Karma

[Cinnimon]

I've been reading on the Infidelity boards from time to time, trying to learn about all sides of this tangled mess. I have learned a lot. But I must say that I feel like wishing bad karma on the OP is like wishing it upon yourself. If the OP deserves karma such as has been said, whether it be a death in the family or severe health issues for themselves or loved ones, then anything that happens to the mm/mw and their loved ones would be considered Karma too wouldn't it?

 

And I also see the OP being being called, POS, whore, mate stealer, home wrecker and so on and so forth. If that is what the OP is considered to be then what does that make the MM/MW? They just made a mistake? There would be no OP without the MM/MW. Just an observation.

[bentleychic]

I've been reading on the Infidelity boards from time to time, trying to learn about all sides of this tangled mess. I have learned a lot. But I must say that I feel like wishing bad karma on the OP is like wishing it upon yourself. If the OP deserves karma such as has been said, whether it be a death in the family or severe health issues for themselves or loved ones, then anything that happens to the mm/mw and their loved ones would be considered Karma too wouldn't it?

 

And I also see the OP being being called, POS, whore, mate stealer, home wrecker and so on and so forth. If that is what the OP is considered to be then what does that make the MM/MW? They just made a mistake? There would be no OP without the MM/MW. Just an observation.

I agree with you that if one feels that way about the OW/OM, it also applies to their WS.

 

I personally, don't agree with karma, really. (Though I joke about it tongue in cheek sometimes.) I think most things that happen to us are a direct result due to choices (but those are consequences, not karma). I cannot believe that someone's relative dying is due to karma (for example) nor do I feel that life threatening diseases, children being sick, etc. is due to choices that we make in life. (Unless, of course, it's a disease/sickness directly related to a choice that we make. Say a mother incessantly smoking around a child with asthma and causing health issues or a drunk driver killing his entire family in a car accident. THAT I can understand as a choice causing harm to the family, but still not karma.)

[threelaurels]

I doubt very many BS truly believe in karma. After all, the BS rarely has done something to "deserve" being cheated on and betrayed by the person they trust most in the world. Even if they have been mean/neglectful/whatever, the punishment would not be proportional to the crime.

[bentleychic]

I doubt very many BS truly believe in karma. After all, the BS rarely has done something to "deserve" being cheated on and betrayed by the person they trust most in the world. Even if they have been mean/neglectful/whatever, the punishment would not be proportional to the crime.

That's a good point. I had not that about it in that regard, either.

[busdriver]

Ironically, posts like that make me grateful that my W doesn't feel this way about my OW. Although I can't say I really know, for all I know maybe she is one of the people posting ugly things like this.

 

Our marriage counselor has stressed to me that my thoughts about my OW, the ones leading up to our EA and the thoughts I still have now, are my responsibility. I choose, on some level, to entertain them. Now, a great many people here would say that nothing my W has done or will ever do can justify me entertaining, feeding or acting on those thoughts. No matter what she ever said or did, no matter if she hurt me in any way, as long as she didn't cheat, because that's the ONLY kind of hurt that matters, right?

 

So what justifies these hateful thoughts about OW's here? She hurt the BS? Sure. But if there's no level of hurt that could excuse me for my fantasies, why does the OW's role in the A excuse fantasizing about harm (or reveling in harm) to the OW? And worse, repeating those ugly thoughts to others in your situation so they can feed on that negative emotion?

 

I know I'm the horrible irredeemable sinner in my scenario, but wishing harm on someone else, ANYONE else, or rejoicing in their misfortune, is ugly and twisted and frankly pathetic. I get that these thoughts maybe give someone a sense of regained power, and that supposedly justifies it. But if we're going to pretend that 'karma' is responsible for an OW's misfortune, then what do you imagine is responsible for your spouse cheating?

 

Again here is my obvious disclaimer that this is a philosophical question, and not an actual attempt to say that karma is real, or that anyone's actions justify cheating. Sackcloth, ashes, etc.

[TheOW]

Karma is the biggest load of bull crap, it's not real it doesn't exist if you really look into "karma" you will realise yourself! It's like saying that 8 year old girl must have done something in her former life to deserve cancer or that little boy who is being abused he must of done something too.

 

You can't pick and choose what "type" of karma you believe in, you either do believe it fully not just what you want to believe.

[Journee]

I'm not too much into Karma or it's origins. I think statements about participants getting their come uppins is grown from pain. People here vent and moan somedays. Others, they might even joke around with a poster with opposing views or sets of letters. It's hard to harness all of the emotions that fly around after DDay. The defensive posting that is so prevalent I believe stems from pain.

 

I still find it odd that in so many threads the BS is pretty much expected to take the high road at all times. Everyone has said or done something that hurts another. I would never wish ill upon OW in my situation. There have been three that I'm. aware of. Oddly enough I saw the latest one at the park today. We both had our children and were busy being mothers. The world didn't stop turning and I didn't burn hot with rage. She didn't slink away like a snake or poof into thin air. We were mothers ushering children in and out of car seats and seat belts.

 

I don't wish her harm or further pain. I have prayed for her. I learned a lot about her when we were face to face a year ago. She was in a bad place in life. She made some decisions that she didn't realize or care would lead to our meeting. Just as any anger I have felt towards her in the aftermath has not been planned. It just happens as is so popular a saying. I'm an emotional person. I feel my way through life. Yet, I would never want her to suffer. The world is rough enough as it is.

 

I'm actually glad I saw her today. We both are stronger than I think we realized about ourselves. Both just trying to make it through life and try not to mess things up too awful much.

 

My life will go on and so shall her's.

[thecharade]

You are so right, Journee. I must say that regardless of how a dday shakes out and an MM acts, the OW really must understand the pain a BS faces, right? How could we not all imagine what it must be like?

 

No, there are no winners in these things.

[Journee]

You are so right, Journee. I must say that regardless of how a dday shakes out and an MM acts, the OW really must understand the pain a BS faces, right? How could we not all imagine what it must be like?

 

No, there are no winners in these things.

 

 

I try to cut myself some slack. It's ok to be hurt and to be angry. To not have reasons behind every feeling. To just feel it and try to work on letting that feeling go at some point. That mulling around certain truths is ok.

 

It's very confusing to be in love with someone and find out about their cheating. You hate them but you love them. They repulse you yet you want them badly. It's manic and depressive.

 

We cannot all be stoic in our approach or description of those we feel have hurt us. It's much easier and less graceful to let fly here and there. To let your motto for life be " Don't tread on me!".

 

How does one remain rational in an irrational circumstance?

It feels impossible. It feels futile. Why even try? ya know?

 

I dunno. It's all very surreal and as I sit here just absorbing it all into my consciousness it is still very overwhelming.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I've been reading on the Infidelity boards from time to time, trying to learn about all sides of this tangled mess. I have learned a lot. But I must say that I feel like wishing bad karma on the OP is like wishing it upon yourself. If the OP deserves karma such as has been said, whether it be a death in the family or severe health issues for themselves or loved ones, then anything that happens to the mm/mw and their loved ones would be considered Karma too wouldn't it?

 

And I also see the OP being being called, POS, whore, mate stealer, home wrecker and so on and so forth. If that is what the OP is considered to be then what does that make the MM/MW? They just made a mistake? There would be no OP without the MM/MW. Just an observation.

 

 

I have seen the MM (not often the MW) be called POS....so many times..I can not even count..by just about everyone. I have read so many posts saying the OW was manipulated by player POS MM, ummm no the OW was not...unless the OW did not know he was married.

 

As far as what a BS might think of the OW/OM, I liken it this. I have a choice in how I enter someones life. Regardless of how insignificant, whether it be the nurse I see, or a cashier, I decide whether I will treat them with respect, and leave them feeling good about having known me...if only for a minute. Or to leave them worst off having had me in their life, the choice is mine. An OW/OM makes a choice in how she entered the BS life, and accept that they decided to hurt the BS and all that that means.

[GatsbyMH]

I never thought I'd be this person who was in love and intimate with a married woman. I always held myself up to the highest ideals and morals. I always tried to better myself in what ways I could. I didn't want to be "that guy."

 

Falling in love with a married woman (while I was still married) was the wrong thing to do, most everyone would probably agree. Yet, I had no choice. I'd loved her since I first laid eyes on her. Becoming her friend for 5 years (with only the intention to be friends) felt right. The more I knew her the more I felt she was the only person on this planet I could ever truly love. I endeavored to love her as best I could since she was married to an alright guy, not a guy I thought was best for her but not a bad guy.

 

Then she said she had feelings for me. The world shook and we became more than best friends. It felt perfect and right. I couldn't fathom how being in love with my best friend could be a bad thing.

 

As my marriage ended and her is slowly ending we both have felt torturous amounts of pain from it all. Jealousy and feelings of betrayal on both ends. My marriage ended because I wasn't happy in my marriage for years before I met the other woman. It ended without any knowledge of my infidelity. It's similar in the other womans marriage, but he knows she has feeling for me, and I her.

 

As we are still progressing through all this we feel so much pain so often. I got to wondering if Karma really isn't some special entity rolling around through the world smiting those who have done others wrong. I wondered instead if Karma could be the pain we must experience in these things because we have visited the same pain onto good people.

 

I dunno. Just a theory. I just know that I know that she wants to be with me and will be with me in the future. She's only staying around for the kids, and I believe her. But the jealousy I feel is insane. It hurts so bad. I feel betrayed sometimes too since she and her husband aren't having a sexual relationship but he knows if attacks while she's sleeping she is vulnerable. So, something happens and we both hurt. I hurt because of feeling betrayed and she hurts because she feels she's cheated on me.

 

And these pains I feel and she feels, would be the pain we would have inflicted upon others had they known the truth. I often think I deserve to feel this pain. I felt like a monster so often. Wanting her to slip up and get caught so that it ends faster. Even though it would deprive her of her kids...

 

Sorry, a bit off topic. I'm a little anxious today and needed to vent a little.

 

/hijack.

[goodyblue]

The thing that bothers me more than anything about name calling is the OW being called a 'thief'. You cannot steal a person. It's silly and it blameshifts away from the WS. That's just me, but it really does grind my gears.

[hermione08]

Karma is the old adage what goes around comes around. Why not? If you behave horribly you should be punished. My ex MM lied to me, not only as MM but also as my fiancé many years ago. I hope he rots in hell, possibly in this life, since I'm an atheist.

[goodyblue]

I never wished anything bad upon my guys ex. I just knew he was unhappy and he did leave. Now everyone is moving on and healing. To me, that's a good thing. I'm sorry you were hurt, but having such ugly thoughts only hurts you.

[cif]

Karma exists. Whether a person wishes for it or not, what you put into the universe comes back to you. That could be to you individually, loved ones, possessions etc. It only makes sense. Water seeks its own level.

[cif]

And i dont need to wish ill on X, it's already happening. So i can just sit back and watch.

[spice4life]

Hi cinnamon,

 

I stopped by for a peak and your post really stood out to me and I took some time to think about it. Here are my thoughts.

 

I think it is a good thing you are having these thoughts because it means you have feelings. Maybe it is guilt and I happen to think that is a good thing. It means you have compassion and empathy about the situation. The fact that you are even asking this question means you are looking within and searching for why you ended up in this place to begin with. That is a wonderful place to be so don't stress yourself about it and just go with it instead and see where it takes you. You are on the brink of an incredible self discovery and I happen to think that is what life is ALL about.

 

I myself have been faced with a situation that brought back a ton of bad memories about something that happened to me. I wont lie and say that it didnt bring back the hate I had for the people involved; the hate came back too albiet it was brief. I honestly felt like saying "tough shiz, deal with it like I had to" to those people, but I pulled back and dealt with my feelings about it instead. I don't wish them harm in any way because they harmed themselves enough to be honest. And my only wish now is that they ask themselves the tough questions you are beginning to ask. We all make mistakes, but it is how you deal with them that counts. If you acknwledge the mistake and use it as an opportunity to grow then you are headed down the right path for you.

 

In the end wondering about him or anyone else getting their come uppins is only going to hold you back from your own journey. You have no control over them; you only have control of the knowledge the situation has taught you. Embrace it like you are and let it help YOU grow. You are in a great place even if you dont feel it right now.

 

Take care and I hope you find the peace you are searching for.

[MuddyFootprints]

Karma is balance.

 

I don't think it is external and I question its "universal force".

 

Perhaps it is our challenge to develop the ability to shift our own internal fulcrum into a position of acceptance, forgiveness, and love?

 

I am hoping that is how I will find my peace, anyway.

[bentleychic]

Oh I don't know. I believe in it in the sense that if you habitually do others wrong it WILL come back to bite you.

 

You don't shiat on so many people and have all of them not give you what is coming. Most people won't stoop to the level, but if you do it so many times, there is going to be that one person that hands you your ass. (saying you as in people in general, not "you" TheOW)

See, I still consider this consequences, not karma. Isn't that what we all teach our children from the moment they can understand as toddlers? Action = consequence?

[ladydesigner]

See, I still consider this consequences, not karma. Isn't that what we all teach our children from the moment they can understand as toddlers? Action = consequence?

 

Agree Bentley.

 

Yeah I'm not sure I believe in Karma. I think Tara is the poster here who knows a lot about it.

 

My WH has suffered the worse consequences (karma) from his A. His life really fell apart right after Dday, as did mine, the MOW, the MOW's BS, and all of the kids involved.

[2sure]

I think we are all talking about Karma used as a casual term for : you get what you give, what goes around comes around, it comes back to you, etc.

 

I believe in all of those things . If I describe karma as what I've said above, then I've been both it's vehicle and it's recipient.

 

Some of you know that I was OW, a few times over prior to getting married and becoming BS. So, of course I told myself I should have expected it. That it was the universes way of balancing things out.

 

But that's not what happened.

 

As OW I became comfortable with "mostly honest" , with accepting good intentions instead of integrity, with the distance that is natural in a relationship that is a part, not all, of each partners life .

 

So, when I remarried I brought that comfort level with me, and I married a man that was mostly honest, had great intentions, little real integrity, and the ability to compartmentalize his life.

 

I married the kind of man I had become comfortable with . A cheater. I had forgotten what a healthy relationship consisted of I guess.

 

It was a lesson, it wasn't the universe , or karma, or my god. It was just my hard lesson to learn.

[2sure]

I SO enjoy your posts and wisdom!

 

Thanks! But it's not wisdom, it's more like I'm one of those people that needs to burn my hand twice to know the stove is hot!

[AlwaysGrowing]

I once believed in Karma. And everything happens for a reason. Destiny. Meant to be. Until...a wise person asked...please tell me what a child who is molested, abused, murdered, has a life threatening disease...did.. to deserve that? I could not answer. What could a child have done? I could think of anything. How about a rape victim? Or a victim of murder? Or assault? Again, not a thing.

 

So, in the end. If they didn't do anything to cause it. And bad things happen to good people all the time. Then karma does not exist as to how most people view it.

 

Actually, IF.ONLY.PEOPLE.GOT.WHAT.THEY.DESERVED. The universe would cull the herd nicely. And oh how beautiful the world would be right now.

 

The truth is...people make choices. Choices have consequences. If people don't look at the choices they make, they are more likely to repeat them,or put themselves in the same situation. Regardless of that though, there are millions of other people making choices that can impact our life...without our input. We have no control over their choices.

 

So...at the end of the day. I can live a life...as peaceful and as loving as perfect as can be. I can walk to the store to buy groceries to make my children their favourite meal...and a drunk driver can disregard the traffic lights and kill me while I cross in a lit crosswalk. Nothing I could have done, would have prevented my death. Everyone expects to cross with the lights, safely. I did nothing wrong, crossed the crosswalk within the agreed upon rules, and still....someone else..decided...the rules didn't apply to them, and I and my family suffer because of it. Karma? Or another persons poor choices?

 

 

Having said that..do I think that one can live their life that is more conducive to having one set of outcomes than another. Of course. If I don't go for higher education, then I am limiting my options. Less doors will open up. If I decide to use drugs...will I surround myself with people who are more likely to encourage me to be self destructive and engage in criminal activity....yes.

 

Is it karma....or consequences of my choices...or the misfortune of having run into a person who is self destructing...and I am collateral damage?

[cocorico]

I doubt very many BS truly believe in karma. After all, the BS rarely has done something to "deserve" being cheated on and betrayed by the person they trust most in the world. Even if they have been mean/neglectful/whatever, the punishment would not be proportional to the crime.

 

I think one of the reasons people had so little sympathy for my H's BW was because they considered that she had done enough to "deserve" what happened to her. Not only the decades of abuse and neglect, but her own previous unrepentant role as WS, and her continued defence of her "right to cheat". I guess they felt that what happened to her was simply consistent with the worldview she painted - that a spouse who felt stunted or thwarted in a M had every right to seek happiness and self-actualisation elsewhere, and the other spouse should simply lump it as their dues for not enabling the SPF-actualisation of their spouse within the M. And anyway, monogamy was unnatural, M was a farcical stricture, and none of it really mattered. So I guess they were a little perplexed when she changed her tune simply because she was now on the receiving end.

 

Personally, I'm not a great believer in the "eye for an eye" mentality. While I may agree that her behaviour predisposed her discovering people didn't like her or treat her with respect, I didn't relish that she got "whacked by the karma bus" or revel in her misery. I still hope that she can learn from the experience and open herself to healthier R styles, and that her kids can make peace with her and overcome their own self-esteem battles rather than getting caught up in some multi-generational karmic feeding frenzy.

 

And if she pokes pins into effigies of my H and I, that doesn't really affect me one way or another. It simply traps her in her own cage of bitterness, and if she really must insist on continuing drive byes, harassment, petty sabotage or other childish behaviours, then ultimately she will face the criminal consequences of her actions. That is not karma, that is the consequences of her own freely chosen behaviour.

[hippetyhop]

I'm thinking karma will happen to me: I will never find a trustworthy man since I've been untrustworthy by interfering with a M, or I'll never find someone like xMM (humor, intimacy, etc); and nothing will happen to xMM. I'm not saying I want him to spontaneously combust, but, he will never feel the hurt I am feeling right now.