Why do men want to be married?

[Ninjainpajamas]

I'll be honest, I've always seen marriage in a pessimistic light...not just for men either, for women as well but this will be geared more towards men for obvious reasons.

 

In my eyes, when I have looked at married men throughout my life (I'm 33 now) It has always rang a similar bell in my mind as something akin to inmates in a state penitentiary or a broken in horse.

 

He's no longer free to roam the wild plains, kicking out his legs wild, going where he pleases. He doesn't have to answer to anyone and he's not criticized for doing this, that and the other thing just because he feels like it...instead he's disciplined and trained by his owner to respond to clicking noises and non-verbal queues, a swift kick in the rear to get him going and a pull on the reins to slow him down...he's no longer doing what he's born to do by his own free will and adventurous heart, he just goes back to his stable like the well-disciplined horse he is with his head hung down lightly bouncing as he heads to the same exact place he knows where he belongs now all on his own...to be fed at certain times and is expected to do what he is supposed to do determined by his trainer for the rest of his life..."perform" essentially, until he breaks a leg in which he is shot then replaced with a new fresh stallion...oh wait, that's men...sorry about that last one ladies!

 

And to disperse the cloud of "marriage is great for me yadda yadda" it's not all marriages...but it's definitely most of the ones I've seen! I don't see people become "happier" because of marriage, and they definitely seem to become more stressed and overwhelmed with the induction of children.

 

I often don't even see couples enjoying their children, they seem stressed, easily agitated, exhausted and bitter over the drain of emotional and personal sacrifice in which it takes to accommodate these helpless children who are entirely dependent on mom or dad at all times, where they either argue or draw straws of who's got to take little Timmy to the toilet. Always seems to be some power struggle of responsibility and one partner seems to one to tap out earlier than the other.

 

The men look stressed out, at work or at home but half of them seem to rather be at work or anywhere but home. They never seem to appear like they can actually relax, they always have some job or task to do, or some nagging voice in their back of their minds of what they've got to do before they get home or something the wife might have mentioned that god forbid they forget before showing up home empty handed. They always seem to physically appear like men who just ran a marathon no matter what they did that day and they mumble and grumble through their day with a short-fuse and some days seem like they could care less if they accidentally wandered into traffic.

 

Kids seem to take precedence over all other things and seem to be the focus of the couple, sex life seems to plummets off the charts in good time because many married guys will make comments about women that don't even look that great but seem hyper excited about as it is their one simple glimpse of happiness and sexual pleasure/fantasy...and they're going to treasure that and put it in a little box in the back their minds for later so that when they get the three minutes of alone time at home they'll rub one out to the image of that random girl he saw walking across the street who was "hot"...so romance seems to fall off completely, indifference seems to weigh in and complacency to all other relationship factors seem to fall off onto the way side and both individuals struggle to carry their own weight and responsibility, losing their independence.

 

Now you're probably thinking "oh you've only seen certain married couples, me and my husband are sooooo happy"....well for one ladies, men sing a completely different tune when you're not perched on branch watching over them like an eagle, when they actually speak freely and indiscriminately to a stranger such as myself and I can tell you from experience you might not have a clue how your husband truly feels, women seem to often sweep issues under the rug and somehow stamp an "A" approval on the front window because from their perspective, down-grading all the issues/problems because it's all fixable or a work-in-progress and they trust that he's happy without even communicating that other than a simple "mic-check"..."you happy honey?"..."yea sure".

 

I've worked for a number of years in peoples homes, which has given me a broad perspective of how the different kinds of people live, economically and culturally speaking.

 

Now I'm not claiming everyone was miserable and unhappy, but I can't tell you how many unhappy married couples and individuals I've encountered over the years that I've played therapist and shoulder-to-lean on while doing my work...sometimes there's nothing like telling a stranger all of your personal problems.

 

And I truly feel bad for people, I genuinely feel sorry for them that they have to live this life of unhappiness and discontent, because at the end of the day you know that both people are suffering from this lifestyle...and that for whatever reason they are stuck in the situation they are in and dealing with the circumstances together even if they're confronting them separately...I've already been advised by men the wiser who were experienced being married to not get married and I've struggled to see the "bright-side" of things always trying to convince myself that maybe they were just biased, being even objectively I cannot rationalize it, because I've encountered so much sadness and hardship from these people.

 

Not to get even get into divorce, I've seen people who looked just torn from the outside in, you could see it in their faces and eyes like if they just aged 30 years from all the emotional turmoil that must have taken it's toll on their hearts and souls just bearing the burden of that transition. They appeared visibly ravaged, I could only imagine how they must feel as I'm sure they tried their best to deflect their internal pain and keep it from the outside world but did not have the power to withstand it because they appeared just grind down to a point where they couldn't even care anymore...they were transparent even if they tried to hide it.

 

So at the end of the day, with that being said...if not happening now in your marriage but a possibility, or even if you are right now in this exact situation...what makes it worth it? and why do people continuously fight and force themselves to be with people when they are so unhappy because of a title and oath? like it's some honorable bond that one must make at the figurative round table amongst the knights and King Arthur, and it is better to burn in the lake of fire of your despair than it is to imagine leaving this "marriage".

 

Trust me, my word is my bond...I've always tried to live that way and always try to follow through even with the smallest thing that I say...but at some point you've got to take a look and realize if it's all really worth it...because today is reality, potential or hope is uncertain at best. I do believe people take marriage too easy come, easy go, but at the end of the day it seems like the right choice...rather than force yourself to endure something like that.

 

But the reason I've spent so much time on this post is because why is this still something people perceive as necessary in their lives? What do you hope to gain out of it? and did you get out of it what you wanted/expected? Did it make you happier? Did it add to your love life? did the sacrifice of your freedom and personal space seem a worthy trade-off for a life partner that provides a level of security?

 

At the end of the day, I feel like people don't really think of what they expect to gain or develop in a marriage...they just simply do it, because of some idealistic image in their minds or even cultural/social influence that is still perceived as something that is going to make you happier and somehow fix all your problems and give it to you...but does it really deliver? What am I missing here as an inexperienced man in terms of the marriage realm (with no kids but wanting them one day)? but not at all inexperienced in relationships or women.

 

Although this is geared towards men, keep in mind I'm not "blaming women", I'm asking men from a man's point of view...I've seen what seemed to be very good women as well, unhappy with their marriage to what seemed to be in large part of the man's inexcusable behavior but that's a whole other thread.

 

*looking for feedback from the long-term married/older crowd, not the honeymooners or just married young in your 20's*

[Eternal Sunshine]

As a woman I absolutely agree with everything you said. It looks the same from my side as well and from my observations. People often like to confide in me and I have heard all kinds of miserable stories (and those didn't even involve abuse or cheating).

 

To me, marriage feels like tying a 100lbs rock around yourself and dragging it anywhere you go. Add more weight for each child. People to me seem like they have already died inside and are just going through the motions of life. Each day they wake up with a list of chores to do, rinse and repeat, like a conveyer belt that never ends.

 

I recently asked someone why did she get married and she responded to get to the next stage of life. Like life is a computer game with getting married is necessary to get to level 5, having children is level 6 and I guess that leaves death for level 7.

 

Ninja, see a movie Blue Valentine - it's one of the most realistic potrayals of marriage I have seen and it's not just my opinion either.

[Eivuwan]

Isn't this why we try to find people who are compatible with our lifestyle, value, interests etc...? Of course people will be miserable if they get married just for the sake of getting married.

[Outsider77]

I'm not a man but it sounds like you are assuming that every man thinks the same way you do. Not every man wants the things that you want, and not every woman wants to control a man or even to be married.

 

I know of men that aren't as motivated by sex and freedom and really want the comfort of family. I agree that women in general tend to want the stability of family and men in general tend to want sex and freedom but generalizations don't mean that much on an individual level.

 

As for me, I'm not really sure I want to be married. I don't know what I want, but I'm keeping an open mind.

 

Marriage just doesn't work for some people and does work for others. You have to be compatible, honest, and be able to compromise. I agree that it seems like people just want different things, aren't honest with themselves or their partners about what they want and just end up miserable. Emotional intelligence probably plays a big part.

 

You're still relatively young so you really don't know how you will feel in a few years. Sometimes people outgrow their need to have freedom and want the stability, comfort and love that marriage can bring. There are a lot of positives in marriage if it's done right. I think sometimes you just meet the right person and realize you don't ever want to live without them. There's no harm in being open-minded because you never know what the future may bring.

[Eggplant]

Ninja, have you ever been madly in love?

[man_in_the_box]

Since my feedback is explicitly not requested I'll just keep it to a general statement: all these negative phenomena you are mentioning is the result of how men and women treat eachother. Marriage is just a human made institution - it does not have a mind of its own. Marriage cannot control people, hurt people, neglect people, drain people or whatever else you deem it responsible for. It's the people in the marriage that do this to one another - and they can do it to eachother outside of the marriage to. People hurt people - not untangible concepts.

[Grumpybutfun]

Ninja:

I have been married for almost 20 years. I think it is because we want to share our lives with someone. We want family, a sense of belonging to accompany our everyday struggles and successes. We want someone who reflects our love, commitment and sense of fun back at us so we can enjoy the everyday human experience. We like the adventure of having another person in our minds and hearts and homes.

Honestly, I do not recognize the marriages you described or relate to the horse analogy. I am the most free and the most me when she is with me. We are traditional people, but you in no way have to ever get married. The great thing about life is that you get choices. I chose to marry the woman who made me laugh, made me passionate about the universe, made me want to be a good man, supported me even through the rough days, and who lays down with me at night and lays her head on my chest.

It is definitely unfortunate, as man in the box said, that people choose to treat each other with contempt and drama. It is one of life's greatest mysteries to me why people who are supposed to be the other person's everything lies, cheats, harasses, calls each other names and are generally just asses to each other.

I personally find that my marriage is my greatest accomplishment, and my wife often says the same thing. A good marriage lets me face the world with the best person I have ever known at my side and having my back.

Old Fashionedly,

Grumps

[JourneyLady]

People to me seem like they have already died inside and are just going through the motions of life. Each day they wake up with a list of chores to do, rinse and repeat, like a conveyer belt that never ends.

 

You don't have to be married to feel like that, believe me. In order to go where I'm headed, every day is very similar and there is a list of chores to be done every morning and every week... It IS the conveyor belt.

 

Most people are tired of working at something they don't really enjoy, but aren't taught how to do anything else or how to make a living doing what they love. As a result, they are largely unhappy... My belief is that while marriage isn't going to make them happy, it does give them someone to share it with, hopefully (in the beginning at least) someone who's there to listen to their troubles etc. But over time, the relationship is not maintained>

 

From your perspective, is "living together" any different? Are those people any happier? OR do they merely experience all the same stuff and then trade in the partner for a new one when the relationship gets old... And start all over. Most people get married partly because they are tired of dating. It gets old, especially after several disappointments.

 

We may be moving into a "Short term" rather than "lifelong" marriage system where people promise to stay together for 5 or 10 years at a time and then either renew or move on... That may, actually, change the character of marriage if both partners realize their chosen person could leave that easily.

[Eternal Sunshine]

You don't have to be married to feel like that, believe me. In order to go where I'm headed, every day is very similar and there is a list of chores to be done every morning and every week... It IS the conveyor belt.

 

Most people are tired of working at something they don't really enjoy, but aren't taught how to do anything else or how to make a living doing what they love. As a result, they are largely unhappy... My belief is that while marriage isn't going to make them happy, it does give them someone to share it with, hopefully (in the beginning at least) someone who's there to listen to their troubles etc. But over time, the relationship is not maintained>

 

From your perspective, is "living together" any different? Are those people any happier? OR do they merely experience all the same stuff and then trade in the partner for a new one when the relationship gets old... And start all over. Most people get married partly because they are tired of dating. It gets old, especially after several disappointments.

 

We may be moving into a "Short term" rather than "lifelong" marriage system where people promise to stay together for 5 or 10 years at a time and then either renew or move on... That may, actually, change the character of marriage if both partners realize their chosen person could leave that easily.

 

I think that living together has one big advantage: exiting is simpler and people tend to leave earlier if they become unhappy. Typically marriage takes few miserable years to disintegrate because people are bound by law and a sense of duty. If kids are in the picture it's 100 times more complicated.

[GoodOnPaper]

To enjoy such "freedom", you need disposable income and the ability to attract women. My 20s were full of school, rejection, and being at the bottom of the professional totem pole. At the time it seemed best to go along with the one woman who showed a legitimate LTR interest in me. There are difficulties -- when I was single, my life was too empty. Now, my life is too busy. I don't think that part can be avoided no matter when and whom you marry. Marriage and kids have taught me to handle more responsibility than I ever thought I could. Unfortunately, I was hoping that the regrets from single life would have been erased - that didn't happen. But if I didn't marry when I did, I could have very well descended into a much deeper darker place that I could never dig myself out of. So, there are pros and cons no matter which direction you choose.

[theothersully]

Oh wow... this is a sad thread. I'm more disturbed by the women's posts than the men's.

 

To think the state of the public psyche is this screwed up. Marriage is not a weight or rock (kids sure are). Marriage is sharing your life with someone who you share common values with. Someone who is there for you and you are there for them no matter what happens. Someone you feel so comfortable with (and yes, still giddy after 20 years) that you could be thrown on a deserted island and still be just as happy as can be talking with each other and laughing.

 

It's about adventure, fun and sharing life with someone. It's about loving and being loved. It's about stability and a sense of not having to fight for everything. It's about shared/pooled resources that enable 2 people to succeed in life faster and easier than one.

 

Most importantly, it's about waking up every single day and knowing that you are happy to share a new day of adventures with the one you love.

 

Marriage is another, more permanent step in being with someone. Yes, kids destroy it every time. I always notice that. However, marriage itself is one of the most wonderful things you can share with another human being. (you have to pick the right one though)

 

ANSWERING THE OP's QUESTIONS...

 

But the reason I've spent so much time on this post is because why is this still something people perceive as necessary in their lives? What do you hope to gain out of it? You gain a lifetime of things to share with someone special at a level people who have never been married cannot understand. You gain a partner you can count on and trust implicitly. It's as necessary now as it ever was. Times haven't changed so much that lasting love is no longer something people seek.

 

 

and did you get out of it what you wanted/expected?

I did not get what I expected out of my 10 year marriage (12 year relationship). There were some great times, there were some more difficult times, but those difficult times would have happened if I were alone as well. The great FAR outweighed the difficult. Once we got settled in on how to work with each other, thing were very smooth. Mine ended in divorce due to borderline personality disorder. We literally lost control of it completely. Last year, there was one day she said, "I love you, can't wait to see you later today." No fighting either. Ever. The very next day, she drained $60K out of our joint account, died her hair blue, got some tattoos and vanished with a 5 minute phone call. Not exactly what I expected, but that was my fault for marrying someone with a mental illness. I knew it going in, but she was such a great person when that illness wasn't flaring up that I thought it would be ok and we could work on that illness. In the end, the illness won. She is now drifting aimlessly in South Florida.

 

 

 

Did it make you happier? Did it add to your love life?

Yes, much happier. Yes, it added to my love life. Great, frequent sex, plenty of coaching from her on how to improve my look. She was 8 years younger than me so I had to adopt better styles.

 

did the sacrifice of your freedom and personal space seem a worthy trade-off for a life partner that provides a level of security?

 

That's exactly what you aren't getting. You don't make sacrifices to get married. You get married because you want to. You do not want to go out and do whatever once you find this person. You want to do things with them. They become part of your freedom and a very welcome addition to your personal space. Everyone needs a moment or two alone, so you still have that when your schedules are different or if you want to go out for a walk and they don't or something like that. It all works out. There is no sacrifice of personal space. You really REALLY want them IN your personal space.

 

 

The problem with people today (women in a lot of cases, IMO) is that they are convinced that exiting is a good thing. (sorry to pick on you... you just personify a lot of what I have noticed in society) It's not. The reason you see old people who have been married for 50 years is that they come from a time when things that weren't quite working right were fixed, not thrown away. The throw away aspects of today's society and culture in terms of the sexes is just appalling... more so on the women's side, from what I can see. Ladies... if you want true happiness, you can't always be hunting and searching for it. If you have a guy that's half way decent and has a good heart, just help him improve in areas he's weak in. Don't throw him away. He'll listen. Just COMMUNICATE.

 

Communication is TERRIBLE these days between the sexes as well.

 

People... don't be afraid to love. Don't be afraid to be with someone on this level. Don't be afraid. There is a whole new level of satisfaction on the other side of marriage you can never get elsewhere.

 

PS: Hope to get some advice on my questions soon. 50 readers, no input.

[Eternal Sunshine]

The law where I live is that after six months of living together in a romantic relationship you are considered common law married. That Means if there are any disagreements over money and ownership you are just as screwed as if tou had a legel document. It also means you are just as protected as well. (move ij to a guys house, you start helping with mortgage payments. You get kicked out you don't hve to find proof you paid to get the house split... You just have to show you were in a romantic relationship and lived together. Never known anyone who hasn't been able to)

 

The only thing not marrying is the divorce fees which really aren't that big if a deal here.

 

I looked it up and it's the same law around here. I lived with my ex for a year in his fancy apartment. My name was even on all his utility bills. Maybe I could still get half?

[xxoo]

I admit I didn't get all the way through the op.....

 

To get a peek into why we enjoy marriage and raising children, a good time to look would be daily family dinner, where we are laughing and smiling and soaking up the rewards of all the responsibilities, hard work, and lost sleep.

 

Another good time would be after 9 pm every night, when the kids are in bed and my husband and I are enjoying the rewards of our day of hard work together, spending time with our favorite person. And sex every night we want it.

 

Today, my husband and I left the kids at home and went to do some shopping together (the kids are older now). We split up in a store to look at our favorite things, and then reunited with a hug and an kiss in the middle of the women's shoes, where he found me. We've been married 20 years. I think my H is a lucky man. I know I'm a lucky woman!

Edited October 13, 2013 by xxoo

[thefooloftheyear]

For the dowry...

 

Too bad no one gave them the memo that dowry's are a thing of the past...Now he's left holding the bag...

 

If you look at marriage, its all about women...men just show up at the wedding in a rented tux, while the woman has all the pomp and regalia..Women nest...men conquer...Thats the way its always been...Its basically doomed to fail from the start...

 

I truly envy the ones that make it to the long haul..Luck, good fortune, all the planets aligned? *shrug*

 

Either way, I applaud you for the compelling post...It was a good read..

 

TFY

[Million.to.1]

Ninja, please PLEASE, do NOT ever get married.

 

Marriage is not for you. I don't get your analogy with the horse at all and hope you don't ever view a woman you love as some kind of stable master clicking her heels and training you. Weird.

Why do you believe that one has no freedom in marriage? Freedom to do what? Have sex with whoever you want? Is that all?

 

I'm not married, and "marriage" has never been important to me. I might marry one day, if being married made other things we wanted to accomplish easier.. like home ownership, immigrating to another country, etc.

I have been single for many years and enjoy my independence, but LOVE being in a committed relationship.

 

I guess people choose to get married (and have children) and "give up" their "freedom" as you put it, in order to experience some of the most wonderful and joyful experiences there are to be had. And sharing your life! A family is a haven in a heartless world. More work, sure. More stress, maybe. Lower lows, but way higher highs.

 

There is no doubt that being single is far easier. But you challenge yourself emotionally much less when in a relationship and the rewards of personal growth are definitely are harder to come by. Easy, sure. But beige.

[Ninjainpajamas]

Some good feedback here, I'd like to cover/respond to some of the points...some of it I expected and others with some good points or expressing their perspectives.

 

I'll respond to the bolded if you want to skip through to that particular response.

 

It's going to be epically long so I'll try to cut down the bolded a bit, I'm not isolating what is important or not just sizing it down.

 

 

People often like to confide in me and I have heard all kinds of miserable stories (and those didn't even involve abuse or cheating).

 

Each day they wake up with a list of chores to do, rinse and repeat, like a conveyer belt that never ends.

 

I recently asked someone why did she get married and she responded to get to the next stage of life..

 

Ninja, see a movie Blue Valentine - it's one of the most realistic potrayals of marriage I have seen and it's not just my opinion either.

 

This has been my experience as well, I think people often assume there needs to be some kind of abuse and neglect to make a marriage unhappy, but often times it's just the fact of feeling like you're on an assembly line that never improves is what seems to drag some spirits down.

 

Obviously there are issues within the relationship but on the same hand people expect "ups and downs", like if that's just part of the deal...so they're not exactly in it because they're happy but afraid of being alone, starting over, their own insecurities or investment in this relationship, and of course the oath/promise to endure this and then they say to themselves "well every relationship has problems"...and that can mean just about anything from an individual perspective.

 

Contrary to what many people say about marriage today, I see a lot of people go much farther than she should just because they don't want to be "one of those people who just gave up" so they push themselves until they're completely drained and in tatters, then they end it or have to get out.

 

I'll look into that movie.

 

Isn't this why we try to find people who are compatible with our lifestyle, value, interests etc...? Of course people will be miserable if they get married just for the sake of getting married.

 

Sure, you can "look" for what you think is compatible, and someone you think has the same values and interest...but most people make snap judgments about those things, can you honestly say people are being intelligent about that analysis rather than emotional? glazing over their relationship with rose-colored glasses and really just don't have the dating experience anyway to make a determination of those things, what they want is greater than their ability or desire to consider objectively any "compatibility".

 

Many just jump into a marriage based on some honeymoon feelings and a desire for the general "same goals" but still find themselves not as compatible with their partners as they thought...because surprise surprise, there's more to it than what they thought.

 

My point is, compatibility takes experience and good judgment to see...I've seen many people think they were compatible but they were just extremely effective and blinding themselves to the reality or didn't see the big picture or they did but really didn't care, sweeping their problems under a rug to be fixed until a later date and just being hopeful and optimistic instead of realistic...I don't think people really understand themselves...much less other people, until they're a bit older and experienced, then they can reflect on their mistakes and determine what they need more than what they may want.

 

However for some reason some people think they come fully prepared to make a decision that lasts for a lifetime when young and relatively inexperienced because of "love", as if it's some kind of second nature where you automatically know if you're making the right decision, after all they are your "soul mate" or could be right?...and the vast majority of the time they're wrong...but that takes a bit of persistent denial before that's often realized.

I'm not a man but it sounds like you are assuming that every man thinks the same way you do..

 

Marriage just doesn't work for some people and does work for others...

 

You're still relatively young so you really don't know how you will feel in a few years. Sometimes people outgrow their need to have freedom and want the stability, comfort and love that marriage can bring. There are a lot of positives in marriage if it's done right. I think sometimes you just meet the right person and realize you don't ever want to live without them. There's no harm in being open-minded because you never know what the future may bring.

I think that's a common misconception women have about me...I speak from a perspective where I take into consideration ALL feedback/information that I've experienced in life, not just my own like many others. I don't just try to represent how I feel or what I think, because in essence that's a product of all things I've taken in from life in general, I'm flexible...and many words and opinions aligned across dozens of men that almost creates a kind of synergy and relative pattern that is consistent when speaking with men that never even encountered each other and from a completely different background/demographic.

 

My validation of this is I rarely, if ever, do I have a hard time relating to people I meet, especially men. I can talk to different types of men and share the same perspectives and show the same relative understanding to what they're experiencing depending on the type of perspectives they share...I get it, from the "nice guy" who's never dated a girl in his life or had any success that just wants one special girl, to the philanderer who patrols the world like it's a big vagina candy store who can never get enough...in spite of men having different personalities and such, it's in large part external variables that have affected their experiences and perspectives in life, that may have afforded them a different take on things..but it's not the "men" at the core which is extraordinarily different, many of those variables develop later on.

 

With that being said I always have to be "open-minded" and open to the prospect of being wrong or forming a different perspective through experience and knowledge...but this is just one situation in regards to marriage that I can't see the light on. The positives seem much more difficult to see objectively and through observation.

 

Ninja, have you ever been madly in love?

 

Yes, I also grew up as a romantic, believing in the ideology of love and what it's supposed to bring to your life based on the sugar-coated stories that many sell it off as.

 

I also grew up going to some religious private schools for a good portion of my life, because according to the ideals of that institution it was supposed to provide me with a direction and fulfillment that no "mortal" or "earthly" commodities could provide....yet I am not religious.

 

I am not the way I am because I have not loved or have been in love, I am not opposed to the ideology of marriage because I am bitter or indifferent to my emotions...If you were to meet me I'm very genuine, passionate and human. I'm not someone who deflects life with high walls or refuses to change or see things from another perspective that has good merit just because I simply refuse to believe that it's valid.

 

I've realized through my romantic life, that you could fall in love with more than one person...you could see a future with many people, you could throw yourself into anything you'd like based on the timing and "emotions" present...maybe If I have never loved before, maybe then I would believe more in marriage than on the contrary.

 

 

Since my feedback is explicitly not requested I'll just keep it to a general statement: all these negative phenomena you are mentioning is the result of how men and women treat eachother. Marriage is just a human made institution - it does not have a mind of its own. Marriage cannot control people, hurt people, neglect people, drain people or whatever else you deem it responsible for. It's the people in the marriage that do this to one another - and they can do it to eachother outside of the marriage to. People hurt people - not untangible concepts.

 

Fair point, it definitely doesn't take a marriage to experience these emotions and circumstances in any relationship and it's definitely up to how both people are willing to treat each other and even tolerate. Marriage cannot be blamed alone for the issues in people's relationship.

 

However...with that being said, marriage to many people seems like a guarantee to justify that, to justify and perpetuate the suffering...because what does matter and what is important is how people view that promise and and what they consider appropriate and necessary...and in most peoples eyes that I've spoken with, it seems more justifiable to be miserable in a marriage than just a relationship, it's a free pass not to walk away, but to not walk away...it's an obligation, it's something I've seen people use as leverage "Well they can't just walk away now....we're married!" as its a pawn to ensure that the relationship will surely go down in flames if needed....because you are "obligated" to endure that suffering, as "walking away from a marriage" is "cowardly" and the "easy way out".

 

So in a way marriage does in reality control people, it forces them psychologically to endure more emotional pain and suffering....for the sake of "marriage"...I've seen religious institutions force that argument as well as family even society itself as many have conformed to that unspoken rule.

 

I've also seen women try and force the institution of marriage, or manipulate that by getting pregnant or having a child with the man who was a bit "difficult to control" thinking it would get her more of a commitment and possibly marriage, in fact I've seen women fight for that title like it was the only thing that mattered in their lives and all the ups and downs in their relationship would be worth it...it would be like a ribbon for first place.

 

So to say that "marriage" in itself is inconsequential to the happiness in a relationship may be true for some, but It can also be the driving force of an entire relationship for one person.

 

Ninja:

I have been married for almost 20 years. I think it is because we want to share our lives with someone. We want family, a sense of belonging to accompany our everyday struggles and successes. We want someone who reflects our love, commitment and sense of fun back at us so we can enjoy the everyday human experience. We like the adventure of having another person in our minds and hearts and homes.

I personally find that my marriage is my greatest accomplishment, and my wife often says the same thing. A good marriage lets me face the world with the best person I have ever known at my side and having my back.

Old Fashionedly,

Grumps

 

Thanks for your feedback...I am considerably skeptical of this verbatim to be honest, as nice as the picture is painted (which I don't deny because I've shared those experiences with women before myself without being married, it just doesn't feel balanced) it doesn't give a lot of insight unfortunately to your relationship in much detail so at the end of the day I can't make any considerable strides based on that information.

 

I've had a few guys try to "sell" me marriage or their marriages as well, only to see for myself what was actually taking place in their lives which allowed me to draw my own conclusions (one ended up divorced and taken for a ride financially, another was controlling and obsessed with is wife) among others who weren't the best examples of having a great marriage that they said they had...unfortunately I live by the motto of "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" so don't take personal offense, I do consider your feedback and what you've taken the time to share.

 

With twenty years of marriage under your belt, I'm sure you have a lot of valuable insight to share, especially since it's worked for you.

 

You don't have to be married to feel like that, believe me. In order to go where I'm headed, every day is very similar and there is a list of chores to be done every morning and every week... It IS the conveyor belt.

 

From your perspective, is "living together" any different? Are those people any happier? OR do they merely experience all the same stuff and then trade in the partner for a new one when the relationship gets old... And start all over. Most people get married partly because they are tired of dating. It gets old, especially after several disappointments.

 

Oh I do believe you, and work can feel as repetitive and just going through the grind as many a relationship.

 

You know I do believe there is a different from married and just living together. I think those two carry separate implication with each other, one is a bit of an obligation or commitment while the other is a completely free an unrestricted choice.

 

I think what happens is relationships, many of them just eventually fizzle out...it's like squeezing an orange out of all it's juice then insisting that there has to be more and that it's still providing. Maybe some people got some really big damn oranges...but It's not necessarily that you stop loving someone, you just eventually sometimes fall out of being in love with them...and you know, to a degree that might be ok. Why is it that every relationship has to end in an eternal love? Why does it have to result in marriage to be validated? That's what the culture seems to perpetuate if you ask me, it's very black and white for many.

 

And what's wrong with starting over and taking a new path in life? when you go hiking in the mountains must you always take the same trail? must you determine which is the best one and say you're going to hike that one for the rest of your life because nothing else can beat it? Variety is the spice of life they say....except for marriage.

 

I understand that dating can get old, but for me it's not even just about "dating", it's about living your life to what makes you happy, its about being brave enough NOT to be inhibited by your fears...and I see many people make decisions over the fear of the unknown, including jump into marriages and a fear of being forever alone...does that make it right? are disappointments not a part of life?

 

I think people need to look within rather than outside when they're looking to make themselves happy with their lives first.

 

I think that living together has one big advantage: exiting is simpler and people tend to leave earlier if they become unhappy. Typically marriage takes few miserable years to disintegrate because people are bound by law and a sense of duty. If kids are in the picture it's 100 times more complicated.

 

Problem with marriage as well for me is there's no time-limit to pull the plug, it's like a "for life" commitment...a death due us part if you're reading the lyrics to this love song.

 

But the reality is, if you're married and it makes you unhappy then why? why does does being married make that "ok" why is it acceptable for some of things negative things to occur for married people? but would otherwise just mean move-on if they were dating or in a relationship? why does the value of their happiness disintegrate for an oath? is it an oath to despair if necessary? of course it can't just be a situation where you expect it to be happy and as soon as you get pissed off you run out like a child screaming divorce! but it doesn't mean spend years and years in a marriage that has made you consistently unhappy either.

 

I'll sum it up since my browser decided to crash and lose my post.

 

When you have the mind set of marriage being a life long partnership, in that your interest, hopes, and desires are not about yourself, but rather about your family, and you have someone with the same mind set, well that's just winning the lottery in life in my book.

 

I hate when that happens.

 

I do understand this to a degree, I understand the the family unit and kids change the dynamic of the situation. That is probably the one thing I do feel strongly about even without having any kids, it's something I do just feel internally but still has to be experienced.

 

I have feared in my relationships however that some women would use this against me...one thing I've learned about women is never put it past them what they'd be willing to do to keep you...they might not be all that way but I've seen women do some pretty shocking things in my life to know that I shouldn't assume that they wouldn't.

 

I do want kids, I don't know how the "family unit" incorporates into that, ideally I would want that as well. But I don't want to be one in one of those situations either that all I'm with this person if for the kids, I've seen too many unhappily married couples force the ores to paddle just because of children and I don't want to sell my sanity and happiness for the sake of the stability with the children...I would like to think there is a better way to live because I believe kids see and feel more than just what their parents say or tell them, so even in those relationships/marriages I believe it sends the wrong message to the kids in itself that may have further consequences in their own lives down the road.

 

 

To enjoy such "freedom", you need disposable income and the ability to attract women. My 20s were full of school, rejection, and being at the bottom of the professional totem pole. At the time it seemed best to go along with the one woman who showed a legitimate LTR interest in me. There are difficulties -- when I was single, my life was too empty. Now, my life is too busy. I don't think that part can be avoided no matter when and whom you marry. Marriage and kids have taught me to handle more responsibility than I ever thought I could.

 

I understand this and try to explain this to women often...it's about options for men, some don't simply have the luxury, if not most to live the kinds of lives single as they would like to...but they never take into consideration those factors, like men may not take into consideration that some women are just desperate to be married and have kids with just about anyone that is willing to offer them that seriously.

 

So your situation makes a lot of sense, you're being honest about it and I appreciate that. I also understand the responsibility factors as well, I think in a way that would also push myself and motivate me more into becoming better and more successful since I'd have some clear goals and expectations to reach for...although I'm not sure that's exactly how I'd want to motivate myself...I'd like to achieve the things in my life that I could not being married with children so I don't have any of those voids or dreams of what could have been.

 

The law where I live is that after six months of living together in a romantic relationship you are considered common law married. That Means if there are any disagreements over money and ownership you are just as screwed as if tou had a legel document. It also means you are just as protected as well. (move ij to a guys house, you start helping with mortgage payments. You get kicked out you don't hve to find proof you paid to get the house split... You just have to show you were in a romantic relationship and lived together. Never known anyone who hasn't been able to)

 

The only thing not marrying is the divorce fees which really aren't that big if a deal here.

 

That place definitely doesn't sounds like the right choice for me!

 

Oh wow... this is a sad thread. I'm more disturbed by the women's posts than the men's.

 

To think the state of the public psyche is this screwed up. Marriage is not a weight or rock (kids sure are). Marriage is sharing your life with someone who you share common values with. Someone who is there for you and you are there for them no matter what happens. Someone you feel so comfortable with (and yes, still giddy after 20 years) that you could be thrown on a deserted island and still be just as happy as can be talking with each other and laughing.

 

It's about adventure, fun and sharing life with someone. It's about loving and being loved. It's about stability and a sense of not having to fight for everything. It's about shared/pooled resources that enable 2 people to succeed in life faster and easier than one.

 

Most importantly, it's about waking up every single day and knowing that you are happy to share a new day of adventures with the one you love.

 

Marriage is another, more permanent step in being with someone. Yes, kids destroy it every time. I always notice that. However, marriage itself is one of the most wonderful things you can share with another human being. (you have to pick the right one though)

When does the public psyche just simply become "awareness"...I look around, talked to so many people about marriage and relationships in my lifetime...you got a very high divorce rate, you have tons of people unhappy in their marriages and yet oh "it's a generational problem" or people today just don't know how to "stick things out"...maybe, just maybe for the one of the first times in the history of mankind people are not controlled and regulated by traditions and religious ideals...maybe people are actually having free-will and able to live their lives with the freedom that doesn't confine them into a box that some government or institution is demanding they suffer from for the sake of the "greater good".

 

There's got to be other ways to be happy...justifying marriage by bringing up "compatibility" "values", "sharing your life" with someone that's all just justification of it, I'm sure you can go to any other country and find their own beliefs and opinions of why marriage is important to their culture...and I'm not saying those are not necessary things for marriage, what I'm saying is why do people only apply those qualities to marriage when those are important in every romantic relationship to some people? and how many people get married without those "stars" aligning? I've seen completely incompatible people get married, so how do those people justify their marriage and discontent?..love?

 

And this is part of the problem...marriage has too many expectations attached to it. "It's about adventure, fun and sharing life with someone." that's why some people might get married, but that sure hell isn't the way it is in reality for a lot of people that stay married...it's usually the kids.

 

If anything I see adventure, fun and sharing life together in marriage with someone turn into a daily grind-fest of going through check-lists and obligations, bills, responsibilities, money, stress, not a whole lot of fun from what I've seen...and not a whole of "adventure" either unless you consider adventure picking up dog poo in the back yard wearing your British safari expedition hat.

 

So having a "wonderful" marriage for the long-term seems to me like winning the lottery and I've never been much of a high-stakes gambler, life is a pretty high stake to me. Otherwise I hear a lot of fantasy and idealistic views of what marriage is supposed to be, maybe that's what some people have to tell themselves...relationships, meh just living together...marriage a glorious partnership where all of lifes wondrous potentials are realized.

 

If anything marriage is a state-of-mind for some people, a place where only some things can be realized and experienced, I think that's why people expect so many things to change and improve from relationship to marriage, or at least have that guarantee and commitment...because in spite of why most people justify the reasons to be and stay married, most of those elements seem to be the exact qualities missing from them.

 

Conclusion

 

Some people may say "well he's already got his mind made-up, marriage isn't for some people, this guy isn't one of them"...no that's not how I feel, a part of me still holds some hope and promise for what this "marriage" aspect of life is supposed to bring and my opinions are not set in stone and based on where I am at this point in life and with what I've seen and learned thus far.

 

What I really want is something real and solid, something different and convincing of this is why "marriage" makes it worth it, this is what it brings you what you can't get anywhere else, this is why before wasn't as good as being married now...these are the things that changed my life forever.

Edited October 13, 2013 by Ninjainpajamas

[xxoo]

Do you think we are trying to talk you into marrying?

I thought you were asking why other men marry, not looking for someone to justify marriage to you.

 

It's sort of like starting a business. It's a risk, and a ton of responsibility, but when it works out, the rewards are huge. It isn't for the lazy, the weak, the uninspired, or the faint of heart.

 

A family is a haven in a heartless world. .

 

Well said. Marriage is creating family.

Edited October 13, 2013 by xxoo

[theothersully]

Ninjainpajamas

 

What I really want is something real and solid, something different and convincing of this is why "marriage" makes it worth it, this is what it brings you what you can't get anywhere else, this is why before wasn't as good as being married now...these are the things that changed my life forever.

 

This question is like asking what is on the other side of a black hole. Until you go there, you will never know.

 

Also, marriage is different for everyone. It is not the same experience.

 

Ok, you know how it is when you are dating someone? You are dating them, you are really feeling them and you want to take it to the next level of just seeing each other in a serious relationship?

 

Well, marriage is the next level past the serious relationship. You haven't been there, so you can't understand it. People can tell you how they feel about it, but our experiences won't be the same as yours. I picked the wrong person. I had a great marriage during it, but as the mental illness got out of control, it got pretty uncomfortable. I had two different experiences because the person I was married to became a different person. If I had married the wrong person from the state, it would be miserable.

 

Also, you are on about control. No long term relationship should be about control. Marriage is no different. You are not controlled by someone. You are willingly participating in life with them.

Ninjainpajamas

When does the public psyche just simply become "awareness"...I look around, talked to so many people about marriage and relationships in my lifetime...you got a very high divorce rate, you have tons of people unhappy in their marriages and yet oh "it's a generational problem" or people today just don't know how to "stick things out"...maybe, just maybe for the one of the first times in the history of mankind people are not controlled and regulated by traditions and religious ideals...maybe people are actually having free-will and able to live their lives with the freedom that doesn't confine them into a box that some government or institution is demanding they suffer from for the sake of the "greater good".

There are tons and tons of people in bad marriages. Suffering, having a terrible time. They did not choose the right person or the person they are with changed. Also, people are just horrible at communicating. That's really all any relationship takes, marriage included. I do not believe in a god, I do not believe in any religion and I'm pretty anti-society and anti-government. Yet, I believe strongly in marriage. It's the same thing as when you take a step to a serious relationship from dating. Just the next one after that. It's a beautiful thing.

There's got to be other ways to be happy...justifying marriage by bringing up "compatibility" "values", "sharing your life" with someone that's all just justification of it, I'm sure you can go to any other country and find their own beliefs and opinions of why marriage is important to their culture...and I'm not saying those are not necessary things for marriage, what I'm saying is why do people only apply those qualities to marriage when those are important in every romantic relationship to some people? and how many people get married without those "stars" aligning? I've seen completely incompatible people get married, so how do those people justify their marriage and discontent?..love?

 

I can't imagine how anyone would get married if they didn't have those stars aligning. I guess some people do it for money, to get social status, to immigrate to another country or whatever. Those are likely to be less happy and certainly fall in the bad marriage category, unless they are just treating it like a business.

 

And this is part of the problem...marriage has too many expectations attached to it. "It's about adventure, fun and sharing life with someone." that's why some people might get married, but that sure hell isn't the way it is in reality for a lot of people that stay married...it's usually the kids.

 

Kids... they'll make it hard every time - either when they are born or when they get older and leave the house. I've seen marriages get into trouble on both of those occasions and yes... I see people just so busy with kids, they are running through the motions and don't even see 18 years go by. I am not advocating kids... just sharing your life with someone.

 

If anything I see adventure, fun and sharing life together in marriage with someone turn into a daily grind-fest of going through check-lists and obligations, bills, responsibilities, money, stress, not a whole lot of fun from what I've seen...and not a whole of "adventure" either unless you consider adventure picking up dog poo in the back yard wearing your British safari expedition hat.

 

Ha ha ha! You're right. These people are boring, typical people who live mundane, lives (in my opinion as someone who constantly needs adventure). If they were single, they would be just as boring going out in the yard to pick up the dog. The trouble is, that's the typical American you are describing. Boring. Naturally, if you put two of these typical Americans together, you get (boring)^2

So having a "wonderful" marriage for the long-term seems to me like winning the lottery and I've never been much of a high-stakes gambler, life is a pretty high stake to me. Otherwise I hear a lot of fantasy and idealistic views of what marriage is supposed to be, maybe that's what some people have to tell themselves...relationships, meh just living together...marriage a glorious partnership where all of lifes wondrous potentials are realized.

 

If anything marriage is a state-of-mind for some people, a place where only some things can be realized and experienced, I think that's why people expect so many things to change and improve from relationship to marriage, or at least have that guarantee and commitment...because in spite of why most people justify the reasons to be and stay married, most of those elements seem to be the exact qualities missing from them.

 

Exactly. Expectations, other than the most basic ones (like trust, love and other basics) have no place in a relationship. This is just more bad communication and inconsiderate behavior.

 

I think you're convincing me it's a bad idea... ha ha ha But... what's the alternative? Living with someone for 10 years? Might as well be married. What's the difference?

[Eternal Sunshine]

So having a "wonderful" marriage for the long-term seems to me like winning the lottery and I've never been much of a high-stakes gambler, life is a pretty high stake to me.

 

That's how I feel too. I am not denying that good long term marriages exist but I may as well go and search for a unicorn.

With that said, I have not made up my mind 100% one way or the other and I am always interested in hearing more perspectives.

[Janesays]

I feel like I could wax poetic about marriage for pages, but it would accomplish nothing. Like you did with grumps, I'm sure you'd dismiss my comments with your "I'm skeptical" answer. Your reality is your own and if you are unwilling or unable to believe that, for others, our reality is different, then we're wasting our breathe.

 

I think anyone who has a negative outlook towards marriage, they should avoid it. I'll certainty never try to talk them into something that makes them unhappy.

 

Live your life how you like. You have nothing to prove to us.

[mario_C]

This is a great thread. And how strongly it dissipates the cliche that women are always applying the pressure for marriage! Although it is still women who remain in the sway of the grandeur and romance of the pagan ceremony as I call it and that's not changing any time soon. Until gays take over the ritual completely, that is.

 

But I must insist we just disagree that marriage's lack of relevance is a bad thing. There are plenty of people out there having loving relationships, sharing homes, even having children, without the approval of some religious cartel and without an unfair binding contract legally demanding one party surrender half of everything when the relationship goes sour.

Everyone is different. Sure, commitment and love in one's later years are good thing. So be with someone because of that, not to please mommy and daddy and your neighbors and everyone else. Like they'll ever be happy with your life anyway.

 

Needless to say, this is personal. (Isn't it always?) I have been stuck between my own divorcing parents as well as in the middle when my two best friends divorced. It is always ugly and always ruins your life. Not to mention the sad tales of revenge, suicidal feelings and unending bitterness divorced people share with me here and elsewhere.

I am 45 and single. Life is just fine. No, life is not at all perfect, and it can be lonely. But that's why I still pursue relationships. And at the end of the day, I know it's my life and I lived it my way. I'm OK with that. Are you?

 

*puts on hazmat suit*

[Ninjainpajamas]

Marriage is not for you. I don't get your analogy with the horse at all and hope you don't ever view a woman you love as some kind of stable master clicking her heels and training you. Weird.

 

Well you're a woman for one, not a man and that's what it looks like to me...I see men getting yelled at, scolded or expected to do this that and the other thing...and like they say "If momma ain't happy...nobody happy!"

 

Why do you believe that one has no freedom in marriage? Freedom to do what? Have sex with whoever you want? Is that all?

 

I just don't see the freedom of choice, it's like joining a political party...you're onboard with the same ideals and overall philosophy, you have to support the cause and you're associated, not be individuality but by conforming to the group.

 

I've seen married men have to do a routine of what they're expected to do, they have to check in with their wives (unless she doesn't care about him) and constantly stay on tabs with what he is doing and up to, constantly providing radio communication and gps location on his whereabouts and business.

 

Sex is part of it...wife's got a headache, isn't in the mood, doesn't feel sexy or gained too much weight, is bloated/gassy, etc...you're essentially screwed. I've seen married men go years without sex, and honestly the way the relationship is going they probably aren't that terribly interested anyway, that's the vibe I'm getting, they'd rather be at work or in their man cave or something. So your wife is responsibility for your sexual satisfaction, regardless of the situation, you are committed you are stuck with whatever she decides and so is she.

 

I'm not married, and "marriage" has never been important to me. I might marry one day, if being married made other things we wanted to accomplish easier.. like home ownership, immigrating to another country, etc.

I have been single for many years and enjoy my independence, but LOVE being in a committed relationship.

 

I guess people choose to get married (and have children) and "give up" their "freedom" as you put it, in order to experience some of the most wonderful and joyful experiences there are to be had. And sharing your life! A family is a haven in a heartless world. More work, sure. More stress, maybe. Lower lows, but way higher highs.

 

There is no doubt that being single is far easier. But you challenge yourself emotionally much less when in a relationship and the rewards of personal growth are definitely are harder to come by. Easy, sure. But beige.

 

I don't know..family for me are people that are essential and important to me in my life, they don't only come under the institution of marriage...single parents are still a family with their children, you are still a family with your parents divorced, it will always be your mom and your dad, you may not have the 1950's family unit but it my eyes it doesn't you can't be good parents and teach your kids good values/morals and taking ownership of responsibility regardless of the "title" but because of your own accountability.

 

Rewards to me in life are what you allow yourself to feel and experience through your own achievements in your life, whether that's being supportive and caring for someone who is your wife or not. Again the responsibility and associating with all good things to marriage, these idealistic views of compartmentalizing these positive aspects only to be apart of that institution is narrow and short-sighted.

 

Do you think we are trying to talk you into marrying?

I thought you were asking why other men marry, not looking for someone to justify marriage to you.

 

It's sort of like starting a business. It's a risk, and a ton of responsibility, but when it works out, the rewards are huge. It isn't for the lazy, the weak, the uninspired, or the faint of heart.

 

Well said. Marriage is creating family.

 

Well you wouldn't talk me into marriage by telling me how your husband feels anyway, but no I don't believe that you are nor anyone else can convince me of that but merely share your perspectives and let me decide for myself, I believe you are trying to justify your own feelings and marriages otherwise.

 

I'm asking the real underlying factors of why men get married, internally, emotionally...and why the would choose a life that is restricting and obligated to an ideal that must be fulfilled regardless of what one may desire or feel because of a "commitment" and oath.

 

I feel like I could wax poetic about marriage for pages, but it would accomplish nothing. Like you did with grumps, I'm sure you'd dismiss my comments with your "I'm skeptical" answer. Your reality is your own and if you are unwilling or unable to believe that, for others, our reality is different, then we're wasting our breathe.

 

I think anyone who has a negative outlook towards marriage, they should avoid it. I'll certainty never try to talk them into something that makes them unhappy.

 

Live your life how you like. You have nothing to prove to us.

 

I could speak poetically about love, in that respect I'm sure married and unmarried people could relate the same.

 

But if it were to accomplish a convincing "argument" as what seems to be the impression of some people here, yes I am going to be "skeptical" not because of your flattering words but because there wasn't much substance or merit that is geared towards the underlying factors of why men would make the choice to be married...let me give you an example...

 

Walk into a church, are you going to be terribly surprised of what people would have to say? is that going to make you any more religious? (assuming you are just walking off the street and not religious)

 

Is it going to be earth shattering to you that some people are expressing that "god is the way, the only reason I am happy the only reason I am successful in life, the only reason I am completely fulfilled"....why right? "because it's giving me so much hope and helped me through so much troubles and yadda yadda yadda"...let's be realistic here, people are going to say the same shet right? you've heard it before, everyone else has heard it before...it's the same song on the radio every year, we already know the lyrics and what's it's about.

 

So while you have a point that there is nothing you can do to convince a person and nothing to prove, that's not the point here, I am listening to what people have to say and I am considering it, but there's not a lot of say in response is there? If you're truly trying to understand something, wouldn't you have questions?

 

But no, I cannot make any judgments to those who are married, yet people can make complete judgments about my ability to love or understand commitment or family of any kind because I question the merits of marriage....yeah I totally don't see you calling the kettle black here.

 

Maybe the world would be different if people actually had to convince or justify things to themselves and even think outside the box, instead of just believe in something without question...makes you wonder how much you really understand yourselves.

[Janesays]

....or maybe no one wants to bother arguing with someone who has obviously already made up their mind.

 

And even if we did, to what end? I honestly don't believe you should get married. You don't believe you should get married. So we're already on the same page.

 

To use your religious analogy...you're like one of those Christians who can't just be happy with their faith and love of God. It's like you can't be happy unless you've indoctrined all the unbelievers to your point of view.

 

Who are you preaching to here?

[man_in_the_box]

However...with that being said, marriage to many people seems like a guarantee to justify that, to justify and perpetuate the suffering...because what does matter and what is important is how people view that promise and and what they consider appropriate and necessary...and in most peoples eyes that I've spoken with, it seems more justifiable to be miserable in a marriage than just a relationship, it's a free pass not to walk away, but to not walk away...it's an obligation, it's something I've seen people use as leverage "Well they can't just walk away now....we're married!" as its a pawn to ensure that the relationship will surely go down in flames if needed....because you are "obligated" to endure that suffering, as "walking away from a marriage" is "cowardly" and the "easy way out".

 

So in a way marriage does in reality control people, it forces them psychologically to endure more emotional pain and suffering....for the sake of "marriage"...I've seen religious institutions force that argument as well as family even society itself as many have conformed to that unspoken rule.

 

So to say that "marriage" in itself is inconsequential to the happiness in a relationship may be true for some, but It can also be the driving force of an entire relationship for one person.

 

I've left out the part concerning women who are intentionally pregnant to trap a man into marriage. As I recall there was a thread started by a person trying to justify this and it resulted in a 25 page thread telling the OP in nice or not ways to shove it up hers. Almost nobody is going to argue that it is any way or form acceptable.

 

Furtermore on marriage being an 'obligation' - I know what you mean. But we live in a free society where marriage can be legally terminated. If people want to believe that they are 'obligated' to stick to a hopeless marriage then they have the right to do so - but I fail to see how that is marriage's fault.

 

I think it is destined to go down this track - humans are so incredibly prone to do whatever society expects of them. It still remains their own responsibility in the end but it is their own choice to remain in unhappy marriages if that's what they perceive as desired from family, religious institutions and/or society. The Iranians managed to brainwash kids to walk straight into the Iraqi line of fire to 'die for the cause', don't you think society can convince people to do what's maybe not best for them? The flaws are anchored in how society works - not a non-conscious institution such as marriage.

 

Anyway marriage will evolve over the course of time. The positive and negative aspects of marriage will disappear and make place for new ones.

[Ninjainpajamas]

....or maybe no one wants to bother arguing with someone who has obviously already made up their mind.

 

And even if we did, to what end? I honestly don't believe you should get married. You don't believe you should get married. So we're already on the same page.

 

To use your religious analogy...you're like one of those Christians who can't just be happy with their faith and love of God. It's like you can't be happy unless you've indoctrined all the unbelievers to your point of view.

 

Who are you preaching to here?

 

Nobody has to bother participating, this is not marriage where you are obligated...you have your freedom of choice.

 

Seriously though, it's not about "arguing" it, it's just about perspectives here but I'd appreciate clearer examples from mostly men, that is all.

 

You ever notice how women are all over conversations like this when it comes to how their husbands feel? you don't see men running around telling people how their wives feel, speaking on their behalf.

 

Many women act like they've got a seat in their man's brain...just because he's said this or that...you even see single women do it with guys they are dating, furthermore I understand when men are not being completely transparent about something, I can tell...you've got to rock the boat to make some waves.

 

Men don't just roll over and say how they feel typically and give it out like candy, they've got to get past that "conformity" filter of what they're supposed to do and say...women get all up in arms and start throwing a fit when they hear things they don't like or say something out of line, so only when you tell them the walls aren't bugged and the wife isn't listening can they start to share a little bit of the reality with you and that's something you don't understand, you do NOT know how your husband/boyfriends and whoever else completely feels....because many women always oversimplify it and assume they already know.

 

People can decide if what I'm saying has any substance or whether it's just an argument and not a real attempt to gain any perspective, there was pretty good feedback on the first page, but the road it's going down now has changed to due accusations.

 

I'm sure once the married/women who despise unmarried men who don't want to give the ultimate commitment of loove...come in here, then I'm sure you'll alienate the balance of perspectives and disrupt the free flowing conversation, eliminating an environment where men would speak even somewhat freely about their feelings...as usual.

 

And women wonder why men talk like rehearsed robots about their feelings or don't bother sharing them at all.