M30USA Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) I am beginning to realize that to observe the mysterious workings of God you cannot just look at a single point in time. You cannot decipher what he is doing by excluding what preceded it or what will follow it. God's work becomes evident over time--usually long periods of time. And if you don't carefully look for it, using wisdom, you will often miss it. I have been amazed recently by how many people I know have either opened their hearts to Christ or are beginning to show signs of a less hardened heart. These include family members and friends. On the flipside, I am equally amazed by how the church (or those who are called by his name) can be so hardened to the truth. How is this possible? How can the churchless and "heathen" become so filled with the true Spirit, while the so-called Church can be so caught up in customs and traditions? Clearly God's spirit cannot be contained, manipulated, or used for our own ends. We also cannot measure or quantify it. As it's written, the Spirit blows where it pleases. (Note here I am not referring to a general pagan spirit, but rather the specific Holy Spirit of Scripture.) I am thankful for these true miracles that God is doing. These are the true miracles. Everyone else can keep their money, blessings, healings, etc, the only thing that matters to me is the Spirit and the eternal fate of those who I care about. Edited October 8, 2013 by M30USA 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tiger Lily Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Rather than judgment and condemnation, it seems that the body of Christ could use more unity and love. reminds me to be "my brother's keeper, so the whole world will know we're not alone"! Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Rather than judgment and condemnation, it seems that the body of Christ could use more unity and love. reminds me to be "my brother's keeper, so the whole world will know we're not alone"! What about when Jesus said that he came not to being peace (or unity) but rather a sword? What about when he said that members of a person's own household will be his enemy? There is only unity in truth. Again, Jesus said what has light in common with darkness? As long as truth is the foundation, I'm all for unity. But if unity is an end for its own sake, even higher than truth, then I'm not going to unite. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 I am beginning to realize that to observe the mysterious workings of God you cannot just look at a single point in time. You cannot decipher what he is doing by excluding what preceded it or what will follow it. God's work becomes evident over time--usually long periods of time. And if you don't carefully look for it, using wisdom, you will often miss it. Breathtaking. You are only 'beginning to realise' this now? jeeesh, we were taught this in Sunday school! Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 Breathtaking. You are only 'beginning to realise' this now? jeeesh, we were taught this in Sunday school! Yes, I know! And you know what else I just realized? 2+2=4. Isn't that incredible? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tiger Lily Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 What about when Jesus said that he came not to being peace (or unity) but rather a sword? What about when he said that members of a person's own household will be his enemy? There is only unity in truth. Again, Jesus said what has light in common with darkness? As long as truth is the foundation, I'm all for unity. But if unity is an end for its own sake, even higher than truth, then I'm not going to unite. The truth of Jesus is love. We are called to be one body, and will reunite with Jesus as a united entity. The sword Jesus speaks of is to separate the light from the dark. But too much judgment against those who are (imperfectly) following God the best they can goes against the idea of highlighting "the speck in my eye when you have a plank in yours"... Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted October 8, 2013 Author Share Posted October 8, 2013 (edited) The truth of Jesus is love. This is a common cliche in the church and, while true, it only presents HALF the truth. Biblically, you cannot separate love from truth. That's merely a human distinction. I agree that the real church should be united. We shouldn't personally attack others. But Paul clearly instructed us to test all doctrines and to call our fellow brothers and sisters out if their doctrine is erroneous. Edited October 8, 2013 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 Yes, I know! And you know what else I just realized? 2+2=4. Isn't that incredible? It is, when you consider that you take your experiences, (2) and compare them to the experience of other guys (+2) and make 500..... Seriously though. Why HAS it taken you this long to realise? Serious question, given your proclivity to matters religious and your devotion to your calling...? Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 OP, have you always been a fundamentalist, since childhood, or has this been a recent thing for you? Raised by non-religious parents. God revealed himself to me around the early high school years. And I don't associate with "fundamentalists". I uphold Scripture on all issues. Fundamentalists have been known to inject a little bit of cultural traditions into the mix and I try not to do that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) It is, when you consider that you take your experiences, (2) and compare them to the experience of other guys (+2) and make 500..... Seriously though. Why HAS it taken you this long to realise? Serious question, given your proclivity to matters religious and your devotion to your calling...? I think you might be oversimplifying my point. Let's get to a specific example: Many people criticize the God of the Bible for committing "genocide". But, as I've said, when you look what happened BEFORE AND AFTER this event, not merely taking it out of context as a single slice of time or isolated event, then you understand God's plan. He actually gave those people 400 years beforehand for them to repent. Even when the Israelities prayed for their promised land, God knew the Canaanites/Amorites were there already, so he basically denied the request of Israel and wouldn't allow them to take the land until "the iniquity of the Amorites is full [or has been fulfilled]." The Amorites were sacrificing children, raping women, murdering routinely, etc, yet God in his mercy and patience gave them 400 years to repent. Turns out they not only didnt repent, but they stepped up their iniquity. This is when God ordered the "genocide" as some have called it. So that's why I was saying you have to view past events and not just isolate this act from the 400 years preceding it. When you do, you realize how patient God really is and suddenly he's not this volitile maniac anymore. In fact, if there is any fault, you'd have a stronger argument to say that he should have acted SOONER because thousands and thousands of babies were getting killed as he waited for them to stop. (And there is a second reason why God ordered the genocide but its too hard to believe for some so I chose not to write it. The first reason suffices for my point.) Edited October 9, 2013 by M30USA Link to post Share on other sites
happydate Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) I think you might be oversimplifying my point. Let's get to a specific example: Many people criticize the God of the Bible for committing "genocide". But, as I've said, when you look what happened BEFORE AND AFTER this event, not merely taking it out of context as a single slice of time or isolated event, then you understand God's plan. He actually gave those people 400 years beforehand for them to repent. Even when the Israelities prayed for their promised land, God knew the Canaanites/Amorites were there already, so he basically denied the request of Israel and wouldn't allow them to take the land until "the iniquity of the Amorites is full [or has been fulfilled]." The Amorites were sacrificing children, raping women, murdering routinely, etc, yet God in his mercy and patience gave them 400 years to repent. Turns out they not only didnt repent, but they stepped up their iniquity. This is when God ordered the "genocide" as some have called it. So that's why I was saying you have to view past events and not just isolate this act from the 400 years preceding it. When you do, you realize how patient God really is and suddenly he's not this volitile maniac anymore. In fact, if there is any fault, you'd have a stronger argument to say that he should have acted SOONER because thousands and thousands of babies were getting killed as he waited for them to stop. (And there is a second reason why God ordered the genocide but its too hard to believe for some so I chose not to write it. The first reason suffices for my point.) God did not order the genocide; the Amorites did. God did not order Sodom and Gommorah destroyed; the citizen did. Let me explain.. God is a creator and he creates us in the image of him, thus we are his co-creators. This is the basic premise, so anything else is just human addition to the equation. As a creator of beings, he is also the creator of LAWS; specifically Universal Laws. One of the main universal law is Law of Free Will. It said that God will NOT VIOLATE the free will of others and any beings created by God MUST UPHOLD to this same standard. Those who did not, like Lucifer and Eve, fell and God let it happen because he is only respecting his own laws. Another reason why God let this horrible things happen is to demonstrate to Lucifer and his evil forces that when he said Free Will, he truly meant free will WITHOUT restrictions and or favouritism either. Thus many of God's followers like that mentioned in the Book of Job seemed to suggest that God is a mean guy and he lets people like Job suffer in the hands of dark forces eventhough Job is loyal to God. But for those who does not understand the bible, skip Sunday school or just paying lip service to God by attending church in body BUT NOT in SPIRIT will all misunderstand God's work and his decision. Part of the Law of Free Will is that, there is actually a TIME LIMIT in how long you can exercise your free will against God. This TIME LIMIT is imposed on all of us; not just to the citizen of Gommorah, but also to the Amorites as well. By the way, whole nation can succumb also to the same faith like Sodom and Gommorah in fire & brimstone and a good example of that is Japan with 2 atomic bomb detonation. You'll find the same description in the Book of Revelation again in the Lake of Fire -- consumed by fire and brimstone. Remember that it was the Japanese that chose this faith -- to bomb Pearl Harbour in a sneak attack and sealed their faith like Sodom & Gommorah. You need to remember that these people chose to defy God. They chose to defy his love like some Christians today who fear God. God will let this happen for a period of time. But you know that in the Book of Revelation, there are specific passages of scriptures that mentioned the "Lake Of Fire" or also known as "Second Death". When our body perishes, our spirit goes and meet God and depending on the crimes and deeds you have performed to defy God, he will be the final judge of all and then it is when you repent and ask mercy and forgiveness and to be forgiven. You do know that there 2 thieves strung up side by side and Christ in between on across in the Gospel of Luke. One is a penitent thief, the other the impenitent thief. As the story goes, the penitent thief asked to be forgiven for the deeds he did and he was given mercy after the facts. Therefore, people who believe God is promoting genocide and injustice is by themselves filled with hatred, remorse and anger because they react to it. 2000 years ago when Jesus Christ roamed the planet, the planet then was more violent then with little injustice like we so enjoyed today. And yet, Jesus Christ with his god given miracles could not even lift all the burdens from all people on all of the continents, despite the fact that he seemed to have what we think as relieving the burdens of our sins. Why? Because like the Lord, he can't do nothing to violate the free will of others if they are intent in the will to defy God. If someone wants to kill babies, Jesus can not do anything to stop it until the person's time limit of his or her exercise on the free will expires. Then the Lord can excise judgement then without breaking the law of free will and Lucifer and his gangs of dark spirits can't do anything to question God's laws. Blessings.. Edited October 9, 2013 by happydate Link to post Share on other sites
pie2 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Everyone else can keep their money, blessings, healings, etc, the only thing that matters to me is the Spirit and the eternal fate of those who I care about. M30, are you tithing?! :confused: Idolatry has a funny way of sneaking up on us... Though you're right. What we sometimes consider blessings, are really what drags us into complacency. The hardest things in life can be "mercies in disguise", as they draw us closer to God. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author M30USA Posted October 11, 2013 Author Share Posted October 11, 2013 M30, are you tithing?! :confused: Idolatry has a funny way of sneaking up on us... Though you're right. What we sometimes consider blessings, are really what drags us into complacency. The hardest things in life can be "mercies in disguise", as they draw us closer to God. I'm tithing, yes. Not sure what percent but I am. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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