No contact with AP's wife has been the hardest for me

[rae_lana]

Rae, you keep saying your H is a good man, and maybe that's why others are glossing over his (incredibly) bad points. You consider him some sort of savior because he took you away from your sexual abusers. But unfortunately, he doesn't sound like a rescuer to me. He sounds like someone who found an emotionally vulnerable person and took them away from one type of abuse into another. You view him as your rescuer and a good man, because what he does to you seems less hurtful compared to the sexual assaults you went through.

 

I don't think your H would make a good partner for any woman until he gets himself some help on his major issues. Only emotionally weak and vulnerable women would put up with your H.

 

Given the details you've already told us about your H, I don't find it at all bizarre that he doesn't want to see his kids. Most people seem to think that it's because he doesn't want to see you and is just hurting, which could be right. But I think that's only a small part of the reason. To me, he sounds like a d*ck who just wouldn't give a sh*t about seeing his kids. Though I'm willing the entertain the idea that he's not that much of a d*ck and is only doing it because he's hurting.

 

I think you're right to leave him so that you can finally get healthy. From what I've read, it doesn't sound to me like you're leaving for the OM, but because your marriage is unhealthy. I hope that's how you feel about it, so that you can see yourself as your own rescuer this time not another man.

.

 

He's a good guy in my eyes because I'm the only one he really treats like that. Friends and family wouldn't even believe me except for the few who are really close to us.. This couple especially.. And one other friend who stopped hanging out with us specifically because she hated how he talked to me.

 

He is hurting I do think he must be. He does love me, but he did always feel like he owned me I think. He did meet me at the end of a very bad situation in my life and saved me from it and always felt I owed him I think. I do want good things for him. I want him to find someone who loves him like he should be loved and who he can be happy with.

 

Thank you very much for trying to see every side.

[rae_lana]

From what I've read, it doesn't sound to me like you're leaving for the OM, but because your marriage is unhealthy. I hope that's how you feel about it, so that you can see yourself as your own rescuer this time not another man.

 

I'm glad both you and OM have realized that an open relationship might not be what you want. I don't know if you remember me telling you that I don't think you're into the idea of an open relationship as much as you want others to believe. What you said about only wanting that because you don't think you're good enough by yourself is exactly what I meant. You don't really want you and your partner having sex with other people, but you convinced yourself you did out of insecurity.

 

I'm also glad that OM is in counseling. I hope that you are as well so that in the 6 month time limit you've given yourself, you'll be in a better position to make healthy decisions for yourself.

 

You are right that this is more about me finding strength to leave a marriage I knew was unhealthy, I felt like that for a long time but because I'm the only one he talks to like that I did always just think I was the problem.

 

Me and AP have talked every day... But no sex or physical contact other than a hug the other day.. despite what people might think... This was definitely not just about sex at all. There's a lot more to it.

[rae_lana]

Someone said something about me wanting him to choose me over her, I'm not in competition with her. It's him who wanted us to end our marriages and be together, and he still says that everyday.

[Trimmer]

As rae said, she's definitely mentioned he husband does these things multiple times. And I've been baffled as to why almost everyone keeps putting her H on a pedestal when he sounds like an emotionally abusive d*ck who Rae would be better off without.

I think you are way off base when you say "almost everyone keeps putting her H on a pedestal."

 

I've actually been struck, in rae's threads, at the degree to which the focus has stayed largely on her betrayal of her female friend, with much less emphasis put on her betrayal of her own marriage commitments. This may well be a tacit recognition of the problems within her marriage, and is not at all inconsistent with your impression of her husband.

 

And even having said that, any degree to which people do point out her failure to remain faithful within her own marriage still doesn't qualify as putting her husband on a pedestal. Pointing out that he may feel hurt in trying to figure out his behavior relative to their kids - in spite of the fact that he might not be a great guy - is not putting him on a pedestal. His behavior is not an excuse or justification for her bad choices, nor is it the reason she finds herself in this horrible mess. Asking her to clarify her statements, which have been ambiguous at times (and fabrications at others) so we can have a clear view of her situation is not putting her husband on a pedestal. And so on, and so on....

 

As a matter of fact, one could argue that if it turns out that he is an abuser, whether physical or emotional, then her choice to be unfaithful may have been particularly dangerous for her, from the perspective that it is highly likely to inflame what is already (apparently) a volatile situation. And pointing that out to her is not putting him on a pedestal either.

 

Just because you don't see people excusing her actions because of her husband or jumping to her defense based on her assertions that he's emotionally abusive doesn't equate to "almost everyone putting her husband on a pedestal." She needs to own her behavior, both in relation to her (former) marriage and her (former) friendship. She always had the choice available to leave the marriage based on its problems, and that's still a fair discussion, but it doesn't change or excuse the gravity of the situation that her choices have created for her, and holding her accountable for owning that is not putting her husband on a pedestal.

[cif]

Rae did own her mistakes by coming clean to her H and friend. She owes her H nothing more than to co-parent the children. Threads in the past few months have shown she has tried to work on her M but couldn't get a pulse on her H. OP has shown dignity in the aftermath of DDay. She cannot be held responsible for other's actions.

[The Way I Am]

He's a good guy in my eyes because I'm the only one he really treats like that. Friends and family wouldn't even believe me except for the few who are really close to us.. This couple especially.. And one other friend who stopped hanging out with us specifically because she hated how he talked to me.

 

This is typical of abusive people. They only treat the person they're abusing like crap. To everyone else, they're usually an amazing person.

[The Way I Am]

I think you are way off base when you say "almost everyone keeps putting her H on a pedestal."

 

I've actually been struck, in rae's threads, at the degree to which the focus has stayed largely on her betrayal of her female friend, with much less emphasis put on her betrayal of her own marriage commitments. This may well be a tacit recognition of the problems within her marriage, and is not at all inconsistent with your impression of her husband.

 

Various posters have implied that Rae isn't worthy of her husband, the OM "doesn't hold a candle" to her husband, etc. To me, that does seem to be putting him on a pedestal. Yeah, OM doesn't sound like any prize, but neither does her H. Last time I brought up that I didn't think it OM's flaws mattered because Rae wasn't leaving for him and was doing what was best for her, that was met with sarcastic criticism and the conversation basically turned into a comparison of H and OM that seemed to imply H was some amazing guy.

 

You're partly right though. I probably was over stating by thinking it was most people. The posters that have put the H on a pedestal were overly vocal about it. But it probably wasn't a majority of the posters, just a majority of posts on certain threads. That was my mistake.

 

And even having said that, any degree to which people do point out her failure to remain faithful within her own marriage still doesn't qualify as putting her husband on a pedestal.

 

I haven't taken it that way. That's not what I refer to about people putting him on a pedestal.

 

Pointing out that he may feel hurt in trying to figure out his behavior relative to their kids - in spite of the fact that he might not be a great guy - is not putting him on a pedestal.

 

That's not what I was referring to either. I was just pointing out that unlike people who think the story is bizarre because he doesn't want to see his kids, it doesn't seem that surprising to me given what Rae's said about her H.

 

His behavior is not an excuse or justification for her bad choices, nor is it the reason she finds herself in this horrible mess. Asking her to clarify her statements, which have been ambiguous at times (and fabrications at others) so we can have a clear view of her situation is not putting her husband on a pedestal. And so on, and so on....

 

None of this is what I was referring to either.

 

As a matter of fact, one could argue that if it turns out that he is an abuser, whether physical or emotional, then her choice to be unfaithful may have been particularly dangerous for her, from the perspective that it is highly likely to inflame what is already (apparently) a volatile situation.

 

This isn't relevant, because we were never at any point advising Rae whether she should start an affair. She came here after it started.

 

And pointing that out to her is not putting him on a pedestal either.

 

I wouldn't consider that to be either.

 

Just because you don't see people excusing her actions because of her husband or jumping to her defense based on her assertions that he's emotionally abusive doesn't equate to "almost everyone putting her husband on a pedestal." She needs to own her behavior, both in relation to her (former) marriage and her (former) friendship. She always had the choice available to leave the marriage based on its problems, and that's still a fair discussion, but it doesn't change or excuse the gravity of the situation that her choices have created for her, and holding her accountable for owning that is not putting her husband on a pedestal.

 

You've completely misinterpreted what I said.

 

I don't excuse Rae's actions. But I'm not going to recommend she stay with a guy who seems like a d*ck just because she made poor choices in dealing with the relationship with that guy. Rae is actually making some decent decisions now, and people are still jumping all over her. She's owning her actions. She came clean and is answering all of OM's wife's questions. I'm not going to continue to criticize her for her past actions when she's finally owning them and moving forward.

 

Her husband doesn't want to talk to her. She doesn't want to talk to him but wants him in her children's lives. Some people are still encouraging her to find ways to work it out with him. Yes, I do consider that to be putting him on a pedestal (at least compared to how they view Rae). Because I don't consider him a man Rae should be in a relationship with. And I think that's terrible advice. I haven't really flat out stated that I think Rae's H is abusive before now, because I wanted Rae to get into counseling and work that out with a professional equipped to help her. I didn't want to influence Rae in deciding to end her marriage based on just what I know from her side.

 

But since she's decided to end the marriage on her own, I'm fully supportive of her on that. I completely disagree with anyone who criticizes her for not wanting to stay in her marriage.

Edited October 19, 2013 by The Way I Am

[Trimmer]

You're partly right though. I probably was over stating by thinking it was most people.

And you didn't even say "most", you said "almost everyone", and I think that's what I reacted to, why I called it "way off base", and why I (unnecessarily) kept beating the point, because I thought you must have been interpreting almost everything you were reading as being somehow complimentary to her husband. And I was reading a lot of commentary that has had little to do with him.

 

You've completely misinterpreted what I said.

If you are willing to concede on the "almost everyone" qualifier, then I agree.

 

As I pointed out, I believe "most" (ah, careful! ) of the emphasis has been on her own behavior, largely in relation to her former best friend. I think most of those commenters have it basically right - she seems to be in a marriage that should probably end anyway, and it wasn't a very good idea to force it to end in this fashion, but the real bond she had, the real connection that she threw away, the astounding betrayal that we can't believe, is that of her former best friend.

 

I don't excuse Rae's actions. But I'm not going to recommend she stay with a guy who seems like a d*ck just because she made poor choices in dealing with the relationship with that guy. Rae is actually making some decent decisions now, and people are still jumping all over her. She's owning her actions. She came clean and is answering all of OM's wife's questions. I'm not going to continue to criticize her for her past actions when she's finally owning them and moving forward.

Fair enough - I think you and I are of the same mind on this.

 

But since she's decided to end the marriage on her own, I'm fully supportive of her on that. I completely disagree with anyone who criticizes her for not wanting to stay in her marriage.

I agree.

[The Way I Am]

And you didn't even say "most", you said "almost everyone", and I think that's what I reacted to, why I called it "way off base",

 

Sorry, poor choice of words on my part. Thanks for understanding.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I for one have no issue with someone leaving a relationship for anything that they feel is a dealbreaker. How you leave it, is the only really issue.

 

In regard to her future relationship with her STBXH, she most certainly does have to find a way to work with him, as they will be co-parents for a good many years.

 

Also, in regard to her STBXH's behaviour of avoidance/running/distancing, I do not know enough about his position/feelings to make such broad statements against him. What I imagine he is feeling is rejected, maybe whether or not the children are his, emasculated (do not underestimate how a man feels about being cuckhold), confused, profoundly hurt, made a fool of...the list goes on.

 

FTR, I do not have to put a person on a pedestal to have empathy for their position, I only have to view them as a fellow human being in pain.

[Snipercatt]

Rae_lana, I agree, from your postings, that you and your MM are equally "broken". It is my opinion that all of humankind has flaws and that we have a responsibility to ourselves, to our family, and to others to overcome those flaws, regardless of the reasons that we have them.

 

Having been sexually abused, at a very young age and into the age of a teenager, I do understand much of what you post regarding your personality, and that of your MM. I think most cultures view men as being more of a villain, and women as being victims, when this has occurred. Time and again you mention that you aren't playing the victim, and I believe you. It just may be that posters are SEEING you as a victim of your childhood, and of MM, because that is how culture sees it. I don't see your MM as any more of a villain than you, in this saga.

 

Your past, and that of your MM, is no excuse to treat others poorly. Quite the opposite. You know what it's like to have been taken advantage of and yet you both took advantage of those to whom you owed truth, and protection. You played out, and onto them, what had been done to you.

 

Many of us, especially those abused at very young ages, learn to rigidly compartmentalize in order to survive our abuse. That can involve emotions, vulnerabilities, thoughts and sexual involvement. Those to whom we feel safest in revealing the most of who we are, without receiving judgement, tend to be the people that we bond strongest with. I think that is what has happened with you, and MM. That doesn't mean that you are currently good for one another. When others have posted that weak attracts weak, I know that to be true and I think that's what has happened with you.

 

You bonded to your H, who I read from your posts, as being emotionally unavailable, because he "saved" you from an abusive environment and then immersed you in another kind of abuse. Calling you the names he called you, and attempting to control your personal endeavors, were/are forms of abuse. Whether this was done to make him feel better about himself, or control you, doesn't matter. What matters is that I don't read anything that leads me to think that you have healed from being abused in your youth, or in your marriage.

 

I think it far too early for you and your MM to consider joint counseling. I think both of you need to work through your weaknesses before you would be good for anyone not as "damaged" as you each are. For now, if you two join together, you will form an even weaker union than you are apart from each other.

 

You are right to ask MM to back off, and he would be wise to do so.

[AlwaysGrowing]

RL:

 

I will share with you a bit about me. I had CSA, Physical and Emotional Abuse as a child, in my teens I met a guy who I thought could save me from all that, and to a point he did. It was a way for me to leave my FOO. The relationship was slightly less dysfunctional than my family. Married at 18, divorced by 20.

 

I remember looking around me one day and thought "this whole place is f'ed up for me". So I bought 2 plane tickets, and moved myself and my young daughter half way across the country. I NEEDED a clean slate. I NEEDED to find out WHO I really was...not the person who others treated me as.

 

I would go to the library (before interwebs) and found books on parenting, abuse, relationships, heck even how to cook, sew...do crafts. As I was sorely lacking in all those areas. I would watch Phil Donahue whenever he had topics regarding abuse/relationships/parenting.

 

I slowly became who I believe I was meant to be. I did it on my own. My choices, my way, my direction, my goals. My identity became my own. It was no longer tied to the abuse or another.

 

I see how your identity is tied to other people. First your STBXH, you accepted his way of being in a relationship. Then you transferred it to OMM. Your identity was what he wanted, you sacrificed a "sister" type friendship.

 

Every woman on these boards regardless of position will tell you, girlfriends like that are rare, and such a beautiful blessing in life, they last a life time and only grow deeper. Boyfriends, husbands may have come and gone, children raised, moves across country, jobs lost, deaths, joys...and my sister friends are still by my side...a constant. No airs, no fakeness, we wear no hats other than who WE are...its so wonderful being in their company.

 

The OMM asked you to sacrifice that...and you did. One day, you will look at this with such deep sorrow. As someone, like yourself, who does not have natural family to rely on....my sister friends are my family.

 

You were dealt a sh*tty hand in life. Time for you to reshuffle that deck.

[RAN65]

 

I feel like right now he will continue to avoid the kids because its his only want to hurt me right now, and I deserve that but they don't.

 

It is because of two selfish adults the kids are going to suffer. In what ways ?

 

1) The kids of your H(from his previous marriage) saw a mother in you for X number of years(i am not going to revisit all of your other threads for this) & they tried to adapt, now they are going to see another step mother, who has kids or not who knows. How would their lives be imagine !!!

 

2) Your kid is going to see somebody whom your going to live as a Step father & what if your are going to have kids the preference would be to the Bio kid of the step father, not for yours unless you are not selfish in that aspect.

 

Also your kid would be shuttled around between you & your (stbxh) H's house for visitations & staying. If your husband marries or has a GF, how would your kid adapt to such circumstances.

 

Well for two selfish adults who did not know how to live in a married life the kids are to suffer.

 

I hope in future both of you( you & your H) would be mature enough to live with partners to grow old with at least for the sake of the kids both of you had & are going to have.

 

All the best.

Edited October 21, 2013 by RAN65

[The Way I Am]

1) The kids of your H(from his previous marriage) saw a mother in you for X number of years(i am not going to revisit all of your other threads for this) & they tried to adapt, now they are going to see another step mother, who has kids or not who knows. How would their lives be imagine !!!

 

Rae has said the kids that are not her own are her H's younger siblings, not his kids.

 

I hope in future both of you( you & your H) would be mature enough to live with partners to grow old with at least for the sake of the kids both of you had & are going to have.

 

Sometimes the best thing for the kids is not to stay with your spouse. Such as if the parents do not have a healthy relationship, like in this case. It's better for one parent to get out and get emotionally healthy so the kids have at least a good role model from one side.

[rae_lana]

It is because of two selfish adults the kids are going to suffer. In what ways ?

 

1) The kids of your H(from his previous marriage) saw a mother in you for X number of years(i am not going to revisit all of your other threads for this) & they tried to adapt, now they are going to see another step mother, who has kids or not who knows. How would their lives be imagine !!!

 

2) Your kid is going to see somebody whom your going to live as a Step father & what if your are going to have kids the preference would be to the Bio kid of the step father, not for yours unless you are not selfish in that aspect.

 

Also your kid would be shuttled around between you & your (stbxh) H's house for visitations & staying. If your husband marries or has a GF, how would your kid adapt to such circumstances.

 

Well for two selfish adults who did not know how to live in a married life the kids are to suffer.

 

I hope in future both of you( you & your H) would be mature enough to live with partners to grow old with at least for the sake of the kids both of you had & are going to have.

 

All the best.

 

My kids are doing amazingly well so far. And my husband didn't have kids from a previous marriage, his younger brother and sister moved in with us because of issues in the family, years ago.. They are teenagers and when this happened they chose to stay here with me.. His family has not tried to convince them otherwise.. I think they all know I'm a good mom, at least I have that.

 

My kids heard my husband call me a lot of names over the years and we have since had a big talk about honesty (my younger children don't know what happened yet but know that daddy now says I'm a liar) so they know I was dishonest and was hurt because of it and that if they tell the truth, it might hurt, but not for as long as if they lie.. That's what I told them anyway.. And I also made sure they knew that name calling wasn't ok and people need to be kind and show they love each other, not just say it.

 

My teenage boy hasn't had much opinion on this (he's always liked OM better than his brother) :/

 

My teenage girl has cried a lot, she wishes she had known and does feel lied to and wishes I had just left before this all happened.. Neither one of them has tried to say I should be with their brother. They know that wasn't working maybe.. it wasn't all bad with us. He could be great at times, just our bad times got pretty bad, and he always put work before all of us... I'm realizing now though that was the only way he knew how to show his love, by providing a good life.. I wish he would have given us more of his time instead but what's done is done.

[LilGirlandOW]

Rae,

 

Sounds like you have grown so much as a person since everything happened. I'm proud of ya girl . Keep moving forward, and being the great mom that you are

[RAN65]

My kids are doing amazingly well so far. And my husband didn't have kids from a previous marriage, his younger brother and sister moved in with us because of issues in the family, years ago.. They are teenagers and when this happened they chose to stay here with me.. His family has not tried to convince them otherwise.. I think they all know I'm a good mom, at least I have that.

 

 

I wish he would have given us more of his time instead but what's done is done.

 

I am sorry I misunderstood the kids issue.

 

Any way as you said done is done, in future select a " GOOD PARTNER "(I hope you understand where I am coming to) so as you can grow old with him.

 

All the best.