Incompatibility, Inconsideration or Playing the Devil's Advocate??

[visitorinmyownhome]

My partner and I are living together. I will cut to the chase. It's been a year. We were seeing each other for a few years before we finally moved-in together but to be honest we moved-in together under circumstances of duress. To my heartbreak, maybe both our heartbreak, our living habits clashed almost immediately upon moving in together.

 

Some of these habits are ones that due to my love for him, I was willing to overlook. Here are some examples:

 

<li>I am creative, like alot of style in my home furnishings and accessories while he is simple and basically would rather have the place look like an office with very neutral colors. </li>

 

<li>I love exotic foods, trying new things and cooking gourmet meals. I'm very epicurean in nature while he is more of a hormel chili, kraft mac n cheese, frozen chimichanga sort of guy.</li>

 

But there are certain things that are starting to rip me apart inside. Things that <i>should</i> be petty but are becoming serious serious issues between he and I.

 

A main one is lights. He refuses to turn off the lights at night. He says he needs to fall asleep with the lights on and the tv blaring and that I am a whining bitch and a freak for saying the lights interfere in the quality of my rest. He says if I was " a normal" person that I would close my eyes and not even see the lights. I have become so hurt that he can't just respect my right to sleep that I tell him he is the freak for not being considerate enough to turn off the lights when I've mentioned it over and over. Last night I went ballistic on him and he told me he was over me complaining over petty things like lights and that I if I can't deal with him needing the lights off I could "**** off."

 

<b>Please comment, any and all of you.....</b>

 

One more scenario to keep in mind. Similiarly he has a pet peeve he once brought to my attention about the shower. He likes for the shower knob to be turned off so that when the next person goes to shower they don't get water shot in the face. I screwed up a few times but you can bet that after he asked, I made it a point to turn off the shower knob everytime to be courteous to him. Where is the reciprocity? Does the lack of it on his part indicate he doesn't love me??

[emobat]

Little things are extremely important in a living together situation.

 

Those little things will drive you mad! It sounds like you tried to overlook things for a while, and then when confronted about it, got told off. Ask your partner if he's serious, that he would rather have you leave then by making a gesture to turn off the lights. I know how people fall asleep is a big issue, but ... I think it can't get any better if you're the one bending on this and you're not getting sleep because of it.

 

But I'm probably not the right one to talk to about the sleeping business though. I like to have a steady white noise to fall asleep to, while my wife would rather have the TV on where she can hear the program, even if she's not watching. It brought me to the couch the other night. I used to just turn it off when I came in (I always came in after she was asleep for that reason), but after we had our child, it had stayed on constantly. For either light, or because we were up all the time... and now it's still on. So now I just turn down the volume and turn my white noise air purifier up.

 

I guess that's a compromise way. Maybe there's a compromise you can try.

[Ladyjane14]

Little things that bug you are your problems. What bugs him is his problem. If each person addresses their own problems.........

 

If the lights are bothering you, sleep in a different room. If he is bothered by you not sleeping with him, then he'll have to adjust to accomodate you, because then he's the one with a problem to solve.

 

If he doesn't like your cooking, cook what you like. He can fend for himself, or do his own cooking. Or, as a gesture of love, you might go ahead and open him up a can of chili.

 

The small day-to-day problems are born of expectations being unmet. The solution is to have LESS expectations. If you're both courteous and both responsible for solving your own little problems, then those expectations will fall away.

 

[izzybelle]

ladyjane,

you make some good points and i agree that in most cases our expectations of our partners may be too high. i think many would love to have someone who did evertything exactly the way we wanted all the time. but..i think most of us often realize that that is totally unrealistic and not fair to expect someone to turn into some ideal. sometimes i think we even learn to think that some of those "bad little habits" are what makes that person endearing.

 

all that said, there are a few problems that can ultimately arise from these "little things", and i've been there. when one person seems to be the one who's always adjusting, always compromising, always giving in, those little things add up and become a major source of frustration. in addition, if one person ends up being expected to make these compromises over and over again, eventually that person can begin to feel like they've lost themselves somewhere. the fact that you always give in can begin to make you feel like you must be wrong about everything. it can damage self-esteem and really destroy a relationship. i know i'm talking about extreme cases, but those little things can really become the underlying aggrevations of a much, much bigger problem. and there are also times when these, what seem like inconsiderate, acts almost seem hurtful in nature. and this is just one example. my ex loves spicy food, i hate it. for years i ate it anyway and as much as i could tried to get used to it, enjoy it, and at the beginning, my requests for something mild on occassion were met. over time, it very much became, if he was cooking that was the way it was going to be. and since i hate to cook, i gave in. and then i had major surgery and as a result could no longer tolerate eating the spicy food, it caused me incredible amounts of pain that no medicines could even take the edge off. i requested, nicely at first, to please be accomodating. but, he was cooking and if i didn't like it or couldn't eat it, that was my problem. and it was. and their were many meals when he and my kids would be eating what he'd cooked and i'd be eating something else. the fact that, even under those circumstances, he was unwilling to be accomodating told me a lot about who he was as a person. the issue went much deeper than the fact that we didn't agree on food. and on a more amusing note... don't know how many of you have gone into a dark bathroom in the middle of the night and fallen in the toilet because the seat was up! ok... so that's one of those things that you learn to deal with and look past, but when stupid things like that are added onto an already troubled marriage they just always feel like they add insult to injury.

 

so yes, we all have those little, or not so little, things that we do that annoy others and our pet peeves to go with them. but it does require compromise from BOTH people.

[Ladyjane14]

my ex loves spicy food, i hate it. for years i ate it anyway and as much as i could tried to get used to it, enjoy it, and at the beginning, my requests for something mild on occassion were met. over time, it very much became, if he was cooking that was the way it was going to be. and since i hate to cook, i gave in. and then i had major surgery and as a result could no longer tolerate eating the spicy food, it caused me incredible amounts of pain that no medicines could even take the edge off. i requested, nicely at first, to please be accomodating. but, he was cooking and if i didn't like it or couldn't eat it, that was my problem. and it was. and their were many meals when he and my kids would be eating what he'd cooked and i'd be eating something else. the fact that, even under those circumstances, he was unwilling to be accomodating told me a lot about who he was as a person. the issue went much deeper than the fact that we didn't agree on food.

 

This is a great example, Izzy. Clearly, your ex was inconsiderate to you in a habitual way. You asked him repeatedly for consideration, he ignored your requests. There was a "payoff" in the behavior.... He could irritate you anytime at whim. He was able to weaponize your expectations.

 

You could have taken the "weapon" out of his hands in this particular situation by not allowing the behavior to affect you. That's not the same as acting like it doesn't affect you. It's dropping the expectation that he should accomodate you. It's taking personal responsibility for your own comfort.

 

As you know, when you live with someone, there will always be contentious moments, times when the relationship becomes bitter or adversarial, even if only briefly. When you allow your expectations to become pet peeves, you're putting a weapon into your partner's hands.

 

I've got a terrific teenage niece. But I tease her quite a bit, because I get such an over-the-top reaction from her. I tell her, "you can't go around with such a long and dangly chain, and expect that people won't yank it from time to time."

 

So, in the end, the best bet is not to let your chain dangle!

 

I've had great success with this in the past few months. I'm almost never mad at my husband anymore, because I take care of my own needs better. And when I'm disappointed about something, I take the time to ponder on what my personal responsibility is in the scenario........BEFORE I lose my temper.

 

I wish I'd discovered this YEARS AGO! (It's just too bad I can't explain it better. )

[izzybelle]

ladyjane,

i think i understand what you mean but i'm not sure. i know that by refusing to let him get to me is takes the power back, that's how i've learned to deal with him since the divorce. he can push as many buttons as he likes and it kills him that i just stay calm now. of course the nice thing now is that i can communicate with him via email!!!

so if that's sort of what you mean then yes, you're right it can work and sometimes does. but it's not all that easy, in fact it's dang difficult at times and it doesn't always work that way. being removed from the situation and able to walk away to my own space has made that possible. and as for the food, yeah, i gave up and stopped making a fuss about it and just ate what i wanted. didn't change his behavior one bit. he still continued to do as he pleased and so did i. now we do as we please in separate houses. so yes, i stopped giving him the reaction he wanted but it didn't change what he was doing not on that particular issue. he cooked his food, i made mine and that was that. in other words i don't think he was always being inconsiderate to get a rise out of me, he was just always inconsiderate because he's selfish. and sometimes, i don't even know that he recognizes the behavior, that's the way he see the world so that's the way it is. and yes, i understand the strategies that you're talking about but somehow all of that seems more like strategies i'd use in counseling others or dealing with my kids, not in working on a marriage. somehow i feel if i have to start taking emotional "weapons" back and continually lowering my expectations of his behavior and becoming responsible for my own personal comfort while he continues to only be responsible for his....what would i need a husband for? to me that just sounds like two people who are roomates. then there's something else very, very wrong there! and there was and i divorced him!

but hey, he can be inconsiderate all he wants now and i don't have to deal with it. unfortunately some people who are like that to their spouses also end up behaving that way to their kids. it's sad.... and i watch my kids struggle with it every time they're with me.

[Debster]

I have a question - if you guys were together for a few years earlier - how come you never found out earlier about his need to sleep with the lights on? How come you could deal with it then, but not now - or vice versa if he did without the lights on?

[visitorinmyownhome]

Originally posted by Debster

I have a question - if you guys were together for a few years earlier - how come you never found out earlier about his need to sleep with the lights on? How come you could deal with it then, but not now - or vice versa if he did without the lights on?

 

Debster, I'll address your question first: the reason I never knew how he was about the lights is because I was never really able to visit him at his previous home. In the 2 years prior to our moving-in together, I can count the times we spent the night together at his house on one hand. I also personally believe that he has been disregarding my requests to turn off the lights for deeper reasons or in rebellion, as a power conflict and this is the part that is hurting me most.

[visitorinmyownhome]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

Little things that bug you are your problems. What bugs him is his problem. If each person addresses their own problems.........

 

He says this same thing, Ladyjane, but in a tone that comes-off callous, uncaring. So my question to you then: is my need for reciprocity, expecting too much?"

 

I included the other shower knob example for a reason. The reason was that my initial choice and inclination was to cooperate with no second thought or hesitation while his is to verbally and emotionally abuse me into thinking I am a freak for wanting the light out.

 

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

If the lights are bothering you, sleep in a different room. If he is bothered by you not sleeping with him, then he'll have to adjust to accomodate you, because then he's the one with a problem to solve.

 

This somehow makes sense in theory but his retort to me the night I went ballistic on him? "F YOU then!! Sleep on the Floor."

 

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

The small day-to-day problems are born of expectations being unmet. The solution is to have LESS expectations. If you're both courteous and both responsible for solving your own little problems, then those expectations will fall away.

 

If it IS as easy as this I pray that I can really shed my many expectations and he his but somehow I feel in our circumstances there is some serious dysfunction going on and the simplicity of this advise can't apply as much as I want it to.

[visitorinmyownhome]

Originally posted by izzybelle

 

.... when one person seems to be the one who's always adjusting, always compromising, always giving in, those little things add up and become a major source of frustration. in addition, if one person ends up being expected to make these compromises over and over again, eventually that person can begin to feel like they've lost themselves somewhere. the fact that you always give in can begin to make you feel like you must be wrong about everything. it can damage self-esteem and really destroy a relationship.

 

If it wasn't obvious from my first post this is where we are at in my relationship. I do feel like I was always compromising. And it is ripping me apart that every request I make toward him he has, weaponized as ladyjane puts it.

 

Originally posted by ladyjane

There was a "payoff" in the behavior.... He could irritate you anytime at whim.

 

You could have taken the "weapon" out of his hands in this particular situation by not allowing the behavior to affect you. That's not the same as acting like it doesn't affect you. It's dropping the expectation that he should accomodate you. It's taking personal responsibility for your own comfort.

 

As you know, when you live with someone, there will always be contentious moments, times when the relationship becomes bitter or adversarial, even if only briefly. When you allow your expectations to become pet peeves, you're putting a weapon into your partner's hands.

 

The point for me, though, ladyjane, is WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD A MAN THAT SUPPOSEDLY LOVES YOU WEAPONIZE YOUR PET PEEVES. It's like what izzybell then again says later about "that not seeming like a marriage." It's very hurtful because I AM WILLING TO COMPROMISE BUT HE WEAPONZIZES MY PAIN

 

I wish so much I could apply what you say and make it work, but really what I want to know then is WHY he would do that. Why find reward or "payoff" in irritating me?? So is this to say I am expecting too much in hoping he loves me enough NOT to want to irritate me? I guess so, eh?

[Ladyjane14]

but really what I want to know then is WHY he would do that. Why find reward or "payoff" in irritating me?? So is this to say I am expecting too much in hoping he loves me enough NOT to want to irritate me?

 

In the immortal words of Tina Turner........"What's love got to do with it?"

 

His words and his actions are hostile. Hostility is born of anger. Hence, he's angry with you. Or frustrated, or threatened, etc.

 

Could be that he's not good in a confrontation. Maybe you're better at confrontation than he is. I know in my houshold, I'm the best in an arguement. I stay calm and unruffled for the most part. I'm logical and methodical. HE CANNOT WIN! And he knows that going in. His reaction?....'a good offence makes the best defence'.

 

At that point he's loud, says hideous, non-sensical things that he doesn't even mean, and then he pouts. It ain't pretty.

 

Now, I can't debate with you that some people are just a*holes no matter what you do. Could be that your mate has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and you're better off without him. But is he selfish with everyone else, or just you? Because if it's just you then it's more likely that he has some kind of unresolved issue that pertains to just you.

 

I believe that even in the best, most loving relationships there are contentious moments in which you're partner will seize upon the opportunity to 'get your goat'. But you can't allow that to become more than what it is, because if you do, you won't be able to stay together for the long haul.

 

The best part of limiting your expectations to the biggies, like fidelity, fiscal responsibility, honesty, etc. is that the small things that you do for one another become gifts, small tokens of love and comfort.

 

It allows you to become demonstrative in showing your love.

 

EXAMPLE: I usually drive my husband's car on the weekend. It maneuvers better than mine. Every Friday, when he brings it home, there's no gas in it. OMG! That used to p*ss me off! Then, awhile back I got to thinking about it, and I realized that it's not his job to put gas in a car that I'm going to drive. I'm a grown woman for pete's sake...I CAN PUMP MY OWN GAS!

 

So, here are my 'personal responsibility' choices:

 

(1) I can take my own car.

(2) I can use his, and NOT put more gas in it.

(3) I can put gas in and be angry that I had to do it.

(4) I can put the gas in and do it in such a way as it becomes a gift.

 

When I select the fourth option, I find that I'm like a kid at Christmas who can't wait for my special gift to be discovered. Weird, huh? But on Monday, when he gets in his car to go to work, it's like the petrol fairy bestowed her graces upon him and life is good.

 

What I found out next is that most often he would reciprocate, finding some stupid little something that he could do to please me, like loading the dishwasher.......because I wasn't expecting it.

 

I don't know if that helps you at all. I imagine your best bet is to try to get to the heart of the hostility, and then to go from there.

 

Good luck.

[visitorinmyownhome]

Originally posted by Ladyjane14

In the immortal words of Tina Turner........"What's love got to do with it?"

 

His words and his actions are hostile. Hostility is born of anger. Hence, he's angry with you. Or frustrated, or threatened, etc.

 

Could be that he's not good in a confrontation. Maybe you're better at confrontation than he is. I know in my houshold, I'm the best in an arguement. I stay calm and unruffled for the most part. I'm logical and methodical. HE CANNOT WIN! And he knows that going in. His reaction?....'a good offence makes the best defence'.

 

At that point he's loud, says hideous, non-sensical things that he doesn't even mean, and then he pouts. It ain't pretty.

 

Now, I can't debate with you that some people are just a*holes no matter what you do. Could be that your mate has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and you're better off without him. But is he selfish with everyone else, or just you? Because if it's just you then it's more likely that he has some kind of unresolved issue that pertains to just you.

 

I believe that even in the best, most loving relationships there are contentious moments in which you're partner will seize upon the opportunity to 'get your goat'. But you can't allow that to become more than what it is, because if you do, you won't be able to stay together for the long haul.

 

The best part of limiting your expectations to the biggies, like fidelity, fiscal responsibility, honesty, etc. is that the small things that you do for one another become gifts, small tokens of love and comfort.

 

It allows you to become demonstrative in showing your love.

 

EXAMPLE: I usually drive my husband's car on the weekend. It maneuvers better than mine. Every Friday, when he brings it home, there's no gas in it. OMG! That used to p*ss me off! Then, awhile back I got to thinking about it, and I realized that it's not his job to put gas in a car that I'm going to drive. I'm a grown woman for pete's sake...I CAN PUMP MY OWN GAS!

 

So, here are my 'personal responsibility' choices:

 

(1) I can take my own car.

(2) I can use his, and NOT put more gas in it.

(3) I can put gas in and be angry that I had to do it.

(4) I can put the gas in and do it in such a way as it becomes a gift.

 

When I select the fourth option, I find that I'm like a kid at Christmas who can't wait for my special gift to be discovered. Weird, huh? But on Monday, when he gets in his car to go to work, it's like the petrol fairy bestowed her graces upon him and life is good.

 

What I found out next is that most often he would reciprocate, finding some stupid little something that he could do to please me, like loading the dishwasher.......because I wasn't expecting it.

 

I don't know if that helps you at all. I imagine your best bet is to try to get to the heart of the hostility, and then to go from there.

 

Good luck.

 

LadyJane- you are a genius. your advice makes so much sense. In the years I have been with him I have often secretly wondered if I have become just short of a commitment-phobe because I allow these little Seinfeldian pet peeves to EAT at me.

 

Sadly, he and I have been fighting all week about that light issue and about much deeper, more painful things that escalate intensely. Our relationship is on the rocks, or rather has been on the rocks and now seems to be ending : (

 

He has often said that I'm being petty and nitpicky and he disbelieves I'm in it for the "long haul" because those things affect me so much. When he was saying this before it seemed like some sort of evasive rebuttal so that he wouldn't have to correct his behaviors.

 

You really have helped me open my eyes. Fearfully though, it also still validates my theory that there are dynamics between he and I that ARE cause for deeper concerns. His passive agressiveness has become extremly hostile and therefore he is getting angrier and angrier at me inside and harboring more and more resentment. I obviously annoy him too and unfortuantely our mutual methods of resolution don't seem to appease each other. I fear alot of damage has been done.

 

BUT I love him. Deeply. In my concious mind I was in it for the long haul. I was willing to overlook the little things and make very huge sacrifices to be with him and he for me. The profound way you have reminded me of that makes a huge impact to me and even a solace.

 

I don't know really where the state of my relationship is but I do want you to know that your insight into this has been absolutely PRICELESS. Thanks so much.

 

(If you have anymore keep it coming) Thank you soooo much.

[Ladyjane14]

Glad to help. This just worked so well for me that it's a pleasure to share it around.

 

there are dynamics between he and I that ARE cause for deeper concerns. His passive agressiveness has become extremly hostile and therefore he is getting angrier and angrier at me inside and harboring more and more resentment. I obviously annoy him too and unfortuantely our mutual methods of resolution don't seem to appease each other. I fear alot of damage has been done.

 

Why not talk all of this over with him? You might have to bide your time until the conversation can have a positive outcome. Just like science class in school:

 

Positive + Positive = Positive

Positive + Negative = Negative

 

Choose a time when you are BOTH in a good mood and feeling pretty open to talking and negotiating. Listen to all of his issues, and let him win this time.

 

In the interim, why not try showing him your love in small, demonstrative ways? 'Actions speak louder than words', right?