Explain my Ex's Behavior...just want to understand

[GoBroncs1983]

I got my answer.

 

To preface, this post will be mostly about my ex. If you want to respond that I'm focusing too much on her, etc. - I ask that you look at this post in its full context. It's about my recovery more than her.

 

I've been seeing someone as I have mentioned in my previous few posts. It has been going well, although we are both busy professionals and it's hard to hang out. I'm definitely not getting the constant attachment I had with my ex. My new girl is also very independent and assertive. More than once she has texted me and said she was just going to go home and relax (she has a high profile political job) instead of hanging out with me. It's not shunning me, she's affectionate about it, but it's weird compared to my ex, who would want to even go to Taco Bell with me. It's progressing slowly, which is what I want anyway. She's a sweet, smart girl. I'm happy spending time with her.

 

I have posted here about wanting to hear from my ex again, simply to know she still cares about me, and THEN (I go back and forth) I can tell her to leave me alone and have closure. Well......

 

She and I are not Facebook friends, but two days ago, the replacement boyfriend commented on a photo of she and I that she still has on her Facebook. I'm tagged in the photo, so I got a notification - that the new boyfriend had commented. Talk about a trigger. It was some dumb, passive aggressive comment from him ("Ahhh, memories!") but it made me mad. And it shows what a nincompoop she is dating.

 

Then, as if she knew I knew, my ex messaged me on Facebook yesterday. She apologized for Mr. Replacement's comment. She said he was mad the photo was still on her Facebook, and he commented to get her to take it down - rather than, you know, just asking her to. She said it angered her and she yelled at him about it. And again apologized. I told her I understood.

 

Then she tried to make conversation. The gate was open.

 

I kept my responses short, and let her know that I am seeing someone. When I said THAT, she abruptly changed her tone. She then told me she's planning to move away as soon as possible, and of course Mr. Replacement (who has been with her a month) will be moving with her. Quick, hostile comments. Asking me about my new girlfriend - how long have we been dating, passive aggressive "I'm happy for you" comments. I tell her that she has hurt me deeply, and then I had to go into a meeting and stopped responding to her.

 

What is below is about 30 individual messages she sent me while I was in that meeting, condensed into easier to read paragraph form. I've also removed the personal touches to make it seem more generic for forum purposes, but hopefully the emotion is still present. I know it may seem a bit intrusive to post her words, but I feel it shows the proper insight and closure I can now feel.

 

She told me she kept crying in the bathroom at work, and had to leave early. I read everything she tells me now with the knowledge of BPD thanks to Downtown and others, and I did the same with these comments. The vulnerable clarity she shows here is amazing, compared to the defiant confidence when she gives me absurd reasons during push away phases:

 

(I'm assuming as you read this, you know the history - and recent developments - from reading my story on here)

 

"Part of me was harsh on (Replacement) when I talked about him (to you) because I didn't want you to be worried. I wasn't lying, but I knew he was more than his "persona" he puts on. So just FYI, I'm not dating some moron. Not that it matters at all. What I've told you about him is not who he actually is deep down. Again, not that I have to explain myself or justify it, but I've misrepresented him. He was a good outlet for me to rant and vent about my problems. Our problems. A friend, truly. It just organically turned into something more.

 

Hearing about you dating someone - even though I'm happy about it deep down - is still devastating. It's like I can't just fully move on. I have so many emotions attached to you. It (bleeping) sucks, quite frankly.

 

Because it's not logical emotions. When I use my brain, I know our romantic relationship is over and should be over. But it's the raw, pure emotions. The ones I can't stop. The ones that just take me the (bleep) over and make me cry at work.

 

I know I SHOULD feel x way. But I'm just trying to be honest with you and tell you how I actually feel. It's (bleeped) up. I've had to stop myself about 20 times from contacting you. Because I knew this would happen. I (bleeping) knew it. Just seeing your name on Facebook makes me want to cry. I've thought about deleting it.

 

How I feel right now and how I've felt is not healthy or correct. This is why I can't talk to you. You have such an effect on me. It doesn't matter that I'm dating someone - that I've technically moved on. You have a huge influence on my feelings. So you wonder why I stopped talking to you? Why I didn't respond to your emails, your texts? I literally couldn't. When you texted me saying you felt betrayed and saddened, it broke my (expletive) heart.

 

I can't be so emotionally invested in you. I can't start crying every time I think about something we've shared or experienced together. All I want is to call you and hear your voice. I can't set boundaries with you. It doesn't work. We cannot talk because I can't get over "us" otherwise. I know you're thinking, why the hell is she so affected by this when she's the one who did it? But I just am. I feel so much comfort and normalcy with you. Not having that anymore is very sad for me. I am so sorry I'm even saying this stuff to you. It's incredibly inappropriate.

 

Time away from you makes me numb. My emotions, while still there, are put on the back burner. The goal is for that to eventually go away. But when I think about you - talk to you, see you on Facebook, whatever - it is a gigantic step backwards.

 

The emotions just come right back up like they never went away. All of the "healing" I'd done up to that point is worthless, like it didn't happen. I often have to actively NOT think about you. When I find myself thinking, I'll tell myself to stop. I'll quickly try to find something to get my attention so I don't dwell on you.

 

This is all making me sound very pathetic so you know I'm being honest. Especially now that you're dating someone else. I literally haven't gotten on Facebook on my computer (when the comments just show up) in fear that I would read something you said on someone’s post. It's hard for me to see your (expletive) NAME. It's pathetic.

 

If any of you would like to analyze that, especially from a BPD perspective, go ahead. It was absolutely fascinating to see her speak like that after NC for two months and countless happy photos with Mr. Replacement on Facebook.

 

I eventually responded, and went the BPD validation route and told her I understood. I wasn't sucked back in, and I never will be. But it's evident that I could have another recycle with my ex if I wanted to. But I don't want to. My biggest struggle was that I thought she didn't care about me anymore. That question was obviously answered yesterday.

 

I don't plan to actively engage my ex any longer. This conversation helped me. I didn't ask once where Mr. Replacement was as she spewed all of this to me, but obviously fight + about me + BPD fears led to her contacting me. I love her very much, but God, I'm glad I'm not dating her anymore.

[BC1980]

I wonder how your new GF would feel if she knew you were still this entrenched in your ex's drama? I don't think you see it, but, from an outsider's perspective, you are still so caught up in this nonsense with your ex. I think you get some validation from your ex. I think it makes you feel good about yourself that she still cares about you.

 

You're human, and a lot of us might feel that way. But still, you should have stopped that conversation before it got to that point. You should have her blocked on FB. The fact that you are still inviting posters to analyze your ex's behavior from a BPD standpoint. You are so not in the right head space to be sating someone else. You are still getting a lot of validation from your ex. If you were truly interested in recovery, you would have blocked her from FB or not even answered her FB message. All of this really makes me question your motivation with dating the new girl. Is it to make your ex jealous? You should never have told your ex you are seeing someone else.

[GoBroncs1983]

I guess I should have expected that response.

[BC1980]

My biggest struggle was that I thought she didn't care about me anymore. That question was obviously answered yesterday.

 

Most people do wonder if their exes still care about them, and it is a struggle. We've all been there. But you went a terrible route to discover that she "still cares about you." I mean, I'm not sure that she still cares about you based on that conversation. I think you might have gleaned that she cares because you are so into seeking validation from her that you take that FB exchange as her still caring about you. Time to seek validation elsewhere. Even if she doesn't care about you, there are people who do care. Invest in those people, not this immature garbage from your ex.

[BC1980]

I guess I should have expected that response.

 

Yes I think that anyone who responds to your post will focus in on the fact that you didn't block her from FB and actually allowed that conversation to take place. They aren't going to want to analyze her messages like you want to. You are the only one who is still interested in analyzing her BPD actions. I think it would be crystal clear to anyone reading your post that you didn't block your FB because you still seek validation from her, and you enjoyed her messages in a way. You like the fact that you can still get under her skin and evoke an emotion in her, which is why you told her that you have a GF. That was actually a cruel thing to do, especially considering that you know what kind of emotional issues she has. That's also why she enjoys having a BF and mentioning it to you. You are both playing off of each other and wanting a reaction. It's an extremely dysfunctional dynamic that you continue to allow into your life. There is a old saying "water seeks its own level."

Edited April 16, 2015 by BC1980

[jt27]

Hey Bronco,

 

I am going to include some comments of different posts from myself in response to this to avoid repeating myself - not to prove I was right or anything like that, but to point out that we have been saying the same things over and over.

 

I would definitely advise you to get off Facebook. Social media has to be one of the worse things for a broken heart. It just perpetuates the hurt and will constantly stall your healing. Why keep reminding yourself of someone you say you no longer miss?

 

You can't always control your thoughts about your ex but can control what you do that keep you tied to her. Doing these things is really delaying your healing and will continue to set you back.

 

For the love of Christ man, stay off Facebook.

 

That's the disconnect - dysfunction to them is normalcy.

 

Drama, drama, drama. So much drama running through what she said. Not only does that message from her illustrate her dysfunction but yours as well. By continuing to involve yourself in this poison, you are just perpetuating this toxic relationship. Whether you realize it or not, you are continuing your relationship with her and vice versa.

 

But I'm just trying to be honest with you and tell you how I actually feel.

 

As you know, what she feels and what she wants changes with the wind and when she decides Forrest isn't what she wants anymore, she'll begin to sabotage the relationship.

 

You don't need validation from someone that jumped right back into another relationship right after you - what kind of validation would that provide anyway? Even if she reached out and told you these things, do you think she actually meant it?

 

Besides that, how can you even trust her if she says she misses you? You know damn right well that can change on a dime anyway.

 

From a BPD standpoint, what she said, she most likely meant it (at the time) but as you know she might very well say something different if you talked to her today. Remember, she is unstable which I why I am so confused as to why you need that "closure". How can you trust what she said?

 

My ex would often say "I'm just being honest" when talking about how she felt when upset. Why the need to preface what you say with "I'm just trying to be honest"? Does that mean unless they say that, it's not honest? I tend to be weary when someone starts with that phrase when talking about things like this as to what they are saying is actually the truth. A lot of time they say that to convince you (or themselves) of something. Often just playing the victim.

 

If you are truly happy with yourself, you won't feel the need to advertise it or prove it - you'll just be happy. There is that need for reassurance again.

 

From what she said, it's obvious this relationship with this guy is a farce and all the advertising of it is just a front.

 

You have such an effect on me. It doesn't matter that I'm dating someone - that I've technically moved on. You have a huge influence on my feelings. So you wonder why I stopped talking to you? Why I didn't respond to your emails, your texts? I literally couldn't. When you texted me saying you felt betrayed and saddened, it broke my (expletive) heart.

 

From a BDP perspective, you could interpret this as her playing the victim but does it all really matter?

 

This message is the kind of thing I fear from my ex. I don't want to be presented with this kind of heart-tugging message from someone I loved with all my heart. After I read it, I immediately thought of my ex and it saddened me.

 

Like I said previously, our exes are like a drug and the only way to beat that addiction is to eliminate everything about her to help yourself heal and move on. You are so obviously still emotionally connected to her and after reading a message like that, I can see why.

 

Lately, I have been thinking about my ex. Actually dreamt about her a couple nights in a row. Not sure why. Maybe it's lonliness, maybe some triggers, who knows. Anyway, I know where her Mom works (retail) and I have had the stupid thought of going to see her. So my ex is still in my system and I have the opportunity to find out what she is doing with her life and if she still thinks of me but I am making the CHOICE to not do so. Sometimes the urge is very strong but I know it would only be to my detriment - just like all this is for you.

 

I agree with BC1980. What is your motivation for dating this new girl? Are you really ready to give her a shot and leave your ex behind?

 

I said it before and I'll say it again - If you found out this new girl was behaving the way you are with your ex, would you date her? And would you truly think she is over her ex if she wrote and did the things you do?

 

It is so damn hard to detach ourselves from women like our exes and what you are doing is making it even harder.

 

I love her very much, but God, I'm glad I'm not dating her anymore.

 

Does this mean you want to be friends with her? If that is isn't the case and you say you don't want to date her, why are you still checking things on Facebook about her?

 

I empathize with you Bronco. Truly, I do. I know what it is like coming out a relationship from someone that is very unstable emotionally. It is so hard to give up on them but you have to because they will never love you like you loved them. Ever. Even if that means not being friends.

 

The whole tone of her message was about her. This is why you have to cut her out of your life COMPLETELY. She is poison.

 

You say you've gotten this "closure" you so desperately wanted, now it's time to eliminate her - If that's what you truly want...

[GoBroncs1983]

Wow, has it been almost two months since I visited this topic? I guess that's a good thing.

 

Well, here's an update about me:

 

I'm still going to therapy. I was going weekly, but now have scaled it back to twice a month. It's mostly about me and less about other people, although I do talk about relationships I've had (both romantic and friends) and why it becomes so personal for me if it doesn't work out. We're zeroing in on my codependency and how I'm "offended" when someone drifts away. My therapist gave me a great piece of advice - "You don't have to wait for them to decide or tell you that it's over. If you have doubts or aren't enjoying it, you have the power to step away, too."

 

Which leads me to that girl I was seeing. WAS. She was never overly affectionate and I was usually the one trying to get HER to talk. It was the polar opposite of my BPD ex, who was ready to move in with me immediately. She also has a demanding political job that takes up much of her time. I realized with the 2016 election coming up, she will be even MORE busy. Most of her texts to me were about someone at her job that was driving her nuts. Complaining.

 

I made a decision and broke up with her. I liked her, and it could have continued, but I didn't want to be dating her job as well. And dating her stresses. Almost immediately, I wasn't thinking about her, which I guess shows how emotionally invested I was. In retrospect, it felt good to be the one to decide how my life was going to go, for once.

 

I'm taking an antidepressant. First time in my life. I can't say my life is 1000% better, but I find that I'm not as bothered by things I cannot control. I'm not washed with dread or guilt as quickly or as long as I was in the past. But most of all, I find myself simply not caring about things that I previously had such intensity over.

 

Like my ex. Yeah, I'm going to talk about her, but it's such an interesting end to that situation.

 

She and I have talked a couple of times. Yep. She tells me she wants to be friends, but can't "right now" because obviously the replacement (who she is still with) wouldn't like it. So she sneaks me Facebook messages when he isn't around. And.....

 

She told me the new boyfriend, the guy she hooked up with two weeks after leaving me for the 7th time, the security guard at her work who had just been dumped by his wife -

 

She told me he has diagnosed BPD, and they fight almost every day. She didn't know when they started dating. She told me he threw all of his belongings in her apartment's dumpster, "broke up" with her, said he was going to kill himself, and left. They were back together the next day. She says it happens several times a week, the fighting. That he gets jealous whenever she says ANYONE (even a celebrity) is attractive. That he hits himself and rages, but not at her. That almost every fight ends with him saying she is too good for him and that he's leaving her, and she begs him not to.

 

But she wants to stay with him because he's a good guy. And he knows when he is irrational and hates himself for it - which probably makes him seem like a wounded bird when he apologies to her. Two weeks ago, she messaged me at midnight because he had "left" again and she was upset. She said "it's really over this time - I should just be single anyway." A week later, she went on an impulsive vacation with him after he apologized.

 

All I can say is - karma is collecting. I feel sad for her, because I DO want her to find happiness, but yeah, what a choice she made.

 

Yeah, she's flirted with me when they fight, but as soon as he apologizes, she runs back to him. I've learned to not allow myself to get swallowed back into her mess. And as I said, the antidepressant (or maybe it's time, or maybe I've finally had enough) has made me not care as much. I'll always love her - she gave me many, many happy times. But it's time to not have her in my life anymore. She made her own bed.

 

I know I shouldn't talk to her and should block her, etc. But really, truly, I just don't care enough to make that decision. Like, I don't want to build myself up emotionally to hit "block" on Facebook or on my phone. She isn't worth that effort from me. If I were to put my feelings toward her into one action, I would just laugh and shake my head. I just don't have the energy anymore.

 

I'm sure Downtown or others can speak to how a BPDer can end up with another BPDer, although she said the acting out didn't happen until a month into the relationship - a MONTH! - but oh well.

 

So I'm single, okay with it, and continuing on. I work out regularly now and have lost 20 pounds. I complete my leadership program through work this month and begin my Master's Degree coursework in the fall. My daughter is turning 11 and will be in the FIFTH grade. My parents both recently retired. I'm busier at work than ever. It's the first day of the rest of my life.

 

I'll always love my ex. I wish it could have been different. But I look at my time with her - even our trip to NYC last December - as the past. She's a good person consumed by an intense disorder that will haunt her for the rest of her life. And it's not something I should inherit in mine, either.

[Downtown]

GB, thanks so much for returning to give us another update. I'm glad to hear you and your D11 (i.e., "nearly 11") are doing so well. I'm also glad to hear you are still able to love your Ex without being "in love" with her. Like you said, the vast majority of BPDers (i.e., those with strong traits) are basically good people as long as you don't draw too close to them -- so as to avoid triggering their two fears: abandonment and engulfment.

 

She told me he has diagnosed BPD.... I'm sure Downtown or others can speak to how a BPDer can end up with another BPDer

Actually, it's easy for nearly anyone to be strongly attracted to a BPDer -- even another BPDer. During the honeymoon period, BPDers don't exhibit their dark side because their infatuation holds their two fears at bay. The partners therefore see only the passion and child-like vulnerability that are so appealing.

 

When both partners are BPDers, they will find much to like when the arguments begin. Because BPDers feel so empty inside, they are attracted to the drama and fireworks that another BPDer offers. They also are attracted to the mini-vacations from intimacy that are provided by the frequent fighting and breakups. Although BPDers generally crave intimacy like nearly everyone else, they cannot tolerate it for sustained periods. They therefore need the type of push-away/pull-back relationship that is offered by other BPDers.

 

Yet, all those advantages are provided by narcissists as well. Moreover, unlike the BPDers, the narcissists are emotionally stable individuals who have a strong, stable self image (albeit a false one). Hence, a narcissist is able to provide all the drama and push-pull that a BPDer wants together with the stability and strong sense of self image that a BPDer sorely needs. This is why a pairing of BPDers and narcissists can last a very long time. Similarly, the pairing of excessive caregivers (like us) and BPDers can last for many years. But the pairing of BPDers typically is very short-lived. Neither BPDer is able to provide the stability, sense of direction, or strong self image that a BPDer sorely needs. This, at least, is my understanding.

[ravfour4]

When I first started reading this, I was thinking - this sounds really close to my situation, I hope it ends well! (Particularly you wanting to know exactly why what happened happened and her continually coming back and not cutting you off) Then...I saw how long this lasted for you, it was a wake up call to me, thanks for sharing your story and I'm glad you're feeling a bit better about everything. Keep on keeping on!

[GoBroncs1983]

Thank you Downtown. I've gotten a bit of triangulation from her again this time around, where she will tell me about her troubles with this guy, and then become somewhat flirty with me, sending me photos of us in NYC and asking me if I remember how awesome it was, texting me when I'm out with friends saying she wished she could be there, etc.....but then, sometimes within the same conversation, she'll say "I gotta go, (new guy) is coming over! Have fun!" in a "Na na nana na!" kind of way. I just shake my head, it's sad. I would like a friendship with her, but she's continuing the push and pull even now.

 

Considering her low tolerance with me for fighting (as I said in my very first post, any substantial argument would push her into "break up" mode) I'm surprised she spars with him so much. The BPD traits are VERY strong with her now, more than when we dated. Maybe it's because she has another BPDer to emotionally feed on each other. She'll tell me she's broke and has no money, then on pay day they go out to a steakhouse and drop $150.00. She says she's spending too much time with him (and has no money) then goes on vacation two days later. She tells me she had to tell her supervisor at work that she wasn't ready to present the project she has been working on because she "hasn't had time" to work on it.....after she had just came back from said impulsive vacation. She had taken those days off for a reason.

 

She wants to stay with him because "we have had some great times together, especially in the first month." Little does she know he was just mirroring her, and now the REAL person is showing up.

 

But I have realized that it isn't my job to inherit other people's problems. Just my employees at work, because that IS my job. If someone is THAT unhappy with their life when you meet them, then you aren't going to make it better. She made it seem like I was (mirroring) for a while, but obviously, I should have seen it.

 

I don't feel the pressures like I did with her anymore, and I'm fascinated that she is the one walking on eggshells in her relationship now. I feel sorry for her.

[sober and dry]

Sorry mate but you are just a emotional cushion for her and her new guy while doing a foul of yourself... Stop this...

[jt27]

Hey Bronco, thanks for the update. Glad to hear you are getting better but not so glad to see you are still involving yourself with your ex.

 

 

I have a little update of my own as well. I said some posts back about how I helped my ex get started in her current career, then she left me a week after starting it. Well, I actually heard from her a few weeks ago.

 

 

It wasn't an "I made a mistake" text. She actually listed me as a reference for a new position she is applying for and asked me for my information. She put on a happy face with her message "Hope as is well..." blah blah blah. She reached out to me not just to "let me know" she did this but to be nice hoping I will say something good on her behalf...again. It's unreal. Even now, she is sucking me dry. I didn't respond.

 

 

I also did find out she is indeed dating a police officer just as I predicted (also noted in my previous post).

 

 

Just seeing her name pop up on my phone has really had an effect on me. I have been pretty up and down emotionally since that text. It thrust me back into constant thoughts of her, recurring dreams of her, and actually making me want her back. It made me think of all the good times, how good we really were together and what could have been if I never let her walk out my door. I missed her so much and I have never felt lonelier than I have in past couple weeks to the point where I actually broke down in tears.

 

 

Also, like you, I stopped seeing the woman that I was already friends with (stopped before the text). There just wasn't anything there. I'm still not ready.

 

 

I guess the moral of the story is I am better off not having her in my life at all. Over a year later and a simple text really set me back. She will most likely forever have an effect on me. It seems, again like you, I will always love her. Perhaps I just don't know how to not love her. For that reason, for my own well being, I cannot have any contact with her at all.

 

 

So my advice to you after this experience is, even though you love your ex, I do think it is in your best interest to cut her off completely. As long as she thinks she can get something from you (emotional cushion), she will keep contact with you. I was pretty happy, and will be again, but having my ex contact me again did nothing but harm to me. She actually called me about a week later since I didn't respond. I didn't return the call either.

 

 

It is in my best interest, like it is yours, to not have any connection with my ex. It will only hold you back no matter how much you say you "don't care" either way. It does you no good keeping contact with her or staying involved. It is only bad for you. Don't take this the wrong way but your story is like a soap opera that just won't end. The drama just continues on and on until you decide to stop it.

 

 

Anyway, just thought I would share my most recent experience and hope you or anyone else can gain some insight from it.

[GoBroncs1983]

jt27, I'm sorry to hear of your recent setback. I've never had a cold, business like break of no contact from my ex like you experienced. When she contacts me, it's always about catching up, which turns into how she misses me and loves me, and boom, back together. This latest time, I set a boundary that we would be strictly friends...which is when she told me my replacement has BPD and they fight constantly. About a week later, they "broke up" - only to go on vacation a week later (after she told me she wouldn't put herself in a position like that with him). A week after THAT (about a week after my last big "update" post) he left her AGAIN. Two days later, back together.

 

As a neutral party, I sit back and look at the situation and wonder how she could put up with that nonsense. But then I realize that I did the same thing with her! She isn't as volatile as her current guy, but the push and pull is there. And I guess I can understand how she can't just leave him. I guess she needs to depend on him emotionally for attachment.

 

Around the time she went on vacation with him, a week after he packed up and left her, it was like something in my brain just popped off. Like a flame that was doused with water and extinguished. I still think about her every day, but I no longer desire a return trip to New York City with her. Or nights at her apartment watching movies. Or a life with her. I love her deeply, but it's like my emotions are properly in check now and I just don't care enough to think that way toward her.

 

And that also means I don't care enough to block her out of my life, either. It's like I don't want to give her that much emotional thought. I like talking to her, and yeah, I still want it to not work out with that new guy, but I guess knowing what she puts up with every day and that she obviously misses me has given me some sort of peace.

 

Jt, I know you haven't gotten that, and getting contacted for a simple selfish favor with nothing in return is quite cold. I would agree that you should just cut her out of your life.

 

I have found the best way to "get back" at my ex is to live MY life and be successful. When I talk to her, she still complains about her life, my replacement, her job, her weight, her living situation.....it's just at a distance now. I'm happy. I work out every day. I have a great job. I hang out with friends. I find myself traveling to places in the city because I want to go, not having to take my ex with me as "one" unit.

 

Creating new memories and time have been the biggest factor in me getting over her. I'm not there yet, but it's sure nice to not be thinking "what is she doing" all hours of the day.

 

Hang in there, jt. The distance from her will help.

[GoBroncs1983]

It has been nearly seven months, and if I stumbled upon this thread casually, or checked back on it after reading it previously, I would wonder how the OP was doing. Well, here is an update.

 

My ex and I continued to talk (usually via Facebook messenger, a handful of times on the phone) for several more months after my last post. Most of the conversation was just casual chit chat, but she would routinely let me know when she would fight with her new boyfriend, the guy she replacement me with who is a diagnosed BPD. Nearly every single time, she would relay how he stormed out of her apartment, and say that "this is it this time. I think we are done" but then go silent a day or so later, meaning it hadn't. She would be quite upset each time, and even called me once, sobbing over the phone. I was flabbergasted as to why she was staying with him, especially when she dumped me seven different times.

 

My uncle passed away near the end of July, and in his will left me (and my father) a considerable amount of inheritance. It's not life altering, but it was six figures, which allowed me to pay off all student/other loans and buy a new car, plus secure a nice downtown apartment that I will move into in May of this year. My ex knew my uncle was leaving me money (we spoke of it during our relationship), and when he passed away and I told her, she asked how much. I told her, and she became furious, saying she resented me and hated me for being so lucky. I was astounded at how negative she reacted to my good fortune. But then I remembered the BPD, and saw how she was painting herself as a victim of it all.

 

In early November she told me she couldn't message me anymore via phone, because Mr. BPD now was regularly asking to look at her phone and could possibly see our conversations. She let me know she had signed a lease with him for a downtown loft and was moving in December. I wondered why she would put herself in such a position, but then she told me she couldn't afford to live alone. A ha. She again spoke of resenting me for having money and moving downtown, saying "Oh I'm sure we will bump into each other down there sometime, that will be SO awesome for me."

 

I began dating someone around the same time, a mutual acquaintance who was a friend of a friend that I had met and hung out with a few times. She's older than I am (38, I'm 33) and owns her own business. And she adores and cares about my daughter, and plans events that we all can go to. She's a genuine, kind person, and after nearly three months with her, I am quite happy.

 

But I can't help but be hesitant after what happened with my BPD ex. It all seemed wonderful with HER, too. But at least with my new girlfriend, things aren't moving at a lightning pace. She has her own identity, her own house, her own friends, her own business. I don't feel like I am rescuing her. But it is still taking me time to accept that I'm with a good person.

 

I am still going to therapy twice a month. I took some diagnostic testing in October that resulted in a high "schema" (that's what it's called) toward "self sacrifice" - meaning I put the needs of others before my own, which leads to me resenting them if they don't want or need me. It was eye opening because it has been that way with me for years, even going back to friends in high school, and of course, my ex. I'm not sure if it's the same as codependent, but it seems right regarding my emotions. I was also told I "schemed" toward the "mania" of someone with Bipolar, which was alarming (I suppose). I don't feel like I fit the criteria for such a thing, although my intense emotions, especially with my ex, have always seemed a bit hardcore, like I can't let go. Obviously.....we are on page 9 or 10 of this thread.

 

I found out my ex did indeed move in with my replacement. Two BPDers under one roof. Of course, it's in the expensive downtown loft she had always bugged me to move to with her, but I didn't want to pay such a high rent. A mutual friend told me she has outfitted the place in IKEA furniture and posts a photo on Facebook every time she buys something new. Considering how she "resented" me for having money and kept saying how she couldn't afford anything, I find it interesting how she is buying all this stuff, living some silly fantasy life.

 

And of course my ex found out I was dating someone (not through me telling her, but mutual friends posting on Facebook) and lit into me about a month ago, saying how "predictable" it was that I was dating her, how "weird" and "incestuous" it was that I was with someone I knew, and how wrong it was because she (my ex) had met her before. She told me how much it upset her, how I was "ruining" her life (10 months after she dumped me for the 7th time) and that she couldn't talk to me anymore. Rather than plead with her, I told her I was sorry that she was upset, and respected her decision. Of course, she replaced me with the security guard at her work, and did everything she accused me of doing. Projection?

 

I haven't talked to her since. And I stopped looking at any of her social media profiles about three weeks ago (just a bunch of photos of her "gorgeous" new apartment), and my anxiety and interest in her is almost nonexistent. It was the silly final aspect of my obsession with her, post breakup, and it wasn't doing me ANY favors. And it wasn't fair toward my current girlfriend, even if I was just casually checking/stalking my ex. I'm proud of myself for making such a healthy decision.

 

So there you have it. My ex still resents me and gets upset at any positivity in my life, nearly a year after leaving me and replacing me. She moved in with the guy who has regularly fought and walked out on her for the last year, and is still acting like life is wonderful. I realize now that he's just a warm body to allow her to live her little fantasy life. The money will catch up soon, hopefully.

 

I'm doing well, loving my job, preparing to move this spring, and planning a solo vacation and a vacation with my daughter (taking HER to New York!) this summer. And I have a great girlfriend who reminds me constantly that I should stop thinking about my ex. But it's still a process. But man, what a difference it is for me emotionally from September of 2013.

 

Thank you all for your feedback during all of this. Feel free to validate that my ex is quite emotionally disturbed, please. Haha.

[Downtown]

What a wonderful surprise to find your latest update, GB! Have been wondering how you are doing. Am sorry to hear you lost your uncle but I'm very pleased to hear that your D11 is doing well and you have found what appears to be a healthy woman to date. More important, you are adjusting so well to dating her. I say this because, after dating a BPDer, the ex-partners generally complain that it is so difficult getting used to a new partner who doesn't set off fireworks coming out of the gate, during the first two weeks of dating.

 

She would fight with her new boyfriend .... who is a diagnosed BPD.

Like you, I'm surprised they haven't broken up permanently by now. If she has strong BPD traits as you believe, she has a strong need for a BF having a strong, stable personality that can center her and ground her. Her BPDer BF, of course, has the same need. This is why I said, in my June 13 post, that a relationship consisting of two BPDers typically fizzles out very quickly. When both partners are unstable, there is nobody to keep the R/S propped up and nobody to provide a stable sense of identity and direction.

 

I took some diagnostic testing in October that resulted in a high "schema" (that's what it's called) toward "self sacrifice" - meaning I put the needs of others before my own, which leads to me resenting them if they don't want or need me. It was eye opening because it has been that way with me for years.

I agree. That's why I observed two years ago that,

Like me, you seem to be an

excessive caregiver

who is strongly attracted to women who desperately need you. If

so

, your desire to be needed (for what you can do) far exceeds your desire to be loved (for the man you already are). I suspect that you are already starting to see the role you played in this toxic relationship, i.e., that of "white knight" who rides in to save the maiden from her unhappiness. [My 10/11/13 post.]

Our problem is not that we try to help people. Rather, it is that we keep doing so even when it is to our great detriment -- and even when our helping is counterproductive (as occurs when trying to help BPDers). The best explanation of how we got to be this way (i.e., excessive caregivers) in childhood is Shari Schreiber's blog article, Do You Love to be Needed, or Need to be Loved?.

 

Schreiber explains why guys like us will walk right on past all the emotionally available women (BORING!) and keep walking until we find a woman who desperately needs us. This is why the emotional vulnerability -- which BPDers are masters at projecting -- is like "catnip" to us. We caregivers can spot a vulnerable person across a crowded room.

 

I'm not sure if it's the same as codependent, but it seems right regarding my emotions.

That depends on how you choose to define "codependent." Because it is not considered a mental disorder, there is no definition for it in the APA's diagnostic manual (DSM-5). Indeed, the world's largest association devoted to codependency (CoDA) cannot even agree on how to define it. Instead, CoDA simply presents on its website a list of over 7 dozen traits that might be observed in codependents. That grocery list contains nearly everything except the kitchen sink.

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for the APA to define it in the diagnostic manual. As long as most major religions prescribe self sacrifice as the only sure path to heaven, and as long as nations rely on the self sacrifice of young people during wartime, there is zero chance the American Psychiatric Association will classify excessive caregiving (i.e., "codependency") as a mental disorder.

 

I was also told I "schemed" toward the "mania" of someone with Bipolar, which was alarming (I suppose). I don't feel like I fit the criteria for such a thing, although my intense emotions, especially with my ex, have always seemed a bit hardcore, like I can't let go.

I agree with you that you've not been describing any manic behavior. But it's funny you should mention mania and obsessive commitment again. You first mentioned it over two years ago:

"It may seem

manic and obsessive

, but at the core of all of my feelings is I had a girl that was (seemingly) completely devoted to me for three years." [Your 10/12/13 post.]

She let me know she had signed a lease with him for a downtown loft and was moving in December.... She again spoke of resenting me for having money and moving downtown.

Perhaps the four of us will bump into each other downtown and sit down to visit over cups of coffee. As you know, I am living "downtown" too!

[GoBroncs1983]

Thanks for checking out my reply, Downtown. Your advice and experiences have been a godsend for me throughout this two and a half year journey.

 

Like you, I'm surprised they haven't broken up permanently by now.

 

As am I. Aside from my own selfish and silly desire to see that relationship crash and burn, I'm honestly perplexed as to why my ex would remain with someone that volatile. The fact that the relationship started fresh off of breakups for both of them (a marriage for him, the divorce wasn't even final yet), I'm flabbergasted that it has lasted nearly a year and they now live together. When I talk to close friends about all of this, every single one of them asks, "Why is she still dating him?"

 

However, I never broke up with or walked out on her, so I never got to see how she would have reacted to such a thing. Maybe they both push and pull each other through their BPD fears.

 

I also think that if she were to leave him, she wouldn't (A) have been able to move downtown and out of her mom's apartment, and (B) wouldn't have a boyfriend to go out and do things with. The expensive loft, the IKEA furniture, those were things I vetoed when she would sit there and talk about NEEDING (not wanting) in order to be happy. I remember telling her point blank that buying a $3000 IKEA couch was absurd considering we still had the $1100 one (that I paid for) from our last apartment. After that, she said I didn't want to live with her because we didn't want the same things.

 

She already did that to me once - I had over $4000 in credit card debt from furniture, a bed, new dishes and silverware, coffee tables, etc when she and I stopped living together, and she never paid me the $2000 she promised she would to account for her "half." Now she has all of what she wanted, because she found someone who would buy it and do it all for her. I'm sure she gave him the same vulnerable sad NEED to my replacement, just like she did to me. But like your ex-wife with the piano and sewing equipment Downtown, it's only a matter of time before all of that wears thin and she's back to being unhappy. And now she has an equally (if not more) unhappy partner as well.

 

Could it be that she has now assumed the caregiver person in the relationship? All she wants is to maintain it, even though it's so crazy? Is she like I was, when she would fight with and leave me, and all I would want is for all of it to return to normal? I don't know. I honestly don't.

 

I will say one more thing about her - everything she has in her life - her job (she changed jobs in October), her living arrangement, her boyfriend, even the friends she hangs out with - NONE of them were in her life a year ago. All the friends, the job, the apartment, the boyfriend (me) have changed. BPDers switch it up all the time, don't they? They don't have long term friends, or jobs, or relationships?

 

Our problem is not that we try to help people. Rather, it is that we keep doing so even when it is to our great detriment.....

 

Definitely for me. I look back on those 5 or so years with my ex and I wonder why I kept trying to "fix" her. Why did I keep trying to make it work when she would tell me how it wasn't going to almost daily, and break up with me seven times? I guess I felt like it would be a waste and a failure to end it after so much investment. Now I realized I LEARNED from that experience and had great memories at times with her. It's okay to break up with someone if it isn't working. Yet, she made me feel like she would have been a lost puppy had I done so.

 

I can remember in the summer of 2011, as we were living together, and it was even about a month after her first breakup with me, her car died. I immediately thought about how I could buy a new car and she could have my old (paid off) one to drive.

 

And that's just what I did. I financed a used car that ended up being nearly a lemon and she drove my old car for about a year or so......until she bought/financed a brand new 2013 car, for herself - always had to have brand new everything. Why did I do that? Thank goodness I didn't put the car in her name and ended up selling it. I can remember my mother saying "If you two weren't together, what would she have done?" And she was right. My ex was a master at making it seem like there was no hope for her without my help. Her mom is her times 1000 with awful money troubles, and she stopped talking to her father years ago (red flag!). That's why I think she is with my replacement, his BPD and all. She can't do it alone, as much as she blabs on and on about moving to NYC and having a career.

 

It feels so damn good to be such a distance from her now. I don't live in fear of my girlfriend, and I don't walk on eggshells. I just hope I can learn that not everyone is like my BPD ex. Time has been kind to me, emotionally.

[Downtown]

BPDers switch it up all the time, don't they? They don't have long term friends, or jobs, or relationships?

Generally, BPDers don't have long-term close friends because, when people draw close, they start triggering the BPDer's two fears: abandonment and engulfment. My experience, however, is that such long-term relationships may last many years if that friend lives a long distance away. As to jobs, many BPDers jump from one field to the other, for the reasons you give. Some of the high functioning BPDers, however, may stay in one field and do very well at it. It therefore is not uncommon to find high functioning BPDers excelling in some very demanding professions.

 

Now I realized I LEARNED from that experience and had great memories at times with her.

Yes, you may have learned more about dysfunctional behavior than most men learn in a lifetime.

 

She made me feel like she would have been a lost puppy had I done so.

My experience was that walking away from a BPDer made me feel like I was abandoning a sick, vulnerable young child. Because BPDers exhibit the vulnerability, warmth, and purity of expressions that one sees in young children, it is very painful to walk away -- especially for us caregivers who are used to "fixing" things.

 

My ex was a master at making it seem like there was no hope for her without my help.

Yes, BPDers create havoc and chaos so as to continually be able to "validate" their false self image of being "The Victim." Yet, immediately after you've pulled her from the raging seas, she will jump right back into the water as soon as you turn your head. This, at least, was my experience, GB.

[GoBroncs1983]

I find myself re-reading this thread from time to time, as it has been quite a journey for myself.

 

I broke up with the girl I was seeing at the time of my last post. My decision. As much as I said things were going slowly, they quickly escalated. I decided to move into another apartment complex as the one I was going to move to kept having construction delays. That happened in February. I love it. It feels like my OWN place for the first time in my life. My daughter also has her own room on a separate level of the loft, which is great for her as she reaches teen age.

 

My girlfriend was a great help with the move, but began to suggest that SHE herself should move in with me shortly thereafter. She also showed strong flare ups of emotion, and talked about her mom being hard to get along with.

 

I put the brakes on things and told her that I wanted to enjoy my apartment as my own for a while before I could think about her moving in. Reminder, this is four months into the relationship. It was quite the change from my BPDex (original girl in this thread) where I leased an apartment with her three months in.

 

My recent ex has a strong and harsh bluntness to her, and our communication broke down as a result. She has admitted emotional issues due to her mother and father not being good parents as she grew up, although she seems to get along with them now. But the scars remain, and almost everything I did seemed to be invalidating to her. After two weekends in a row that ended with her sobbing in the restaurant and my car, I broke up with her. I must say, it felt good to make that decision for myself, instead of trying to "fix" her issues for more months or years.

 

She was great with my daughter and my parents, but not with me. Downtown, I have to admit I thought she may be a BPDer based on that - they don't endanger her fears, but I would.

 

We remain friendly, and I saw on Facebook over the weekend that she has a new boyfriend. Unlike my BPDex, I didn't feel upset over it. I had the same "watch out buddy!" toward the new guy as before, but I guess I'm not as affected. My therapist told me I probably wasn't really ever in love with her, and that could be why. I also think that because her issues are so present - most of our mutual friends have had to deal with her outbursts and know she has been dumped several times as a result - that I am comfortable being away from her and not caring who she sees.

 

My BPDex, however, she is such a master at masking her issues, making it seem like she is fine, blaming everyone and everything else for her unhappiness, I guess maybe THAT is why I'm still bugged by what happened with her, even though it was a year and a half ago? There are some BPDers (maybe my most recent ex is one, but I don't want to put in the effort to compare her to the traits) who are visibly distressed, but my ex isn't. You would never know unless you got close to her.

 

 

Speaking of that BPDex......

 

I have talked to her a few times, even though she told me last fall that she never wanted to speak to me again. She is still living with the BPD boyfriend she replaced me with, the guy she said she would never ever date. She told me she has "given up" on a relationship with him, saying they work "really well" as friends despite fighting almost daily. She said they haven't had sex in nine months, that he won't even let her see him naked. No affection of any kind, but they still hang out and do things together like a couple would.

 

A couple of days after dropping all of that on me, she told me they had "broken up" and he was moving out. A few weeks later, that was apparently rescinded as they took a vacation together and she bought a new car - all while regularly telling me she doesn't have any money and is constantly stressed.

 

I keep wondering to myself why she would continue with him, why she wouldn't want to be with me. She refuses to meet me even for coffee, saying she doesn't want him to find out. She can't text me after 5pm when she goes home to him. She complains that he has terrible taste in music and television, blah blah blah - she broke up with me seven times, but this guy keeps getting pass after pass. Why would she want to continue with him, even as friends, over me with all of that chaos?

 

I asked her, "Are you with him mainly because he provides the income for you to have that downtown loft and all of that nice furniture, and (most importantly) lets you design it how you would like?" She gave me the answer she always does when I'm right but she doesn't want to say so - "That's a loaded question." I'll quote my therapist when I told her that - "She found someone who would dive into the excess with her. You are mature and more responsible than she is. She wants to do do do and not think."

 

So here I am, living completely on my own for the first time in my life, enjoying the comfort of coming home from work and just crashing on the couch. My daughter and I are doing so many activities together, and I can focus on her instead of the girlfriend's issues as well. I got a puppy, which has technically given me more instant stress than any relationship (haha) but it's a fun companion. I don't even think about dating. Maybe it's the meds, maybe it's because I'm emotionally spent when it comes to that. But I really just like doing my own thing.

 

I'm still going to therapy, still working on myself. The decisions I have made in the last six months I would have never made when I started this thread. I still am irritated by my BPDex and hate how she is so masterful at masking all of her issues and appearing to have a wonderful life. But I am starting to realize that I have a pretty wonderful life of my own, and it's a lot better without her in it.

[SoThatHappened]

I still am irritated by my BPDex and hate how she is so masterful at masking all of her issues and appearing to have a wonderful life.

In spite of all the accomplishments mentioned before the quote above...

 

Why are you allowing her to still be part of your life? Why the communication?

 

It took me almost 2 years, but I couldn't care less how my BPD-trait-exhibiting-ex is doing, and I have no idea what she's doing.

[Downtown]

GB, welcome back! Thanks so much for being willing to share your travails and adventures with me, many other forum members, and the over 10,000 "lurkers" who have viewed your thread over the past three years. If I recall the timing of events correctly, your daughter just turned 12 and you've finished your initial classwork toward your M.S. degree (while working full time).

 

The two things I currently require for closure (to help in my recovery) are knowing that her chaos is still happening with him, and to know that she misses me.... I still long for her to reach out, so I can tell her no.... My hope is that I get to a point where I don't want that. My therapist certainly wants that for me, and I know all of you do, too. [Your 4/2/15 post.]

GB, that statement -- which you made over a year ago -- nicely sums up what it is we all have wanted for you. I therefore am very pleased to see, in your post today, that you seem to have finally arrived at that point -- or are getting very close to it. I find it especially encouraging that you made the following statement today:

I'

m

still going to therapy, still working on myself. The decisions I have made in the last six months I would have never made when I started this thread. I still am irritated by my BPDex and hate how she is

so

masterful at masking all of her issues and appearing to have a wonderful life. But I am starting to realize that I have a pretty wonderful life of my own, and it's a lot better without her in it.

[GoBroncs1983]

Wow, time flies, huh?

 

It has been over a year since I last posted here, and well, this might as well be my final post on this situation, and this ex-girlfriend. I have another reason to visit this forum about ANOTHER recent ex (one not even nearly as intense and complicated), but I'll save that for it's own topic post. Go seek it out if you would like.

 

A month after my last post, after much wrangling with my attorney threatening her mother to allow me to do so, I took my daughter (who will be 13 in October, wow) on a week long vacation to New York City, which she had asked for ever since I shared the memories and photos of my time there with my BPDex. We had an amazing time, and I consider it to be the greatest accomplishment of my life - exposing my daughter to a whole new world, so to speak, and creating lasting memories with her.

 

In December, we went on ANOTHER vacation, this time with my parents to San Francisco. Again, more amazing memories, places visited, and enormous fun.

 

I continue to battle her mother over parenting time, but it is what it is. I'm confident the court will figure it all out soon.

 

I'm still working at the same place, still living in the nice downtown loft, still enjoying my life. I have dated two women since my last post, one that lasted about seven months before we mutually decided to end it, and we remain great friends. I recently dated another girl for about a month and a half, and it seemed to be going great until she very abruptly left me to go back to an ex-boyfriend earlier this week. It stings, but not even a third as much as when my BPDex left. That tells me I've grown and realized my life isn't just about my partner.

 

I went back to New York, this time solo, in April of this year. Took in some Broadway shows, and had fun doing what I wanted to do in that city, for a change. It will always be a place I will want to visit.

 

And my BPDex? I talked to her off and on after my last post. I know she (and the boyfriend) had to move back in with her mom when they couldn't afford their spaceous downtown loft anymore, as I suspected would happened. She quit a $60k a year job she "hated" and only works part time now. She even asked me for money a couple of times. She's (I think) still with the replacement for me, and I saw her at a concert a few months ago when she tapped me on the shoulder and quickly waved. I felt fine afterward. I haven't talked to her or seen any sign of her in months, and I'm okay with it. At this point, I don't care if she's still with the same guy, or what she is up to. I don't even think I would be friends with her if she reached out at this point.

 

The three girlfriends I have had since her didn't work out, but each of them showed me that being with the BPDex was toxic and a mistake. More than anything else, she is immature about life, and her choices reflect that. I'm glad I don't have her weighing me down anymore. There is no way I would be living the same life had she stayed in it.

 

That's all I have, friends. Thank you all, especially Downtown, for your grace and suggestions and advice on this over the last two and a half years.

[trustyourself]

Wow,

 

Reading your thread front to back has been a revelation to me. I felt like I was reading about my ex and our issues!

 

I feel like if my ex does have BPD, it was maybe a little milder than what you experienced, but it definitely correlates.

 

I only dealt with her breaking up with me 3 times though. You can read my rather long thread about it if you like

 

Your experience has really opened up my eyes to what i have been dealing with.

 

I refused to remain friends though. I care too much to watch her move on. This time she left me, she ran to some other dude she met on a vacation the week before the breakup. She did not even have the balls to tell me though. Blamed it on her parents disapproval and the fact she thought we could not be fixed.

 

Found out through mutual friends as well...

 

Obviously like you, that is the final straw. I cant take her back now.

 

She is much like your ex. Live in the moment, everything needs to be exciting. Mood swings, projection etc etc. Always everyone elses fault.

 

She would always talk about moving and starting a new life in San Diego too. :confused:

 

Its still hard to let go. i hope I have the strength you had. I am terrified she will be back in touch. If she is anything like your ex, it sounds like she will be.

 

Glad to hear you are doing well.

[Downtown]

Wow, Reading your thread front to back has been a revelation to me. I felt like I was reading about my ex and our issues! I feel like if my ex does have BPD.

Trust, I'm glad to hear that you found GoBronc's experiences helpful in shedding light on your recent relationship. I have responded by posting in your most recent thread.