Why stay together for the kids?

[gaius]

What's the bad habit you're teaching? Marriage doesn't have to just be about romantic love. In fact, I don't even think that was the original purpose of marriage. It can be about working together as a partnership, and taking care of the responsibilities you brought into the world (children). I don't see the bad habit. I think if the parents can live together, function well together, and raise their children in a stable environment, that's pretty great, even if the romantic part of the marriage is gone.

 

I think when you have young children and get divorced, the romantic part of your life should be on hold anyway, if possible. Bringing a string of new partners and step parents into the mix is often enough a recipe for discord and even molestation.

You don't have to expose every person you date to the kids. There are ways of doing it responsibly once a new relationship has progressed to a certain point. Having an unsexed male in the house isn't exactly a low risk of molestation, even if he is the real father. I remember my step dad going a little above and beyond the affection giving of a dad with my sister a couple times. To the point it creeped me out.

 

I'm not saying that everyone should leave the minute the feelings for their partner dim. There are a million other variables to consider. But if the only reason you're staying is out of some loyalty to the kids, well then you're probably not doing them much of a favor, as many in this thread who have been the kids in that situation can attest to.

[jlola]

You don't have to expose every person you date to the kids. There are ways of doing it responsibly once a new relationship has progressed to a certain point. Having an unsexed male in the house isn't exactly a low risk of molestation, even if he is the real father. I remember my step dad going a little above and beyond the affection giving of a dad with my sister a couple times. To the point it creeped me out.

 

I'm not saying that everyone should leave the minute the feelings for their partner dim. There are a million other variables to consider. But if the only reason you're staying is out of some loyalty to the kids, well then you're probably not doing them much of a favor, as many in this thread who have been the kids in that situation can attest to.

 

What I would give to have had my mother seek her happiness and ours. I think it is important to the health of the children to have happy parents. sometimes they are happier apart than together.

 

But I know I felt my mother's sorrow through her smiles. I wish she had left my father long ago. The relationship as toxic, the home was toxic. The message we got was toxic. stay in your marriage at all cost. It does not matter the disrespect, the lack of loyalty, the cheating, the mood swings, the manipulation, the lying.

 

I knew at a young age my father was all of those things nd tried hard to be the opposite. I would tell my mother I was never going to marry because the example I saw of marriage was dreadful.

 

It was not till recently I realized how commitment phobic I was. I chose the narcissistic commitment phobes and ignored available men. Because that is what I knew. A man who was emotionally unavailable or loyal to his family.

 

My sister is the exact opposite. She has been getting married since her early 20's with most marriages averaging about 2 years. she always has another man on the hook before she lets go of the old. Our parents are our teachers and children absorb so much.

 

I wish my mother had the guts to leave my father long ago. Her excuse now is, "I am so old, what will I do". So she let her whole life pass by, allowed us to learn lessons we did not need to learn, allowed us to live with unhappy home, with toxic parents . they will both say, they stayed for the kids.

[thefooloftheyear]

Well that's good for you, condescending post and all, but you're avoiding the main point. Why would you have to stay with your wife in an unhappy marriage to make all that happen? You can't think about her if you live nearby? You can't call her, ask about her day? See her every weekend? Of course you can. If you're making the deliberate choice to stay with someone who makes you unhappy when you're more than capable of maintaining a healthy and frequent relationship with your daughter, well then there must be some other process going on in your brain. One that's probably more self-involved than you're willing to admit.

 

Not that I'm saying that's your situation, I'm just speaking hypothetically. I have no idea what your situation is.

 

Cmon, bro...Nothing in the world is condescending about the post..I always thought you were the type that was more self assured and less of a weenie than a lot of the crying fools on here. Why, because i said you dont have kids and lack the perspective? Its the truth!..Dont spoil the image..It would be the equivalent of me telling a woman that PMS is no big deal and just grow up and deal with it...I have no perspective so Ill give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

OK, to address your points.

 

Im not avoiding anything...Ive said it in every post..Why stay? There are a myriad of reasons! And no one has a right to judge someone for doing it..

 

In my case, I couldnt see my kid only on alternate weekends..That would kill me...Literally..Frankly, I dont know how some guys do it..And if they can..good for them.There is a thread about this in the divorce section..Go and see how devastated those guys are when they have to hand their kid back after a weekend...Its brutal. And how do you think a kid feels being handed around like a used car? Having a time limit on a visit..?

 

I make good money and she makes nothing...I live in a very expensive area where an average small apartment is more than people's mortgages.-maybe even double the average..Unless i had a printing press, there is no way to support two households in my locale...And no, I am not moving her out of there into a shytty area She is established, has friends is involved in sevral programs, etc,...Not happening..So then, what is my option?

 

There are several other conditions that further complicate this, but I wont go into further detail, its not necessary and its no one's business..You think I am being selfish? Fine..Thats your right..But as you so clearly state, you dont know the situation...Point is...I could do anything, you are right..But what are the ramifications?

 

My daughter has a few friends from broken homes..One lives in the basement of a house that my wife says is about 300 sq ft, damp and dreary, etc.. two kids..The mom looks beaten and defeated..The kids are noticeably insecure..She wanted to drop her kids out of Girl Scouts because she couldnt afford the dues. its like less than a hundred bucks a year..The other moms chipped in and paid..Its sad...All while her exH is banging her friend...Oh how nice..

 

Yep, divorce is soooo easy..

 

TFY

[thefooloftheyear]

What I would give to have had my mother seek her happiness and ours. I think it is important to the health of the children to have happy parents. sometimes they are happier apart than together.

 

But I know I felt my mother's sorrow through her smiles. I wish she had left my father long ago. The relationship as toxic, the home was toxic. The message we got was toxic. stay in your marriage at all cost. It does not matter the disrespect, the lack of loyalty, the cheating, the mood swings, the manipulation, the lying.

 

I knew at a young age my father was all of those things nd tried hard to be the opposite. I would tell my mother I was never going to marry because the example I saw of marriage was dreadful.

 

It was not till recently I realized how commitment phobic I was. I chose the narcissistic commitment phobes and ignored available men. Because that is what I knew. A man who was emotionally unavailable or loyal to his family.

 

My sister is the exact opposite. She has been getting married since her early 20's with most marriages averaging about 2 years. she always has another man on the hook before she lets go of the old. Our parents are our teachers and children absorb so much.

 

I wish my mother had the guts to leave my father long ago. Her excuse now is, "I am so old, what will I do". So she let her whole life pass by, allowed us to learn lessons we did not need to learn, allowed us to live with unhappy home, with toxic parents . they will both say, they stayed for the kids.

 

 

Ill bet anything you are making a bigger deal out of this than your mom is..Your mom sounds like an awesome woman-sounds a lot like my mom..Ill bet she doesnt even thnik about it much, if she is anything like my mother..I have asked my mother the same thing..She laughs about it. She doesnt sit around thinking about how she cheated herself out of a more suitable relationship. To her, we were her life...It didnt matter.

 

Saying she didnt have the guts is doing her a disservice....Lets face it...What if she left and got together with someone who was worse than your dad? You think that cant happen? Think again...

 

I think thats a reason why a lot of people dont leave...they arent all "excited" at the prospect of going out and dating..They are scarred and cynical to it..So rather than blow the whole thing up and turn everyones life upside down, they default to just putting the kids first. Keeping them in a stable home..Not exposing them to the negative ramifications of a divorce..Its a noble sacrifice...You will understand this better if you have some kids of your own.(I am aasuming here-forgive me if I am mistaken)

 

They may not be on the same page, but many put their differences aside and live for their kids..Its unfair, IMO , to criticise them for that..

 

TFY

[jlola]

Ill bet anything you are making a bigger deal out of this than your mom is..Your mom sounds like an awesome woman-sounds a lot like my mom..Ill bet she doesnt even thnik about it much, if she is anything like my mother..I have asked my mother the same thing..She laughs about it. She doesnt sit around thinking about how she cheated herself out of a more suitable relationship. To her, we were her life...It didnt matter.

 

Saying she didnt have the guts is doing her a disservice....Lets face it...What if she left and got together with someone who was worse than your dad? You think that cant happen? Think again...

 

I think thats a reason why a lot of people dont leave...they arent all "excited" at the prospect of going out and dating..They are scarred and cynical to it..So rather than blow the whole thing up and turn everyones life upside down, they default to just putting the kids first. Keeping them in a stable home..Not exposing them to the negative ramifications of a divorce..Its a noble sacrifice...You will understand this better if you have some kids of your own.(I am aasuming here-forgive me if I am mistaken)

 

They may not be on the same page, but many put their differences aside and live for their kids..Its unfair, IMO , to criticise them for that..

 

TFY

Unfortunately, she does think about it. Unfortunately, she remembers every love letter she read from some other woman my father was having an affair with. She once read a letter/card(my father had not given it to his OW yet) that said making love to his OW was the happiest day of his life. Not the day his children were born, the day he made love to another women. I know she has regrets because she talks about all this now. when we were kids, she kept these things secret. But people told us.

 

My mother had no support to leave. Even her family would tell her to stay because divorce was not an option. She would try to leave a few times. But everyone and my father always tried to persuade her we would suffer if she divorced.

 

My father was very physically abusive, this is no exaggeration. To the point I almost died at 1 years old from a beating and stopped breathing. WHO BEATS A 1 YEAR OLD BABY?

 

We got beatings, not spankings. Little girls are doted on by fathers. We were kicked,beaten, insulted . The emotional pain of the insults sometimes hurt worse than the physical pain from the belt.

 

My father had a good career, but he never spent money on us. We wore hand me downs alot. My aunt still tells the story of me wearing pants so short, she told my father he needed to buy me new ones. In front of everyone, he pulled the crotch down and pants were at my hips and stated "no they are long enough".!

We had no toys. And a bicycle for 3 of us to share. Meanwhile he would buy suits,had a closet full of shoes, had to dress to the nine's when he was out. hair and nails, impeccable.

 

I used o beg my mother to leave. We all lived in fear. when the keys clicked turned to open the door, my heart would almost beat out of my chest . He was home . Little girls run up to their father's. we didn't. We would hide in our room.

 

We hid the bruises out of fear and shame. I would not sleep sometimes, hearing my parents fight. It is awful. I do not think anyone is meant to live in constant fear,shame or toxic home. It's traumatic. School became a relief. I hated to hear the bell ring, knowing I had to go back home.

 

I would prefer for all children to be raised in a good home by BOTH parents. But it takes two mature adults, who are willing to make a happy home. Meaning, no constant fighting,yelling,moodiness,cheating,physical abuse, mental abuse,drug or alcohol abuse.

 

Otherwise,what are you really doing for the child? Giving them a toxic home with 2 parents who are too emotionally immature to raise them right.

 

 

 

 

 

My moter came from a culture that did not believe in divorce, she had no support.

[Nyla]

I will never be a mother, but I don't believe in staying together for children.

 

My parents did that and it was a terrible mistake. I witnessed so much anger, my mother's severe depression and a home thick with tension. My mother never forgave my father for his affair. 20 years and an empty nest later, my mother kicks herself for staying with my father. She also took out a lot of her anger on me because I look like someone she hates; my father's sister.

 

I only think staying together for the children is okay if the parents can stop fighting.

[thefooloftheyear]

Unfortunately, she does think about it. Unfortunately, she remembers every love letter she read from some other woman my father was having an affair with. She once read a letter/card(my father had not given it to his OW yet) that said making love to his OW was the happiest day of his life. Not the day his children were born, the day he made love to another women. I know she has regrets because she talks about all this now. when we were kids, she kept these things secret. But people told us.

 

My mother had no support to leave. Even her family would tell her to stay because divorce was not an option. She would try to leave a few times. But everyone and my father always tried to persuade her we would suffer if she divorced.

 

My father was very physically abusive, this is no exaggeration. To the point I almost died at 1 years old from a beating and stopped breathing. WHO BEATS A 1 YEAR OLD BABY?

 

We got beatings, not spankings. Little girls are doted on by fathers. We were kicked,beaten, insulted . The emotional pain of the insults sometimes hurt worse than the physical pain from the belt.

 

My father had a good career, but he never spent money on us. We wore hand me downs alot. My aunt still tells the story of me wearing pants so short, she told my father he needed to buy me new ones. In front of everyone, he pulled the crotch down and pants were at my hips and stated "no they are long enough".!

We had no toys. And a bicycle for 3 of us to share. Meanwhile he would buy suits,had a closet full of shoes, had to dress to the nine's when he was out. hair and nails, impeccable.

 

I used o beg my mother to leave. We all lived in fear. when the keys clicked turned to open the door, my heart would almost beat out of my chest . He was home . Little girls run up to their father's. we didn't. We would hide in our room.

 

We hid the bruises out of fear and shame. I would not sleep sometimes, hearing my parents fight. It is awful. I do not think anyone is meant to live in constant fear,shame or toxic home. It's traumatic. School became a relief. I hated to hear the bell ring, knowing I had to go back home.

 

I would prefer for all children to be raised in a good home by BOTH parents. But it takes two mature adults, who are willing to make a happy home. Meaning, no constant fighting,yelling,moodiness,cheating,physical abuse, mental abuse,drug or alcohol abuse.

 

Otherwise,what are you really doing for the child? Giving them a toxic home with 2 parents who are too emotionally immature to raise them right.

 

 

 

 

 

My moter came from a culture that did not believe in divorce, she had no support.

 

IM so sorry..Thats unimaginable...your mother is a Saint...She is NOT weak...You say its toxic and I am sure it was, but the alternative could have been worse..You just dont know...And thats the point...Parents sacrifice themselves for the betterment of their kids.. If you ask her, the alternative was worse for the kids, or she would have done it..

 

Your scenario may be extreme, but think about this...

 

Lets say I am married to a person that isnt so bad, but is an alcoholic and wont change..So I want out, we dont get along...blah, blah,.,,OK, we get divorced. She gets the custodial rights because I am the primary earner and somone has to pay the bills. So now, as a responsible dad, who is concerned for the welfare of my kids, I am forced to put my kids in a dysfunctional situation that I no longer can control or have any say. Im out of the picture...Sure I can fight for custody, but how am I supposed to work and pay the bills, alimony, etc AND care for little kids? Its a dead end street.

 

This is only one hypothetical situation, but I can name a hundred others..Parents have a sense of duty.

 

TFY

[ASG]

No one says they have to hate each other and fight all the time.

Sometimes spouses just fall out of love, but remain civil. Or one spouse feels like leaving. Or heck, they might both hate each other but at least keep it civil.

 

If you can stay without constant fights, tension and abuse then sure, stay. Chances are its better for the kids.

 

I'm glad you were fine with their divorce, and while I'm sure you're not the only kid who felt that way, there are also a lot of kids who dealt very poorly with their parents divorce.

 

One of my friends actually had an mother who was abusive towards his dad. He understood both then and later that it was for the best that they'd seperate, but he still always hoped and wished for them to get back together.

 

But if they can be so civil, then why not separate and remain civil?

 

It's what my parents did. My dad left. Yet he would still pick us up from school almost every day, since my mom worked late, would take us home, wait there with us for my mom to arrive. She'd get there, make us all dinner, we'd eat and then my dad would leave.

 

Any time there was any sort of issue with me or my brother, my parents were on the phone to each other trying to come up with a solution/answer/whatever.

 

I remember being a teenager and obviously I wanted to start going out to parties, late at night, and go clubbing... I would always ask my mom first, knowing fully well her answer would be "you need to ask your dad as well". Then I would call him and ask, and then they'd speak to each other and come to a conclusion as to whether I could or could not go to said party/event/whatever.

 

If a couple is making the effort to be civil, for the kids (and we're talking about actual broken relationships, not just relationships without passion), then what's stopping them from doing exactly the same,but from different houses? It can work and I actually know a few other cases like mine, where the parents made such and effort to be there for the kids, the kids never really felt the divorce as a bad thing!

[thefooloftheyear]

But if they can be so civil, then why not separate and remain civil?

 

It's what my parents did. My dad left. Yet he would still pick us up from school almost every day, since my mom worked late, would take us home, wait there with us for my mom to arrive. She'd get there, make us all dinner, we'd eat and then my dad would leave.

 

Any time there was any sort of issue with me or my brother, my parents were on the phone to each other trying to come up with a solution/answer/whatever.

 

I remember being a teenager and obviously I wanted to start going out to parties, late at night, and go clubbing... I would always ask my mom first, knowing fully well her answer would be "you need to ask your dad as well". Then I would call him and ask, and then they'd speak to each other and come to a conclusion as to whether I could or could not go to said party/event/whatever.

 

If a couple is making the effort to be civil, for the kids (and we're talking about actual broken relationships, not just relationships without passion), then what's stopping them from doing exactly the same,but from different houses? It can work and I actually know a few other cases like mine, where the parents made such and effort to be there for the kids, the kids never really felt the divorce as a bad thing!

 

 

In fairness, you are only one person and can only speak for yourself...Im glad it worked out best for you..That being said..

 

What if your mom was an alcoholic and coouldnt hold down a job? And your dad couldnt get custody, because his job was such that he couldnt dedicate the time? And he was the primary earner..Would it have been the right thing at that point for him to bail on you and your siblings anyway and let you just fare for yourselves living under a roof with an alcoholic that couldnt properly care/raise you in the way thats proper? Or would it have been better, because they werent fighting to remain "together" for the sake of making sure nothing untoward happens to you?

 

Point is, no two scenarios are the same..All it takes is one condition to throw the whole thing out of whack...

 

TFY

[ASG]

In fairness, you are only one person and can only speak for yourself...Im glad it worked out best for you..That being said..

 

What if your mom was an alcoholic and coouldnt hold down a job? And your dad couldnt get custody, because his job was such that he couldnt dedicate the time? And he was the primary earner..Would it have been the right thing at that point for him to bail on you and your siblings anyway and let you just fare for yourselves living under a roof with an alcoholic that couldnt properly care/raise you in the way thats proper? Or would it have been better, because they werent fighting to remain "together" for the sake of making sure nothing untoward happens to you?

 

Point is, no two scenarios are the same..All it takes is one condition to throw the whole thing out of whack...

 

TFY

 

If you can't take your kids because of your job, then you need a different job. When it comes to the scenario you're describing, of course, with the alcoholic mother who couldn't raise the kids.

 

Why should the man be stuck in a relationship with an alcoholic (and I can bet you such a relationship would NOT be civil)? How is that better for the children?

 

My uncle left his wife and took his kids BECAUSE she was an alcoholic. He would not have let them stay with her. Even the weekends were a mess when they went to her house!

 

Of course I am just one example, but then again, so are you.

[jlola]

IM so sorry..Thats unimaginable...your mother is a Saint...She is NOT weak...You say its toxic and I am sure it was, but the alternative could have been worse..You just dont know...And thats the point...Parents sacrifice themselves for the betterment of their kids.. If you ask her, the alternative was worse for the kids, or she would have done it..

 

Your scenario may be extreme, but think about this...

 

Lets say I am married to a person that isnt so bad, but is an alcoholic and wont change..So I want out, we dont get along...blah, blah,.,,OK, we get divorced. She gets the custodial rights because I am the primary earner and somone has to pay the bills. So now, as a responsible dad, who is concerned for the welfare of my kids, I am forced to put my kids in a dysfunctional situation that I no longer can control or have any say. Im out of the picture...Sure I can fight for custody, but how am I supposed to work and pay the bills, alimony, etc AND care for little kids? Its a dead end street.

 

This is only one hypothetical situation, but I can name a hundred others..Parents have a sense of duty.

 

TFY

How could it have been worse? For my mother to leave this man and then marry a known criminal or addict? I doubt she would have done that. The one person I feared in my life was my father. Why would my mother have had to remarry? She did not have to. She had a job. Also, I am sure had she reported the incidents, we could have gotten supplemental housing. There were many nice places with lowered rents for women with jobs, My mother also had a lot of prime land back in her country her parents left her as they had been wealthy. She could have sold it(My father would sell parcels and keep half her inheritance whenever he pleased).

 

I do not think children or anyone are meant to live life in perpetual fear and people should stay because it could be worse. I always think how can a human heart beat in fear all the time and still be healthy? I can identify with prisoners of war who lived in fear of captors. My father used to threaten to kill us all the time. Do you know what it's like to have perpetual fear? From your own parent who should be protecting you? As a child, I had such bad migraines they took x-ray's to make sure I did not have a brain tumor. The migraines were from stress. He ruptured my eardrum and I can only hear out of one ear.

 

If everyone thought like that"It could be worse, so stay), noone would leave their abusers. Noone would strive for a better life. No one would take risk for happiness. I hear stories all the time of parents who abused children, or people who kidnapped others and abuse them. Others always wonder why they did not try to escape the captor. It is because they are so mentally beat down and paralyzed with fear, they have no optimism left.

 

Instead of seeing they may get into a better situation, they think it will be worse. The abuser loves that because he is in control.

 

Children are meant to be in a safe loving environment. they thrive with love,hugs,security,smiles, calm homes, emotionally sane parents, parents ho are not addicts. A young mind can be so easily destroyed or made depressed by the wrong people.

[thefooloftheyear]

How could it have been worse? For my mother to leave this man and then marry a known criminal or addict? I doubt she would have done that. The one person I feared in my life was my father. Why would my mother have had to remarry? She did not have to. She had a job. Also, I am sure had she reported the incidents, we could have gotten supplemental housing. There were many nice places with lowered rents for women with jobs, My mother also had a lot of prime land back in her country her parents left her as they had been wealthy. She could have sold it(My father would sell parcels and keep half her inheritance whenever he pleased).

 

I do not think children or anyone are meant to live life in perpetual fear and people should stay because it could be worse. I always think how can a human heart beat in fear all the time and still be healthy? I can identify with prisoners of war who lived in fear of captors. My father used to threaten to kill us all the time. Do you know what it's like to have perpetual fear? From your own parent who should be protecting you? As a child, I had such bad migraines they took x-ray's to make sure I did not have a brain tumor. The migraines were from stress. He ruptured my eardrum and I can only hear out of one ear.

 

If everyone thought like that"It could be worse, so stay), noone would leave their abusers. Noone would strive for a better life. No one would take risk for happiness. I hear stories all the time of parents who abused children, or people who kidnapped others and abuse them. Others always wonder why they did not try to escape the captor. It is because they are so mentally beat down and paralyzed with fear, they have no optimism left.

 

Instead of seeing they may get into a better situation, they think it will be worse. The abuser loves that because he is in control.

 

Children are meant to be in a safe loving environment. they thrive with love,hugs,security,smiles, calm homes, emotionally sane parents, parents ho are not addicts. A young mind can be so easily destroyed or made depressed by the wrong people.

 

You missed the point....

 

Look, if half of what you are saying is true its beyond horrible...I agree with you...

 

But, you are in effect calling your mother a coward for staying, which isnt really fair...She felt some need to do what she did, so she did it(stay)...She didnt do it to deliberately torture you. Maybe she thought that if you spent time with your father alone she wouldnt have been able to control what might happen so she chose to keep you under her wing...I dunno...

 

You can say it would never have been worse, but the reality is it didnt happen, so you can only speculate..I know what its like to have it hard..I didnt fear physical abuse, but there were other issues. Try to understand your mothers motives behind what she did..Maybe in the end you are/were right..But I am 100% sure she had your best interest at heart when she made her decisions..

 

I hope you continue to heal and lead a happy life..

 

TFY

[Nyla]

A woman who tolerates abuse and infidelity is a doormat. Full stop. There is nothing saintly or admirable about being a cowardly fool. I don't respect anyone who puts up with such foolishness.

 

Sometimes these types stay with their husbands because they are not brave enough to live on their own. It actually has very little to do with their children and I have told my mother that.

[thefooloftheyear]

A woman who tolerates abuse and infidelity is a doormat. Full stop. There is nothing saintly or admirable about being a cowardly fool. I don't respect anyone who puts up with such foolishness.

 

Sometimes these types stay with their husbands because they are not brave enough to live on their own. It actually has very little to do with their children and I have told my mother that.

 

Kinda odd how all of the ones with no kids know all about what sacrificing for kids should be...

 

Let me tell you what I know about PMS.....Nothing....

 

TFY

[jlola]

Kinda odd how all of the ones with no kids know all about what sacrificing for kids should be...

 

Let me tell you what I know about PMS.....Nothing....

 

TFY

 

My sisters have children and they feel the same.

 

I have to ask a question. If a stranger went up to a child, beat them, abused them,insulted them. Noone would turn around and tell the child to forgive because he could have " done much worse". People would do all to protect a child. The man beating on the child would be mincemeat.

 

The child would be traumatized perhaps for life .

 

But when a child is being abused by the very person who is supposed to protect them, their parent,then it's ok and they have to suck it up because "It could be worse". What in the world does this mean? The child will still have the same trauma as a stranger beating them for years. Worse since the betrayal by the abusive parent who is supposed to love them runs deep. Te message from society and the abusive parent is "You don't matter", "you are less than a dog" , "I will kick and beat you when I want because you belong to me".

 

Abuse is abuse. I very highly doubt any parent would sit there and allow someone to abuse their child time and time again and think "phew, it could have been worse'. But that is the advice they give everyone else. Why? why if it is your child being abused it is different? Because you do not want your child to be in pain, you do not want your child to feel less than, you do not want your child deeply scarred physically or emotionally. Their mental health at risk, their trust in others at risk But as long as it's someone else's child. You recommend the child be more understanding of this abusive environment?

 

Could any one here sit and watch their little child being beaten severely often by another and tell people who do not have kids they cannot have an opinion, "Well,you don't have kids, so you cannot judge this abuser".

 

I do not need to understand what is is like to have a penis to understand pain, disrespect and abuse is wrong!

Edited October 15, 2013 by jlola

[thefooloftheyear]

My sisters have children and they feel the same.

 

I have to ask a question. If a stranger went up to a child, beat them, abused them,insulted them. Noone would turn around and tell the child to forgive because he could have " done much worse". People would do all to protect a child. The man beating on the child would be mincemeat.

 

The child would be traumatized perhaps for life .

 

But when a child is being abused by the very person who is supposed to protect them, their parent,then it's ok and they have to suck it up because "It could be worse". What in the world does this mean? The child will still have the same trauma as a stranger beating them for years. Worse since the betrayal by the abusive parent who is supposed to love them runs deep. Te message from society and the abusive parent is "You don't matter", "you are less than a dog" , "I will kick and beat you when I want because you belong to me".

 

Abuse is abuse. I very highly doubt any parent would sit there and allow someone to abuse their child time and time again and think "phew, it could have been worse'. But that is the advice they give everyone else. Why? why if it is your child being abused it is different? Because you do not want your child to be in pain, you do not want your child to feel less than, you do not want your child deeply scarred physically or emotionally. Their mental health at risk, their trust in others at risk But as long as it's someone else's child. You recommend the child be more understanding of this abusive environment?

 

Could any one here sit and watch their little child being beaten severely often by another and tell people who do not have kids they cannot have an opinion, "Well,you don't have kids, so you cannot judge this abuser".

 

I do not need to understand what is is like to have a penis to understand pain, disrespect and abuse is wrong!

 

I dont know why you are grandstanding...Under the circumstances you laid out(even if half of it was true), forget divorce...then the person should be put in prison...If someone laid a hand on my kid, they would be in for a world of problems that would make divorce seem like a trip to the Caribbean....End of story...

 

But there are a host of other scenarios that keep parents form subjecting their kids to the ravages of a divorce..And they dont need to justify it to anyone.

 

Right, wrong or indifferent...you arent the parent and arent in a position to sit and judge-or make accusations about their motives not being genuine..(im not saying you -personally)..

 

I hope for your sake that once you have kids that everything goes just absolutely perfect...

 

Im done trying to explain it....

 

 

Be well...

 

TFY

[Nyla]

Kinda odd how all of the ones with no kids know all about what sacrificing for kids should be...

 

Let me tell you what I know about PMS.....Nothing....

 

TFY

 

You clearly know nothing about what it is to grow up in a home with parents who are loudly at each other's throats.

 

Of course, that situation is much better for children than two homes right?

[Nyla]

I dont know why you are grandstanding...Under the circumstances you laid out(even if half of it was true), forget divorce...then the person should be put in prison...If someone laid a hand on my kid, they would be in for a world of problems that would make divorce seem like a trip to the Caribbean....End of story...

 

But there are a host of other scenarios that keep parents form subjecting their kids to the ravages of a divorce..And they dont need to justify it to anyone.

 

Right, wrong or indifferent...you arent the parent and arent in a position to sit and judge-or make accusations about their motives not being genuine..(im not saying you -personally)..

 

I hope for your sake that once you have kids that everything goes just absolutely perfect...

 

Im done trying to explain it....

 

 

Be well...

 

TFY

 

Everyone is free to make their own judgements about what they deem to be healthy. You do not control what people choose to judge. All you're doing is repeating the same point without any consideration of how damaging it is for children to grow up in a home with constantly fighting parents. Therefore, your "explanation" lacks a through evaluation of the costs of staying together for the children.

 

I know that I could have done without some of the things I had to witness after my father's affair. There were many times I didn't even want to go home. When my parents briefly separated, things were calm again albeit sad. At least I didn't have to listen to my mother screaming and crying late at night.

 

Please tell me why it was better for me to go through all that turmoil rather than have divorced parents. I hope you have a real answer rather than just repetitious clichés.

[ASG]

Kinda odd how all of the ones with no kids know all about what sacrificing for kids should be...

 

Let me tell you what I know about PMS.....Nothing....

 

TFY

 

I don't have to have children to know what's better in this kind of situation.

 

Because I was the child. I lived it! I was better off for my parents to have divorced!

And my dad didn't magically disappear and become a weekend dad. Not at all. He was always an every day dad!

*THAT* was the sacrifice my parents made. To maintain much closer contact than they would have liked. For us.

When compared to *that* how is staying in a broken marriage better?

[thefooloftheyear]

Everyone is free to make their own judgements about what they deem to be healthy. You do not control what people choose to judge. All you're doing is repeating the same point without any consideration of how damaging it is for children to grow up in a home with constantly fighting parents. Therefore, your "explanation" lacks a through evaluation of the costs of staying together for the children.

 

I know that I could have done without some of the things I had to witness after my father's affair. There were many times I didn't even want to go home. When my parents briefly separated, things were calm again albeit sad. At least I didn't have to listen to my mother screaming and crying late at night.

 

Please tell me why it was better for me to go through all that turmoil rather than have divorced parents. I hope you have a real answer rather than just repetitious clichés.

 

 

First of all..I have NEVER, in any post said it was definitively better to stay in a dysfuntional M for the kids..My only contention is that it could be worse if there is a divorce..No one wants to be a child stuck in the middle of their parents problems. But it happens.

 

 

The point is this....

 

They stayed together..You survived to be the awesome person you are.. What if they divorced and your mean father failed to pay support?..And your lights got shut off and your heat-and you were left in financial ruins?...Or your dad, now that he was free to do what he wants, decides to start screwing your aunt Nancy-which destroyed your mother even further and wrecks your whole family.? Or your mother could have got a new bf/H that -heaven forbid - sexually or physically abused you. Or your mother becomes an alcoholic or abuses prescription drugs, due to the depression of the failed marriage.? This isnt fantasy..this type of stuff happens every day.

 

All of these are hypotheticals..And I am tired or I can put a thousand other scenarios up..You, me, nor anyone else can predict what could or would have happened. Your parents infidelity issues, while unpleasant was THEIR problem, not yours-directly...

 

Getting a divorce does not guarantee anything..I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no divorce Shang-Ri- La. Could things have been better? Sure! But just saying they would be is not taking account the possibilities they could have been worse....You have to admit it, you just dont know..

 

I dont want to fight with y'all...I had a very hard life as a kid..Infidelty? That would have been a day at the beach compared to what went on in my house. And I have the perspective that a lot of you dont..My mother left the family(and she had a right to), 3 seperate times...And you know what? We were almost in the street until she came back. My siblings and I would have wound up in a foster home or living with relatives. My parents did all the things you say your parents did. And my dad would likely make your dad look like dad of the century. They had their differences plenty...but they did love us..on that they were united...I am sure the same thing was occuring in your household.

 

So I say to you, dont be so idealistic...Your parents did what they did, likely not for their own selfish reasons, but because they loved you dearly and, for whatever reason, didnt think that divorce was the better option. Try to give them a shred of the benefit of the doubt...even if just a little. You now have the autonomy to orchestrate your life and your relationships any way you want...And when(if?) you have kids, then you will have a better understanding, as a parent, what sacrifices are made for them on a day in and day out basis.

 

I wish you well...

 

TFY

Edited October 16, 2013 by thefooloftheyear

[Nyla]

First of all..I have NEVER, in any post said it was definitively better to stay in a dysfuntional M for the kids..My only contention is that it could be worse if there is a divorce..No one wants to be a child stuck in the middle of their parents problems. But it happens.

 

 

The point is this....

 

They stayed together..You survived to be the awesome person you are.. What if they divorced and your mean father failed to pay support?..And your lights got shut off and your heat-and you were left in financial ruins?...Or your dad, now that he was free to do what he wants, decides to start screwing your aunt Nancy-which destroyed your mother even further and wrecks your whole family.? Or your mother could have got a new bf/H that -heaven forbid - sexually or physically abused you. Or your mother becomes an alcoholic or abuses prescription drugs, due to the depression of the failed marriage.? This isnt fantasy..this type of stuff happens every day.

 

All of these are hypotheticals..And I am tired or I can put a thousand other scenarios up..You, me, nor anyone else can predict what could or would have happened. Your parents infidelity issues, while unpleasant was THEIR problem, not yours-directly...

 

Getting a divorce does not guarantee anything..I hate to burst your bubble, but there is no divorce Shang-Ri- La. Could things have been better? Sure! But just saying they would be is not taking account the possibilities they could have been worse....You have to admit it, you just dont know..

 

I dont want to fight with y'all...I had a very hard life as a kid..Infidelty? That would have been a day at the beach compared to what went on in my house. And I have the perspective that a lot of you dont..My mother left the family(and she had a right to), 3 seperate times...And you know what? We were almost in the street until she came back. My siblings and I would have wound up in a foster home or living with relatives. My parents did all the things you say your parents did. And my dad would likely make your dad look like dad of the century. They had their differences plenty...but they did love us..on that they were united...I am sure the same thing was occuring in your household.

 

So I say to you, dont be so idealistic...Your parents did what they did, likely not for their own selfish reasons, but because they loved you dearly and, for whatever reason, didnt think that divorce was the better option. Try to give them a shred of the benefit of the doubt...even if just a little. You now have the autonomy to orchestrate your life and your relationships any way you want...And when(if?) you have kids, then you will have a better understanding, as a parent, what sacrifices are made for them on a day in and day out basis.

 

I wish you well...

 

TFY

 

You have to admit that you just don't know either. Infidelity is no picnic when it involves witnessing physical abuse and other traumatic scenes. You know nothing about what went on in my household. The infidelity had everything to do with me because I was in the eye of that storm...I was the one my mother was confiding in as if I was an adult. I actively hated my father for a long time and I still snarl at him when he tries to make comments about my morals.

 

I am far from "awesome". I have too many psychological issues to want to become a parent. While it is true that I have the autonomy to build my relationships as I see fit, I am certainly still haunted by my father's infidelity. That is what trauma does to people.

 

Sure, divorce does not guarantee anything. I know my mom regrets staying with my father and I also saw firsthand the pain it caused her to stay. This is where my perception comes from.

 

I would have thought differently if the infidelity did not result in some of the terrible things I witnessed.