Did she cheat on me?

[borneric]

Hello everyone,

 

I´m glad I found this site because there´s something I need an opinion on:

 

I have been together with my girlfriend for 4 months now...We met in her country through an business acquaintance. We have had an long distance relationship and 2 months ago we decided that she would move to my country. Everything feels great and I can really see a future with her. See feels the same. We are very happy. We have already (playfully) picked out a baby name for our future kid..so, this is serious on both parts.

 

There´s only one thing...

 

A few weeks back we were talking on Skype... We were saying good bye and hanging up because her phone rang. She thought she hung up on her computer but the line never broke. So, I heard her phone call...I couldnt help myself...because it was her ex calling (they broke up in oct 2012). She sounded surprised that it was him calling...like they had not talked for a long time...(she did tell me that he called her before our trip, see below, to wish her good wishes with her new relationship..thats all i know.)

 

For the first 10 min they were talking about our trip to singapore (we met up there for business for 1 week..all though she never mentioned that I met up with her there...), life in general etc. After 15 minutes he asks her if she wants to meet up with him...she says: No, I can't go...he asks: why and she says: because it would be to risky for me, and then she laughs.

 

The tone of the conversation is getting very flirtatious...She then says: you are still in my heart. He then tells her that he is moving to France (which is very close to my country I must add..) She then jokes/says: If you move there I will run away and follow you there, I can say that I´m visiting a cousin.

 

She then says that she wants to introduce me to him and that Im a great man.

 

He says something like: yeah right!

 

He flirts with her and she says: no, OMG no! Life is to short...You made me wait for a long time...for nothing. (haha)

 

They talk some more about the "weather" and in the end she says: I just want you to know...this was the first time I felt like your wife..I want you to know that..if you ever want to talk to me about something, I would be glad to hear about it...you deserve it.

 

 

I hang up the Skype.

 

then 3 min later she calls me on Skype...I can see the guilt in her eyes...she doesnt know that I heard the conversation...not til this day. I ask her if everything is alright. She says yes. She then tells me, out of the blue, that she wants to let me know that she didn't accept a ride from her boss this morning because she didnt want me to worry about anything. (this boss tried to kiss her last december..thats what she told me.) I felt she said that because she was feeling guilty about the phone call...and was trying to compensate.

 

Two days pass and she doesnt tell me about the phone call she had with her ex.

I tell her about a salesman who called me a few days ago, how I told him that I didnt want to waste his time...I told her that I think it better to say no and not give them false hopes...this story obviously affected her (This is exactly what I wanted..I wanted to give her a chance to tell me...) cause she then tells me that he called her. I asked what he wanted and she said he just wanted to talk and tell her that he was moving to france. She also tells me that he asked her out but that she declined. Thats it.

 

3 days later he calls her in the middle of the night but she doesnt answer.(I know this cause at that time we were talking on Skype...so she had a missed call.) She told me this after I asked her directly if he had called anymore.

 

The next day he calls again (this guy really timed it...we were talking on Skype and she goes into the other room...but I still hear what she is saying.) He apologizes for calling in the middle of the night...she says that its not a problem...that he shouldnt worry. and they talk about massage...he going to get one later..she laughs...Then I cant hear more.

 

I tell her that I think it very disrespectful for him to call my girlfriend in the middle of the night.

I ask if she wans me to call him and politely ask him to stop calling. She says no. I ask her again and I tell her that I can call him tonight and tell him my opinion. She says no and then says that I can call him after the weekend...then she will give his number to me.

 

Later in the evening when we talk she sounds very distanced and distracted.

She says that she is feeling stressed..she doesn't know why etc. I can feel that she doesnt want to talk...I call her, she calls me but I cant hear her...the skype was working perfectly a few hours before. She says she needs to shower. (at this point she is visiting her sisters house. I know this for a fact.)

 

Later that night I try to call her phone but it doesnt work. In the morning I call her at 07.00 am and she is home. We talk and she says that she went with her sister and her sisters husband for dinner and then she went home around 10.30 pm

 

For the next 2 days she is not the same when we talk..distanced and a bit different.

 

But after a few days everything was back to normal.

 

SO, let me finish this ridiculously long letter...

 

I have still feeling that something has happened between them. Just a feeling that I cant shake off. The feeling I have is that it might have been a one timer...But I have no proof at all...its just a feeling I have.

 

Am I being paranoid or are you guys seeing something here? I don´t want to ask her if something happened. I dont want to come off as controlling or paranoid. But this is important for me...because she is moving to my country, meeting my family, friends etc.

 

I just want to add that she is a great woman in every aspect. She is not a party girl, she is responsible, smart and a great people person.

 

I want to spend my future (thats the feeling I have now) with her but if something happened I want to know.

 

Regards and thanks in advance!

 

Eric

Edited October 14, 2013 by borneric
add some info

[emi]

Hmm. You cant not yet accuse that she cheated on you. Not yet.

However you just been dating her for 4 months and it is too hasty to plan for a marriage.

About her ex, i think it has been a long time, so i think their conversation is quite legit, abit flirtatious for fun.

To be honest you cant do anything now. Just wait awhile and see, dont rush to marriage now. There is a red flag here atm.

[Criticality]

What countries are you guys from? That could make a little difference?

 

 

But overall, no you can't say that "something" happened. Her ex called her (not the other way around) they talked, it happens.

 

If you want to be in a LDR you can't really let stuff like that worry you too much.

[borneric]

Thanks for your reply. Yes sure, it has been a while and maybe I am over-reacting. Yes, a marriage is not happening any time soon. We´ll take it nice and slow. I will sit back and see if there´s any more red flags. She is flying to meet me in two weeks.

 

Thanks again/Eric

[borneric]

What countries are you guys from? That could make a little difference?

 

I am from Germany and she is from the southern parts (Porto Alegre) of Brazil. She is well educated, has a job in a big corporation etc. She has travelled a lot to Europe, Australia, USA and even lived for a few months in different countries.

 

Thanks/Eric

[Chi townD]

I wouldn't say that she "cheated" per say. But, she definitely is keeping up with a inappropriate relationship with her Ex.

 

How would she feel if she heard you talking to YOUR Ex like that? I venture to say, you wouldn't be her boyfriend today.

[borneric]

I wouldn't say that she "cheated" per say. But, she definitely is keeping up with a inappropriate relationship with her Ex.

 

How would she feel if she heard you talking to YOUR Ex like that? I venture to say, you wouldn't be her boyfriend today.

Yes, I have to agree about turning the table. If I would have done that she would probably be out of there...

 

She was at least emotionally cheating if you ask me...

[truth_seeker]

When you're in love with someone, you do not keep in contact with your ex.

[umirano]

That gal isn't making it easy for you, Eric. She's making it hard for you. That's not what a loving girlfriend does. To me it sounds as if she wants to keep all her options open. Are you cool with that?

 

Also, I have learned that keeping things under the rug doesn't really help in the long run. You have all the emotions wrt those flirty conversations bottled up in you. They affect your judgement and your behaviour even if you don't realize it. They will break loose one day when you may not want them to and a bad fight may become terminal. I am speaking from experience. You may want to think about a way of talking to her about your concerns. Or you may want to start composing an exit strategy.

 

I know you said 'yeah we keep things informal'. You will find this hard to do when asking yourself everyday whether she cheated on you because you will wonder whether the relationship is still worth the (emotional) pain.

 

Good luck to you

[OnlyHonesty]

If she hasn't already cheated, the question your mind will always be asking is 'when, where and for how long'. She is disrespecting you as a man by flirting and remaining in contact with an ex, her banter that borders on 'I might still be avaliable but oh I shouldn't but oh life is too short' is disrespectful. I have to say, I am always left slightly bemused when I read some of these posts when all a woman brings into a mans life is drama, uncertainty, disrespect and worry.

 

Of course, this is just my opinion but it doesn't sound like she is serious about you, trust in a long distant relationship is paramount and she sounds like she has already placed herself in situations that threaten this trust and does not sound very good at setting and keeping boundaries.

 

I think the problem with a lot of men today is they are afraid to walk away, there is nothing wrong with giving someone the benefit of doubt but after a while, you just become a doormat.

 

Continue with this at your mental peril.

[bubbaganoosh]

If it was me. I would have come flat out and told her that you overheard the conversation she had with her old BF. Then I would ask her what the hell is going on. I would ask her if the roles were reversed and my old GF called and she overheard it wouldn't she be asking the same questions? You said that if she heard you talking to your Ex that "she would be out of here"

 

Some people think that it's fine when they do it but take issue when someone does it to them. I would let her know that if she wants to continue the relationship that she had better stay within the lines of the relationship or it will be over. If not, it will continue and only get worse.

[borneric]

Hi,

 

I want to thank you all for replying, still figuring out if I should reveal to her that I overheard her phone call or if I should keep quite and just move on?

 

If I do how would it make my situation/relationship better?

Im sure she regrets it and she will probably be very ashamed? Will it make our relationship grow or will it make me look like the guy who doesnt show respect to privacy?

 

I mean, right now things are going great and moving along.

 

I just dont want to bring it up just because it will make my ego feel better...

I mean, even if I tell her that I heard the whole thing..what good will it do?

Then I ask if she´s been unfaithful?ajajaj.

 

Right now, its 50/50.

 

If you guys have any thoughts there are welcomed.

 

Eric

[bubbaganoosh]

Hi,

I mean, right now things are going great and moving along.

 

 

If things are going great then why are you here? I'm not trying to stick it to you but it's obvious that this is bothering you and if you tell her that you overheard the conversation, she can't deny it. It's up to her to give you her explanation and I'll bet the house that if she over heard you talking to your old GF she would all over you like a fat man on a jelly doughnut wanting to know just what you want to know. It's her fault for creating this mess so have her fix it.

[borneric]

Hey everyone,

 

It´s been about six months since I posted this thread and I just want to make an update.

 

She arrived in the end of oct 2013 and I chose to tell her that I overheard her conversation. She was shocked but said that he manipulated her she was pulled in by him and that she got emotional. I further asked her if they had met and she said no. I asked her again because I didn't believe her but she kept saying that she never met him.

 

Let´s jump forward to february this year: We have a heated argument and I again tell her that I still don't believe her that she didn't meet him...she then starts crying and says that she DID meet him back in September when the call took place. I was shocked. I knew it. I asked if something happened but she said no. I asked why she lied to me and she said that she was afraid to loose me if she told me. (!)

 

Her story goes that she wanted to meet him and show him that she was happy with me and say goodbye. She called him and he was at a car shop changing his tires. She stops by and chats and then leaves. I keep asking her but she keeps denying that something happened. She says NOTHING happened, not even a kiss.

 

I also got new information that the last time they had sex was in June 2013, one week before we got serious. I had asked her this question before but she always said that the last time they had met was in december 2012.

 

Question 1: Why would she lie about not meeting him if she just met him at a car shop and said goodbye? This doesn't make any sense to me..I really want to believe her but it doesn't ad up. Why take the risk to tell a lie over and over when she didn't do anything wrong? (of course, just the fact that she met him is in my opinion wrong...)

 

Question 2: Why would she lie about the last time they met? Note: she said that nothing happened in december 2012, that they just had dinner with friends and now she says that she had sex with him in June 2013, one week before we got involved...

 

 

I would really appreciate your two cents about this. Thanks!

[borneric]

I also want to ad some detailed info about her relationship with her ex boyfriend to maybe shed some more light on the situation.

 

During the two years that they met (I have asked her how and where they met...they met at hotels, trips etc.) He was married with two kids. His wife, as far as she knows, never knew about her. So, she dated a married man knowing that he had a wife and kid at home.

 

She says that he helped her out with some cash in the beginning of their relationship when she had to close down her business..and that he told her that he was getting a divorce; he never did. (Well now I found out that he is divorced.)

 

This has bothered me a lot. You don't date people who are married, not alone with kids in the picture.

 

Question 3: Does this mean that the risk is high she will do the same to me, leave me for another married man or cheat or has she learned from the lesson and changed?

 

All the best!

[borneric]

....I pressed her again about if something had happened...she admitted it...my gutt feeling was right all along...the met at the car shop, the took her car and went and ate at the restaurant and then went to a hotel and f''''cked in mid august. I feel so devasted right now I can't even describe...I wanted to post here as soon as possible so nobody would waste their time replying. What should I do????? I feel so empty right now...words can't describe it. Total betrayal...at that time we had only been together for roughly 2 months. would she every had told me??? She says she was afraid to loose me...Well, if she would have told me six months ago maybe it would have been better odds but right now I don't know. Totally heartbroken. I will never, ever again question my gut feeling. I have truly pissed on my own intelligence. Shame on me. Take care and God bless

[TAV]

....I pressed her again about if something had happened...she admitted it...my gutt feeling was right all along...the met at the car shop, the took her car and went and ate at the restaurant and then went to a hotel and f''''cked in mid august. I feel so devasted right now I can't even describe...I wanted to post here as soon as possible so nobody would waste their time replying. What should I do????? I feel so empty right now...words can't describe it. Total betrayal...at that time we had only been together for roughly 2 months. would she every had told me??? She says she was afraid to loose me...Well, if she would have told me six months ago maybe it would have been better odds but right now I don't know. Totally heartbroken. I will never, ever again question my gut feeling. I have truly pissed on my own intelligence. Shame on me. Take care and God bless

 

I'm so sorry, Eric, about what happened. You deserved better. Please don't be so hard on yourself; you did not do anything wrong. She did. She should not have tainted your love with lies and distrust. Work out for yourself if you can continue after this. I just know that in a LDR trust is key; there is no way of checking up on someone (imo you should never have to do that anyway) so you should just assume the other person is faithful and find affirmation on that in their behaviour, their openness, honesty and the attention they give you.

[Chi townD]

Drop her dude. Sorry, but she cheated on you. You obviously know that all she does is lie to you. Do you want to waste one more day with a person that you're unsure if she's telling you the truth from day to day?

 

 

So, it was a BS story about showing up to the tire shop to "show him" that she was happy with you and didn't need him. Yet, she goes and screws him all night in a hotel. That doesn't "just happen". She made choices to go see him. At ANYTIME she could have said no. But, she didn't....she knew what she was doing. Plus, he was going through a divorce at that time, so she screwed a, technically, married man.

 

 

Dude, you don't need this and you didn't deserve it. Time to heal and move on. YOU DESERVE BETTER!!!!!!

[borneric]

Thanks guys for replying.

 

My logic says move on...just to many lies on top of each other, my heart says to give it another try...I love this woman and she loves me.

 

Some deeper clarification: At the time I was going through a divorce..I had left my wife and I went back to my country to finalize the papers. I had made very clear to her that this is what I was going to do..we were officially together as a couple..everybody knew this; her friends, my friends, her family my family.

 

I met her today and she was crying and was very sorry...She begged me to forgive her and pleaded not to judge her by her wrong doing...that she is not like that and that she will always be faithful to me. She said it just happened once and she regretted it very much...she says that she was unsure of my situation, if I was really going to finalize the divorce and she still had feelings for him..after that time at the hotel she says that she saw that they were not a good match and just a few days after that incident she bought the ticket to Europe to come to me.

 

The thing is..my partner at work has known her for his whole life and says that this is not like her...he has never heard of this behavior before and was chocked that this happened. he means that she must have been very scared, unsure of my situation and was carried away by old emotions.

 

The line...once a cheater always a cheater usually is right but Im wondering if this might be the exception from the rule? Any further input is appreciated! Take care

[TAV]

Aaah... You left that part out. So you were a married man when you became close to her. Deja-vu for her. That must have made her unsure of where she was at with you, no matter what you told her; she must have feared that you'd stay with your wife and she, yet again, wasted time with a married man. And maybe she felt justified sleeping with her ex because you were still attached to her wife.

The thing is that she should have told you about her insecurities. You telling her that you were going back to finalize the papers etc. was your reality, your truth. Obviously not hers. She must have heard her ex say that many times, make false promises. Something so basic, so essential to your relationship should have been discussed openly. She should have made clear she did not really felt 'yours' when you were still officially someone else's husband.

I guess she saw a good thing and did not want to let it go but felt some sort of justification in sleeping with her ex just the same. Being open and honest is very important. As I'm sure you know. Are there any other lies you have caught her in? Or is it really completely out of character like your friend says? If you want to stay with her take you time to find out if you can still trust her. If you can't there is no point in continuing this relationship because it will only bring heartache and pain. For both of you.

[borneric]

Yes, we discussed it many times...and she also asked me many times if it was sure that I was going to fallow through, I said yes and also did (finalized the papers) about 3 days ironically after they had sex. As I understand she really liked him but he never took that step to fallow through. So, as I understand, when he found out that she was together with me, he started to call her again and she fell for it unfortunelty.

 

In all other areas she is very trustable and I can't say that I caught her in other lies other that lies connected to this event. Only fake it til you make it lies like business related...saying she has clients in europe when she doesn't yet etc.

 

When I ask her detailed questions about what happened that day she always says that she doesn't remember which I find odd because she has a very good memory.

 

I also asked her if they met at any other time but she swears to God and her family that she hasn't, it was only that time..I must say she sounds sincere but she swore to God and family before when she lied...so I don't know..I really don't know.

 

Just the thought that she took it from that guy just makes me sick in my stomach...

[justwhoiam]

Hi Eric,

 

I'll tell you what I think:

 

a) she might be attracted to him and it only ended because he was married and she didn't feel like going on with it

 

b) or she thought she was but then the last meetings turned to dirty encounters and she realized he didn't love her, hence she got out of love

 

If it's option a), you shouldn't be with her. As you said, now he's actually divorced, and she might see him under a different light. With a real chance. Though she said she chose you, that might be her rational side, but her heart might still be with him. And your relationship is bound to fail, because you can't fake it long-term, even with the best intentions.

 

If it's option b), she made a mistake and you could get over it. When a woman falls out of love with someone, it's hard to bring it back. I'm not saying it's impossible, but very hard. If she fell out of love and started despising him too, then I'd say it's over with very slim chances to going back. But the latter doesn't seem to be your case, because she was flirting with him on the phone, she was giving him room to say whatever he felt like... And she was kinda pleased.

 

I sense there might have been a last encounter after that call, so that would mean they didn't meet in August for the last time, rather in September, either soon after he called her when you overheard or before that. But I guess it happened soon after, otherwise you would have heard much hotter stuff, which you didn't.

 

Now, the question: should you go on with her or not? Well, this is the tough decision you need to make.

 

I would consider the following before making a decision:

- is she still attracted to him?

- did it end only because he wasn't fully available at the time and you represented a more viable option?

- how long would you be LD? So how many months/years to go?

- in that timespan, how often would you be able to meet each other?

- how old is she?

- did she have any or many abortions? (I know this is a sensitive topic, but I guess you want a family and this is an issue that might compromise a family, and I know for a fact that Brazil has a high abortion rate statistically, twice the rate of your country)

 

Now considering all these elements, you will see what is best for you and your future. I think you're in love with this girl, but you're still in the early stages, so this would be the right time to end it if you think it best.

Edited March 29, 2014 by justwhoiam

[Michelle ma Belle]

When you're in love with someone, you do not keep in contact with your ex.

 

I disagree with this statement. It's not impossible to remain friends with ex's and in fact, I think it says a lot about a person's character if they can remain on good terms with them. There is nothing worse than being with someone who expends so much energy trashing their ex and wallowing in the past with such negativity.

 

Any decent human being with an ounce of character CAN remain friends with ex's (provided they ended amicably) AND still be deeply committed and in love with their current partners.

 

I'm one that has always remained friends with my ex's but especially with ex husband with whom I was married to for 20 years. We are the best of friends and have worked very hard to carve out a lovely friendship despite our divorce. Both our partners know this about us and therefore we have nothing to hide. We do however conduct ourselves in a manner that is always respectful of each other, our child and our new partners.

 

Not everyone cheats on their partners with their ex's.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Michelle ma Belle

[bubbaganoosh]

Seems like once you empty your plate, she fills it backup with another heaping helping lie and bull $h!t and you keep eating and asking for more.

 

Boils down to this. How much is enough? How many lies before you finally realize that she isn't who you think she is.

 

Do the right thing and move on before they have to pump your stomach form all the bs she fed you.

[borneric]

Thanks for your great insight. I think its more leaning towards option b...she was with him to see if she was making the right decision with me and she probably found out that what she had with me was something worth while..

 

I don't know if she is still attracted to him...probably, I mean, she slept with him in Aug/sept...but she says that she is not. That he is a low life and that he gave her false hope for 1,5 years..

 

She is 30 years old..just turn 30 in january. Mid life crisis???

 

Viable option: I can't say...she said that she followed her heart...towards me.

 

regarding abortions: Interesting, I haven't asked her about this...I will try to bring it up in some way.

 

Thanks again!

 

 

 

Hi Eric,

 

I'll tell you what I think:

 

a) she might be attracted to him and it only ended because he was married and she didn't feel like going on with it

 

b) or she thought she was but then the last meetings turned to dirty encounters and she realized he didn't love her, hence she got out of love

 

If it's option a), you shouldn't be with her. As you said, now he's actually divorced, and she might see him under a different light. With a real chance. Though she said she chose you, that might be her rational side, but her heart might still be with him. And your relationship is bound to fail, because you can't fake it long-term, even with the best intentions.

 

If it's option b), she made a mistake and you could get over it. When a woman falls out of love with someone, it's hard to bring it back. I'm not saying it's impossible, but very hard. If she fell out of love and started despising him too, then I'd say it's over with very slim chances to going back. But the latter doesn't seem to be your case, because she was flirting with him on the phone, she was giving him room to say whatever he felt like... And she was kinda pleased.

 

I sense there might have been a last encounter after that call, so that would mean they didn't meet in August for the last time, rather in September, either soon after he called her when you overheard or before that. But I guess it happened soon after, otherwise you would have heard much hotter stuff, which you didn't.

 

Now, the question: should you go on with her or not? Well, this is the tough decision you need to make.

 

I would consider the following before making a decision:

- is she still attracted to him?

- did it end only because he wasn't fully available at the time and you represented a more viable option?

- how long would you be LD? So how many months/years to go?

- in that timespan, how often would you be able to meet each other?

- how old is she?

- did she have any or many abortions? (I know this is a sensitive topic, but I guess you want a family and this is an issue that might compromise a family, and I know for a fact that Brazil has a high abortion rate statistically, twice the rate of your country)

 

Now considering all these elements, you will see what is best for you and your future. I think you're in love with this girl, but you're still in the early stages, so this would be the right time to end it if you think it best.