Explain my Ex's Behavior...just want to understand

[mightycpa]

STH:

 

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Edited August 26, 2014 by mightycpa

[Downtown]

She has plainly said this time around that she doesn't know why she does this and I deserve better. It's the closest she has come to admitting she has some kind of emotional issue.

If she is a BPDer, what you're describing is called a "moment of clarity." My BPDer exW had such moments, wherein she would experience a burst of self awareness, perhaps five times during our 15 year marriage. They typically lasted a day or two and, being transitory, changed absolutely nothing.

 

Unlike other BPDers I read about, she is a sweet person, and when her traits surface, they are more selfish and without malice.

You seem to be confusing BPD traits with those of narcissists and sociopaths. BPDers generally are good-hearted, well-intentioned people. Yet, because they are unstable, they will flip between splitting you white (adoring you) and splitting you black (devaluing you). Most BPDers I have met are "sweet people" as you say and they exhibit a warmth of expression that usually is seen only in young children. Like your GF and STH's exGF, my BPDer exW is sweet and caring with most people she meets. The result is that most of these women are very easy to like and easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both had full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.

 

She has some of the [bPD] traits, but she is the saddest BPDer I've ever seen. There are no VIOLENT tantrums, no extreme reactions like throwing things, self harm, etc.

I agree with STH that the behaviors you describe are consistent with BPD warning signs. Although most BPDers direct their anger outward in temper tantrums and verbal abuse, a portion of them direct it inward -- punishing and controlling you not by being verbally abusive but, rather, by becoming cold and withholding of all affection. They use passive aggression.

 

I mention this because nearly all descriptions of BPD you will find online describe only the outwardly hostile, raging, abusive form -- which is inconsistent with your description of your GF's behavior. Hence, if she has strong BPD traits, she would be called a "waif" BPDer (aka, a "quiet" BPDer). I've not seen any statistics on it but I would guess that these quiet BPDers account for perhaps 10% to 15% of all BPDers.

 

The best article I've seen about waif BPDers is therapist Shari Schreiber's description at Rescuing The Woman Who Doesn't Want To Be Saved. I caution that Schreiber confuses BPD with naricissim and sociopathy and thus fails to distinguish among them. Her article on BPDer waifs, however, is quite insightful. Another good article (which emphasizes the cold nature of some quiet BPDers) is Mahari's article at The Quiet Acting-In Borderline and The Silent Treatment.

 

Of those two, GB, I believe Schreiber's description is closer to what you've said about your GF's behavior. I say this because the "waif" BPDer is generally very unhappy and is frequently portraying herself as the victim ("oh, poor little me"). It therefore is not surprising that waifs are very passive aggressive in expressing their anger and are prone to suffering from illnesses like fibromyalgia, which frequently migrates from one part of the body to another.

[SoThatHappened]

STH:

Is that because you can't believe I stayed with her?

 

If it is, I've come to the same realization that I know GoBroncs will come to if he let's it.

 

And that is, "WTF was I thinking?!"

 

I hope you get there too, GB. Relationships are NOT supposed to be like that.

[SoThatHappened]

I re-read this old post and wanted to comment on a few things, as it fits my ex to a tee:

 

For instance, she is not a binge spender (we never had that kind of money), but she regularly buys clothes, shoes, accessories like earrings and scarves (what woman doesn’t), but usually returned about 75% of what she buys within a week. She would even tell me as she bought something that she was probably going to return it.

My ex had no money and a 2 year old daughter to "support." Yet she went shopping ALL THE TIME just to return most of it, as you mentioned your ex did. She justified it by saying that she returned most of it, but she still ended up spending probably $50 per week or more when she couldn't even support herself or her daughter.

 

Something else – she always wanted to be with me, or should I say wanted me to be with her. Even when we lived together, she didn’t like me to go into our bedroom and watch TV. If I sat outside on our balcony, she would ask me a question or have me come inside for a minor reason. She would want to go to the grocery store together, if I wanted to run to Taco Bell for 15 minutes, she would want to ride along. When we would go to say, Target, she would want me to stay with her as she looked at makeup or things I would have no interest in. I get most couples shop together, but it felt extreme. She didn’t freak out if I wanted to go walk around on my own, but due to that need to be together, it wouldn’t last long.

Same exact situation. If my ex got to my house earlier (she basically lived with me for 4 months) she would be almost catatonic by the time I got home because she had to be by herself, and I'm guessing, with her own thoughts. That was probably hell for her, because she can't deal with "fixing" or contemplating anything.

 

If I wanted to run to Walgreens, literally a quarter of a mile away, she would get testy that I was "leaving her."

 

She wouldn't go to the mall by herself. She wanted me to always go, and she knew I hated shopping. So, I went, and I did my own thing, picked out my own stuff, but it was another red flag that she couldn't be alone.

 

She also didn't like that I would watch TV after she had to go to bed. She had to get up at 5 AM. I didn't have to drag my @ss outta bed until 7, so I'd stay up later. That made her feel abandoned.

 

Her mood swings were usually swift and short, but would snowball. She would see something on Facebook that would irritate her, which would then turn into how dumb people are...

Yep. My ex said Facebook was "stupid" in the beginning when I said I didn't like it. That was mirroring me. Then, she got back into it, and would flip over nothing that should have mattered to her.

 

And then she broke up with me for a 22 year old with no money, no job, and two roommates. Has to be a connection, right?

I've seen the guys my ex dated before me and internet stalked the guy she was fooling around with. None of them are good-looking or had anything in their life together. All losers. I think that's so she could play the victim card. She couldn't do it with me though, and I think that drove her crazy and also caused her to stay with me twice as long as she's stayed with anyone else. Maybe that's why your ex has been with you so long.

 

The guys they run away with make no sense. That's why it never lasts. Don't worry, she will be done with the current guy in no time. You just need to be a ghost when that happens or else you risk falling back into the same trap.

 

I’ve read (sparingly) that BPDers will break up with you, and then go find someone else, simply because they fear you will do it first and abandon them.

I think that those with BPD traits fear that abandonment so much that they setup the rebound prior to the breakup so they're not left alone.

 

I’m fearing I won’t hear from her again.

I hope you'll soon be HOPING that you don't hear from her again.

 

A relationship will never be "easy", but it should never be the way it is with a possible BPD'er.

 

Do anything and everything you can to completely separate yourself from this person. Like I said, become a ghost to her, whatever it takes. Work on yourself and find someone you can be in a healthy relationship with.

Edited August 27, 2014 by SoThatHappened

[GoBroncs1983]

Downtown, I read Shari Schreiber's article, and while anyone can find similarities if they try hard enough, several things startled me.

 

"Any male who grew up having to love an unhappy, discontent or depressed mother will likely be attracted to a BPD Waif."

 

My mother grew up with an alcoholic father who physically abused her brothers (a tough love thing, and NEVER my mom or her mother physically) and my mom still shows the scars to this day. Essentially, after marrying my father, she was so afraid of being her controlled mother that she turned into her controlling father. She isn't abusive in any way, but hates not being in control. She has struggled with her weight my entire life, and while she was an extremely loving stay at home mom with me, I saw the signs of her past repeatedly. She still picks fights when she doesn't get her way.

 

Now, I don't want to get into my mom's issues, but that quote from Schreiber literally made me say "Wow" as I read it. It may explain my codependency and why I'm struggling with my GF. Just food for thought. My GF will show doom and gloom constantly (she will turn running out of eggs at home into a hours long pity party) but when I call her on it, she says she isn't that bad - and I'm overreacting to her negativity ("Just because I ran out of eggs doesn't mean I want to hang myself! Calm down!") - well, she certainly acts like she would.

 

STH, thank you for sharing your experiences. I will say that my GF is less clingy now that she has her own car (she didn't until a year ago). I've left her apartment to go get food, etc. without her, and since she can drive herself to go shopping, she doesn't ask me to go with her anymore. Perhaps that was the reason, or maybe that part of her BPD subsided. I don't know.

 

Your line about having the rebound ready to go at the time of breakup fits her to a T, at least this time around. This guy she works with (who has now admitted to having feelings for her now that we "broke up") has been following her like a puppy for months - first in class at college, then he applied at the same place she works. Of course, he's a football player who lived in a sorority - totally not her type, but he's that nerdy young guy like who she dated last fall - easy to take advantage of.

 

The day before she wanted to break up (again) I got upset with her for talking about him too much. I said it was obvious that he liked her, and that she probably liked him, too. She was adamant that wasn't the case, that she loved me, etc. I brought up everything she has done to me in the past, and well, made her feel like crap. The next morning, she was moving to NY and wanted to break up with me since I can't go with her. Then she started hanging out with him. Of course. Triangulation - and she loves the attention, too.

 

I appreciate the blunt feedback. I know that I'm not going to spend the rest of my life with this woman, but seeing her for what she really is will help me eventually move on. I truly think I will. Everything that was posted here last fall HAS helped me after we reconciled. When she would display BPD traits, I would acknowledge them (to myself) and not get worn down or tied up in wondering what I screwed up - which was nothing.

 

After this last breakup, I was upset for one day, and then....indifference. If she can go from talking about marriage and kids and wanting to be with me forever (something she NEVER did until we got back together last October), and then, in two days, suddenly want to break up, then there is something seriously emotionally wrong with her. I still love her and yes, I'm still hanging onto her, but for the first time since I started dating her, even with all of the nonsense, I can imagine my life without her in it.

 

But......I still won't let go. I think part of the reason why is she has never done anything to make me say BAM-it's over, like cheating on me or cutting off contact and actually blocking me from reaching her. I know that breaking up with me just to play the field is pretty close to cheating, but she has always shown an emotional connection to me, even now.

 

Just today, as she has said since this last breakup, she tells me I am her best and closest friend, that she has never felt closer to anyone else, and never will - then adds the postmortem "I wish things were different" line. If only I didn't have a child tying me down, she says. This is unlike last fall, when she started dating someone else and acted like it was normal, and that she had moved on. She has told me that she will struggle to find someone else because she is so in love with me. It's strange. Sometimes I wonder if she really does think that we don't have a future together, and it's not BPD.

 

But I still see the BPD. She started her last semester of college today, and is convinced she will fail all of her classes. Every start of semester she does this. She'll end up with A's and B's as she always does. She was upset that "Modern Family" won the best comedy Emmy, and when a girl commented on her Facebook that she loves that show, she quickly split her back and thinks she is now an idiot.

 

And she is still convinced she will be moving to New York in the spring, despite having two maxed out credit cards, a 2013 car she bought brand new that she still owes four years on, and no money in the bank and student loan repayment right around the corner. And when I, like a rational realistic person, try to tell her that it's going to be tough to move when she wants, she gets mad and tells me I'm not supporting her and she IS moving, I just don't believe in her. Yeah, just like six months ago when she told me she was going to outfit our new apartment in all IKEA furniture. When I asked her how she would afford this, she cut me off and said she would handle it. Not surprisingly, that idea died a few months later, and now she is going to live in NYC and make $100,000 a year in the film industry....eventually.

 

I'll close this novel of a post with this - if another female came along at this point, I would not think of my GF (ex, whatever) and not let her get in the way of moving on. Last fall, when she started dating that other guy, I was blindsided and hurt, and rebounded myself with two women that I shouldn't have as a result of HER dating someone. I do feel sometimes that it will take a while for me to find someone - I've had two serious relationships in my life - my current GF and the mother of my daughter. Thus, when someone says "move on and find someone else!" it's not like I can just go out and find her. I'm not that kind of guy. Thus, having someone, even my current BPD GF, is acceptable for me. But I won't let my feelings for her keep me from moving on. The best feeling I think I can eventually experience is feeling for someone else, and leaving my current GF behind.

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Edited August 29, 2014 by GoBroncs1983
Typo

[GoBroncs1983]

An update:

 

She and I have been friendly since my last post, and hung out casually a couple of times, no sex. We went out last Thursday, and she was distant and cruel to me, snippy. We go back to her apartment.....yes, I was going to stay the night. But then she starts picking at me for no reason. Out of nowhere, she asks me to get tested for STD's, since I've slept with several women and she is now concerned she has HPV or something. I simply scratch my head, and she freaks out and thinks I have lice and wants to look at my head with a flashlight. This is odd, absurd, controlling, and despite her BPD characteristics, quite wild thinking that she usually doesn't exhibit. I become angry and leave. As I'm driving home I say out loud to myself, "That was her engulfment fear - she's pushing me away."

 

Two nights later, I go out with friends. I don't tell her, because every time I do, she freaks out. I do check in at the bar on Facebook, and she sees it. Then come the texts.

 

"Are you on a date?"

"Please just tell me."

 

She e-mails me - "Did you block my number? You aren't answering my texts!"

 

I text her back simply "No" thinking it will shut her up. The texts continue:

 

"What did you mean by No?"

"I feel like you are keeping something from me."

"I'm very confused."

"So......nothing?"

 

I'm literally watching a child throw a temper tantrum, via text.

 

I go home at 1:00am. She texts me at 6:45 in the morning, waking me up:

 

"Please talk to me! I'm begging you."

"I haven't slept. I'm having a panic attack."

 

I'm awake at this point and stop her misery, telling her I was with friends, and not on a date, and not sleeping with anyone. She starts a barrage of apology texts and tells me she can't let go of me and wants to start over. Another moment of clarity. She wants to work on herself and stop treating me poorly. I rarely go out with friends, so it's an instance where she isn't aware or in control of my situation, and she freaked out.

 

I ask her about the guy from work. She admits she kissed him on a night out with friends a week earlier, coincidentally in the same bar district I went to on Saturday. She says it was a terrible mistake and that she will only remain platonic friends with him. She says she realized after kissing him that she doesn't want a relationship. I'm finding this all out a week later, so once again she hid activity with another guy from me.

 

I say no way, I'm not even speaking to her if she remains friends with him. She says she can't stop being friends with him - they work together. I say you can be co-workers, but no friendship outside of work, no texting, no talking, no hanging out, no Facebook, nothing. She says that would be too awkward for her. Awwww....wouldn't want her to be uncomfortable in any way.

 

She then says that last week, she invited him to go to a concert tonight (Tuesday as I write this) and that they are still going together, just as friends. So she makes out with him and decides she doesn't want a relationship, but then invites him to a concert. Sure. I say nope, he needs to not go. She says it would be too awkward to back out, that it's strictly platonic with him now. I tell her she isn't getting it - she doesn't get a free pass to go screw around with another guy, then expect to still get to talk to me AND him. She says it's too awkward to end her friendship with him now, but she PROBABLY will when one of them gets a new job.

 

She's hanging on to him, probably as a safety net, or vice versa with me.

 

Fed up that she will not stop it with this loser, I delete her from all social media and tell her I don't want to speak to her anymore. It's comically awful at this point. She keeps texting me that I am the most important person in her life, blah blah blah.

 

So yeah, that's where I am. Last fall, when she got back together with me, she claimed that she had to stay with the other boyfriend (triangulation!) until the end of the semester, because you know, it's too awkward to see him in class if she breaks up with him. She always has some excuse that isn't her fault for needing to keep these men in her life. Um, no. She can end it right now, but she won't.

 

Screw her.

[Chi townD]

She wants a relationship with you; however, she won't give up the other guy. She says you are the most important thing to her, but she won't give up the other dude to secure the MOST important and dear thing to her (your relationship).

 

 

And her freaking out on you saying that you need to get STD checks and HPV...blah...blah...checking you for head lice...blah...blah... That is a projection of guilt. I speculate that she did more than just kiss this other dude. One thing about cheaters, they tell you the bare minimum of what truly happened as to not make it look as bad as it really was.

 

 

Dude, you need to change your phone number, you've been dealing with this for about a year now!

[mightycpa]

If someone had described this kind of behavior to you up front, would you have signed up for it?

 

I don't mean to be mean, but why would you want a GF with BPD? So she could become a wife with BPD? So that your kids could have it too?

 

Or do you enjoy the recurring drama and heartache? I don't get it. It seems to me you have an excuse to bail, not that you really need one.

[GoBroncs1983]

Chi Town.....as soon as she admitted that she kissed him last week, I said "Ah ha....that's why she was a bitch to me the other night." Did she also sleep with him? Maybe. But she is big on honesty, and if she lied to me and I eventually caught her, that would be about the worst thing that she could imagine, so as odd as it all sounds, I believe her when she said she only kissed him. But I could be wrong at this point, she's acting so wild.

 

Nevertheless, even if she just kissed him or screwed him for eight hours in 7 positions, it's all the same to me. She didn't TECHNICALLY cheat, she broke up with me first. But again, one in the same for me, since she had him lined up as the next guy as soon as the breakup occurred, as STH said previously.

 

mightycpa, I can't explain why I've hung on this long. I've said before that beneath all of this chaos, she is a sweet person. The mother of my child is evil. This girl is not. I do not believe she does all of this to be sinister and hurt me intentionally. She has a lot of inner pain and it shows by how she treats me. I guess it's the codependent in me that keeps hanging on, thinking it will change. When things are good, they are VERY good, in all categories. But she just as quickly can develop feelings for a co-worker or find and pull some excuse out of her @ss and break up with me, as she has done six times now.

 

Over and over, especially in the last few days, she has told me she doesn't know why she acts this way. When I offer a myriad of suggestions as to why, she always immediately says that isn't why....for each and every one. She admits she has issues, and says she wants to "work" on them and "change", but is doing nothing to progress on that. I don't know about anyone else, but if I was acting crazy and didn't know why, that would petrify me. But perhaps she is used to those feelings.

[Downtown]

But then she starts picking at me for no reason.... As I'm driving home I say out loud to myself, "That was her engulfment fear - she's pushing me away."

Bingo, you got it! As we discussed a year ago, the BPDer's subconscious protects her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality (i.e., seeing that it is her own fragile ego, not you, that is causing the engulfment fear). The subconscious accomplishes this by projecting that fear onto you. At a conscious level, then, she really does believe you are the cause of her discomfort. She therefore does a mental search for a logical explanation (e.g., STD or lice you picked up) of what it is you've done wrong. Or, alternatively, that projection might be motivated -- as ChiTown suggests -- by her guilt over having betrayed you in some way.

[GoBroncs1983]

Downtown, I'd say the projection was guilt based, as ChiTown said. When I asked her about it, she said it was because of all the crap in her life right now - no money, school stress, job stress, etc. - which caused her to take out her resentment on me. That may be it, but I'm pretty sure the fact that she messed around with another guy (she hadn't told me at the time) was the main factor. She did something similar a year ago with the OTHER guy - I asked to hang out, and she said she was just going to hang out with her mom and sister. That was literally the first time she had ever turned down spending time with me. Suddenly, her mom and sister were VERY important to her ("I haven't seen them in a long time!") and she was pushing me away. We weren't together in person when she did it, so it was a softer rejection. Then a few days later, I find out she's been sleeping with another guy.

 

To go back to mightycpa's question again, I think another reason why I've held onto her for so long is that until a year ago, I legitimately thought that I was the problem. She would break up with me and say I wasn't coming over enough, or showing enough effort, or we fought too much, or some other minor reason. I didn't want to lose her, so I accepted the guilt every time. Now, after starting this thread, reading Downtown's points on BPD (I have revisited this thread many times in the last year), hearing from others that it's NOT my fault - it has helped me tremendously.

 

The reason I started this thread in the first place was I was looking for answers. Her behavior didn't seem typical. Now I know for sure that it isn't. I shouldn't be dumped over minor things, or treated this way. Her jumping (either emotionally or physically) to other men isn't normal. I haven't done anything major enough to warrant the rejection she has repeatedly given me, especially this last time around.

 

This last year has been full of ups and downs with her (most of the downs in the last two months, hence me coming back to this thread), but I have been able to understand and manage the downs without the burning hurt feeling in my gut - because of what I have been told - about her, BPD, and behaviors.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still love her, it still hurts, but the overwhelming feeling of sadness and guilt I felt last year isn't there right now. I realize she is ill. SHE says she realizes she is ill, but doesn't want to take the steps to rectify things (i.e, not talking to the other guy anymore) and right now, I don't want to speak to her. I never want to speak to her again unless she is committed to getting help for her issues, and that means something beyond trying to be nicer to me. I allowed her to just hit a reset button last time, and it blew up in my face when she developed yet another schoolgirl crush on a guy who gave her attention.

 

I appreciate the feedback and would welcome more. This thread has been a great help to me.

[SoThatHappened]

... I still love her, it still hurts,

GB,

 

You're still hurting because you haven't taken the advice on here when we say "run away!"

 

You haven't cut this girl out of your life, and you're still suffering as a result.

 

I cut my ex out the second we broke up. Hurt like heck for 2 months, but I'm now over 3 months post-breakup and am doing soooo much better.

 

You have to cut all ties, man. This girl is not for you. She's too young and possibly has BPD.

 

Run away, man. Chalk this up as "lesson learned" and find the right girl for you.

[GoBroncs1983]

An update:

 

I’ll start by apologizing – I know I’ve written tens of thousands of words on this thread about this girl. But it helps me process it. I’ve been reading many other BPD-centered threads here in the last couple of weeks, most of them with Downtown’s comments, which have helped me tremendously. I guess I’m still at the point of feeling like I’ve gone crazy due to her treatment, and I’m looking to connect the dots. I’ve always been that way – I try and process events by attempting to wrap it all up in a nice package and say “There – THAT’S what happened. *washes hands of situation* Now I can move on.” Sometimes – the loss of a family member to cancer for instance – it’s easy to understand. Other times, it’s hard to comprehend how someone can change so dramatically and so swiftly, MULTIPLE times, BPD characteristics or not.

 

There has been a lot of gray area with her. Is it BPD? Is it not? Am I to blame? Does she really care about me?

 

To get back to the update, she and I began speaking again a couple of days after the events of my post on 9/16. She stated that she was “significantly scaling back” her friendship with the guy from work, but couldn’t completely eliminate him as they work together. I disagreed, and wanted her to draw a line in the sand with him, only speak to him at work, delete him from Facebook, etc. She responded by just inactivating HER entire Facebook account, rather than him individually. As usual with her, she avoided the direct issue with an indirect response. She said she deleted it because of how dumb Facebook is and that she was sick of it, but after it became apparent I wasn’t going to accept her solution, she restored her profile, just hours later.

 

I compare other guy to a cancer that is killing the relationship between us. I present it to her in black/white terms – just end the friendship with him, and we can try to move on and work on each other. I should have known that would trigger her engulfment fear.

 

Remember, this guy has been following her for almost a year, ready to date and screw her whenever she’s ready. She is unable to simply be friends with him, or any other non-repulsive guy who gives her attention. It makes me wonder why she fell for me five years ago. It shouldn’t come as a surprise that she told me he’s never really had a girlfriend before. He’s young, inexperienced, naïve, wanting someone. But he’s so NICE! Okay, but you don’t have to fall for him. Now I get why she got so angry at my friendships with other women (jealousy aside). She thinks I will fall for them, because that’s what SHE does with men, relationship or not. I don’t know if that’s one of the BPD traits, but it’s definitely something she does.

 

Continuing on, we are friendly with one another, and go to lunch once. No sex, no staying over, etc. I decide to use my day off last Friday (she works) to go see the movie “Gone Girl”, as it’s literally the only time (due to my daughter and work schedule) that I have a chance to see it for over a week. She doesn’t seem bothered by this, but it’s a rare occurrence where I decide to do something on my own without even involving her.

 

Why do I say all of that? Because the next night, she goes to see the movie with other guy. What a coincidence. She’s friendly with me all day via text, then at 6pm goes invisible, doesn’t read my texts, doesn’t respond until the next morning. She claims nothing intimate happened with him. I don’t know if to believe her anymore. She says she only went to see the movie with him because she really wanted to see it, and he agreed to go with her. She could have gone alone, but made sure to include him.

 

She tells me all of this, and shifts right back into “we can’t be together and can’t talk” mode. She says she really likes the FRIENDSHIP she has with other guy, and doesn’t want to give it up. Hmmmm. She says she should have no problem ending her friendship with him and be with me, but WANTED to go see the movie with him. I say she did it to get back at me, but eh. She says she would resent ME if I forced her to end her friendship with him. She says we need to take time apart and get over each other.

 

She seems like she is full of guilt, and said she knew I would get angry and “hate” her, so she didn’t tell me she was going out with him. It seems like some sort of preemptive strike – I know you’ll be mad, so before you do - I’m going to end it first. Of course, she didn’t have to go out with him. It seems very self destructive.

 

I have no doubt she felt one of the two BPD fears by me going to see the movie without her (alone, mind you), and it triggered the appropriate emotional response – going to see the same movie, with the other guy, and then once again “ending” the relationship. That’s usually how it works. If only I didn’t do (minor thing), this wouldn’t have happened.

 

Apology after apology follows, she says she hates how she behaves, and hates how she has treated me. It seemed like a moment of clarity, but she says we can’t be together and can no longer speak. She never says how she would change herself, and the only possible solution is to eliminate me. Again, never taking the responsibility, just declaring she is a mess, and move on. Rather than work on herself, she sweeps it all under the rug. Man, I can only imagine how having all of that turmoil inside must feel.

 

She repeatedly says she hopes we can be friends someday. That glimmer of hope that has made me come back over and over. Again, speaking of us in the past tense, as if it’s over forever. I compare it to my daughter saying she hates me, then 15 minutes later wanting a hug.

 

We haven’t spoken in five days, other than her texting me about – you guessed it – a night out with friends that I posted about on Facebook, asking what I was doing. I promptly unfriended her after that, and she hasn’t tried to contact me, interestingly enough. Maybe she has Other Guy around her finger and is occupied with him now.

 

I look back on my behaviors during all of this, and I feel that a lot of it stems from my codependent nature, stemming from having a mother who would swing rapidly to sadness on a regular basis. It also affected my ability to manage crises – I always want to find a solution and end the uneasy feeling as quickly as possible. I think my Ex feels used to the impulsive “I want to fix this” feeling and knows she can get me to react by doing these things – in addition to her BPD. Not in a “Muahahaha” kind of way where she plans it all out, but in an emotional way of suppressing it all.

 

I’ve been reading a lot of posts about the child vs. adult approach to handling situations. My child wants me to keep trying with her, since she always leaves the faint glimmer of hope that it COULD work. But I need my adult to look at it more realistically.

 

Downtown, I also reread the 18 BPD warning signs you posted in another thread, and for the first time, I emphatically shook my head “Yes” at every one of them in comparison to my ex (not having to dig deep to find an example), especially the last one, “Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality” as she routinely has a way of explaining her behavior, decisions, and WHY she and I need to be (whatever she wants at that time) in what seems to be an intelligent, thought out manner. However, if you looked at her behavior from the outside (as you and others have), it makes little sense.

 

I look at how I’ve treated her like how a parent gives in to a child rather than face a tantrum. I’ll break NC and text her, because I don’t like the tension of NC. I’ll let her behave in these absurd ways, because I don’t want to lose her. I’ll walk on eggshells and choose my words carefully. Never has she had to take responsibility. Never had she had to learn and grow and change. And now, when faced with change or else, she pushes back on the engulfment fear (or abandonment?) and chooses to fun away. And now, she has another naïve guy to focus on, to be the victim and bitch about every little facet of her life.

 

Yesterday, I had a heated exchange with the mother of my daughter, and for a few minutes, I wanted to text my ex and tell her about it. I guess I still have some of the “fleas” she left on me, as I was wanting her to help soothe me. Maybe how I keep coming back here to have someone validate that it’s not my imagination – that she DOES have BPD or some other issue. However, I gutted it out, and didn’t contact her. And I was proud of myself, as small as that “victory” was. I think I’m well on my way to getting over her, but it won’t be easy.

 

I appreciate everyone’s feedback over the last year in this thread. It has helped me understand that I wasn’t causing all of these issues, and that I was with an ill woman. It will never change with her. I feel sorry for her.

[ThorntonMelon]

The nice thing about BPD (If there is anything nice about it) is the behaviors are actually extremely predictable once you figure out how the thought process goes.

 

So when you start to miss her you can focus on one of the consistently insane behaviors you experienced and realize how destructive it was to you.

[GoBroncs1983]

Thornton, exactly. Her breakups are always sudden and come out of nowhere, although she always says she had been struggling with the relationship for a long time. That may be true, but her fears push and pull her. I always have compared it to a simmering pot of water on a stove top. If you leave it at a certain temperature, it will simmer quietly. But if you turn the dial even a fraction too high, it will boil over. If you turn it too far down, it will stop simmering altogether.

 

I went from being feeling like a bad boyfriend (the first few breakups) to being flabbergasted and hurt (when she started seeing the guy last fall, when I started this thread), to looking at her behavior and comparing it to her BPD/traits (after the reconciliation and through the mini breakups that have been going on since the summer). Her behavior is more pronounced and obvious now, and I think that stems from me not cowering and taking the blame when she wants to break up. I call her out on her behavior, and now she can't play the victim on a whim, and she's at a place where she says she doesn't deserve me and wants me to have better. It's still the same behavior though, just shaped a different way.

 

It's amazing the influence she has had on me. Today, on my lunch break, I went to eat somewhere that I hadn't been in years. As I was there, it dawned on me that I had stopped going there after my ex put it down one time when I suggested WE go there. She had eaten there numerous times, but one day out of nowhere, in black/white fashion, declared it as unhealthy, salt filled crap, and we (and I alone) never went there again. Yup, she even looked at places to eat in black/white.

 

I realized the places I chose to eat at are places SHE approves of. A handful of places. I think I do this because she always asks what I'm up to, and I didn't want to tell her I had been to one of the places she had splitted black, and hear her disapproval, even if it was a simple "Ew, I don't like their food." THAT'S how focused I was on pleasing her - because she was always down, always complaining, I didn't want to give her one more thing to complain about.

 

It wasn't until I was driving back to work that I realized that I allowed myself to go there because I won't be telling her about it. Wow.

[Downtown]

I gutted it out, and didn’t contact her. And I was proud of myself, as small as that “victory” was. I think I’m well on my way to getting over her, but it won’t be easy.

GB, you have good reason to be proud. You've been establishing stronger personal boundaries and, most important, you've been enforcing them. For excessive caregivers like us, that is very hard to do. The notion of walking away from a sick loved one is anathema to us -- even when that is exactly what we should do.

 

Now I get why she got so angry at my friendships with other women (jealousy aside). She thinks I will fall for them, because that’s what SHE does with men, relationship or not. I don’t know if that’s one of the BPD traits, but it’s definitely something she does.

Yes, this behavior is consistent with having strong BPD traits. As you already know, the push-you-away and pull-you-back cycle is one of the hallmarks of BPDer behavior. During that repetitive cycle of breakup/reconciliation -- especially during the push-away phase -- it is common for BPDers to become enamored with another person.

 

As we discussed last year, it is common for BPDers to address their abandonment fear by using triangulation, wherein they play one person off against the other. For a while, the new guy will be idealized and you will be devalued. At that point, the BPDer may leave you permanently. More likely, however, she will play you off against each other so she always has a backup plan. My exW, for example, did this with me and her adult children. Sometimes she would devalue one of my step children and praise me. At other times, she would reverse it and devalue me and praise one of them. She not felt threatened not only by my relationship with other women (e.g., female coworkers and family members) but also with her own children at times.

[GoBroncs1983]

Thanks, Downtown. Encouragement certainly helps right now. If she texted me at this moment, I would have a strong desire to respond. Now I know why some people compare breaking away from a BPD partner to quitting heroin or some other hard drug. For what it's worth, I semi-regularly use an app on my iPhone that measures sleep quality, and last night, I had the best night of sleep I've ever had, "quality" wise, since I started using it about four years ago.

 

I've tried to read up on triangulation as much as possible, because that is one of the definite behaviors my ex had, with multiple men. The older guy she worked with a few years ago, the guy she dated last fall, and now the guy she had classes with and works with now. I've read testimonials from other BPDers who say they become attached to several people of the opposite sex, because they are non-judgmental, don't make them feel alone, and of course, are nice and fun to be around. Since these people are few and far between for my ex (she usually splits most people black) The current Other Guy my ex is enamored with is witty, smart, and fun, and attractive to her. My ex is quick to devalue any guy she doesn't find attractive (she will say how physically ugly he is), but with this guy, she didn't, which I knew meant she found him cute.

 

Listen - I wanted her to have friends, male and female, but it's like she doesn't have that mechanism in her brain to create a boundary, to just be friends with a guy without falling for them. Again, I think that's why she was so catatonic whenever I would hang out with my best friend (a beautiful female), because she always accused me of wanting to leave her (my ex) for her (my friend). No, I'm able to have platonic friendships with people of the opposite sex. She can't do the same.

 

During every one of these triangulation incidents, she maintained a relationship with me, too. She will value the other guy and refuse to let go of him, but it's not like everything shut down on our end. But she will constantly say she doesn't know what she wants. Having her cake and eating it too.

 

The latest guy started on her back in January at college, and she immediately told me about him ("I think this guy is flirting with me") but not to worry. But she kept talking to him, became Facebook friends with him, started texting him, talked to her boss and got him a job at her work (she says HE asked her about a job), then, after yet another breakup with me in July, started hanging out with him. Then she told me it was all just a coincidence that this all happened, that it wasn't planned. Of course, the evidence says otherwise, but with her BPD, maybe she did subconsciously draw and keep him close to her. Warning sign #18? I don't know. I do realize the triangulation started the moment she told me he was first flirting with her at college. She didn't need to say that.

 

I think the one statement that sums up her absurd thinking is what she told me a week ago: That if she had to end her friendship with him, she would resent ME for "forcing" her to lose a "great friend" - her words. She fools around with this guy (granted, she did "break up" with me first), wanted to have me back, but didn't want to stop talking to Other Guy. And it's MY FAULT if she does, and thus she can't talk to ME anymore. Amazing. It would also throw off everything with her little work group, too, which probably made it easier to just cut me out.

 

She also said that whenever she was with me, it was platonic with Other Guy. WAS. Push and pull, push and pull.

 

I'll close with this - my ex SEEMED very remorseful, and continued to acknowledge her behavior as wrong. She said she was sorry dozens of times, and that I deserved better. I've read both sides - BPDers who never take responsibility, and those who acknowledge they have done wrong and feel terribly about it. My ex seems to be the latter, at least right now. But then, she is just cutting me out rather than get help or face her actions. It's like she lives with this constant shame, but to dig deeper would be worse than that shame. Thus, I must be eliminated, again. She's like a drug addict who spends most of her time sobbing about her addiction, but then leans forward and snorts another line anyway. Maybe, like I said yesterday, it's her way of still continuing her behavior when she knows the victim card won't work with me anymore.

[SoThatHappened]

It's like she lives with this constant shame, but to dig deeper would be worse than that shame.

GB,

 

A couple things you said hit home with me, this line in particular.

Again, your ex sounds so similar to mine it's scary. My ex admitted everything she'd done in her past. It was actually weird how open she was. She would admit to sleeping with many people, hurting other guys, being looked down upon by her family, etc.

 

BUT, she never looked at ways to fix herself, which sounds just like your ex. Instead, she would just continue the bad behavior.

 

She'd go catatonic when confronted about her behavior or if anything threw her off... just like your ex.

 

It sounds like you're doing much better. Good job man.

[Fearful]

Op, sorry if this hurts you. My thought is you have a biger problem than your girl friend's BPD and that should be your concern. A girl dump you seven times and you are still wasting your life and time on her. According to Your narration, your ex wife 'was evil', you dated 2 other girls in-between break-up with your your BPDer girl friend. You cant keep and maintain a normal relationship. She has a problem and you have problems but your greatest problem is that you dont even know your problems. So all you need now is to move away from her and start focusing on yourself because you need your self more than she needs you and your daughter needs you more than you need your self. At 32, if you don't know your self, when would you do?

[Survivor12]

op, sorry if this hurts you. My thought is you have a biger problem than your girl friend's bpd and that should be your concern. A girl dump you seven times and you are still wasting your life and time on her. According to your narration, your ex wife 'was evil', you dated 2 other girls in-between break-up with your your bpder girl friend. You cant keep and maintain a normal relationship. She has a problem and you have problems but your greatest problem is that you dont even know your problems. So all you need now is to move away from her and start focusing on yourself because you need your self more than she needs you and your daughter needs you more than you need your self. At 32, if you don't know your self, when would you do?

 

^^^^^^this!!!!

[xUnknown]

But then, she is just cutting me out rather than get help or face her actions. It's like she lives with this constant shame, but to dig deeper would be worse than that shame. Thus, I must be eliminated, again.

This is the exact same thing that happened to me (search my threads).

 

I read your entire thread and noticed my ex had some of the same traits as yours.

 

We broke up Sept '13, she came back Dec '13. Dating again from Jan'14-Oct'14.

 

She said she wasn't happy, broke up. Then came back realizing that she thought she wasn't happy with me, when she knew it was herself she wasn't happy with. Now, when we broke up the second time, she said the exact same thing... She admitted she had a problem, but instead of working on things together, cut me out. She knows the problem is in her head.

 

I wish she went to therapy when she came back in December. I know if she had, i wouldn't be going through what I went through again. Its her problem, not mine. Yet, I still feel like it was my fault.

[xUnknown]

Quote:

It's like she lives with this constant shame, but to dig deeper would be worse than that shame.

GB,

 

A couple things you said hit home with me, this line in particular.

Again, your ex sounds so similar to mine it's scary. My ex admitted everything she'd done in her past. It was actually weird how open she was. She would admit to sleeping with many people, hurting other guys, being looked down upon by her family, etc.

 

BUT, she never looked at ways to fix herself, which sounds just like your ex. Instead, she would just continue the bad behavior.

 

She'd go catatonic when confronted about her behavior or if anything threw her off... just like your ex.

 

It sounds like you're doing much better. Good job man.

 

 

Yep... 100% same thing. Admit when she was wrong, treating me unfairly, or

knows why she is unhappy is HER problem. She would say I don't make her happy since her bff got engaged, but she knows I always made her happy so she doesn't know why that caused her "Happiness meter" to become longer. But, she won't talk to someone to help her figure herself out when she knows she needs to. As you said GB, she's afraid of what shell find if she goes digging deeper into herself.

[SoThatHappened]

.....as soon as she admitted that she kissed him last week, I said "Ah ha....that's why she was a bitch to me the other night." Did she also sleep with him? Maybe. But she is big on honesty,

Missed this before, but another trait my ex had.

 

She was openly honest, even when it was something bad/disgusting about her. Like she had no filter and just blurted things out.

 

If she tried to hide things or lie, it would only take a few minutes or a few hours to get to the truth.

 

Downtown, is this another trait of those with BPD? Or just a coincidence?

[Downtown]

She was openly honest, even when it was something bad/disgusting about her. Like she had no filter and just blurted things out. If she tried to hide things or lie, it would only take a few minutes or a few hours to get to the truth. Downtown, is this another trait of those with BPD?

No, STH. Neither "telling the truth" nor "telling frequent lies" is a BPD trait. Because untreated BPDers have an emotional development that is frozen at the level of a three or four year old, they are stuck using the primitive ego defenses that are available to young children. Your question, then, comes down to "How would a three year old behave after doing something bad?"

 

The answer is that some young children tell the truth and some try to lie their way out of the situation. Importantly, these children -- like the BPDers -- are fully reliant on primitive ego defenses which include denial (i.e., outright lying) and projection. At issue, then, is which of these two defenses will be used more frequently to cover up mistakes and shortcomings. In my experience, both the three year olds and the BPDers will rely far more heavily on projection than lying. The reason is that, whereas lying carries with it the heavy penalty of feeling shameful, projection is blissfully guilt free because it occurs entirely at the subconscious level.

 

Moreover, because BPDers are filled with self loathing and shame, their subconscious minds are very quick and very effective at protecting them from seeing too much of the truth. That is, they are far more skilled and experienced than the young children at using projection. This is why BPDers generally believe (at a conscious level) nearly all of the outrageous allegations coming out of their mouths. And this is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion."

 

The result is that BPDers are so consciously unaware of their mistakes and flaws that they usually don't feel a need to lie about it. This is why BPD is said to be "ego-syntonic," which means that these thought distortions are such a normal part of the BPDer's thinking process that she is wholly unaware of them. And this is why the vast majority of BPDers -- I would guess 90% to 95% -- lack the self awareness to see their own thought distortions (although they do have a vague awareness that something is missing or wrong with themselves).

 

Hence, if your exGF really does exhibit strong BPD traits, her ability to "know the problem is in her head" -- as you say -- would indicate she is one of the 5% -10% having that high level of self awareness. It would NOT mean, however, that she is home free in achieving a recovery. Because it takes years of hard work in therapy to learn how to manage emotions and avoid the thought distortions, the BPDer also must have sufficient ego strength to stay in therapy long enough to make a difference. My experience is that most "self-aware BPDers" lack that ego strength. The result is that they will talk, talk, talk about their mistakes and shortcomings but will do nothing to remedy them.

[GoBroncs1983]

STH, thanks for the encouragement. To piggyback on your last couple of posts, my ex was strangely remorseful in the last few months, and especially in the last few weeks. She usually always had some convoluted explanation to justify her actions (warning sign #18 on Downtown's list in the other thread) that usually involved it being MY fault - but this time, she had no answers. She didn't know why she did these things, why she sabotaged our relationship, and said I deserve better. It was like she fell on her sword, she showed so much guilt. She said that when she went to see the movie with Other Guy, she thought over and over about how much I would hate her for doing it. Then WHY DO IT? Textbook engulfment fear, am I right? Relationship suicide.

 

She also said if I didn't have a child, she would marry me tomorrow. For almost anyone in my situation, that would be a deal breaker. But I think it's just her go-to excuse now that I won't accept the blame anymore - because it's something that will never change. She might as well have said if only my eyes were blue instead of green, or if only I was three inches taller. "I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who has a kid." Really? At the start of the relationship, she had tea parties and played with my daughter. I guess that was mirroring me. She knows resenting my child would kill our relationship, and she still did it.

 

Other than my child, she had no clear cut reason for not wanting to be with me. She said she just "had a feeling" and "something clicked." Yeah, your subconscious triggering one of your two fears, and emotionally, you feel a way you can't explain.

 

She spent most of this last breakup telling me how hard it will be not to have me in her life, how I'm the most important person in the world to her, blah blah blah. But she still pushes me away.

 

Fearful, I agree that I have many issues as well. One of the big ones has been refusing to let go of her because I won't have anyone, and I'm someone who has had less than five real relationships in my life. I feel like I won't find someone for a long time. She fills a void. I need to find a way to fill it with myself. I also need to come to grips with my codependent mentality, how I AM an excessive caregiver because I had an emotional mother growing up, so I'm always trying to please - EVERYONE, rather than myself.

 

xUnknown, I feel like I'm in a similar spot as you with my ex. She hates herself, tells me as such, but doesn't try to work on her issues. Thus, we are just doomed to repeat it all over again and again. This time around, she developed a crush on another guy and felt guilty over it. Rather than address that behavior, she just eliminated me. Now she can continue on her merry way without having to answer for her actions. I'm sure she will eventually find a way in that twisted brain of hers to blame everything on me, I wasn't the man for her, and she will absolve herself of any guilt. I feel sorry for the next guy she dates.