Explain my Ex's Behavior...just want to understand

[GoBroncs1983]

I dated a girl for four years. We met when she was 20, and I was 26 (24 and 30 now). Despite our age difference, we got along really well. Despite her young age, culturally (TV, movies, life) she is very mature and articulate – she calls herself a 40 year old woman in a 20 year old body. Emotionally, she is very immature. She has always struggled with her weight, has trouble talking to people, etc. She is also a huge Debbie Downer, and finds the negative in almost everything. She always speaks of moving away to a different city because she hates living here.

 

We moved very fast. We fell in love by talking to each other every day while she was away on a month long family vacation, so we were in love before we even kissed or had sex. The comfort level was instant. She was a virgin before we dated, I wasn't, and that was something that always bothered her – that may come into play later.

 

We moved in with each other about eight months into the relationship, and lived together for about two years. She decided to go back to school (about an hour away) to finish her degree, something she was always planning to do since I met her, and we moved to separate places (another apartment for me, on campus for her) about a year ago, continuing the relationship.

 

Our relationship has always had ups and downs, especially on her end. Any substantial argument would push her to breakup mode, and she “broke up” with me about four different times. I put that in quotes as we would get “back together” within a week or so each time. She is definitely a "flight" in a Fight or Flight situation. Her mother (40 years old but acts 18) does the same thing with her boyfriend, so I feel like it rubbed off on my ex as a behavior. Emotionally, she can only handle so much, and if I don't concede, she does off the deep end.

 

 

My ex had no working vehicle until recently (yes, for FOUR years), so I had to drive out to see her at college. Of course, I didn’t see her enough, according to her (always negative). That was a prevailing factor in our relationship – I wasn’t doing enough. She is very needy and constantly needs emotional stimulation, likely due to her self esteem issues. She would regularly asked me if I had stopped loving her, simply because I hadn’t TOLD her that in a day or so. My feeling was, after three plus years, she should know how much I feel and care and shouldn't need to be reassured. My “lack of effort” (considering she couldn’t come to me with no car, I think it’s unfair to say I wasn’t trying enough) led to another breakup in the spring of this year….and another reconciliation about a week later.

 

She moved back into town over the summer (hates the college town), and again broke up with me during the summer, saying we felt more like friends than boyfriend and girlfriend. Again, she wasn’t getting enough emotional stimulation – it wasn’t like I was neglecting her. A friend of mine said I could have “lived inside her bra” and it wouldn’t have made a difference.

 

Assuming this is yet another temporary breakup, I let it sit for a while, and didn’t allow myself to get upset over it. A month passed. We hung out a few times, but I made a point to not try to be romantic. The feelings were there for both sides, and we still talked almost every day, but there was no “can we get back together?” moment from her. I wasn’t going to let her keep doing it again, and again, and again, you know? But, I underestimated her ability to find someone else, too. She was always the "no one is ever interested in me/hits on me" type.

 

 

She FINALLY got a working vehicle as she had to have one for school (a huge deal for her) and went back to school in August, driving herself to classes (same school) each day. She has also lost 70 pounds, which is fantastic as well.

 

Here’s where it all turns……

 

A week into classes, she is asked out by a guy a year younger than her. I'm sure she wasn't the first, no would she have been the last girl he tried it with. She had just met him the first day of classes. Someone hits on her, and she jumps. They go out (remember, she has a car now), go back to his place, have sex, and she has been regularly seeing him and staying with him ever since. I find out about a week into this new “relationship”, (she didn’t tell me) and I am floored. I thought we were still in “breakup” mode for about the fifth time, and I’m flabbergasted that she has not only started dating someone else, but is sleeping with him immediately. She was NOT that kind of girl (easy), yet how can I determine that when I was her only boyfriend and partner before? Even though she technically didn’t cheat on me, it feels like she did.

 

I told her I love her and want her back, but no dice. She’s still in the honeymoon phase with the new guy. Thus, I start dating another girl, and my ex immediately breaks down and says we cannot talk anymore, it’s too hard for her to see me with someone else. She is also upset that I just found someone so quickly. But she is doing the same thing. We agree to take a break. No contact for about a week. She changes her Facebook photo to her and him (relationship is two weeks old at this point). I cave and reach out just to say hello, and she responds, and we start talking like we always have, but with our significant others hovering over like an elephant in the room. My ex keeps dropping hints about how she misses me, will sometimes say she wants to hang out, wants me there with her, etc. But she still goes to see the new guy, keeps staying with him, sleeping with him, all of that. Of course it drives me nuts, and she knows it. And she knows I’m seeing someone, and it drives HER nuts.

 

The relationship with the new guy is centered around the classes they have together. She stays the night when they have a late class, and occasionally sees him outside of their schedule. She comes back to town and works during the weekends, he has come to her twice, she has stayed with him about two dozen times. Apparently, they won’t have any classes together after December, so let’s see if the relationship changes.

 

According to her, new guy doesn’t call or text much, and she has to ask him to do things. She starts confiding in me that she doesn’t know if it’s going to work out with him, that she doesn’t like his lack of effort (remember, she is used to me being there daily). She also tells me about issues they are having in the bedroom (his) that frustrate her. I'm bothered, because she broke up with me for the same reasons (not the sexual one, ha, but lack of effort, not enough time together, etc). I tell her to sit down and talk to him about these things, but she says she isn’t comfortable with him yet. But….she’s comfortable with me. I feel like a security blanket. She also doesn’t tell the new guy about her weight loss, saying “I don’t want him to imagine me as a fat girl.”

 

I break up with my girl (definition of a rebound if there ever was one) and the next day (coincidence?), my ex has the sit down with the new boyfriend. He tells her he is falling in love with her, and now my ex feels “guilty” for talking to me while this new guy is falling for her (jury is still out on if he truly is - after all, she is giving him everything he wants and I doubt she says "no" that often to him). She says she is not falling for him…..yet. Considering how much she complains about him to me, I’m not surprised. Last week, I went on another date with a different girl, a girl I’ve known even before my ex, and my ex is furious, accuses me of liking the new girl all along, and to never speak to her again. I send her an e-mail that my door is always open if she needs to talk (probably a mistake), and that was a day ago, and she hasn’t responded.

 

It’s all such a mess. I feel like my ex’s behavior is completely absurd, considering how she broke up with me, started seeing and sleeping with someone else, and then gets mad at me for trying to date as well, as if the only thing I’m supposed to do is sit there and be miserable until she is single again. She will calm down and start talking to me again (saying I’m the only person on earth she feels completely comfortable with), but still sees her new guy, who she complains about to me. Any girl I see drives her insane. I also feel hurt that she is seeing a guy who (my opinion) poses no real future for her, and is doing the same things that caused her to break up with me, and is seemingly getting a free pass on all of it. And it has only been a MONTH, not four years.

 

 

I think the hardest thing for me to understand in all of this is how she, the insecure, quiet girl with only one boyfriend and sexual partner (me), can so easily jump into bed with another guy without even knowing him. And then continue that “relationship” and put a label on it. I mean, the girl I’m seeing now, we have gone on three dates and not even kissed yet (she is the same kind of shy type). Is my ex acting out? Why does she continue to see a guy she has so many issues with? Granted, she would have issues with ANYTHING, but still.

 

I’m not looking for reconciliation, but I do miss talking to her. I guess I just want to understand her behavior. She obviously isn’t over me, so why is she seeing and constantly staying with this new guy, and bend over backwards for him? I wouldn’t be able to do it so easily, and I don’t have the self-esteem issues that she does. What bugs me the most is that she acts like this is all so natural (“He asked ME out, I wasn’t looking for this….this is how it works! You date someone and it turns into something more as you get to know them!”)….but when you read this, does it seem that simple? Am I correct in thinking that it won't last with this guy? Is she trying to get over me? I can't imagine that she is seriously thinking about being with this guy long term. He shares a "filthy" apartment (her words) with two other guys, has no job, drives his dad's car.....but she is with him and his place instead of me ($40k a year job, my own place, etc)?

 

My current approach is to just let it sit….even if that means through the end of the semester, when the relationship with the new guy will change (no more classes together). But of course I want to reach out to her, but feel that I will get a “we can’t talk anymore” response. But she has said that before, and I know she wants to talk to me, and isn’t over me, too.

 

Eh? I just wish some psychiatrist would just sit me down and explain why she is behaving this way. That’s what I want more than anything – to understand – because she is giving me such a spun version of what she is doing and feeling. She is extremely perceptive, and sees through a lot of crap, yet she is defending everything she is doing right now. She is just doing whatever necessary to maintain what she has with this guy, and I don't know why.

Edited October 9, 2013 by GoBroncs1983
Added stuff

[Chi townD]

Dude, you need to cut this girl out of your life. SHE made the choice to end it with you and jump right into bed with someone else. Not you. Therefore, she needs to live with the consequences of her actions. Therefore you are within your rights to date whoever the hell you want.

 

You need to go no contact on her. Ignore all phonecalls, texts and emails. Block her on Facebook. Remember, she made the decision to have YOU out of HER life. Right now, you're giving her the best of both worlds. She has you to fill her emotional needs and him to fill all of her physical needs. How is that fair to you?

 

And it's definitely not fair to the girl you're dating now. She didn't sign up to date a guy that's only half in. If you can't give 100% of yourself to a girl that has done nothing to you other than to agree to go on a date with a guy that she's interested in, then you shouldn't be dating her. That's not fair to her. Because she deserves to be with a guy that wants to be with her because there's no other place in the world that he would rather be.

 

You're still hung up on your Ex. And you're not being fair.

[GoBroncs1983]

You are exactly correct.

 

It's very new with MY new girl, and if it turns into something more, I honestly won't care about anything my ex does anymore. I'm assuming my ex feels the same way about her new guy, which is why she still talked to me. I'm just in that weird in between phase. And I want to understand why more than anything.

 

I'm not looking to get back together with her. I AM trying to make it work with my new girl. I just know what I'm being presented by my ex isn't the truth. I want someone to tell me "She's acting this way because....ABCD....and it's not because of anything you did." Peace of mind would really help right now. If I dated my ex for six months, this would be easier. But we have such a history, and it was cut off. It's like she died, in a way.

 

I get that aspect of it. I'm not "half in" with my new girl, I'm not trying to sabotage or shortcut her because I want my ex back. Frankly, if my ex texted me today that she broke up with her guy and wants me back, I would say no. So there's that.

 

I am just trying to understand my ex's behavior, primarily. She was very devoted to me when we were together. She wanted to even go to the grocery store together. If I wanted to run to Taco Bell, she would jump up to go with me. Very clingy, very needy. Yet, she goes out with and sleeps with a guy within a week of meeting him. And he doesn't seem as interested as she wants/needs him to be, yet she stays with him. The hardest thing I'm trying to grasp is how she can be immediately sleeping with someone new, especially with her body issues. She would regularly want all of the lights off in the bedroom when we had sex, because she didn't want me to see her body. Yet, this guy......

 

And he isn't meeting her physical needs. I won't get explicit, but she defends it by saying he "psyches himself out" and cannot perform. She even told me that well, I'm bigger than he is. So the physical needs aren't been met, at least not consistently But she is still with him. He's indifferent toward her and doesn't make an effort, but she is still with him. By the way, everything was perfect and the grass was green at the outset of the relationship, this stuff trickled out after we started talking again after a week of NC.

 

The close friends I have talked to about this say to stop talking to her, to let her experience this new guy without me there. Wait until they fight and she has to deal with it alone, they say. But I truly think she will just stay with him to have a warm body to sleep next to if anything, especially if she knows I'm seeing someone.

 

I like talking to her because we both know each other so well and well, I don't have anyone else that close in my life. I get that my new girlfriend should be that person, though. I was bothered by her "never talk to me again" attitude last week. She has never slammed the door in my face like that. Does she still want to talk to me?

 

It's just a weird transition, and I want to understand how it all happened.

[lookingforbalance]

Whoa, slow down and take a step back for a second or two.

You say she could call you tomorrow, want to get back together with you, and you would blow her off like she was a carcus on the side of the road. Then you go on to a rant about her relationship with him, how they talk, how they sleep, how big his penis is, and on and on. So the first question I suggest you ask yourself:

If you don't want her back, then why doees it matter, any of it?

It could be 100 different reasons, anything from past abandonment issues to a mental imbalance, to coming into her own and wanting to explore, anything. She may not even know for sure, so what good does it do to obsess over the reason? Just like Chi said, its done and over, she is now using you for emotional support and him for physical exploration. She is telling you all the sexual parts of her relationship to see if it will make you jealous, you have no idea if any of it is true. And you have completely taken the bait.

From an outsider's perspective, you are obsessed with this chick, and have a few control issues of your own. And as far as your current girlfriend, show her the rants you have been posting on here and let her decide for herself if she thinks you are over your ex and in your relationship with her 100%. My guess is she would drop you like a bag of wet cement.

Stop and think about your own behavior in this whole scenario, it will do you some good.

[Chi townD]

Dude, it could be ANYTHING! But, nothing that you did. She made this choice. Not you. Therefore, she has to live with it. You want answers? Take your pick! You met her when she was 20 (just barely out of her teens) she's never had any other experiences other than you. You said she lost 70 pounds and is feeling good about her personal appearance, could be she likes the attention she's now getting from other guys. Maybe this dude was close and convenient and she took him up on his offer. There, there's three of them. Take your pick.

 

And don't believe anything she says to you. Chances are their sex life is just fine. Why would she want to tell you about her sex life anyway? And, if she wants to string you along (as she has been going), why would she admit to you that the sex is toe curlingly awesome! Her telling you that it's bad, awful and you're bigger is an ego boost to you! To keep you around!

 

And even though you say you're dedicated to the new girl, if she knew or knows that you're still in contact with your Ex. That may make her feel....jaded or less important to you. So, I suggest that this weekend you make a special weekend for her. Take her to a local B&B or something. Take her shopping and to a nice little lunch at a quaint Bistro. Let her know that you appreciate the time that she spends with you.

[Crashandburn]

You said she lost 70 lbs and this was the first time another man (other than you) that has shown any interest in her.

At her young age... It may go to her head. I'd say she wants it all right now and she has GIGS (grass is greener syndrome). Happens a lot in college or after moving/changing jobs. The change makes you feel like you can and should start fresh. She is curious about what the world has to offer her.

 

By the way I'm sure you know this but she is being VERY selfish (and always has been according to your account). She is enjoying the ego boost of having 2 men like her. You said she was VERY insecure, well this helps her feel much better about herself doesn't it?

 

Also, you said SHE has all these insecurities etc and YOU don't really have them, but then why are you with someone so difficult and can't compromise? You are always bending over backwards for her, what has she done for you? Don't you think you might have these issues as well? No one should be doing all of this and be unappreciated unless you didn't believe you deserved it. I actually went through this... and I look back to my experience and still am confused as to how I was even in that kind of relationship for so long. The guy I was with also lost like 50 pounds or so before he met me and had lots of issues.

 

Instead of analyzing what is up in her head you should see why you are still so obsessed with a woman who

1) broke up with you for the 5th time

2) Is controlling and Selfish

3) Makes you feel BAD all the time

 

This is called emotional abuse and it is very addictive so you need to get yourself off of it. An article mentions that is like withdrawal symptoms of heroine! I would recommend looking these terms up and seeing if you think you can relate at all.

 

But if you must understand her:

She has no trouble hurting you, no trouble moving on but keeping you on a leash. Honestly it's hard to understand someone who is extremely selfish because we are not meant to be so self involved when we are in relationships. I'm sure you are very giving and kind so she loves that about you but for someone like you to try and understand someone that is almost incapable of being selfless at times in love... is very difficult. You would have to think outside what we find to be normal.

 

I'd like to say they are heartless but you were with her so long that of course you feel that is not the case but if it gets worse, I promise you will have moments where you believe it. This is the only way she knows how to treat people without getting hurt herself. It is a defense mechanism but seriously it could get a lot worse... cheating, jealousy, and manipulation could become her tools too.

 

If she starts to show more lack of any remorse we would start to think of her as a sociopath...

 

so that is what I believe is happening. I am no pro but I have been through some crappy relationships only to find that I need to work on myself and get over those that don't treat me in the way that I want.

[Downtown]

GB, welcome to the LS forum. The behaviors you describe -- verbal abuse, low self esteem, clinginess, temper tantrums, inability to trust, emotional immaturity, and lack of impulse control -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), which my exW has. If your exGF has moderate to strong traits of that disorder, it would be prudent to learn to spot the red flags because you likely are at risk of leaving her only to run right into the arms of another woman just like her.

I just wish some psychiatrist would just sit me down and explain why she is behaving this way.

Yes, a psychologist or psychiatrist would be your best source of information. Hence, if you are ever tempted to renew your toxic relationship this unstable woman -- as you've done at least four times previously -- I strongly recommend that you see a psychologist, for a visit or two by yourself, to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you have been dealing with.

 

At this point, however, I simply suggest that you read about BPD warning signs to see if most of those red flags sound very familiar. Of course, you cannot determine whether your exGF's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis. You nonetheless are capable of spotting the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

 

I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your exGF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.

Emotionally, she is very immature....Emotionally, she can only handle so much, and if I don't concede, she does off the deep end.

The inability to regulate one's own emotions is the key characteristic of a person having strong BPD traits (i.e., a "BPDer"). Indeed, a large segment of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for two decades to change the name of this disorder to "Emotional Regulation Disorder."

 

If your exGF really does exhibit strong BPD traits, her emotional development likely was frozen at the level of a four year old -- by genetics together with a trauma occurring before age five. This leaves the BPDer fully reliant on those primitive ego defenses that are available to young children. These include temper tantrums, denial, projection, black-white thinking, and magical thinking.

She would regularly ask me if I had stopped loving her, simply because I hadn’t TOLD her that in a day or so. My feeling was, after three plus years, she should know how much I feel and care.

No, she won't "know" that if she is a BPDer, because BPDers are so emotionally immature that they never learned to see "object constancy" very well. That is, they never learned to perceive other people's personalities and feelings to be roughly constant from day to day. Because BPDers are so emotionally unstable and have very little sense of who they really are, they generally believe that other people are capable of radical changes from week to week -- just like they are.

 

Because a BPDer never learned how to integrate the good and bad aspects of her personality, she is very intolerant of ambiguities, uncertainties, and other grey areas in interpersonal relationships. She therefore shoehorns everyone into a black or white box, perceiving of individuals as "all good" or "all bad." And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other, in just ten seconds, based solely on a minor comment or infraction. This process is called "black-white thinking" (aka, "splitting you black" and "splitting you white").

 

On top of that object constancy problem, a BPDer has such a great fear of abandonment that she is incapable of trusting you. Because she hates herself, she lives in the fear that you will leave as soon as you realize that she is empty inside.

Again, she wasn’t getting enough emotional stimulation – it wasn’t like I was neglecting her. A friend of mine said I could have “lived inside her bra” and it wouldn’t have made a difference.

BPDers typically are very clingy and needy for affection and attention. "Chronic feelings of emptiness" is one of the classic BPD traits. This is one reason why it is impossible to make her happy no matter how much you do. Trying to fill up that emptiness in her is as pointless and futile as trying to fill up the Grand Canyon with a squirt gun. This feeling of emptiness also helps explain why BPDers are nearly always interested in creating drama, not finding solutions to problems.

She has always struggled with her weight.

Another symptom of having strong BPD traits is the lack of impulse control, which can show itself in reckless behavior such as excessive gambling, binge eating, and binge spending.

She is also a huge Debbie Downer, and finds the negative in almost everything.

You may be describing the black-white thinking I mentioned above. If your exGF is a BPDer, the B-W thinking will be evident in frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "You NEVER..." and "You ALWAYS...." It also will be evident in the way she categorizes many people as "all bad" based solely on some minor transgression or comment.

The comfort level was instant.

That will nearly always be true whenever a BPDer is infatuated with you. Because she has no stable idea who she really is, she has a lifetime of experience with emulating the personalities of others she is around. She has done this in order to fit in, be accepted, and be loved. Hence, when a BPDer becomes infatuated with you, she pulls out all the stops and emulates all the best features of your personality so perfectly that both of you will be convinced you are "soul mates." Yet, when the infatuation fades -- typically after 3 to 6 months -- her idealization of you will evaporate and her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) will return.

Our relationship has always had ups and downs, especially on her end. Any substantial argument would push her to breakup mode, and she “broke up” with me about four different times.

This push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle is another hallmark of a relationship with a BPDer. In such relationships, the couple typically go through many breakup/reconcile cycles before finally splitting for good. A recent poll at BPDfamily.com found that 60% of such relationships have 3 or more BU/R cycles before separating permanently. A third of them had 6 or more such breakup cycles -- and a fourth had 10 or more such breakup cycles -- before separation was permanent.

Her mother (40 years old but acts 18) does the same thing with her boyfriend, so I feel like it rubbed off on my ex as a behavior.

As I mentioned above, having strong BPD traits is believed to be passed from one generation to the other through genetics (which creates a predispostion) together with abuse (e.g., emotionally unavailable mother) or abandonment. Moreover, 70% of BPDers report that they had been abused or abandoned in childhood.

I’m flabbergasted that she has not only started dating someone else, but is sleeping with him immediately. She was NOT that kind of girl (easy).

If she has strong BPD traits, she will behave very differently around different people because she uses their personalities to ground and center her own actions and goals. As to your being "flabbergasted," you should not be surprised to see her becoming quickly infatuated with the guy. If she is a BPDer, she will be very quick to place a guy on the pedestal and just as quick, several months later, to knock him off of it.

 

Clearly, that is what she seems to have done with you. Indeed, she claimed to love you after speaking with you on the phone, long distance, for only a few weeks. As you said, "We moved very fast. We fell in love by talking to each other every day while she was away on a month long family vacation...."

My ex keeps dropping hints about how she misses me.... But she still goes to see the new guy, keeps staying with him, sleeping with him, all of that. Of course it drives me nuts, and she knows it....She starts confiding in me that she doesn’t know if it’s going to work out with him.

This behavior is called "triangulation," an immature behavior often seen among young teens and adult BPDers. It occurs when an insecure person plays two other love interests off each other. For a while, she will claim to love one of them while being critical of the other. Then she will suddenly switch, showing favoritism to the previously banished guy. In this immature way, she tries to strengthen her appeal to both of them by portraying herself as the prize to be won -- while ensuring that she has at least one of them to count on if the other abandons her.

I feel like my ex’s behavior is completely absurd, considering how she broke up with me, started seeing and sleeping with someone else, and then gets mad at me for trying to date as well.

If she has strong BPD traits, that double standard is easy to explain. Like every four year old, a BPDer has one set of standards for herself and another set for everyone else. Moreover, she will change both sets every time her moods change. This is what happens when a woman has the intelligence, education, and body strength of a full grown adult -- but the emotional development of a four year old.

She is seeing a guy who (my opinion) poses no real future for her, and is doing the same things that caused her to break up with me, and is seemingly getting a free pass on all of it. And it has only been a MONTH, not four years.

EVERYBODY gets a free pass with a BPDer during the infatuation period. As I noted above, his pass will fully expire in 3 to 6 months, if she is a BPDer.

 

GB, if you would like to read more about the BPD warning signs, I suggest you take a look at my posts in Rebel's thread at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, GB.

[GoBroncs1983]

I understand my behavior is wishy washy, and I’m working on getting over her, but really, I want to understand her behavior more than anything. I think attention is a big part of it. New guy hits on her, she jumps right in. She’s having doubts and wonders if he's not into her, then he tells her he’s falling in love with her (is he?) and everything is fine again. Words are louder than actions with her.

 

Interestingly, she downplays staying the night(s) with him to me, saying it’s easier just to stay with him than drive all the way back to her apartment (he lives off campus), as if that’s the main reason. One time, she said she only stayed with him because they missed the bus from campus to their cars and had to walk. Why can’t she just say that she stays there because she wants to be with him?

 

When she told me that he told her that he was falling in love with her, I asked her, “Are you falling for him?” and she said “Not right now, no.” You’d say she tells me that because she wants to keep me close, but it was part of the same conversation/argument where she told me never to speak to her again (now that I’m seeing a new girl), so go figure. Again, wouldn't she say, "Never speak to me again! Have fun with (girl), I'm falling in love with (him)!" It just goes against what someone should say, and I feel like she is being genuine about those things. And her sex with him, too.

 

Regarding sex – I feel the opposite of what ChiTown said. I feel like she would want me to know that it’s going well in that department if that was the case. The funny thing is, she asked me point blank two weeks ago if I slept with my (turned out to be a rebound – not the current) girl, and I said yes, we had. Only then did she give me (negative) specifics on her sex life with this new guy. Wouldn’t she want to throw “perfect sex life better than you!” back in my face when she knew for sure that I was sleeping with someone else? She’s not one to concede or admit if things aren’t going well. I was actually shocked that she told me.

 

She let it be known when we dated that she was always down for sex, and thus, it made it less exciting in a way. I didn’t have to work at it at all. I know for some people, that sounds like a gift from God, but I could literally be sitting on the couch with her and make a move, and she would reciprocate, every single time. It felt robotic, in a way, like we were checking it off a list. In the bedroom, she wasn’t “bad” or anything, but it always felt routine, and planned. She would always tell me how many days it had been since we did it, and if it got to be three or more, she would act very frustrated and make accusations that I didn’t like her (again, body issues).

 

And it was always expected, especially when I went to see her at school. It always seemed like sex was the elephant in the room that we needed to take care of, every time, again, like a checklist. Need to eat dinner, have sex, watch whatever show, in bed by midnight. It rarely felt special, but she needed it to remain happy. She used the term "sexually frustrated" a billion times. If we didn’t, she would get upset. If we did and it didn’t go fantastic, she would pout and think something was wrong. I’d say 90% of the time it was sex that most would find satisfactory, but if it took longer to climax, or if for some reason I didn’t (it happened sometimes), she would get really depressed for the rest of the day. She never orgasmed with me unless it was a certain way, which we discovered near the end of the relationship, interestingly. She claims she has never had an orgasm with the new guy sexually, either, because again, he loses his erection quickly and they can't even have penetrative sex.

 

She told me the new guy told her that he didn’t want the expectation to be that they will have sex every time she stays over, so it sounds like she is imposing herself on him all the time as well and it's expected to happen, OR ELSE. That's why I believe her when she says he is having issues. It’s like she is making herself available physically on purpose to whomever she is with, immediately, all of the time. Maybe I shouldn’t be surprised that she slept with him the first night – although she says she didn’t plan to and she didn’t know what he meant when he invited her back to his apartment. Either she is extremely naïve, or lying. Ha.

 

 

 

BUT ENOUGH ABOUT SEX.

Edited October 9, 2013 by GoBroncs1983

[GoBroncs1983]

Downtown, your reply helped immensely. I never thought about her having any kind of diagnosable disorder, just immaturity.

 

My ex’s parents divorced when she was seven, and she lived back and forth with both of them throughout her childhood and teens. Her mom remarried (and then divorced) a wealthy executive type that my ex hated. About five years ago (she would have been 17 or 18), when she was living with her father, she (her story) got tired of him bringing numerous women home and left in the middle of the night to go live with her mom, and hasn’t spoken to him since. Her mom has told me in private that she worries that something bigger happened with that situation (abuse), but my ex would have told that to me if that was the case, I think. My ex told me she has no plans to ever speak to her father again, and in fact we saw him at a restaurant once (he didn’t see her) and she literally jumped up from the table and ran out the door and we had to leave, mid meal. Her mom might be on to something.

 

Again, her mom is 40 going on 18, twice divorced, and everything my ex tells me she doesn't want to be with her life. But what is she doing now?

 

 

My ExGF told me a story of when her parents told her they were getting divorced, it was at a restaurant, and she cried into a purple cloth dinner napkin that she took home with her, and kept it for years. She claimed to have thrown it away when we moved in together, but I wonder if she actually did.

 

She spent most of her teen years bouncing around different schools (depending on which parent she was living with) and thus only had a few friends. She spent a lot of time on internet messageboards for bands and TV shows, and thus was very well read and articulate when you knew her well. But she was anxious and introverted around almost anyone new, so I was surprised when she hooked up with a guy within a week of classes starting this fall.

 

Another thing I didn’t mention in the original post but should reveal now I guess is that I have a 7 year old daughter from a previous relationship, she lives with me (and us when my ex and I lived together) part time. Remember, my ex hated that I had been with someone else and she hadn’t, and well, you can imagine how she viewed my daughter. She always said she hated that she would never be #1 in my life, even though I said she was just as important to my future as my child was. She would often talk about moving away after school, but would never include me in her plans because, her words, my daughter wouldn’t allow me to move (not true if the circumstances were correct).

 

Another thing is that she is always looking for a way out, even immediately. Not seriously, but she is never happy. When we moved in together, my daughter spilled a glass of orange juice the first week, and my ex became very depressed and said she can’t live with a child, as if it was the final straw, but it was literally the first. When she moved into her college apartment, she called me THE NEXT DAY, crying, saying she had made a terrible mistake, hated her apartment, hated the college town, and didn’t know what to do. She made it for a year before moving home, but now stays with the new guy in a “filthy” apartment (her words) in the same area of the same college town.

 

As you may expect, when she moved home this summer (back in with her mom) within a week she was tired of it. So, she’s always wanting a change. I’m actually surprised we lasted four years together.

 

The proverbial “infatuation” period with this new guy will end in December, when classes end and there is a month until Spring semester starts, and they won’t have any classes together anymore to tie in with her staying the night so naturally. I suppose I shouldn’t expect to hear from her until then? She has always seemed to be okay with no contact, but dives right back in with me the two times I have broken it first. She hasn’t contacted me in response to my e-mail, though. She told me on Friday that she felt guilty that he was falling for her when she wasn’t for him, and that it was wrong to talk to me when he has such strong feelings for her. I suppose she’s not talking to me for that reason, but I wonder, when they have a fight, or he isn’t as cuddly as she wants one night…..

[GoBroncs1983]

Jealousy was HUGE for her. If I even liked another girl's status on Facebook, she would bug me about it. She would look at girls I worked with, every photo. Seldom did it ever get vicious, but she did accuse me of having a crush on a co-worker who I interacted a lot with on there. She kept telling me I was going to end up with said girl after we broke up, although I have zero interest. I would say a girl at the grocery store was cute, and she would jump down my throat, especially if she was a different body type/hair color/whatever. "She's what you want." If I went out with friends, she would pout when I got home. When she would seldom go out with her friends (usually from work), she would stay out until 4am, and would think it was perfectly fine.

 

My best friend is a girl that I have known for a decade, always platonic. She's also married, so you wouldn't think that she would be a threat to my ex, but she was. She's gorgeous, smart, and has a great body (ah, there's the reason). My ex was severely intimidated by her at the start of our relationship. "She's so outgoing, smart, and has a killer body" she told me (remember my ex's weight issues). To calm her fears, I told her that my best friend actually was full of a lot of **** sometimes and was fake in a lot of ways. True, and I didn't want my ex to feel inferior. But guess what? It went from "I don't want you hanging out with her because she is smart and has a killer body" to "I don't want you hanging out with her because she is totally fake and not authentic." It didn't matter. Is that, and jealousy in general, a BPD trait?

 

I bring this all up because I think she isn't talking to me right now because my new girl is someone I have known for years, even before I met my ex. My ex accused me of having a crush on her the entire time we dated (not true) on Friday and said never to speak to her again, as if I'm finally with the girl I always wanted to be with. Remember, my ex IS dating someone else, too, even though she doesn't act like it. The girl I dated as a rebound was someone new, and while my ex became a blubbering mess at the start and cut off contact for a week, eventually she could talk to me about her. She could even talk to me about wanting to find someone and being happy, but when she discovered it was (new girl who I've known for years), she blew a gasket and cut contact, and she's never done that. This new girl, it seems, really struck a nerve because of her perceived notion that I have liked her for years. It makes me sad that she thinks that, but it's her choice not to talk to me. I'm sad if it ended that way, over a false thought.

 

I want it to be known that my ex was a great person 80% of the time, and I never thought she was "crazy". We had many fun times together, but her immaturity (BPD?) really came out in her jealousy and when we argued. She was very combative and rarely conceded. I was able to handle her ups and downs, her Eeyore personality, but it wasn't always bliss, for sure. She was needy, depressed, moody, self conscious, and an over thinker, but I look back on our time together as good. She always was supportive, told me I was one of the most brilliant people she knew, and loved and always wanted to spend time with me. She would tell me she loved me and missed me constantly. Very affectionate. She was a great companion to do things with and spend time with, but the immaturity would seep out - but she wasn't some angry hyena. She was up front and told me she has self esteem, body, and social issues, so seeing her with a new guy (seemingly) so easily is a shock. I just want to understand why she is behaving the way she is now, because despite everything I have said, it's uncharacteristic.

 

However, whenever I would talk to her about her depression, social anxiety, insecurities, she would always blame it on her weight and her appearance. "If I loved how I looked, I would be 500% more confident" she always said. Well, she loses 75 pounds, a guy hits on her in class, and she immediately sleeps with him and becomes his girlfriend. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that it happened. I am surprised that she was able to make the leap from insecure to sex/relationship with a new guy so quickly....not necessarily so quickly after our breakup, but within a week of meeting him and within 24 hours of him asking her out. Just last week she said she still needs to lose 30 more pounds (she wasn't obese, but yes, was overweight) to really feel happy, as 100 pounds was her "goal." So she's still not confident in her appearance, and I don't think she ever will be.

 

And yes, I like the new girl I'm dating, honestly! I'm seeing her again this weekend and looking forward to it. I wish it was sooner. She is kind of hard to read as well, but if I end up falling for her, my ex will drift off into the ether. I am trying to move on, and gaining an understanding of my ex's behaviors and reasons for our breakup will help me immensely in my next (and future, if necessary) relationships. It saddens me how it ended up with my ex (currently no contact and on bad terms) because I never want a relationship in my life to be broken. But I understand the other person may not see it that way, either.

 

Okay, information overload. I'm going to step back and let others answer.

Edited October 9, 2013 by GoBroncs1983

[GoBroncs1983]

Well, I texted her this morning. My ex. My main reason for doing so was because I don't want to be hated and expelled from her life (it seemed that way when we last spoke), in the same kind of category as her dad has been. I also hate the tension and lingering worries after she told me "never" to speak to her again last week with such vitriol, and it saddened me. I didn't want it to end like that.

 

I asked her if she "still hated me." I said what I mentioned above, I don't want her to think of me like she thinks of her dad, and that we are better than what happened last Friday.

 

She responded: "I will never hate you, but I don't want to talk right now."

 

Right now. Leaving the door open, it seems.

 

I responded, told her I respected her need for space, and that she should never be afraid to contact me if she wants to talk again. I told her that I cared about her and valued her more than anyone else (both true). I figured if it is BPD, she needs to receive and see that acknowledgment, a declaration, as she accused me of not giving a **** about her now that I'm seeing someone else. I didn't mention my new girl, didn't mention her guy, didn't say that I loved her, but it was nice to know that she is either just angry now, or needing space, or feels that it's unfair to talk to me while dating someone else.

 

She didn't respond back.

 

I do hope someday we can talk again and be at least friends. I would prefer it NOW, but she doesn't want that. Reconciliation (relationship) would take a tremendous amount of time if it ever happened, but of course neither of us are thinking of that right now. I may not be if I fall more for my new girl, and then all of this was a waste of typing, ha.

 

I kind of feel like I screwed up - not by being a bad boyfriend, but not noticing her BPD tendencies, not "handling" her right. I know that's terrible and I shouldn't think that, but I feel like I could be very beneficial for her if we ever spoke again, knowing what I know now, without even telling her she may have BPD, just taking the right approach when she acts out.

 

We had a similar, more lovey dovey conversation when I started dating my first (rebound) girl about a month ago (after both agreeing to take a break), she again said she needed space - that we were great friends but it was too hard right now. I let it sit for about five days before contacting again. She responded, and we began talking like normal (all outlined in previous posts) until last Friday when SHE cut me off after finding out I had another girl. I hope she still wants to be friends, and isn't trying to get over me to where she doesn't care anymore.

 

This time, I'm going to let it sit. Her relationship with this guy is going to sink or swim regardless of if I'm involved - I was fearful that if I let her be with him, I'd never hear from her again. Likely it will sink, but he's kind of a nerdy nice guy who may tolerate her behaviors, but again there is the fact that they won't have classes together next semester, he isn't going anywhere (no job, no money), and she hates driving to school and back to begin with - plus his lack of effort. Until I found someone (and I still feel this way because I still have feelings for my ex), I fear that she will end up falling in love with him and I will never hear from her again. It's like holding onto a thread that you should let go of, but can't.

 

Downtown, she was already complaining about her new guy "not making enough of an effort" a month into the relationship. Could the infatuation period already be over, or because she sticks with him, could it just be another trait? She complains about him, but still goes to him. He tells her he's falling for her, and it's like a reset button for about a week, until she starts seeing things again and complaining. Of course, I have no idea what has happened in the last week, or what will happen in the future, but he wasn't on a pedestal for long, it seems.

 

I now fear that I'm going through the adjustment to a "normal" girl. I message my new girlfriend, and she takes a day or so to respond. I see that she's online, I know she has her phone, why isn't she answering? And she isn't as blunt or up front with me as my ex was - hard to read. I'm so used to my ex being RIGHT there for three years, and she is with me as well, which may be a lot of her frustration with her new guy.

 

Alas, life goes on.......

[Downtown]

Downtown....I never thought about her having any kind of diagnosable disorder, just immaturity.

GB, the only way to know whether she has a "diagnosable disorder" is to see a professional, as I noted earlier. Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether your exGF is a suitable marriage candidate, you don't need to know whether her traits surpass the diagnostic threshold.

 

Even when those traits fall well short of that threshold, they can make your life miserable and destroy a marriage. A person exhibiting 70% or 80% of the diagnostic criteria can be nearly as difficult to live with as someone exhibiting 100%. Hence, at issue is not whether her BPD traits reach the diagnostic threshold (for "having BPD") but, rather, whether her behavior is near the upper end of the BPD spectrum.

 

This is why I suggested you consider whether she has "moderate to strong traits." If she does, you should be able to spot the red flags for a woman you've been dating about four years. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and temper tantrums.

My ex’s parents divorced when she was seven, and she lived back and forth with both of them throughout her childhood and teens.

If she has strong BPD traits, the damage to her emotional core likely happened earlier than that -- before age five, when she was trying to develop an integrated self image and learn to manage her emotions.

 

Typically what happens is that the child inherits a predispostion to BPD (i.e., an oversensitivity to other peoples' actions) and this develops into having strong BPD traits if childhood trauma (e.g., emotionally unavailable mother) occurs before age five. It is believed that, if the genetic predisposition is sufficiently strong, it will develop into BPD even absent the childhood trauma.

My ex hated that I had been with someone else and she hadn’t, and well, you can imagine how she viewed my daughter. She always said she hated that she would never be #1 in my life.

Similarly, my BPDer exW hated my foster son. BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) typically are jealous of anyone you love dearly because it diminishes the amount of attention you can focus on the BPDer.

She is never happy.

Like I said, trying to fill up the emptiness inside a BPDer is like trying to fill up the Grand Canyon using a squirtgun. It is an exaggeration, however, to say that BPDers are "never happy." I think you mean to say that her happiness, like that of moody young child, simply does not last very long.

She called me THE NEXT DAY, crying, saying she ...hated her apartment, hated the college town, and didn’t know what to do. ...when she moved home this summer,...within a week she was tired of it. So, she’s always wanting a change.

Because a BPDer doesn't have a stable self image, she cannot know today what she is going to want tomorrow, much less next week. With my exW, for example, I could thrill her with new jewelry, furniture, or clothing. Indeed, she would sometimes be very happy for several days. And the more I spent, the longer that happiness would last. A $3,500 piano, for example, bought me over a week of glee.

 

Then, as certain as night follows day, the wonderful new gift stayed out of sight in a drawer or closet. It suddenly was the wrong color, wrong size, or had the wrong set of features -- never mind that she had been the one to pick it out. I eventually sold the piano, for example, because she had set down and played it only five times in three years. Similarly, she quickly stopped using the $5,000 worth of sewing machines and $6,000 worth of fabric she had bought. Out of that $11,000 investment, she produced one dress, one vest, and a fabric cat collar.

When we moved in together, my daughter spilled a glass of orange juice the first week, and my ex became very depressed and said she can’t live with a child.

You are describing yourself being in a room with two children, not just one. If your exGF has strong BPD traits, as you suspect, her emotional develop likely is three years younger than that of your 7 year-old daughter.

Is jealousy, in general, a BPD trait?

Yes. Or, more accurately, the trait is called "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment." Indeed, it is the first of the nine traits listed in the APA's diagnostic manual. This great abandonment fear will be manifested outwardly as irrational jealousy and very controlling behavior.

My ex was a great person 80% of the time, and I never thought she was "crazy".

So was my exW. Indeed, because she was a high functioning BPDer, she was a "great person" nearly 100% of the time around strangers, casual friends, and business associates. None of those folks posed a threat to her two fears.

 

As to your exGF not being "crazy," I note that BPDers generally are not "crazy," which describes someone who has lost touch with physical reality. BPDers generally see physical reality just fine. What is distorted -- by their intense feelings -- is their perception of other peoples' intentions and motivations.

I kind of feel like I screwed up - not by being a bad boyfriend, but not noticing her BPD tendencies, not "handling" her right.

If she has only mild to moderate BPD traits, you may be able to defuse many arguments by using the validating techniques discussed in books such as Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

Yet, if she has strong BPD traits, that approach will have little or no effect. In that case, it is impossible to "handle her right," as you say. One reason is that her two fears (abandonment and engulfment) lie at the opposite ends of the VERY SAME spectrum. This means that, as you back away to avoid triggering one fear, you necessarily are drawing closer to triggering the other fear. This is why you will always be in a lose-lose situation with a BPDer. The other reason is that she will be incapable of trusting you.

Downtown...could the infatuation period already be over, or because she sticks with him, could it just be another trait?

It could be either but, then, why does it matter? If she is a BPDer, no matter what she is feeling today has little impact a week from now. What is important is how she is feeling at any moment in time. This is how emotionally unstable people behave.

I now fear that I'm going through the adjustment to a "normal" girl.

This is a common complaint from guys who've been dating BPDers. As I noted earlier, BPDers are extremely passionate and periodically -- between all the fights and hissy fits -- will treat you to unadulterated pure adoration, making you feel like God's gift to women. And the sex -- at least at the beginning -- is to die for! So it can be very hard "to settle" for dating a normal woman who doesn't give you the fireworks and intense passion in the first few weeks.Actually, you can let go -- and you've already started the process of doing so. You've started to learn about your exGF's childish, unstable behavior. Even if you eventually take her back, you will never be able to see her in the same way again. You simply know too much to overlook the childishness.

I fear that she will end up falling in love with him and I will never hear from her again. It's like holding onto a thread that you should let go of, but can't.

I feel like I could be very beneficial for her if we ever spoke again...just taking the right approach when she acts out.

Like me, you seem to be an excessive caregiver who is strongly attracted to women who desperately need you. If so, your desire to be needed (for what you can do) far exceeds your desire to be loved (for the man you already are).

 

I suspect that you are already starting to see the role you played in this toxic relationship, i.e., that of "white knight" who rides in to save the maiden from her unhappiness. Sadly, it is impossible for you to do that if she has strong BPD traits. Indeed, a team of psychologists cannot help her unless she is willing to do the hard work of changing thought processes she's been using since early childhood. It is rare for a BPDer to be willing to do that.

 

If you've not already done so, I suggest you read my posts at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/275289-crazy-i-think-but-i-love-her-anyway#post3398735. I also suggest you read a BPDfamily's article #9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. The other articles at that website are excellent too.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Downtown

[dolita]

based on your behavior right now i can tell that you are not emotionally stable, writing an essay on a forum hoping we can satisfy your curiosity, and you wanna dissect her behaviors? save yourself first before you can save the situation, who can save you? us? psychiatrist? God? no one but you, and only you can save yourself.

get up and get strong

[GoBroncs1983]

Thank you, Downtown. I’m seeing more and more traits with my ExGF as you point them out.

 

For instance, she is not a binge spender (we never had that kind of money), but she regularly buys clothes, shoes, accessories like earrings and scarves (what woman doesn’t), but usually returned about 75% of what she buys within a week. She would even tell me as she bought something that she was probably going to return it. I always figured that it was due to hating her body – that nothing looked good on her, to her. I can’t tell you how many times she would tell me that she had “nothing to wear” to even a simple outing like class, or work. For a night out with me or friends, she would freak out and want to buy a new outfit, and rarely find something and usually break down in tears that nothing fit her when she went to clothing stores. I figured it was just a female trait, ha.

 

Something else – she always wanted to be with me, or should I say wanted me to be with her. Even when we lived together, she didn’t like me to go into our bedroom and watch TV. If I sat outside on our balcony, she would ask me a question or have me come inside for a minor reason. She would want to go to the grocery store together, if I wanted to run to Taco Bell for 15 minutes, she would want to ride along. When we would go to say, Target, she would want me to stay with her as she looked at makeup or things I would have no interest in. I get most couples shop together, but it felt extreme. She didn’t freak out if I wanted to go walk around on my own, but due to that need to be together, it wouldn’t last long. I always thought it was because she had no working car and just wanted to go out as much as possible, to substitute that freedom. Then, within a week of getting her car two months ago, she has a new boyfriend. Go figure.

 

Her mood swings were usually swift and short, but would snowball. She would see something on Facebook that would irritate her, which would then turn into how dumb people are, and turn into how terrible America is, and she has to move to another country. Not hysterical about it, but bothered enough to look up cost of living/apartments in different cities and towns, not seriously considering it. She went out with friends from work to a karaoke bar and would sing (amazing for having such social anxiety), but would refuse to sing for me. But she loved TELLING me about it.

 

The most memorable example/mood swing/tantrum that was directed at me was when she saw two women in bikinis at the pool with a photographer, which turned into objectifying women, which turned into pornography is bad, which turned into I was a terrible person for watching porn, which turned into making me swear (I lied, ha) that I would never watch porn again, so she wouldn’t break up with me. The argument lasted most of the day (via text) as I thought she was being absurd, but she was to the point of breakup, so I conceded. Silly, isn’t it?

 

She has always had a plan – get her degree, then move away to a big city (like NYC) and go to grad school, and her world would be so much better because she isn’t living in our crappy city anymore. Well, earlier this year she had to change her degree program and now Grad School is a long shot. And recently she started speaking of “living in the present” and says she doesn’t want to think about the future. And then she broke up with me for a 22 year old with no money, no job, and two roommates. Has to be a connection, right?

 

I’ve read (sparingly) that BPDers will break up with you, and then go find someone else, simply because they fear you will do it first and abandon them. When I found out she was seeing someone (she didn’t tell me, I saw a Facebook post referencing it and called her on it), I poured my heart out to her and begged for her to come back, and she didn’t. I hadn’t started dating anyone yet. She acted surprised that I still liked her. We were broken up, after all. It shouldn’t have been a surprise that she found someone, and I could date too! Rubbing it in, I think. Once she saw that I DID care, why didn’t she come back? Aren’t I a safer bet against abandonment than a guy she met last week?

 

Downtown, can you comment on what is currently happening (in addition to the above if you want)? I was talking regularly with my ex even after we both started dating other people, she was telling me about her new guy and his faults (she, strangely, would grill me about my sex life with my girl), we made plans to hang out and go to dinner (as friends) as she was becoming increasingly more annoyed by him, then I broke up with one girl and started dating another a couple of days later, and she went off the deep end and said never to speak to her again, and that it was unfair to her new guy if she talked to me.

 

When she “broke up” with me numerous times, she would usually act like we were done, unfriend me on Facebook, wish me the best (very fast emotional reaction each time), but when I would reach out to her, she would soften, continue to talk to me, and we would eventually reconcile. She doesn’t seem to be doing that now. Granted, she has another guy, but when she says “I don’t hate you. But I don’t want to talk right now” this morning, obviously she needs space, but should I count on her to contact me eventually? She went from texting me every day (like usual) to chopping me out. I can’t imagine that she’s sitting there not wanting to talk to me.

 

Plus, her new guy is passive and “normal” and doesn’t give her constant attention like I did/do. He goes days without texting her, doesn’t call her, hasn’t really come to see her. The bulk of their relationship is the three days they spend going to classes together, that’s when she stays the night, that’s when she says he acts like he’s into her. As a BPDer, shouldn’t she be angry that he isn’t giving her complete attention? I mean, she complains to me, but doesn’t talk to him about it. In fact, I feel like she is bending over backwards for him, which is in line with the infatuation period, but if she isn’t getting the emotional support she needs, why is she sticking around, and why especially is she eliminating me, a guy that WILL give her that attention (even as a friend) from her life?

 

I have told her I’m available, that I love and care about her, and usually she will talk to me once she hears that. Not this time. It's like something snapped in her, emotionally. I know I should act like I don’t care, but if she is a BPDer, wouldn’t that drive her away?

 

I’m usually the one who has to reach out to her, but she doesn’t seem receptive this time, and it kind of scares me. Yes, yes, I want to get over her and not even care about her (it would help my emotional state a lot), but at this moment, I’m fearing I won’t hear from her again. She has never seemed this distant. Is it going to take a big fight/argument with the new guy or the big change in December (no more classes together) before I may hear from her again? I know that it's impossible to tell, but after three and a half years of constant (daily) contact, it's startling to me that she can break it off, cold turkey.

 

Finally, is it common for the significant other to inherit traits of a BPDer, and keep them? I see a lot of what you are talking about and realize I exhibited those traits as well throughout our relationship, when I hadn’t before. She was much more intense than I was, but I would do the same things to her at times. Is it just residual runoff from being with someone like that, you have to adapt your behaviors to theirs? I certainly don’t want to behave like that with my new girlfriend, and I’m already getting anxious when she isn’t as THERE as my ex was.

Edited October 11, 2013 by GoBroncs1983

[Downtown]

Downtown, can you comment on what is currently happening .... should I count on her to contact me eventually?

You cannot count on an unstable person for anything. Hence, if she is a BPDer, that is an outcome you cannot rely on. It nonetheless is likely that a BPDer will recontact you and try to pull you back into the toxic relationship.

She went from texting me every day (like usual) to chopping me out. I can’t imagine that she’s sitting there not wanting to talk to me.

If she is a BPDer, she likely loved you in the same immature way that a four year old is able to love. What she desires the most, however, is the relationship you had with her. Significantly, numerous men are able to provide that same relationship. That is, BPDers generally desire the R/S more than they do the personality features of the person they are in love with.

 

The reason is that they have such a weak, fragile sense of who they are that they desire to be in a R/S with a person having a strong personality -- who will ground them and center them, keeping them from shooting off in all directions. If you find this hard to believe, consider how intolerant she was of your personal characteristics. She was always trying to control you and change you. She found you acceptable to be around only as long as you were behaving as she expected -- i.e., were walking on eggshells to avoid triggering her anger.

 

In that way, you gave up large parts of your own personality. If you stay away from her for several months, I believe you will be surprised how rapidly the "old you" -- i.e., the REAL YOU -- returns. My point, then, is that she likely loved the role you played far more than the "real you," which is why you rarely were "yourself" when around her (e.g., making the absurd promise of never watching porn again). Significantly, another guy -- even the one living with two roommates -- can play that role if he is willing to walk on eggshells like you did.

I feel like she is bending over backwards for him, which is in line with the infatuation period, but if she isn’t getting the emotional support she needs, why is she sticking around, and why especially is she eliminating me, a guy that WILL give her that attention (even as a friend) from her life?

The closer you get to a BPDer and the more love you show, the WORSE you will be treated. The reason, as I noted earlier, is that her two fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. This means that, as you back away from her, you will usually trigger her abandonment fear -- with the result that she will do the love bombing to pull you back (as you've already seen many times before).

 

As you draw near to her, however, you will start triggering her engulfment fear because BPDers have such weak egos that they cannot tolerate intimacy very long. The result will be that she will feel suffocated and engulfed by your strong personality, making her feel like you are dominating and controlling her. She therefore will create a fight -- over absolutely nothing at all -- to push you away.

 

Hence, while the other BF is close to her, eventually she will feel engulfed and push him away. At the same time, she likely will have a strong desire to pull you back into the toxic relationship. That is not yet occurring (if she is a BPDer) only because her infatuation is temporarily holding her two fears at bay, making her perceive of him as the perfect lover.

I know I should act like I don’t care, but if she is a BPDer, wouldn’t that drive her away?

As I explained above and at the link I provided, you will drive her away NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. Indeed, you've already done it at least five times. If she is a BPDer, she will be unhappy when you love her (the threat of engulfment is scary) and when you move away to give her breathing space (the threat of abandonment is scary). Hence, you lose if you adore her and lose when you move away. This means that, if you are foolish enough to take her back, you will continue in her endless cycle of push-you-away and (when she feels like it) pull-you-back.

Yes, yes, I want to get over her and not even care about her (it would help my emotional state a lot), but at this moment, I’m fearing I won’t hear from her again.

Silly man. If she has strong BPD traits as you suspect, you should fear HER RETURN, not her silence. Such a relationship is both toxic and addictive. Trying to break away is akin to trying to go cold turkey from heroine use.

Is it common for the significant other to inherit traits of a BPDer, and keep them? I see a lot of what you are talking about and realize I exhibited those traits as well throughout our relationship, when I hadn’t before.

Yes, this is common for anyone who has been dating a BPDer for several years. Acquiring some of the BPDer's bad behaviors (e.g., acting out and over sensitivity) is so common that the abused partners of BPDers have given it a name: "picking up fleas." The fleas will leave, however, after you've had several months to heal.

 

What will stay are the BPD traits you've had ever since childhood. As I noted in my first post, every adult occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder." At a low level, these traits generally are beneficial and essential to your survival, which is why we all rely so heavily on them in childhood. They become a problem only when they are sufficiently strong to prevent us from properly regulating our emotions, resulting in a distorted perception of other peoples' intentions. GB, all of this is better explained in those two links I provided.

[GoBroncs1983]

As several of you have said, I've droned on long enough about all of this. It may seem manic and obsessive, but at the core of all of my feelings is I had a girl that was (seemingly) completely devoted to me for three years (breakups included) and then swiftly went for another guy a week after meeting him. The shock was akin to seeing a drug free best friend become addicted to heroin overnight.

 

I think she has BPD, and will read up on it more. Her abandonment issues are center stage - she broke up with me earlier this year (one of the five) after we went to a concert and I just wanted to go home and not stay with her (had to work the next morning). She broke up with me (final time) in July after I hadn't gone over to her place in a week. It was inconceivable that I wouldn't want to be with her 24/7, too. Every breakup was centered around how I seemingly didn't care about her anymore. She cut off contact with me last week (and last month) when I started dating someone else - both times she kept referring to me falling in love with said new girl and not caring about her anymore, and how the new girl won't want me talking to her. She's doing it to me before I could do it to her, protecting herself. The issue is I wouldn't have. One line she told me a couple of weeks ago that has stuck with me: "I never want you to get to the point where you don't care about me anymore." She sees something that may lead to that (new girl), so she cuts me out before it could happen.

 

I honestly didn't see much of her engulfment fear….she was just fine being with me all of the time, wanted attention and adoration. She thrived on it, and when I wasn't giving her enough (for a normal person enough for her would be 200% too much), she would push me away. She never, ever needed space. And that was a lot of why I didn't like spending time with her after we moved out of our apartment. Every time I saw her, I felt like I had to turn my love up 500%, beyond the normal love I would show her, because she had to have it, all of the time, and we always had to have sex, or there must be something wrong. I couldn't just be myself or relax, I had to stimulate her emotionally, 24/7. I didn't necessarily have to behave like a completely different person, just turn up my affection ten fold.

 

I see a lot of what Downtown is saying with this new guy. She complains about him, but sticks with him, because he gives her a guaranteed place to stay and have that "relationship" aspect. She hates that he doesn't ask her to do things (show the love), but she knows she can just ask him and he will say yes. Guaranteed attention if she wants it. I was wishy washy about spending time with her near the end; this guy has literally given her an open invitation to stay over whenever she wants. She is always looking at the negatives, however. She always did that with me with anything - us, school, work - the worst possible outcome, then she would get an A on the test or her boss really DIDN'T hate her. Same with this guy. She complains, then spends the night and feels refreshed. But like Downtown said, it lasts a few days and she's back to worrying.

 

She's having a mid 20's crisis - she had to downsize her degree program and now grad school isn't a guarantee. She always planned to get her degree, get accepted to grad school in another city, and be on her way. Now, it's all a question mark. And now, she's dating a 22 year old with no money and no job, and talking about living in the present for once. Ties it all together.

 

Overall, she's a good person, but stunted emotionally. I know it has to do with two divorced parents who act 20 years younger than they are - how can you mature around that? It would be difficult. I'd like to have her in my life, but not as a girlfriend that I am required to babysit emotionally. Talking to her over the last month after we both found someone else was actually refreshing in a way, as I wasn't required to solve her problems for her anymore.

 

I appreciate all of the honest and blunt replies. Thanks.

Edited October 12, 2013 by GoBroncs1983

[stillafool]

Dude, you are clearly not over your ex. Why does any of this matter since you two are broken up and you are suppose to have a new gf? Remember you cannot be friends with your ex because you still have feelings for her. You have to be indifferent towards her to be a friend. What you are doing now is unfair to your new gf. Get over her or let your new gf go because whether you realize it or not you are cheating.

[Downtown]

I honestly didn't see much of her engulfment fear….she was just fine being with me all of the time, wanted attention and adoration.

GB, she wasn't "just fine" being with you when the glass of orange juice was spilled. And she wasn't just fine when she stomped out on five occassions. I nonetheless agree with you that the engulfment fear can be hard to see. After all, BPDers are so clingy and wanting to be close to you most of the time.

 

Moreover, the BPDers themselves never say "I feel engulfed and suffocated by you." Instead, their subconscious minds protect them from seeing too much of reality by projecting the painful feeling onto you. The result is that the BPDers usually are generally convinced, at a conscious level, that the pain and discomfort is all coming from you.

 

The result is that the abandonment fear will show itself when the BPDer becomes very irritated with you over nothing at all. This is why you likely experienced her starting numerous fights over issues so minor (if not entirely imaginary) that neither of you could recall, days later, what the fight had been about.

 

Although the BPDer is not consciously aware of it, the real purpose of starting the fight was to push you away because she was feeling controlled and dominated. When a person has a weak, fragile self image, she does not consciously think "His strong personality is making me feel like I am disappearing into thin air." Rather, she simply has a powerful, irrational feeling of being controlled and forced to do things. Although that feeling is irrational, it is so intense that she is convinced it MUST be true. This, then, is why most of the absurd arguments begin.

[GoBroncs1983]

stillafool, you are correct. I am not over her, despite having a new girlfriend. I want to be, and understanding how she went so easily to another guy will help me. I will say this, if my ex texted me right now asking to go to lunch tomorrow, I would say no. I would not jump. There is a part of me that wants to be friends with her, that's the part of me that isn't over her yet. There is a larger part of me that wants to fall for my new girlfriend more and more, and not care about my ex; to stop hating that we aren't talking. When she texts me again in two months (or two weeks or whenever), I want to be able to go "Eh", like most relationship recovery stories. That's where I want to be, despite the essays I have typed out here. It helps me process it. It's like having a best friend that you thought you knew commit suicide. You're looking for answers alone.

 

Downtown, a light bulb (about the seventh) went off when you talked about her "subconsious mind." When I have asked her to explain how all of this has happened, she will give me a very simple response. "We talked in class, he asked me out, and I said yes. That's how it works!" To me, it's no different than saying "I walked in, the heroin was there, so I injected it, it's that simple." There are reasons you were drawn to that guy/heroin, it's not just that it was available.

 

She says she is being honest with me, and I feel like she THINKS she is, but obviously there is more to her decision making than "Guy asked me out, so yeah, I'll go on a date." However, she doesn't realize what is happening, her subconscious triggers a response that FEELS natural and reasonable, but it isn't. Or she knows what she did (I'm worthless, but he makes me feel good) and is giving a political talking point answer so she doesn't look bad. I mean, yeah, in six months if she's broken up with this guy, will she tell me "I was struggling to get over you and it felt good to get attention from him", sure. She isn't going to reveal her true feelings right now, because it would invalidate her current relationship, even if it's just me that knows. But I think her subconscious mind has trained her to think that it all is so simple, too.

 

I think her abandonment fear came into play somewhat with this new guy, too. She and I (broken up but still friends) went out for sushi on Sunday, and she gave me an extra long hug at the end and told me she missed me. I didn't really recripocate. Two days later, this new guy asks her out, the very next day, they go on a date and she sleeps with him, three days after she went out with me. Again, I don't think she sat there and thought it through, her subconsious just triggered a response and she jumped with this new guy. At least that's how I want to think about it. Most people would just say "Dude, she wanted to **** another guy, it's that simple", but really, I think she had a ton of mixed emotions stirring in her, and still does. She isn't that type of girl, she is acting out, and I want to know why, hence this thread.

Edited October 13, 2013 by GoBroncs1983

[stillafool]

I don't think she is acting out. I think she is going through what alot of girls her age go through. Dating around, having sex, checking out her options and just having fun. That's unfortunately what most girls do at her age. She may think you are too serious and no fun. You have a girlfriend and you need to stop inviting your ex out for sushi and stop all contact. It isn't your business what and why she is doing the things she does. If she wants to be with you she will tell you (so you can reject her) but she hasn't. If the girl you are seeing now can't hold your interest enough to get over your ex you need to let her go. You are cheating.

[GoBroncs1983]

Going out for sushi happened three days before she started seeing her new guy (first date, sex), that's why I brought it up. We were "broken up" but she was loving and affectionate toward me that day, which made the revelation about a week later that she was seeing someone new all the more painful. Other than one text (which I posted about) and one three sentence e-mail, I've had no contact with her over the last two weeks. Other than a random encounter at a grocery store three weeks ago, I haven't seen her in a month and a half.

 

Are the feelings still there? Yes, but they are fading. As I outlined to Downtown, the girl I am dating now is a snail to my ex's cheetah in terms of speed-of-relationship. It's what I meant when I said it's hard adjusting to a "normal" girl. We've been on only a handful of dates, she sparingly texts or messages me, it's like hitting a traffic jam after having clear highways for four years. My Ex would text me all day, every day, want to see me every day, want to have sex every day. There was no pause button with her. Even when we were "broken up" four times, she was still on top of me.

 

Over the last few days, I've taken the BPD traits that Downtown outlined and put them up against my relationship with my Ex, and it's amazing how many more instances/traits I see. For instance, looking back on an old text thread from a month ago (when we were still talking), she became furious at me mentioning the girl I was seeing at the time, and very quickly "split (me) black" and used "always" and "never" in a negative way about a dozen times in quick succession. When she cut off contact with me two weeks ago, it was right after she told me the frustrations with her new guy and I told her she was silly not to take a stand with him, and it came off as controlling. Needless to say, I have no idea why she is currently mad at me and doesn't want to talk. Engulfment fear, 100%. Creating a fight over something minor, creating drama, and pushing me away.

 

Finally, she told me about three weeks ago that she's grown tired of Facebook and Twitter and barely even accesses either site anymore. It shouldn't come as a surprise that her new BF never uses either site. Taking on characteristics. No wonder she slept with him immediately, hooked him. And he told her he was falling in love? Is he falling in love with HER, or the experience?

 

I admit I sit here and think about her, but not in a "I miss her and want her back so badly" way. I think of what is happening with her new guy, is she experiencing the same fears/traits/actions with him? I want to see the same happen with him, because it would validate that I wasn't just a loser that drove her away to someone better. I know he isn't better than me in virtually any category, but I still wonder if she will fall in love with him and ride that infatuation period a bit more. Even though she was already complaining about him to me, I can see him stepping out on those eggshells (he's young, naive, and probably wants to keep the lust/sex/whatever) and it will just keep going and going and going.

 

Frankly, I'd love to hear from her that he dumped her and she is devastated (love bombing me), but something tells me she will dump him about three times in the next year before moving onto another unsuspecting culprit.

Edited October 16, 2013 by GoBroncs1983

[GoBroncs1983]

An update on my situation:

 

I attempted to post here a few months ago, but it said too much time had passed and this topic was now closed. I guess not.

 

And, I guess I'm also a masochist.

 

My Ex and I began talking again in October, shortly after my last post here. My relationship ended around that time - my decision. I actually dated two girls during this brief time. My ex was still dating the same guy. She is resistant to talking to me, but doesn't stop, and eventually she talks to me (text) regularly - except, of course, when she is with the other guy. We make plans to hang out after about a week of this. We sleep together. She cheats on new guy with me. For the next month, she dates both of us (triangulation). Looking back, I can't believe I put up with it. In November, she suddenly decides she wants me and only me. He is too much of a boy, she says - too into his iPad and video games and isn't doing anything after he graduates. She doesn't want to break up with him until the end of the semester to avoid awkwardness (give me a break) but finally does a week later. She hasn't spoken to him since, and cuts him off when he tries to contact her months later. He's gone.

 

We rekindled our relationship. It feels like a fresh start. We speak about moving in together again. She speaks of MARRIAGE. She speaks of HAVING CHILDREN, two things she has been against since I met her. She is more engaging with my daughter (she has never treated her cruelly, but has let me known she doesn't like kids) and asks her how she wants her bedroom decorated in our new apartment. She attends the spring 2014 semester at school, no issues.

 

She gets a new job. Her hours are cut. She's going back to school next month, and financially, we can't afford an apartment. Her mom breaks the lease on their apartment and gives her 60-day move out notice. Suddenly, my gf is literally going to be homeless the same week she goes back to school. Her credit cards are maxed out. She always has little money at the end of every pay period. She's struggling financially.

 

We argued in July about a guy she works with that she can't stop talking about. I fear he's just like the 30's guy she had a crush on. Old resentment comes up on my end. It's a bad argument.

 

The next day, she is now completely devoted to moving away as soon as she finishes college in December. She wants to move to New York, wants to go to grad school. She says there is nothing for her here, and I can't be part of her plans, because I have "a kid." She now says she doesn't want to live with my daughter. She now wants to break up again.

 

She talks to me off and on for a while, keeps cutting me off, saying she's too dependent on me in her life, whatever that means. She begins hanging out with people from work, the aforementioned guy being part of that group. Surprise surprise, he tells her he likes her, now that we are broken up. She tells me she likes HIM, but doesn't want a relationship right now. She says they have talked about it. Triangulation!

 

She ends up moving to a different apartment with her mother. She never was going to be homeless, but sure made it seem that way. And it triggered this flight mentality that makes her suddenly want to move to NYC as soon as possible. We were touring apartments in May. Quite the swing.

 

We hung out last week and slept together again. She keeps reminding me that it cannot work out because she wants to move and I can't go with her. But she keeps talking to me like normal. I personally think she likes this new guy and wants to see what happens, and if anything does happen, hey, she DID break up with me, so it can't be cheating, right? Of course, she said she can't be with anyone because she's moving, and that's why WE broke up, but now, it's something different.

 

I posted at length about this on another forum, because again, this topic was saying it was closed. There are more replies pertaining to my current situation with her on that forum. Read if you would like to:

 

http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=230167.0

 

The replies I have gotten there are good, but I felt the ones here (Downtown particularly) helped me understand her behavior more. Again, I know I shouldn't be with her, but understanding her mental makeup is what I really want to find. I know I need to move on.

 

I will admit that I took some liberties with my story last fall when I originally posted here, in case she somehow (I don't know how she would) saw my posts. My daughter is going to be 10 this year, not 7, my ex is 24, and I'm 32. We have been dating (off and on) for 4.5 years. Everything posted in the above link is correct, as is 99% of what I posted here. I just changed ages around to keep it more anonymous.

 

I know I shouldn't be bothering with her. Unlike last fall (and the other five breakups) I'm not pining for her to decide to be with me again. I see that she is mentally unstable and if she can STILL find reasons to break up with me after last fall, she always will. But she's been a big part of my life for five years, and I guess I can't let that go. Or at least until the next girl comes along.

Edited August 25, 2014 by GoBroncs1983

[Downtown]

GB, welcome back to the LoveShack forum. Thanks for returning to give us an update. I was wondering how you and your daughter are doing.

Understanding her mental makeup is what I really want to find.

As we discussed last year, your GF has the emotional development of a four year old if she has strong BPD traits as you suspect. This could explain, then, why you are seeing her rely so heavily on the primitive defense mechanisms used by young children. These include projection, denial, magical thinking, black-white thinking, and temper tantrums. What part of this behavior do you not understand?

 

She's been a big part of my life for five years, and I guess I can't let that go.

Sure you can. But you are choosing not to. Your repeated decisions to remain in this toxic relationship is harming three people. First, and most importantly, it is harming your 9-year-old daughter -- whom your GF is jealous of and doesn't like to have around -- to have an emotionally unstable woman as part of your immediate family. Your D is being taught that this dysfunction relationship is what a marital relationship is supposed to look like. And her self image is being damaged by your GF's cool treatment of her.

 

Second, your enabling behavior (i.e., the walking on eggshells) is harming your GF because, as long as you continue protecting her from the logical consequences of her own bad behaviors, you are destroying her only opportunity to have to confront her issues and learn how to manage them. And, third, you are harming yourself by returning -- for the fifth time -- to that toxic relationship. You are lowering your own self esteem and, at the same time, are reducing your personal boundaries. On top of that, you are wasting precious time that could be better spent by searching out a mature woman with whom to establish a relationship.

[GoBroncs1983]

I certainly can't disagree with the majority of what you said.

 

I will say that my daughter has been completely protected and oblivious to my issues with this woman. I'm just going to call her my GF for the sake of things, even though it's quite muddy. Last fall, she thought my GF was just busy with class - she knows nothing about the two other women I briefly dated. She knows nothing of the numerous breakups, and very seldom have I ever fought with my GF in front of her. I will also say that my GF has always been nice and treated my daughter well. She has taken her swimming at the pool, and watched her while I worked when we lived together. She isn't a mom, and I've never asked her to be, but when my daughter is present, everyone gets along and there are no signs of trouble.

 

Of course, behind the scenes, my GF is telling me how she hates kids and can't live with one. It's like it bubbles up when she wants to break up. It's her go to excuse. So while the issues are always there, they are internal and not public in front of my daughter. I certainly would not stand for any mistreatment of her, and I think my GF knows that, and she has never made her feelings known to my daughter.

 

I'm not defending her - how she feels is completely unacceptable, but I just wanted to clarify that if it all ended today, my daughter would know nothing of the issues.

 

My GF has been quite blunt about her issues after this last breakup. She usually will find a way to blame me - if only I had come over more, if only we didn't fight so much, etc. She has plainly said this time around that she doesn't know why she does this and I deserve better. It's the closest she has come to admitting she has some kind of emotional issue.

 

In return, I have told her exactly what you said - that I should kick her out of my life because of how she has treated me, and I should have dozens of times before. She has never had to feel any repercussions for her actions. I told her that on the phone the other day and she broke down crying, saying I was right, she doesn't deserve me.

 

Yet, it continues.

 

Which brings me to what keeps me up at night - I read about BPD, and she has some of the traits, but she is the saddest BPDer I've ever seen. There are no VIOLENT tantrums, no extreme reactions like throwing things, self harm, etc. I read testimonials of people that lived with a BPD partner and while my experience hasn't been easy street, it sure seems better than the examples I read about.

 

I feel like she has a lot of pain that she internalizes, and that I'm in the line of fire when her life isn't going well, which is most of the time for her.

 

Unlike other BPDers I read about, she is a sweet person, and when her traits surface, they are more selfish and without malice. It's hard to describe. I know I've listed so many things about her and I see a lot of BPD in her, but I really wonder if it's all just immaturity with relationships. She hasn't been with a lot of guys, and I think she feels validation when any non-repulsive guy treats her well. She always acts like she's missing out on something.

 

I know I deserve better. And if another woman came along tomorrow, I would take that opportunity. She certainly has.

[SoThatHappened]

There are so many similarities in the girl you've been describing to my recent ex. It's been nearly 3 months since the breakup, and almost as long in NC.

 

I'm 34. She was 22 (now 23).

 

I too walked on eggshells for 7 months. I didn't know if I was coming or going, I just wanted to keep her "happy" because I could sense that a switch could just go off in an instant. I always felt that I had to keep her from boiling over, like the incredible Hulk.

 

She would say and do the sweetest things in the world! The adoration she had for me was over the top. Even less than 24 hours before she started an argument out of nowhere and admitted to fooling around with a co-worker.

 

The best thing I ever did was run away from her, and that's the best advice I can give you. I'll always love that girl, but it is way too much for you, me, anyone, to deal with.

 

The internalization of pain that you mentioned rings a bell with me. If I ever posed a question as to why she did something wrong/immoral in her past, she would just shut down. Literally, she'd run into a corner of another room and not say a word. I never got an answer as to why she did things in the past. She could never confront her own failures or find a way to soothe herself.

 

My ex was also a "sweet" person, as you mentioned about yours. But only to those (as Downtown mentioned) who didn't pose the threat of being something serious in her life. She was a blast around friends, family, coworkers, etc.

 

My ex also didn't show any remorse for the things she'd done. She also said she didn't deserve me at the end.

 

I can familiarize when you said you would get blamed if only you "had come over more, etc". I got ripped up one side and down the other, out of the blue, for not being able to make her sister's boyfriend's baseball game. Normal people don't get irate at something like that.

 

As with your ex, mine didn't have violent tendencies or self-harm, per se. However, I think she exhibited a form of self-harm in getting many tattoos, some of the biggest and dumbest I've ever seen. And she always wanted more. It made her look dirty, IMO. She had beautiful skin, only to be tainted by ugly ink.

 

When I found out about BPD, mainly when Downtown responded to one of my threads, I initially thought that's what she had. Then I doubted it a little, and couldn't really pin-point it. But the behaviors your ex and mine have exhibited definitely fall within the realm of what is considered BPD.

 

Whether it's able to be diagnosed in your ex shouldn't matter to you anymore.

 

Just run. For your sake and mainly your daughter's sake.

 

It's hard man, I know. I fell hard for my ex too because of her BPD traits. But you'll be better off if you can stay away from this woman.

Edited August 26, 2014 by SoThatHappened