My guy friends need to back off

[SincereOnlineGuy]

...what???

 

 

 

Here, let me rephrase:

 

 

The probability of Phoe pairing-off with somebody and making at least the early stages of a happy life together far exceed those of the random, unknown/unspecified participant at Loveshack (doing same), and everybody except her probably knows it.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

In short, can a man be platonic friends with a woman? Yes.

 

 

 

This issue has never been about "can" a man be platonic friends with a woman.

 

The answer to that remains just as emphatically "yes" as is the question of whether a man "can" register and create an account on Pinterest. (the, uh, "fastest growing website ever", FYI)

 

It remains fully accurate that most straight men have zero interest in creating and maintaining mere friendships with women who those straight men wouldn't rather be banging. (the main exceptions come in the area of coworkers, neighbors, and family friends... and of course a few scattered people on the train in the morning ) (and how could I forget your internet pals?? )

Edited October 21, 2013 by SincereOnlineGuy

[Sanman]

This issue has never been about "can" a man be platonic friends with a woman.

 

The answer to that remains just as emphatically "yes" as is the question of whether a man "can" register and create an account on Pinterest. (the, uh, "fastest growing website ever", FYI)

 

It remains fully accurate that most straight men have zero interest in creating and maintaining mere friendships with women who those straight men wouldn't rather be banging. (the main exceptions come in the area of coworkers, neighbors, and family friends... and of course a few scattered people on the train in the morning ) (and how could I forget your internet pals?? )

 

I can agree that many (most? not sure) men might choose not to seek out many female friendships due to lack of common interest. However, there have always been women in my larger social group that I consider friends. Now that I am almost engaged, I really do not discriminate. Another category where I collected friends are the SO of my friends. It depends on how far you want to take the situation. I have even been friends with women I dated from OLD and realized there was no chemistry. The issue is that you need a woman whose personality you like, but that you are not attracted to for some reason. If they are cool, attractive, and single and you are too, why wouldn't you want to date them? It really depends on your situation and life stage.

 

 

EDIT: I should mention as I got older, I also friended more women that were cool, but not relationship material. However, I love impulsive, slightly nutty people. I just don't want to marry one as I have dated many and it always ends badly. However, I will hang with them for a fun night.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Sanman

[Trimmer]

Here, let me rephrase:

The probability of Phoe pairing-off with somebody and making at least the early stages of a happy life together far exceed those of the random, unknown/unspecified participant at Loveshack (doing same), and everybody except her probably knows it.

I'm not sure that really helped a lot. Maybe wait until that oral surgery anaesthesia wears off and try again...

[Carenth]

Guys can't have platonic female friendships? Pffft what a load of hogwash. I have quite a few platonic female friends, I like them for their personalities and common interests. However I'm not interested in them romantically/sexually, they are my friends and nothing more.

 

Sometimes reading these forums I wonder if I'm the only guy that doesn't have the innate urge to have sex with every female in sight....

[joystickd]

Guys can't have platonic female friendships? Pffft what a load of hogwash. I have quite a few platonic female friends, I like them for their personalities and common interests. However I'm not interested in them romantically/sexually, they are my friends and nothing more.

 

Sometimes reading these forums I wonder if I'm the only guy that doesn't have the innate urge to have sex with every female in sight....

No one is saying that. The thing is a person should be aware enough to know a person is hanging around for some ulterior motive. A lot of women delude themselves into thinking because they want friendship the man wants it too. The same thing happens to men too. If you have to remind someone that it's only friendship then they were never your friend to begin with. That person just settled for friendship

[SincereOnlineGuy]

That person just settled for friendship

 

 

 

Yeah, there's the catch-phrase!

 

 

These people talking as if they just got paroled, and wondering whether they "can" stay out of trouble, and stay out of the slammer, aren't even aware of the question, let alone the reality.

[Simon Phoenix]

You are mostly all crazy, lol. Guys can be friends with chicks just fine. I am friends with tons of hot girls, and yes, while I would screw some of them, we are straight up FRIENDS. As in, call that biatch to hang out, pick up a 30 pack and get super ****ty and joke around like I do with my guy friends. You can't honestly want to bang EVERY single chick in your crew do ya? I have friend zoned plenty of hot girls for a variety of reasons. One of my best friends all through college was a chick (yes we hooked up when we first met but we didn't after that and became good pals), and I'm a dude and I was turning her down.

 

Maybe for a lot of the older people on here they think guys and girls can't be friends but they are super wrong. There are tooooons of hot girls out there, you don't need to bang every single one. Why can't a chick be just a fun to hang out with as the guys? You do the exact same **** when you hang out anyway, can you not really see pass one pair of bazongas when you are constantly surrounded by them anyway?

 

And just because you find someone attractive does not mean you cannot be friends. I have a few chick friends that were are obviously attracted to each other, and we both know, but just laugh it off. And then there are girls I met through hooking up with other girls, ones that hooked up with my friends, and girls that are just super down to earth that I chill with all the time and am not trying to get in their pants.

 

It has nothing to do with being shallow, as I can be very guilty of that, but girls are people too. Is the thought of sex so overpowering that you can't hang out and have fun with the girl? Get over yourselves, there are so many attractive girls out there, you don't need to bang all your female friends, just have sex with another girl you meet instead. How can you NOT have any chick friends? I'm seriously friends with tons of girls. Isn't that weird that you aren't with any? Is it just a straight up sausage fest every time you go out? If so, that sucks. I think a guy with zero chick friends is just as weird as a guy with all chick friends.

 

As for what Phoe just said: They don't have to find you unattractive or the thought of you appalling to be your friend. What is wrong with thinking a friend is attractive? Still, friendship shouldn't be thrown away because you find the chick hot/not. I have female friends I am attracted to and ones I am not. Just because the thought of having sex with her crossed my mind doesn't mean I'm going to try. I'm sure it's crossed hers too, it is only natural- no reason to act like a little baby over it, and no reason we still can't party together like there is no tomorrow.

 

You do realize that every time you said you'd want to have sex with them you contradicted yourself, right?

[Simon Phoenix]

Ah, the age-old debate. First of all, let's get some things out of the way.

 

1) With people of similar attractiveness on a scale of 1-10, it's easier for women to get laid than it is for men. This isn't up for debate and any woman who tries to debate it is naive or just trolling. I'm sorry Phoe, I'm guessing if you and I walked into a bar and each announced that we were looking to have sex you'd have several guys running up to you either buying you a drink or inviting you back to your place. I'm guessing I'd have much fewer -- in fact, most women would either laugh or be disgusted.

 

2. In this scenario, the women typically ignore the undesirables and say they don't count. The men count the undesirables. Every time a woman says that she can't get male attention, it always comes with a qualifier "yeah, he doesn't count, he's fat" "he's old, that doesn't count", yada, yada, yada. Guys count the fats, the olds, the skanks. Why? Because we take any interest we can get. Women are so used to getting interest from all men they ignore a lot of it.

 

3. Most female friends that a male makes post-puberty are people that the male a) were attracted to physically right off the bat or b) are someone they could see being attracted to. It's just the way it is.

 

Now, it's very possible that over time that said females become actual friends and stop becoming objects of desire, even in the subconscious. I have several female friends from over the years that I have no desire to sleep with. However, I probably would have slept with them early on in the friendship if the situation arose. The attractive women friends who I can totally say I had platonic feelings about from the jump are the girlfriends/wives of my friends. I view those women like I view sisters or female cousins, therefore, I can dish with them and not worry about things ever getting weird.

 

For the OP, I would lay down the law with these guy "friends" and stop hanging out with them completely if they don't comply. AND DO NOT FLIRT WITH THEM IN ANY WAY. One of the biggest things that screw up a male/female friendship is flirting. Once you start getting touchy feely or you start flirting verbally "you look really hot in that shirt" or cuddly, you aren't friends. You are basically pseudo-dating at that point. Every time you hug up on a guy or you touch his leg/shoulder/chest/wherever, he's thinking about making a move on you. So don't do that. You don't see guy friends brushing up against each other, so don't brush up against your guy friend.

 

The most I ever touch my female friends are hello and goodbye hugs. Nothing more. If you don't want guys to get confused, don't confuse them. And if they initiate the flirting and you aren't into it, don't play along.

[Simon Phoenix]

Aaaah..this is an eye-opening topic for me, albeit a little disheartening.

 

I get along better with males than females. I guess i'm going to have to work to establish female friends!? *reflects* Now that I think about it, there have been three male friends I can say for sure weren't interested in me.

 

Also, I prefer to date males who are friends.. I get to know them for an extended period of time and establish a form of trust. Is that a bad way to go about meeting mates? I just noticed my pattern.

 

You mean to tell me the guy who I buy food from every so often, that makes chit chat and eventually asked for my face book wants to kick it to me? Oh my naive world is crumbling down. I don't want to believe I can't have male friends with no strings attached.. that would make me lose trust with guys in general I think. Eeeeh, my ex had no female friends and I always thought it was odd but he seemed fine with it. >_<

 

Don't want to hi-jack this thread just needed to exclaim my shock.

 

To answer the original question, I would make a clean cut from them if they don't listen to what you're asking and expressing the first time.

 

I'm guessing you never had brothers, because this is the most ridiculously naive thing I've ever read. It boggles my mind when women say things like this.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Ah, the age-old debate. First of all, let's get some things out of the way.

 

1) With people of similar attractiveness on a scale of 1-10, it's easier for women to get laid than it is for men. This isn't up for debate and any woman who tries to debate it is naive or just trolling. I'm sorry Phoe, I'm guessing if you and I walked into a bar and each announced that we were looking to have sex you'd have several guys running up to you either buying you a drink or inviting you back to your place. I'm guessing I'd have much fewer -- in fact, most women would either laugh or be disgusted.

 

2. In this scenario, the women typically ignore the undesirables and say they don't count. The men count the undesirables. Every time a woman says that she can't get male attention, it always comes with a qualifier "yeah, he doesn't count, he's fat" "he's old, that doesn't count", yada, yada, yada. Guys count the fats, the olds, the skanks. Why? Because we take any interest we can get. Women are so used to getting interest from all men they ignore a lot of it.

 

3. Most female friends that a male makes post-puberty are people that the male a) were attracted to physically right off the bat or b) are someone they could see being attracted to. It's just the way it is.

 

Now, it's very possible that over time that said females become actual friends and stop becoming objects of desire, even in the subconscious. I have several female friends from over the years that I have no desire to sleep with. However, I probably would have slept with them early on in the friendship if the situation arose. The attractive women friends who I can totally say I had platonic feelings about from the jump are the girlfriends/wives of my friends. I view those women like I view sisters or female cousins, therefore, I can dish with them and not worry about things ever getting weird.

 

For the OP, I would lay down the law with these guy "friends" and stop hanging out with them completely if they don't comply. AND DO NOT FLIRT WITH THEM IN ANY WAY. One of the biggest things that screw up a male/female friendship is flirting. Once you start getting touchy feely or you start flirting verbally "you look really hot in that shirt" or cuddly, you aren't friends. You are basically pseudo-dating at that point. Every time you hug up on a guy or you touch his leg/shoulder/chest/wherever, he's thinking about making a move on you. So don't do that. You don't see guy friends brushing up against each other, so don't brush up against your guy friend.

 

The most I ever touch my female friends are hello and goodbye hugs. Nothing more. If you don't want guys to get confused, don't confuse them. And if they initiate the flirting and you aren't into it, don't play along.

 

 

 

Very well covered... and nothing says that guys who commit to one woman "can't" buck many of these trends/rules and evolve appropriately to where they cease to ever consider it realistic that they might act on any of these impulses.

 

Just like nothing says that men "can't" race to join the fastest growing website ever. (They just have no interest... )

 

 

 

 

PS - I'm not 'sorry' that Phoe would get all of that traffic at a bar!!! (hope she doesn't go for the ones who would "invite her back to (her) place" )

[Sanman]

Re-reading this thread, I really am not sure what the fight is over. To me, the women I meet fall into one of the following categories:

 

1. Good personality, physically attractive - romantic interest

 

2. Good personality, physically unattractive - friend

 

3. Bad personality, physically attractive - one night stand/ hook up material

 

4. Bad personality, physically unattractive - no reason to have you in my life

 

5. Off-limits (female relatives, women in relationships, etc) - friends

 

So, what are the women arguing? That you can be in category 1 and still be just friends?

[Phoe]

Ah, the age-old debate. First of all, let's get some things out of the way.

 

1) With people of similar attractiveness on a scale of 1-10, it's easier for women to get laid than it is for men. This isn't up for debate and any woman who tries to debate it is naive or just trolling. I'm sorry Phoe, I'm guessing if you and I walked into a bar and each announced that we were looking to have sex you'd have several guys running up to you either buying you a drink or inviting you back to your place. I'm guessing I'd have much fewer -- in fact, most women would either laugh or be disgusted.

 

2. In this scenario, the women typically ignore the undesirables and say they don't count. The men count the undesirables. Every time a woman says that she can't get male attention, it always comes with a qualifier "yeah, he doesn't count, he's fat" "he's old, that doesn't count", yada, yada, yada. Guys count the fats, the olds, the skanks. Why? Because we take any interest we can get. Women are so used to getting interest from all men they ignore a lot of it.

 

3. Most female friends that a male makes post-puberty are people that the male a) were attracted to physically right off the bat or b) are someone they could see being attracted to. It's just the way it is.

 

Now, it's very possible that over time that said females become actual friends and stop becoming objects of desire, even in the subconscious. I have several female friends from over the years that I have no desire to sleep with. However, I probably would have slept with them early on in the friendship if the situation arose. The attractive women friends who I can totally say I had platonic feelings about from the jump are the girlfriends/wives of my friends. I view those women like I view sisters or female cousins, therefore, I can dish with them and not worry about things ever getting weird.

 

Ok, I am not inherently disagreeing with any of the above, because it all makes perfect sense, is logical, and commonly IS the way things actually are.

 

 

It doesn't mean it's ALWAYS the way things are.

 

 

1.) If I walk into a bar and announce that I'm looking to have sex, no man is gonna take me seriously. Not in the slightest. Men aren't going to come running cause they're not gonna actually believe that I'm serious about that. Take it down a notch and change the scenario to me being in a bar actively pursuing guys... maybe I have good chances, but I won't ALWAYS have good chances.. In the past 2 weeks I have pursued 4 men and was shot down by all 4 men. It happens.

 

 

2.) I don't look at people as "desirables" or "undesirables". Any person who is genuinely pursuing me is an option, and counts. Now I DO believe that the homeless drug addict by the gas station catcalling me doesn't count as a "pursuit" because he's not trying to date me. He's just shouting at me. Nonsensically. With this example I'm simply trying to show the difference between "attention" and a genuine pursuit/approach. My biggest problem in dating is the fact that men never actually pursue me. Sure, I might get the occasional random holler from god knows who in a parking lot. I do NOT get approached and asked on a date/asked for my number. I have only ever rejected 2 men who asked me out. One because he asked me out in a disgusting way, the other because I was already seeing someone. EVERYONE who has asked me out counts in my mind. I would never look at someone as "beneath me" to the point where they don't even count and aren't even relevant. That is completely psychotic.

 

 

3.) Not in all cases. Yes I admit it's probably EXTREMELY common. But it's not always the case. My male friends have openly told me they do not find me attractive, and one of them even likes to joke how his penis would probably shrivel up and die if it came near me. With my group of friends, I'm just one of the guys, just slightly smaller and with no penis.

 

 

 

 

So... as far as debates go, again, I am not disagreeing with your statements, just adding reasons for why it's not so black and white. There are MANY MANY people in this world and we are all very very different.

 

 

There is never a "one size fits all" when it comes to friendships, dating, attraction, etc.

[Simon Phoenix]

Ok, I am not inherently disagreeing with any of the above, because it all makes perfect sense, is logical, and commonly IS the way things actually are.

 

 

It doesn't mean it's ALWAYS the way things are.

 

 

1.) If I walk into a bar and announce that I'm looking to have sex, no man is gonna take me seriously. Not in the slightest. Men aren't going to come running cause they're not gonna actually believe that I'm serious about that. Take it down a notch and change the scenario to me being in a bar actively pursuing guys... maybe I have good chances, but I won't ALWAYS have good chances.. In the past 2 weeks I have pursued 4 men and was shot down by all 4 men. It happens.

 

 

2.) I don't look at people as "desirables" or "undesirables". Any person who is genuinely pursuing me is an option, and counts. Now I DO believe that the homeless drug addict by the gas station catcalling me doesn't count as a "pursuit" because he's not trying to date me. He's just shouting at me. Nonsensically. With this example I'm simply trying to show the difference between "attention" and a genuine pursuit/approach. My biggest problem in dating is the fact that men never actually pursue me. Sure, I might get the occasional random holler from god knows who in a parking lot. I do NOT get approached and asked on a date/asked for my number. I have only ever rejected 2 men who asked me out. One because he asked me out in a disgusting way, the other because I was already seeing someone. EVERYONE who has asked me out counts in my mind. I would never look at someone as "beneath me" to the point where they don't even count and aren't even relevant. That is completely psychotic.

 

 

3.) Not in all cases. Yes I admit it's probably EXTREMELY common. But it's not always the case. My male friends have openly told me they do not find me attractive, and one of them even likes to joke how his penis would probably shrivel up and die if it came near me. With my group of friends, I'm just one of the guys, just slightly smaller and with no penis.

 

 

 

 

So... as far as debates go, again, I am not disagreeing with your statements, just adding reasons for why it's not so black and white. There are MANY MANY people in this world and we are all very very different.

 

 

There is never a "one size fits all" when it comes to friendships, dating, attraction, etc.

 

Your No. 1 is completely wrong. Sure, guys might laugh, but plenty would be more than willing to take you up on that offer. You basically made my point with your catcalling example in your No. 2 and I'm skeptical on your No. 3 (not that he said it, but that when push came to shove, that he means it).

[Phoe]

Your No. 1 is completely wrong. Sure, guys might laugh, but plenty would be more than willing to take you up on that offer. You basically made my point with your catcalling example in your No. 2 and I'm skeptical on your No. 3 (not that he said it, but that when push came to shove, that he means it).

 

How did I make your point?

[Simon Phoenix]

How did I make your point?

 

You said that a man who was interested in having sex with you didn't count for whatever reason, which is exactly what I said women tend to do. So in trying to argue against what I said as it applies to you, you basically confirmed it

[Phoe]

You said that a man who was interested in having sex with you didn't count for whatever reason, which is exactly what I said women tend to do. So in trying to argue against what I said as it applies to you, you basically confirmed it

 

Who said he was trying to have sex with me? For all I know he wanted spare change.

 

 

By thinking I made your point, you made it clear that you MISSED my point...

 

 

all I'm trying to do is clarify the difference between "random attention" and actual pursuits.

 

 

You said that women don't count the undesirables. Well, I don't look at men who pursue me as desirable or not desirable. If a man pursues me, asks me out, then it counts.

 

 

If I'm in a parking lot and a guy hollers out of a passing car at me, how does that count? How is that pursuing me? He's not trying to date me, get my number, or even have sex with me. He's just shouting at me.

 

 

If I want to count every guy that "paid attention" to me, then fine. But that's completely asinine. The dude at the halloween store paid attention to me today. He complimented my shirt. Does that "count" as a pursuit? No.

 

 

Any man who pursues me, counts, and is an option. Men who shout at me from passing cars are not options. I could not make them an option if I tried. Am I supposed to chase the vehicle down??

[Simon Phoenix]

When it comes to sexual interest, yes, it all counts. And you are counting what you choose to count. The more you protest, the more you are confirming what I said.

[man_in_the_box]

My girlfriend has a couple of straight, platonic male friends. Never had to worry that they would try anything. It is possible - although I admit that I don't know how rare the odds are exactly. To say that every last man behaves this way is not true.

 

I have not had any female friends for a long while - I rarely have a real click with women. But if it does happen than the friendship is genuine.

[Phoe]

When it comes to sexual interest, yes, it all counts. And you are counting what you choose to count. The more you protest, the more you are confirming what I said.

 

HOW are men that aren't even trying to have sex with me, sexual interests??

[Simon Phoenix]

HOW are men that aren't even trying to have sex with me, sexual interests??

 

Do you really think guys immediately run over and try to mount every women they want to have sex with? If a guy hollers at you, he's indicating sexual interest. That doesn't mean he's going to run after you and chase you down the street, but if you had come back and engaged him, he would have flirted with you and seen where it would have gone.

 

This isn't rocket science.

[Phoe]

Do you really think guys immediately run over and try to mount every women they want to have sex with? If a guy hollers at you, he's indicating sexual interest. That doesn't mean he's going to run after you and chase you down the street, but if you had come back and engaged him, he would have flirted with you and seen where it would have gone.

 

This isn't rocket science.

 

*sigh*

 

 

once again, you missed a good chunk of what I said.

 

 

Men in passing vehicles hollering at me. HOW do I engage these men? How is he attempting to pursue me when he's in a vehicle on the street, passing by at 30 mph? It's not like I'm "rejecting" this man by not going to him and engaging him, there's literally NOTHING I can do short of chasing after the vehicle waving my arms for the driver to stop.

 

 

What on earth am I supposed to do? How is this guy trying to pursue me?

[Phoe]

More towards the original topic..

 

Why would a guy be friends with an attractive girl that he's interested in, and then never pursue her? He's single, she's single, they've been friends for years. He's never indicated any sexual or romantic interest towards her.

 

 

What would be the point of this? Why else would a guy do this other than the fact that he legitimately just enjoys her friendship but is not interested? I see no other reason...

[hotpotato]

I agree.

 

I've had plenty of platonic female friends throughout my life. Unfortunately, what's happened to me in the past is that these friends either asked me out, got mad at me for not asking them out (even though I always thought we were friends), or started interfering in my love life significantly in a bad way.

 

Occasionally, I remained friends with girls that turned down my romantic overtures (genuine friends....as in I no longer had interest in dating them and wanted only friendship). These girls would also inevitably change their mind about their feelings for me, of course at their convenience, which led to us not being or being friends anymore.

 

I have had some female friends that were genuinely friends, but most of them pulled the things that I described above.

 

So it works both ways, ladies.

 

So they settled for being friends when really they wanted to date.

 

Which goes back to the point that I and others are trying to make.

 

Most of the time men and women can't be just platonic.

 

The genders got switched around, but the scenario and point are still the same.

[emva07]

*sigh*

 

 

once again, you missed a good chunk of what I said.

 

 

Men in passing vehicles hollering at me. HOW do I engage these men? How is he attempting to pursue me when he's in a vehicle on the street, passing by at 30 mph? It's not like I'm "rejecting" this man by not going to him and engaging him, there's literally NOTHING I can do short of chasing after the vehicle waving my arms for the driver to stop.

 

 

What on earth am I supposed to do? How is this guy trying to pursue me?

 

Haha, my sister and I had this same conversation yesterday, guys cat calling, whistling, honking at like 50 m/h while we went to the store.....right, because that will make me run after your car, saying "wait! wait!"