Advice on managing anger?

[Thinkalot]

Hello all.

 

As some of you know, I am overcoming obsessive thinking. I have been on meds, and had therapy.

 

It has however placed enormous strain on my relationship with my fiance. He has had to put up with a lot of constant questioning from me, over the same topics (which I have felt compelled to ask over and over, due to the same obsessive thoughts going around).

 

As a result he has turned from a person who never had an anger problem, to one who snaps very quickly. Over time his tolerance levels have worn down.

 

We are trying to get more peace and calm in our relationship, which has always been fairly volatile. Together we have sought counselling for communication issues in the past.

 

I feel that for us to both heal now and move forward, my fiance perhaps needs to address his issues with anger himself. I know it has arisen from MY issues, but still, it is now an issue itself I think.

 

He snaps quickly over things. I am perhaps out of line some of those times, but the degree of his response is often severe. He swears at me, and calls me names, like sh*thead etc. His anger takes over.

 

He says he hates being that way too.

 

Any advice? Any books to read...or websites..suggestions?

[kellydontwanttasleep]

try this link i read his book every day. http://www.larstetens.com/books/Lars_Tetens_Books.htm

[Moose]

First off, if you think handing your fiance' a book or a web adress is going to help matters, you're sadly mistaking. That is unless he asked you to find something for him. And then it's cool......but be careful.

 

I've had to deal with a lot of anger in my life. I found the best thing that's helped me is physical exercise. Anything like that, a club, yard work, anything that gets your heart rate up and works your muscles. Also, I finally came to grips and learned how to keep a cool head and not let things bother me so much. But mines a different story.

[kellydontwanttasleep]

the books are alot deeper then anger managment. it's a life changing expierence.

[Thinkalot]

Thanks for the advice. He has expressed a desire to try and lessen his anger, and has said he is open to talking about it.

 

Usually he is keen to read things, if I find a useful resource.

[moimeme]

I agree that only he can initiate the changes. If he's asked you to find help, that's a different story.

 

Anger is like the mercury in a thermometer. You can raise it to a certain point and it's very hard to get back down unless there are many days strung together of NO incidents whatsoever. IMHO, unless you've been able to back away from just-under-boiling point, no anger management techniques will help.

 

I have before suggested and will do so again that you spend a few weeks apart. One of you live someplace else or go on a trip. That will let the level of general anger drop. Think of it as a period of convalescence.

 

Other than that, if you Google Anger Management, you'll find a zillion resources. Most of them say more or less the same thing.

 

I communicated with spouses of people who had disorders for quite some time. Anger in the non-disordered partner is extremely common. People who tried separations were able to cope better after the separations. One couple separated for six months. While I wouldn't recommend that, I still think that the key is to be apart for a while. Not long. Just a couple weeks.

[johan]

I agree there's probably great information in the books. Maybe there are some techniques in them that will help. At least with some commitment they will. One thing I wonder about is why is it always you who is posting here trying to figure stuff out? Is he doing anything on his own about this?

 

To me, the anger is just a symptom of something more serious. There are some things that need to be communicated that aren't.

 

I think that there is a lack of real respect. The name-calling and quick temper indicate that to me. You're both responsible for that. It may take drastic measures to get that respect back.

 

And I think (speaking from experience) that that kind of anger is a response to a threat. Not sure what the threat is. But that response only makes sense when you feel out of control or dominated or afraid somehow. If he didn't feel threatened, then he wouldn't take it so seriously. It seems like (again speaking from experience) he is really just trying to seize control. It should be clear by now that the anger doesn't really do it. You'll have to figure out why you're so scary to him.

 

He obviously loves you, so if you can stop freaking him out pretty soon, you should be ready for your big day in April. You guys have too much on the line to go forward like this. You don't want a future full of anger and disrespect.

[moimeme]

And I think (speaking from experience) that that kind of anger is a response to a threat. Not sure what the threat is. But that response only makes sense when you feel out of control or dominated or afraid somehow. If he didn't feel threatened, then he wouldn't take it so seriously.

 

I agree. I have a theory about this based on my observation of people in such situations falling into anger habits.. I won't bore you with the whole thing, but basically people who do things to upset you are understood by the bit of your brain that is in charge of protecting you to be a threat. So her constant questioning of him despite his repeated pleas to stop have caused his brain to interpret her actions as threatening to him - and to respond in ways to make the threat go away. The connection can be disengaged but it's hard to do and takes some cool-down time.

[Thinkalot]

Hello Johan and Merry.

 

Firstly, both my fiance and I are worried what will happen in the future if we don't get a handle on things. By things I mean, our ability to communicate calmly, my questioning, and inability to stop in an argument, his anger...and on both sides, what one friend/counsellor has described as a desire by both of us to be the 'top dog'.

 

We are trying to work as a team more, and remind ourselves to be friends. Sounds silly, but you'd be amazed how important that it, and how easily it can be lost.

 

We love each other very much. I will admit here though, that we have both had our doubts recently about whether we are doing the right thing walking into a marriage together.

 

He says when I nag him and won't stop, he has fears about our future. As for me, when he snaps over the tiniest thing, or calls me something entirely disrespectful (ie sh*thead, f*cking bitch and so on), I despair, feel sick, and wonder how I can go on when he can call me those things.

 

Then we calm down, and know we want to be together, that we love the thought of a future together/a family together, that what we have is wonderful much of the time, and the deepest love either of us has known...and we go back to the drawing board, looking for solutions.

 

The frustration and sadness we both feel when the solutions we come up with dont work AGAIN is high.

 

Merry- I am terrified if we have time apart I will lose him. HOw desperate does that sound? I am worried he will find it so peaceful and relaxing he wont want to come back. I am worried therefore, he does not love me enough. This could be a symptom of my own insecurities, I am aware of that. But, in the past, he was always been the one ready to walk. And that has not exactly strengthened my feelings of security, in spite of the fact he always tells me he loves me etc.

 

Johan- why is it me always looking for solutions? Partly, because I have more free time during the day, whereas he is so snowed under in work, he doesn't have a chance to reflect on the relationship stuff. Also, in the past, because he felt if I solved MY issues, his would evaporate. The emphasis has largely been on me doing much of the work, because I am the one who obsesses! Except in terms of communication issues...we have both read books on that, and been to counselling together.

[moimeme]

Merry- I am terrified if we have time apart I will lose him. HOw desperate does that sound? I am worried he will find it so peaceful and relaxing he wont want to come back. I am worried therefore, he does not love me enough.

 

Think of it like this: if you're right, then you might as well find out now before the wedding because thinking once he's 'trapped' in marriage vows he won't leave is a mistake.

 

Remember the saying - it's well-worn but it's true nonetheless - if you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours.

[Thinkalot]

P.S. seeing my psychologist again on Friday. My fiance is happy to come along with me, to talk about things we can both do. I mentioned to him that sometimes couples go together. He immediately offered to come in on his lunch break.

 

I was going to talk about ways to manage my thoughts/questions, and also address a few area's of concern specific to me (things which I repeatedly get stuck on- i figure there must be a deeper reason why).

I am now thinking it might really help though, if we went together for some advice.

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by moimeme

if you love something, set it free. If it comes back, it's yours.

 

Your are right (as usual )

 

Am very nervous about the idea nevertheless.

Will have a think about how we can make a break possible, considering we have limited annual leave at the moment (if we use it up, we won't have enough left for 3 weeks in fiji for wedding and honeymoon), and have been saving so hard for other things.

 

I suppose this should be seen as a priority though. Even a week's space might help.

 

I am reluctant to stay out at mum's though, because as you know, as much as I love her, she can sometimes cause more stress for me.

 

He has been offered some potential fill-in work for his company, at an office in a town about 3 hours away, in January. Perhaps that could be just the ticket.

[moimeme]

I was going to talk about ways to manage my thoughts/questions, and also address a few area's of concern specific to me (things which I repeatedly get stuck on- i figure there must be a deeper reason why).

 

Could well be a lot of insecurity under all this.

[meanon]

But that response only makes sense when you feel out of control or dominated or afraid somehow. If he didn't feel threatened, then he wouldn't take it so seriously. It seems like (again speaking from experience) he is really just trying to seize control.

I agree, it is about perceived threat and a need to regain control. Not necessarily from you, but of the situation or inner turmoil generally (eg. caused by anxiety for the future).

 

Thinkalot, I answered your PM before I read this thread. When people are under stress, they react in different ways. You obsess, he gets angry, others get depressed. The difference is that your reactions are mediated by a chemical imbalance. That's not to say that there isn't a whole lot you can do and have done about it. It's not your fault, yet you take responsibility for your problem, rightly so

 

He does not take responsibility for his reaction to the stress caused by your illness:

he felt if I solved MY issues, his would evaporate. The emphasis has largely been on me doing much of the work, because I am the one who obsesses!

You get the blame. You can't "solve" your issues, though you may get much better at managing them over time, to the extent that they are not a major issue in your life. Your guilt at being the one who creates the stress in the relationship by having this condition leads you to accept the blame. In the same way that your problems are not your fault but are your responsibility to resolve as far as you can, his are too. I think you are beginning to see that but until you really believe it you won't be able to help him.

 

Another perspective that may help him is that you are successfully managing the condition without meds. He played a crucial role in the decision you made to come off meds, taking account of all the effects on you as a couple. Those effects include more obsessive behaviour on your part. You made the decision together, you need to manage the consequences together. The bad as well as the good.

 

There is far too much blame and guilt for what simply is a fact of life for both of you as a couple. You have OCD, you're learning to deal with it. He finds it stressful, he needs to learn to deal with it.

 

There's loads you can do together (through CBT) to work on deflecting and dealing with specific triggers, once he's ready.

[Thinkalot]

Thanks.

 

He's going to come with me tomorrow. Here's hoping.

 

I spoke last night about his need to take responsibility. he agrees, and knows ocd is something we need to learn how to manage.

 

He takes issue, however with our communication style. he feels that is largely to blame for our stress and his anger. Me nagging on issues, or not letting things go in a fight. I pointed out that the OCD causes tension, and it is all related. He still feels that if I can change my communication style more, he'll find it easier.

He said he has little respect for me, and he realises that. Otherwise he would not speak the way he does to me. He said it's not the OCD, but the way I go on in a fight etc. Or the way I react to my mum's issues . Things like that.

It was pretty hurtful to hear him say that.

 

He said so many nasty names and comments last night, today I just feel tired. We talked about solutions, as I said above, so hopefully...

 

How long does it take a relationship to recover from hitting a point like this I wonder? From a place where I am a "f*cking idiot, fing bitch, sh*thead, twit, stupid", from a place where when I ask him to take a breath and calm down if he's going to keep talking, he responds with "f*ck off"...from a place where if I go on in an argument, he threatens me, with "if you go on, I swear, I'll break your f*cking jaw"??? How badly must he feel about me and us to talk like that? How bad do I feel?

He said threatening me is the only way to make me shut up. I guess that's true. I don't want to get hit, and even though I don't think he actually would, the seriousness of such a comment makes me shut up.

 

Today is a new day. Today we told each other we loved each other, and hugged, and promised to try, and he again said he'd come to see my psych with me tomorrow.

 

But those wounds are raw. On both sides. He hurts too.

[meanon]

I'm so sorry, Thinkalot

 

One is the probelms with anger is the way it escalates, the way the boundaries of what is tolerated shift. There is a clear difference between words and action, but then there's also a difference between insults and threats. He has to shut you up, what would he do if you didn't? You need to resolve this before you get married.

 

Please do talk about all this tomorrow. I'll be thinking of you, my friend. You are a beautiful person, Thinkalot, your OCD is part of who you are.

[Thinkalot]

Thank you again. It's nice having a place to talk about this. I wouldn't dare tell my friends and family. I fear they would judge.

[meanon]

I know what you mean. As you know, I've lived with someone with anger problems, two friends knew. No family.

 

The cause makes no difference to his responsibility, but as he sees a distinction between the OCD driven behaviour and the things he finds most difficult, it may be worth asking the psychotherapist for their opinion.

He said it's not the OCD, but the way I go on in a fight etc. Or the way I react to my mum's issues

Many of your earlier posts about the success of therapy/meds were about not verbalising thoughts that would trigger conflict, or disengaging from them during conflict. The not needing to know the answers to obsessive questions when the answers do not satisfy. I also saw a clear link with the way you reacted to your mum's issues here once, when you reduced your med dose. If you know how OCD presents itself, you get a feel for when a worry tips over into the obsessional. On that occasion it was indicated by the frequency of threads and degree of repetition. There is a clear link to the OCD, in my view.

[Thinkalot]

Mmmm. I have been wondering whether or not my going on in an argument, is linked to ocd.

 

My fiance says not to blame everything on the "problem with my brain" as he sometimes puts it. Or to point to it as a possible reason why I dont let things go in a fight (as separate from asking questions over and over about his past).

 

My dad, who has many obsessive symptoms, and always has done, used to go on like that in fights with me. HE then drove ME mad with his questioning, and inability to let things go.

 

My fiance thinks it is more my need to prove a point and 'win', than anything to do with my obsessiveness.

 

He also has commented that I was noticeably better on the meds as far as the questioning goes. In a way, I am glad. It helps me believe that I am not just a crazy psycho...but that chemicals in my head can actually help/hinder actions.

[meanon]

Gaia's husband often stops her mid fight to ask if she's taken her meds that day. It drives her wild

[Thinkalot]

I bet! Fuel to the fire.

[moimeme]

Mmmm. I have been wondering whether or not my going on in an argument, is linked to ocd.

 

Yikes! Of course it is!!!! I'm surprised you're even asking. What is OCD but obsession? And what is continuing to do something when it's causing you and someone else distress (something which is completely illogical to do) except obsession! Absolutely, positively it is - it is the obsession to continue.

 

There was a man who lived someplace near my neighbourhood. Every day he would turn up at a corner near my house. He was always well-dressed and had a briefcase. He would stand on the corner and stare at the red light until it turned. Then he would turn to the new red light and stare at it until it turned.

 

All day.

 

Every day.

 

It was as though it was his job to watch the lights until they turned. He would go home at the time people go home from work.

 

This is obsession, Thinkalot. I'm suddenly worried that you're not really understanding the scope of what obsession is or does!!!! It forces you to do things which can be contrary to your best interest or to that of others. Like not stopping arguments when someone else is begging you to do so.

 

He said threatening me is the only way to make me shut up. I guess that's true. I don't want to get hit, and even though I don't think he actually would, the seriousness of such a comment makes me shut up.

 

It's like I've said before - because the organism is 'threatened', it wants to do ANYTHING to make the threat go away. Eventually he will hit you because he will have run out of options - and possibly because nothing else will make you stop.

[Thinkalot]

 

he says he feels I don't respect him. He says that's largely why he doesn't respect me. He says if I respected him I would not go on like I do. I DO respect him though (except when he's swearing etc).

 

I feel compelled to go on. I go downstairs and after five minutes, I go back up, and ask if he'll speak to me.

 

He thinks I should be bigger than that. That surely I can control such behaviour. I need to employ the methods I have been taught. I dont know if he understands HOW hard it is.

 

Perhaps I have been mistaken in pigeon-holing OCD too much. I should remember it has attached itself to many things in the past.

[johan]

This is an argument we've had before, but I'm going to say it again. He cannot control your behavior, but he can control his. He HAS to take responsibility for what this turns him into. If it means leaving the house or leaving the relationship, he has to stop allowing himself to become a monster.

 

He needs to recognize that his anger has achieved nothing. It's a failing strategy and it's counter-productive. It's time to try something new. I'm disappointed that it's just you searching for solutions and not him.

[moimeme]

Johan, logic works as badly with anger as it does with OCD. Different strategies are necessary.