since August.

 

Of 1994.

 

Welcome to the forum. I am not saying some cannot be as successful as yours. I am saying from the ones I have seen, not many are. But this is from my own personal demographics,family and friends. Others may vary.

[RightThere]

OP, the statistics for affair marriages are few, skewed and unreliable.

 

If someone can show me a decent study, I'll thank them for it.

 

There are lots of them. It took me 5 seconds to find some using Google. Real studies, not just references to other studies.

 

My guess is that you wouldn't believe the results of the study anyways. You have a bit of a bias to believe your relationship didn't fail because it was born out of an affair.

[ladydesigner]

My own Mother and Father are an A marriage. They quickly exited their M's for each other. My Mom went to cheat on my Dad three more times, but they are still together. It isn't the best M, but they still love each other and I'm glad they are my parents. They have been married 40 years this year!

 

My cousin cheated on his wife with a neighbor and then left and M'd the neighbor. Their M lasted 2 years.

 

My uncle had 3 marriages. The first ended with his wife cheating, his 2nd M ended with him cheating and his 3rd M was to the OW he was with during his 2nd M. They were together until he passed.

[janedoe67]

I would think in order for an affair marriage to work, both parties would have to eventually do some self-inventory and address some things.

[HopingAgain]

My current marriage started as an affair. I was the WS in the scenario. Most of what the article Jlola posted is spot on for our situation. We have encountered pretty much ALL of the obstacles that anyone could reasonably expect to come from an affair marriage. These include:

 

Lack of trust and suspicion: We have always had trust issues, right from the beginning it seems. He didn't fully trust me because I was the WS in my former marriage. He always had some fear and insecurity that I could deceive him and cheat as a means to cope if our marriage encountered stress or hard times or if I was displeased that I would step out on him instead of communicating. Ironically, this climate in our relationship contributed to his own infidelity.

 

Guilt and Resentment: There have been times where we both admitedly have felt guilt for our behavior and how we deceived my Husband (he also knew him) and how the kids and the rest of our families have been affected and impacted from the fallout of our affair AND its aftermath...which leads me to the next area of contention...

 

Disapproval of Relationship and Cold Shoulder Treatment from Family: Because of the nature of our relationship in starting out as an affair, and because most of our friends and family knew how we started out, we were met with lots of disdain and aloof behavior from those whose opinions REALLY mattered to us. This is not even including the impact on the children.

 

Impact on the kids: Divorce is hell on kids even in the best circumstances, but when it comes out that the divorce is a result of an affair, it kicks the hell up a whole new level for the kids. Their loyalty is divided. They want to support their parent who was the Betrayed Spouse and even though they still love the Wayward Parent, they DO feel resentment, anger, and disappointment. They often will absolutely despise the affair partner turned stepparent in this scenario. My husband and I have been together 10 years, married 4, and my children from my first marriage are just NOW really starting to love and accept my husband as a parental figure and treat him with the according amount of respect and consideration.

 

The second marriage Quandary: The issue with being married more than once as a result of divorce, is that once you get through a divorce, you KNOW it is easier and less complicated the second time around because you already know what to expect. There is also an issue of jumping from the frying pan into the fire once you go straight from a divorce into another long term relationship and eventually marrying your affair spouse. It is very easy not to take the time to work on your own issues that contribuited to infidelity in the first place, and not doing any soul searching basically just leads to having the same type of marriage you just left, only with a new partner. This was another area for us that contributed to a breakdown...not doing the work needed after transitioning from an affair relationship to a traditional one. If you have demonstrated to yourself and to eachother that trust, loyalty, honest communication are not traits to be valued by participating in an affair than it will blow up in your face later down the line when it comes back around in the new relationship.

 

All in all, my husband and I have faced pretty much every issue that usually breaks down a relationship born of an affair over the long term. We've been married 4 years and if we had decided to call it quits earlier this year after his infidelity we would have fit neatly into that "Divorced within 5 years" statistic about affair marriages. It is more work to resolve these issues that we had avoided and endured for years than many people would even consider entertaining doing. But we are committed to rebuilding a healthy marriage based on REAL trust, transparency, open communication, and dealing with any issues before they fester and blow up in our faces. It is not for the fainthearted, and I truly believe that because of all the things aforementioned that most affair relationships don't work over the long term. Most who are in affairs have issues they are not willing to address and work on long enough to overcome and create a healthy more sustainable relationship.

[HopingAgain]

I would think in order for an affair marriage to work, both parties would have to eventually do some self-inventory and address some things.

 

This is the honest to God truth. Anything else is just a revolving door leading right back into failure.

[HighheelsAries]

Depends on what you read but its usually less than 25% or as little as 10% of affair marriages last. So odds are stacked against you. Marriage is supposed to be about love, trust, commitment, etc. Affairs are about deceit, betrayal, dishonesty. How can that which brought the affair partners together be the basis of marriage. That most of their marriages fail is rightful karma. No matter how you wrap it up or want to justify it, people who knowingly engage in extra marital affairs are the scum of the earth.

[lollipopspot]

No matter how you wrap it up or want to justify it, people who knowingly engage in extra marital affairs are the scum of the earth.

 

That's sure a lot of people. This says that 70% of men and 50-60% of women cheat on their partners

Cheating Statistics: Do Men Cheat More Than Women? | Fox News Magazine

[ClemsonTigers]

I have seen a few marriages begin as affairs. My sister is one. I have had conversation with 2 others. All divorced now.One said "never marry your affair partner" the other said "nothing good comes from an affair, I really only knew little bits of her till we got married". I used to tell my mother to let my father go so his "affair partners" could get to see the real him. Not the romantic knight in shining armor,SUPERdad with bad wife . Let them get him 24/7 for six months or so and they would see reality!

 

Second marriages tend to have a higher divorce rate. Probably because the common denominator is an emotionally immature person.

 

This from Dr. Harley.

Excerpt below:

 

-------

 

I've read through your original question and the responses you've received, and almost to a responder, they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.

 

While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.

 

I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.

 

I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.

 

There are so many obstacles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.

 

But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.

It will affect the welfare of their children, the commitment is broken.

 

The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because it the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.

 

While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice. But if you want to know how you can be the 1% that thrives in spite of the obsticles you face, my advice is that you both learn to follow the POJA with every decision you make, including those with the children. If those decisions are made with mutual care, you may be able to figure out how to make the rest of your relationship work.

 

 

That was a great post. I was going to ask you where you found this. I looked over Harley articles to find the rest of it but didn't see anything. I had to do a simple google search to discover he posted this a lot on the forums over there. In my search I ended up listening to a radio show clip someone linked on a thread which summed up my own experiences and inexplicable inability to assist "affairages" myself. I also think the clip might help MacBeth come to terms a bit with his own struggles. MacBeth seems hung up on the research and statistics but if he came to understand the 'why affair marriages are usually destined to fail' maybe he can accept that the limited research and statistics that are available as quite accurate.

 

Harley Radio clip on trust in an affairage

[ClemsonTigers]

Most of them are clinical studies such as Harley's and Pittman's. Those are biased samples, as I stated above. People who are in therapy don't represent the general population.

 

 

My professional experiences and opinions concur with the conclusions stated by Dr. Harley and Frank Pittman^ and include not only people that sought marital therapy to help their affair based marriage but also the extremely troubled children of many couples that apparently beat the odds, stayed together despite being miserable and apparently never sought any therapy. Sure other couples have troubled children too, but when you practice long enough and delve down deep into these teenager's problems trends become apparent.

 

I am going to be changing my practice methods based upon these discussions. Just a fascinating conversation here this week. Thank you.

 

 

 

^Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.

[Lisanne]

ClemsonTigers, if you are a professional, can you give some advice on how to make these marriages work? My sister had an affair and ended up marrying the guy. We were not happy about it but have tried to be supportive for the sake of her kids. The problem is that they fight so much and so intensely. My sister and her first husband never had fights like this. Her husband's children from his previous marriage hate my sister and will have nothing to do with her. We are worried about her kids because they see all this fighting. Will her kids grow up thinking that cheating is a good option? That is a big concern of my parents.

[lollipopspot]

^Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.

 

Well, one reason for a high divorce rate is that by definition they are 2nd or 3rd marriages. Those statistics are worse than for 1st marriages

The divorce rate for first marriages -- meaning a marriage in which neither person has been married before -- is reportedly between 40 and 50%. But for second marriages, in which at least one of the spouses has been married once before, the rate jumps to between 60 and 67%. And for third marriages (at least one of the spouses has been married twice before), it's a whopping 70-73%.

GalTime: Second (And Third) Marriages: Destined for Divorce?

 

I'm not convinced that the issues from a marriage that starts from an affair are so drastically much more overwhelming than those from most any other 2nd or 3rd marriage. It's hard for people to stay married, period. It's just one more thing among many that can make it difficult.

[Still-I-Rise]

When my husband recently abandoned us his mother cried (she doesn't usually cry) and asked him how could he do this to his children when he remembers what her affair did to their family and friends and how he didn't speak to her for years.

 

Her second husband was a little younger and a good friend of the family (kind of a head-pastor in their congregation). The man was becoming my ex's mentor - he and his wife did not have children for religious reasons. They were planning to become missionaries.

 

Anyway, my MIL got involved with the MM. His wife found out because they had been married forever (as virgins) and she suddenly had herpes.

 

Long story short, my MIL and the MM ran away together and later got married. It was disastrous and he continued cheating. She begged him to stop and even tried to offer him a compromise.

 

My MIL was a very attractive woman and she liked flirting with men and making women despise her (my ex hated that about her). She was devastated the MM kept cheating because she was convinced she was more beatiful than his wife and his fidelity should have been a no brainer.

 

When he left he tried to destroy her financially and I was a constant listening ear during the process because her two children refused to be there for her.

 

Her third husband knew her second husband and she sought him out because she thought it would make the second husband jealous. It didn't.

 

She lured him from a woman he'd dated for two years (both older, widowed, and a nice fit). It had another devastating impact on her son.

 

She took the man's money (and ran through it quickly) and is waiting for him to die. He has parkinson's disease. She would treat him terribly.

 

But I remember she told me he once said 'he always wanted to know what a man had to do to get a woman like her.'

 

He broke off an important relationship with another woman (because she told him to do so) and disowned his step-children (she told him to do that too and he did so). It was sad to witness.

 

My children would often say they wanted to write the man letters begging him to seek freedom.

 

My soon to be ex always said he got just what he deserved.

[Lisanne]

 

I'm not convinced that the issues from a marriage that starts from an affair are so drastically much more overwhelming than those from most any other 2nd or 3rd marriage. It's hard for people to stay married, period. It's just one more thing among many that can make it difficult.

 

I wonder if the trust problems make these marriages much harder? Sure, trust can be a problem in any marriage, but it sure seems to be much worse here. Their worst fights are about their suspicions. My sister has caught him flirting with women many times and I think my sister does this too. It is obvious she does not trust him out of her sight!

 

My sister gets so upset when his children insist that she not come on their visits. She believes he should put his foot down but he won't do it. I have even heard her call him a wimp. She blames their hatred on his ex-wife but I don't believe it. You can't force a kid to hate like that. It puts her H in a position where he feels like he has to choose between his own children and my sister.

[lollipopspot]

Well, if you know the partner has ever cheated before (even if it wasn't with you) - what I just quoted said that 70% of men and 50-60% of women cheat on their partners - then you know that they've done this before with their partners, and that itself could insert distrust into the marriage. Does it matter that the cheating was with the new spouse, or just if they have cheated previously?

[Lisanne]

Look at racism. It is rarely the result of the child directly experiencing another ethnic group hating them but rather created by the parents who raise them in the hateful enviroment.

 

That's a good point, coolit. I suspect in this case, the kids are not happy about my sister's role in the breakdown of their family. It doesn't help her situation when she tries to blame their mother.

[Got it]

I gave up a long time ago paying any attention to stats. I am not a stat, I am me. I heed the warnings and obstacles that our relationship may present, being from an affair, having children that are melding into a new relationship, etc. and go from there. We have taken a large number of aspects that reconciling spouse use and have implemented them into our relationship.

 

I can't say how are story is going to be written and I have stopped trying to predict the future. All I can do is make the most out of the Present. We invest in Today and hope for the best. We recognized the additional stresses that our relationship is dealing with and it is about one foot in front of the other. I recognize that we are far from perfect people, I can say that the affair, and the outcome of it, has humbled and matured me far more than anything else. I am no longer arrogant enough to rest on any laurels and believe that solutions and needs fulfilled with be handed to me on a silver platter.

 

I am in it for the long haul where ever this takes me. No matter how long it lasts, I have loved every minute of this man. He drives me bonkers, he pisses me off to no end, and we have opposing philosophies at times, but he still makes me smile just looking at him.

 

I really can't say I have an overwhelming fear of cheating nor does he seem to. I think we are obviously much more sensitive to it and more importantly to the slippery slope that can easily be crossed so we have proactively taken steps to stop that. It isn't that we feel that we are these amazing soul mates, but we do believe we mesh well together, we communicate well together, and we are going to give it our best go.

 

I am sitting here typing and looking at him sleeping in the bed next to me, our cat curled up around him. I have no better defense or skills then my heart melting just looking at his sleeping face. Who knows. I just know that we are both committed, and have shown, that we are ready to face things utilizing whatever resources needed. We started therapy at day one almost and have taken things slow to not rush and make a wrong move.

 

I can't change the past, the best I can do is move forward. But I will be more than happy to continue updating here and if we divorce be ready for lots of "I told you so"!

[cocorico]

This from Dr. Harley.

Excerpt below:

 

-------

 

I've read through your original question and the responses you've received, and almost to a responder, they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.

 

While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.

 

I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.

 

I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.

 

There are so many obstacles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.

 

But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.

It will affect the welfare of their children, the commitment is broken.

 

The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because it the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.

 

While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice. But if you want to know how you can be the 1% that thrives in spite of the obsticles you face, my advice is that you both learn to follow the POJA with every decision you make, including those with the children. If those decisions are made with mutual care, you may be able to figure out how to make the rest of your relationship work.

 

I've no idea who Dr Harley is or what his qualifications are to warrant my taking him seriously, but the quote above (no source given, so I can't judge its status) seems to be anecdote based on his personal exposure to a few couples he has had personal dealings with. Which, presumably, live in proximity to where he lives / works, and so present a skewed sample. There is absolutely no reason why anything he says about them should apply to me, since I have nothing in common with them:

 

* they are consulting him about their R because they are unhappy. We are not unhappy, we have no problems in our R.

 

* his "policy of joint agreement" sounds. Rey Oprah. We are adults. We don't agree on everything because we are both string minded, independent thinkers. But we do communicate well, and we are both rational and reasonable. We discuss things and plan things together. We know which things are important enough *to us* that we need to seek agreement on, and which things matter less and can tolerate compromise or even letting it go. If we spent time trying to agree on everything - which TV programmes to record, which movies to rent, which meals to cook - we'd waste an awful lot of time we could spend enjoying the things we do enjoy together, or discussing the important things that warrant our attention.

 

* Ive no idea what his "policy of radical honesty" is so can't judge whether or not we observe that, but I certainly disagree with his assumption that because my H did not tell his xW immediately about our R, that our R is based on lies or dishonesty. We have always been honest with each other.

 

* "Blending families" has not been an issue for us. My kids were grown when we moved in together, and when they visited, they got on well with his. His are now grown, too. He and I have very similar values and views on child rearing - very different to his xW - and so there has never really been anything to disagree about. Though, I tend to be more chilled about parenting than he is and will tend to talk him down sometimes when he feels outraged by some stupid thing his kids have done, reminding him that they're still young adults and are learning, and reminding him that they were exposed to their mother's dubious values for years and can't be expected to have erased all of those lessons overnight. And extended families have been even easier. It just feels as if we've always been family.

 

I realise this is not the situation for everyone, and that some people have more challenges to face than others. Our challenges have all been external, and have helped us to trust each other as a team. We have never had reason to doubt each other, and show each other in very concrete ways all the time where we stand on things.

 

We've both seen how bad Rs can get, and we both know how lucky we are to be together, and value and cherish our R and give it the attention it deserves. That, more than how many Rs we've had before, is what shapes the degree of success our R will have. It's not about what went before, it's about what you learn from it and how you choose to act henceforth.

[Lisanne]

Thanks for that anecdote, cocorico. I will show it to my sister. I really hope she can make something of this for the sake of her children. Apparently, her husband's teenage daughter tape recorded my sister in a tirade against her mother. (She and Jim were fighting about the ex-wife in the bathroom) Because of this, his daughters refuse to come back to their house or have anything to do with my sister. He now has to visit his daughters over at his ex-wife's house if he wants to see them. Since my sister doesn't trust him, this adds fuel to the fire.

 

I certainly disagree with his assumption that because my H did not tell his xW immediately about our R, that our R is based on lies or dishonesty. We have always been honest with each other.

 

That is great that you are honest with each other. My sister saw how much he lied and lied to his wife and his daughters so she knows how dishonest he can be. I have often thought that is what fuels her distrust.