Advice on managing anger?

[Thinkalot]

Maybe the psych will have some tips for us both. We go tomorrow at lunchtime.

 

I feel sick. In the past, I always thought I was to blame, and so I worked hard. I could also feel some sense of control that way I suppose. Like the ball was in my court...if only I could do xxx we'd be right.

 

Now though, I have finally been pushed to a place where I need to acknowledge I can't justify his behaviour and always blame myself. I don't always deserve the things he says. It's not only up to me to stop going on etc.

 

I guess, I told him as much last night/today. "If you love me, and you want this to work, then you need to commit to us, and to fixing your issues too."

 

Merry, I mentioned the idea of time apart. He has been online, and is reading this thread anyway. I am pleased about that. He does care and want to try.

 

I am who I am, with my weaknesses. We need to work together. He needs to accept/understand what I deal with, and what I try to do. If he can't do that (and I know it must be so HARD, and is a LOT to ask of someone), then I guess we won't work. I used to think I simply had to eradicate the behaviour, and that otherwise I was to blame. Plus he always reminds me that ANY normal person would have trouble living with me. Like he's picked a flawed model, and I end up feeling grateful he's there. I suppose I need to hold on to some self-respect here.

 

The thought we may not work cuts me up inside so badly. I am crying as I type now (am at work too ), just thinking about the idea of us not being together. I love him so much.

[Anais]

This is very sad. I hope the visit tomorrow will be helpful. I don’t know much about OCD but I was wondering if there is something that can stop you nagging? Like when you start again he puts a vacation video, keep saying I love you., suggests you a glass of relaxing drink? Anger can make the stress only worse.

 

You are hurt and feel down today but tomorrow is a better day. Cheer up! My prayers are with you Thinkalot!

[moimeme]

Well what you have going for you is that you've both sworn to do whatever it takes. But, Bunnyboy, that means acknowledging that the anger on your part is wrong. It's understandable, but still wrong and not excusable.

 

Compulsion. It's being driven. Anything from eating fries to gambling to arguing can overtake one. Some folks can beat it with will but some cannot and if it is an actual condition, it's as foolish thinking it can be overcome by dint of will alone as thinking a blind person can will himself to see.

 

But if you don't want to believe that and you prefer to think she does it on purpose, then - well, I don't even have an end to the sentence. You're just mistaken. As I said elsewhere, if you have such a grand theory about being able to control oneself just by dint of will, then you do it. Never be angry again.

 

Let us know how it works.

[Thinkalot]

HI. It's about 10.30pm now. We just logged on to check this site and read the responses together Bunnyboy took on board the comments.

 

We had a long talk after work, about him understanding ocd, and taking responsibility etc. We again said we wanted things to work, very very much, but BOTH feel they wont unless we make changes. We discussed the issue of respect. he said he hasn't lost all respect for me, but does respect me less than he should. He wants to work on that, and gain more understanding. Also, I posted on another thread here that I had discoverd an actual OCD chat forum. It's aptly called "stuck in a doorway". I sent my dear the link. He came home from work telling me how he'd been reading lots of responses, and saying how he could recognise my behaviours. He'd especially read a thread directed to people living with an obsessive person. I was encouraged he'd taken the time. He says this relationship is by far the very best, and the very worst, all rolled into one. He also said he knows he needs to find a way to let some of what I do roll off his back more...or help me stop, using something other than anger, which only makes things worse. I in turn will be trying my very best to control my responses, not question and stop in a fight when asked.

 

Thanks for the suggestions Anais. They are good- a distraction which breaks the cycle of thought often helps!

 

Tomorrow we both hope we may gain some more tips as a couple, as well as me as an individual. We'll prob need more than one visit I guess.

 

I am feeling better and more encouraged and hopeful than I did this afternoon. We discussed the issue of me going back on medication, and have decided to leave things they way they are in that regard...for now.

 

Will let you all know how tomorrow goes.

 

Thank you so very much for being there....AGAIN. This site is like a lifeline sometimes.

[moimeme]

he needs to find a way to let some of what I do roll off his back more...or help me stop, using something other than anger, which only makes things worse

 

It is real difficult to do. The main trick, IMHO and in my experience, is to absent oneself from the situation until the anger fades - which means that you also have to find a way to get yourself to let him do that.

 

And way to go, both of you

[Debster]

I believe that the most important things in a marriage are communication and respect. Based on your posts, these are areas where the two of you are having some problems. It is not one-sided, both of you are treating each other poorly, IMO. Granted, you OCD might be a factor but the point is - this is not a healthy relationship.

 

Is there some medication or therapy you can get for your OCD that you aren't already doing/taking? While your fiance does appear to have anger issues, it appears to be based on your nagging/constant questions. If it is true that you act that way because of your OCD, than unless you can get it under control through either therapy or medication, this relationship is not going to improve. You might be better to find someone who is better able to deal with your nagging/questions without blowing up.

 

I'm sorry, but sometimes love is not enough to keep a relationship going.

[Thinkalot]

Debster. You are right. Love is never enough That is why we are at a point where we know it wont work unless changes are made. I have been on medication which WAS helping, and recently stopped. It was a joint decision, because it had killed my libido and taken away my ability to orgasm (common side effect known as anorgasmia). This in turn was having an effect on us. Or sex life had always been frequent and fantastic.

 

Off the meds, our sex life almost immediately returned to normal. We felt happy and more connected. We are deciding together whether I should go back on them, and last night decided that for now, I won't.

 

Please dont think I am suggsting me nagging and going on is right, ocd or not. It is not right, or easy to live with. But sometimes having an understanding of how compelled I can feel sometimes, and some methods ready, can help a lot. I am hoping this new CBT will help, and maybe provide some strategies I havent tried.

 

We both need to pick up our act. Please wish us luck in turning this back into a HEALTHY relationship.

[Thinkalot]

Well, we've just been to see the psychologist. It was a fellow I saw some years back when I was obsessed with counting calories and eating etc. He is REALLY good. The best of any I have seen. Very direct.

 

my fiance came with me, which was good of him.

 

Basically this fellow gave us some immediate practical strategies, and explained to my partner about ocd, and how anger is counter-productive. He suggested we create just one room in the house for discussing/fighting/questioning. All others are off limits. That is to be a set agreement between us. If either one breaks it, they have to do something unpleasant, like washing up for a week or whatever.

 

He suggested I have my meditation cd's etc out in the bedroom, so if I find it hard to stay away from my fiance in a fight, I actually DO something else to get my mind calmed down.

 

He also said that he sees a link between the various things I have been to him for, from my eating disorder, to anxiety over mum and setting boundaries, and now this obsession with my fiance's past,and need to question.

 

He feels that while I may certainly be predisposed to obsessing, it has not always been present in a big way in my life. It comes and goes and varies in severity. Therefore, there is a deeper reason behind why it is there so strongly now. Linked issues he sees in me are insecurity, low self-esteem. This creates self-doubt and fear, and the need for control....ie to question and know everything, in this case.

 

He also suggested I may actually be depressed, hence my constant anxiety, large mood swings (I tend to go right up, then right down a lot). I said I don't see myself as depressed. He asked then, was I happy? I said I was happy with the idea of what we have, and our future etc...but I realised I often dont feel happy. I am too busy feeling worried/anxious etc. My happiness is also far too dependent on the happiness/opinions of those around me. It needs to come from within more.

He suggested I responded well to the anti-depressants, perhaps because on some level I was simply depressed.

 

In any event, he said he'd like to try and get to the bottom of a few of those issues with me, which in turn should reduce the obsession. He has said it could take a while, and he sometimes uses hypnosis.

He acknowledged I will probably always be someone who is driven with a need for some level of control. I suppose, even when not obsessing I am like that. But it is possible to turn the severity down a lot.

 

Wish me/us luck. He said my fiance may need to come back in down the track, to work together.

 

[moimeme]

Sounds like you got yourself one heckuva psych there, Thinkalot! And it really really illustrates that in some situations, a few lines - or even a bunch of lines! () from strangers are no substitute for seeing a professional in person.

[johan]

Good luck!

[johan]

And it really really illustrates that in some situations, a few lines - or even a bunch of lines! () from strangers are no substitute for seeing a professional in person.

Yeah. But you have to admit, I pretty much had it nailed.

[Thinkalot]

lol . Thanks merry and johan.

 

And yes, seeing someone in person is definately the most rewarding. Bunnyboy said it helped him a lot, both in understanding, and in ways to handle it. He said he'll go back with me whenever needed, and told me not to worry about the cost, but to 'do what it takes'.

 

 

This psych is so direct and upfront, as soon as I sat down he said with a smile "so what are you doing back here?" I then started to fill in the blanks for him (last saw this guy 18mths ago or more).

 

Most comforting was his approach. he said 'you dont want to be in and out of psychologists offices for years, treating one thing, then another. I think we need to find out what is causing all this obsessive thinking. Otherwise we'll solve this, and it will attach to something else. In the end it will always come down to your desire to control, because you are insecure somehow, or unhappy...or because you are worried about expressing and acknowledging your emotions otherwise, and they have to come out somehow'. He went on to say that all my anxiety over bunnyboys past, and how we compare just screams out 'low self esteem' and fear.

 

He asked about my family. I explained how dad gets obsessive about things, and how mum gets depressed.

 

Anyway...we have homework to do. He wants me to document my mood swings, and bunnyboy to document the frequency of my questioning.

 

I'll stop rambling about it now.. I'll be going once a week or every couple of weeks, to see this guy for a while i think.

[moimeme]

. he said 'you dont want to be in and out of psychologists offices for years, treating one thing, then another. I think we need to find out what is causing all this obsessive thinking. Otherwise we'll solve this, and it will attach to something else. In the end it will always come down to your desire to control, because you are insecure somehow, or unhappy...or because you are worried about expressing and acknowledging your emotions otherwise, and they have to come out somehow'. He went on to say that all my anxiety over bunnyboys past, and how we compare just screams out 'low self esteem' and fear.

 

Hey - even an ethical guy who's not out to Woody Allen you

[Thinkalot]

As my user name suggests, I think a lot. After seeing the psych who took a much more holistic approach to my obsessive thinking...looking at the various causes, and aiming to treat the potential emotional causes/problems (fear, insecurity etc), it got me thinking about what really causes OCD. I am sure it varies from person to person. There is, I have discovered, no definitive answer. Simply saying, it's my brain chemicals out of balance, seems too narrow an answer. It seems more like a combination of factors, including, genetics, brain chemicals AND emotions, life experience etc.

 

I found this comment in an article which sums that idea up:

 

"There are certainly neurobiological aspects to any behavioral manifestation, but it is not possible for a scientific perspective which requires empirical proof to truly ascertain the cause of any condition - because emotional and spiritual components of a human's being can not be quantified. In other words, brain chemistry is definitely out of balance in relationship to any physical disorder or mental condition - including OCD, Bi-Polar Disorder, Depression, etc. That imbalance in brain chemistry definitely has an impact on emotions - but it is not possible to say absolutely which is the cause and which is the effect. The chicken and egg conundrum. In other words, did the emotional trauma and the fear and shame based relationship to life cause the chemical imbalance in the brain - or did the chemical imbalance come first.."

 

I just thought I'd share for anyone's who's interested, and anyone who perhaps suffers a similar condition.

[jt5165]

i have kind of a question i guess. i have had lots of problems with my parents and it of course affected my relationships, which have all ended the same. now that my current girlfriend is leaving me, i feel like i need to do something. i dont want to lose her. i know i pushed her away and i was paranoid and i needed constant reassurance that we were ok. i went to a therapist and i took paxil for a while, but it interfered with another medicine i was taking, so i stopped. what should i do?

[Thinkalot]

Hi. Find a therapist (perhaps a different one) you are comfortable talking with , to determine what is causing you to feel the way you do. Sort out a way you can manage your medications.

 

An expert will help you identify the issues/cause, and help you solve them.

 

I am sorry you are losing your girlfriend...but if you start getting treatment, things will look up for you for sure!

 

if there is a chance she will stay, explain to her your feelings, and what you are doing to help yourself.

[jt5165]

i cant take any antipsychotic meds right now because im taking so many others. so i dont know if there is anything i can do about that. in your opinion, does the medicine help? would it make a difference?

[Thinkalot]

Yes, in my opinion, it certainly does help, depending on what sort of condition you have. It makes it easier to think calmly and rationally.

 

However, you should see a professional for advice on this one. Good luck

[Thinkalot]

Hello friends. I went back for the second of many visits to come to my psychologist on Friday. I went by myself this time.

 

When I arrived, he said, well I've definately found you in the books. He pulled out his diagnostic book, and read through the points which identify Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder. Sure enough, i ticked off most of the points, including things like, chronically late (because you just HAVE to do one more thing before you go), and 'has trouble delegating, unless the other person does things the EXACT way you want'. Yes, I'm afraid that's me as well. There were other things such as perfectionist tendencies, a tendency to be stubborn and rigid in viewpoints (who me? ) etc.

 

So, he said he really wants to work with me to try and crack some of the things driving my anxiety/obsessiveness, and break some of my habits etc. and asks if I am committed to that etc.

 

Then, the conversation swung to my relationship with my fiance. The psych wanted to know how my moods were...and I said up and down, because of the amount of fighting going on at home. I explained how often we fight, to the point I end up in tears, and mentioned the level of anger displayed by my fiance, including the swearing, name calling, threats of violence. I explained my role...that I push, and don't stop etc.

 

He said well- some of that is OCD driven, and some is clearly separate communication/relationship problem solving issues etc. He said "we need to work on the relationship, before we can work on you, otherwise all your energy will be going into that anyway, and to crack the OCD, you ideally need a supportive loving environment. We also need to reduce his (my fiances) anger...and you need to find a way to stop" etc.

 

I got upset talking about it actually...to the point I was fighting back tears. My psych said in all the times he's seen me over the past few years (for my eating disorder, issues with mum, and this)...he's noticed how well I mask (or try to) and control my emotions. He said "you speak about things which are obviously hard for you with a smile on your face...for you to be showing me this much emotion- the most you've ever displayed openly in front of me...things must be pretty bad for you". I said, yes, I was pretty stressed.

All, in all, am very impressed, comfortable with this therapist.

 

Anyway..seeing him again early in the new year, this time with my fiance. The psych wants to work with both of us until the relationship smooths out more...then focus on me. My fiance is all for the idea, and said he's excited about actively trying to better things. We spoke on the weekend, and he admitted some of his inner strain, and stress with work and other things, and things he needs from me. I was so glad he opened up and shared with me for a change. I realised I maybe do all the emotional talking usually, and he doesn't get a chance!

 

So good developments IMHO. Plus, on thursday we moved into a new place. It's RIGHT on the beach, and we just feel so happy and relaxed at home . We didn't realise how much we didn't like where we were living before. We both felt closer on the weekend than we have in some time. It was like being there was a breath of fresh air, literally and figuratively, for us. We even put up all our outdoor xmas lights, and this afternoon after work I am making some christmas slices. Before, I hated being home...now I cant wait to go home.

 

Thanks for listening. I find it theraputic to share this stuff.

[johan]

I like that psychologist. He seems to have a vision for dealing with this.

 

I've noticed that about you, Thinkalot. You've written a lot of posts giving the facts of what's going on with you, but you haven't shown a lot of emotion. If you could become more comfortable expressing your emotions, maybe the obsessiveness would relax a little bit. Maybe the obsessiveness is your mind's way of expressing emotions you won't let out otherwise. That's my amateur psychologist side speaking.

 

I'm glad to see you so upbeat.

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by johan

If you could become more comfortable expressing your emotions, maybe the obsessiveness would relax a little bit. Maybe the obsessiveness is your mind's way of expressing emotions you won't let out otherwise. That's my amateur psychologist side speaking.

 

 

well, Johan, you may have missed your calling as a psychologist, because that is exactly what the psychologist said too.

[moimeme]

Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder

 

 

Oh dear. Oh. Dear. Thank heavens, Thinkalot, that you're willing to try to be repaired because OCPD is a brute. It's not really OCD, it's related but a disorder all on its own. I thought my ex might have it but he was missing several of the symptoms but I read several articles and papers on it (there weren't many to be found). Seems that people with OCPD can be so overconfident that many therapists despair of treating them because they tend to think the therapists are out to lunch!

 

I keep forgetting to mention this site, which has tons of great information. This is its OCPD section

 

http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-pe10.html

 

Ah - here's that article I read ages ago. It was one of the few around at the time. There's a lot more info on OCPD on the Internet now but this guy seemed to have quite a bit of konwledge about it.

 

http://www.ocdonline.com/articlephillipson6.htm

[Thinkalot]

Thanks Merry...I shall check those out right away. I must say, I was missing some of the points too, and some of the points were things I used to be like, but am no longer.

 

One of the points had to do with hoarding money etc...definately not me, for example.

[Thinkalot]

I have just been reading those links Merry, and now feel a little confused. I certainly can relate to some of the things in the diagnostic list, and some of the descriptions. But others, I most certainly do not. For example, I am completely open to help and suggestions, and do not think I am right, and therefore not in need of help.

 

As I said, the psych mentioned it, thought it was a possibility that that applied to me, read out the list of criteria, at least half of which I could relate to, and said he would give me further forms etc to see....then the whole focus of the session switched to my relationship, and off me and the ocd, or ocpd.

 

At this point, I don't know which relates to me.

 

I do have perfectionist tendencies, run late, like things done my way, like lists, schedules, order to things, can be stubborn and judgemental....

 

But not I would have thought, to a severe extent. Oh well, I guess that's why I am seeing a psych...so he can sort it out.

[moimeme]

It'll be interesting to see how you test. IMAO (In My Armchair Opinion) , it's plain old garden-variety OCD. OCPDers are supposed to be almost impossible to get along with because they are so rigid, uncompromising, and convinced of their perfection. It didn't seem like you but maybe there's degrees of it. Anyhoo, so long as he figures out what will help, that's the important thing.