confusedleila Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 HI, I'm wondering if there are women out there who left their children with ex-husband. I have 3 and over the years both me and my husband did a lot of things that damaged our relationship (no cheating involved) He, so to speak, pushed his stupid button and is now acting like a normal father/husband but I lost any love for him and I'm still the occasional maniac. According to my husband my oldest won't talk to me because she's scared of what I'm going to tell her (yell). Being a teenager she doesn't even care about me right now. THe two little ones though, need me even if daddy's the one they want more. I'm seeing a counsellor about a number of issues I have - who thinks I'm having the symptoms of a midlife crises, even though I'm only 33. Though I don't sleep on the couch, we've been roommates for the past 4 months, and I don't think that'll ever change. My husband says that I should stop thinking about what happened in the past and think about the future but I can't see myself being romantic with him again. I know his heart would break if I took the kids with me, so I'm thinking about leaving the kids with him. I've always been the man in this relationship, and I think I'm going to end up being the weekend parent. WHere do you draw the line between taking responsibility and yet again giving up/abandoning something you started? Is it selfish to want to have a career that is meaningful to you, even if you have to move for it? Do kids really suffer on the long term if their mother is not around? Is it possible to have a marriage that is about raising happy children and not about being happy with your partner? Thanks, ConfusedLeila Link to post Share on other sites
tiki Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 It's never been a consideration for me. If you are considering, please look at all options and alternatives. Do some research to find out how it may affect your children. I am not an expert nor could I help you with any of your questions/concerns ...but only tell you to extensively research them. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Stone Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Originally posted by confusedleila HI, Do kids really suffer on the long term if their mother is not around? Is it possible to have a marriage that is about raising happy children and not about being happy with your partner? Thanks, ConfusedLeila I think kids do suffer if there mother isn't around, and they will feel abandoed. My parents stayed togeather to raise me and my brother, we're now 24 and 22 and they are still togeather, I guess they just arn't ready for a change i also think you should give 110% for your kids, if it doesn't work there is nothing else you can do. But they deserve all of your efforts Link to post Share on other sites
tiki Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Have you considered joint custody at all? Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedleila Posted December 8, 2004 Author Share Posted December 8, 2004 Tiki, I've thought about joint custody. That would only work for us if we lived next door to each other. Then we might as well stay together. I don't believe in staying together at all costs for the sake of the kids. My parents did that and all three of us are really messed up still (my sister, brother and I). If husband and I argue all the time, yell at everyone because we go on each others nerves, then who is it good for? And if you decide to stay together, like roommate, for the sake of the kids, is an open marriage ok as long as the kids don't know? ConfusedLeila ----------------------------------------- Why does wisdom always come afterwards and not before you need it? Link to post Share on other sites
tiki Posted December 8, 2004 Share Posted December 8, 2004 Yeah, I don't think you should live miserably for the sake of your children either. I wouldn't do the open dating thing, but that's just my opinion. My joint custody works like this. One week I get my son Monday, Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday Next week I get him Wednesday, Thursday. It's conducive to my ex's flip-flop schedule. It's crazy, I know. But it works out well and allows us to see him plenty, yet have lives of our own. We do live in the same city, though. When my child reaches school-age (next August) he will stay with me full-time and see his dad every other weekend and after school on some day. But he'll stay in my home every night for stablization purposes. Have you considered that you may be obligated to pay child support if dad has them full-time? Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedleila Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 I've talked to a lawyer, and researched the internet, and I think I'd have to pay about half my income as child support. That is not my concern. THe kids are at the worst age for a divorce (not that there is a good age) 14, 5 and 3. Actually my real issue with the divorce is that I'm from Europe and husband is American. If I stay together with husband, there's a chance that we'll move back. If we divorce, I'll be stuck here for ever, or at least until the kids are grown up. He won't move house locally either, eventhough he's miserable where we are now, too. I know several people who have joint custody and it works ok for the kids but it's not so nice for the parents. Anyway, I'm not a parent who's willing to give up everything for her kids. I love them to death, and they are my number one priority but I need to take care of my own needs as well. COnfusedLeila Link to post Share on other sites
Stone Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by confusedleila Anyway, I'm not a parent who's willing to give up everything for her kids. COnfusedLeila Well saying that your kids are better off with there father.. Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Honey Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Welp, my best friend was divorced (the first time) when her kids were about 5 and 3. She signed over custody to one of HIS family, because he had a drinking problem and she couldn't afford to support the kids on her own. Frankly, I couldn't believe that she would DO such a thing. Then, she married again, had a couple more kids, got divorced and left those kids with their dad. I guess she couldn't afford the second set of kids on her own either. Again, I had a hard time comprehending the whole idea. I had been married for several years with two kids, when I got my first inclination to move. I was literally torn apart inside. I thought that the kids deserved to be with their dad, because they NEED their dad. Then I thought that they NEED their mom, too. But what kind of mom was I, if I thought about breaking up the family? That told me that the kids were better off with him, because of "the kind of mother I was." (I was VERY good at guilt-tripping myself.) For a loooong time, I'd hug and kiss my kids at night, not knowing if I'd be home in the morning to wake them up. After a LOT of mind-wrestling, I came to the conclusion that my kids didn't ask to be here. I CHOSE for them to be here. That made me responsible for them. That also meant that they didn't deserve to "lose" either parent, so I stayed. Now, there are people who will say that that isn't the "right" thing to do, and they MAY be right, but to that I say that my kids have NEVER had to wonder if they were loved by either parent. I stayed until the youngest was 17 1/2 years old, then I decided to get an apartment close to the house. The youngest lives with Dad, because it was MY choice to leave, so I wasn't about to drag him out or attempt to make a mess of things. So, after all of that, what I'm trying to say is that everyone is different. I really don't know how my girl friend's kids think of her or relate to her. She is still my best friend and she is a good person. I do know that I still get a hug (and a smooch if I can "sneak" one) from my kids. In your last post, Confused Leila, you make it sound (even though you "love them to death') as though your kids are an "inconvenience" for you. Personally, I find that VERY sad . . . Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well, I'm a guy, and I'm of the opinion that its no worse leaving the kids with dad than it would be to leave the kids with mom. That's a perception that our culture seems to have, but the reality is something entirely different. My wife nearly left me when her emotional affair was found out, and she would have had to leave the kids here with me while she ran off to her boyfriend. The sad truth is, I'm a better parent than she is in a lot of ways...they would have damn sure been better off left with me had she actually left than they would have been with her and him. It sounds to me from the tone of your posts that you've given up on your marriage...and given up in a lot of ways on your family too. Given all that...leave them with Dad...it sounds like he's made them the REAL priority in his life now. Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Honey Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Owl: I apologize to you and any other guy out there that may have taken my post as me implying that men aren't "the best parent" or something. I didn't mean it that way at all. I know for a fact that some Dads are better parents than the Moms are. And I, in NO way, suggested that my husband was less suited to the job. I simply meant that I feel that kids really do need BOTH parents. I firmly believe that kids need to feel that they are loved unconditionally and in endless amounts. They have enough questions about the world that they are growing up in, they shouldn't have to ask if they are loved and by whom. A good parent is a good parent. Gender has nothing to do with it. Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedleila Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 I'm sure you all think that I'm a lousy parent, and probably a lousy person too. I get that a lot from my husband. But just for a second imagine that you moved to Australia, you got married, you had kids, then your husband did something despicable to you and you don't love him anymore. You hate your job, you don't have any friends, and now you don't love your husband. But you have a whole set of family back here, and some friends too. You disagree with a lot of things the Australians do and you think it would be much better for your kids to live in the US. Wouldn't you be torn between your children needing both parents and what you think would be best for them in terms of the environment they grow up in? Would you still want to be with your husband? Could you? But you can't take the children. Maybe most of what I'm posting here is just venting and hurt. That's what most of us do here, right? I have thought about staying with husband until the youngest graduates from high school but that's 15 more years, which is more than the time I've already lived in this country and more than twice as much as I've been married to him. Lil Honey, I would be interested in knowing how you managed to stay with your husband for so long. And to all of those who say I don't deserve my kids because I'm not willing to give up everything for them (which I haven't done yet, and I'm still with my husband), you have yet to convince me that a woman who chooses her career before her family is any more deserving of her children than I am. I stayed at home with my kids for 3 years and it's tearing me apart that because of my boss, my husband is the one who picks them up from school and spends more time with them. ConfusedLeila Link to post Share on other sites
Stone Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 I could never imagine living without my kids or living in a diffrent country than them for that matter. I know you have faimly in "whereever your from" but these kids are your faimly. I don't think you have given 110% for your children, you want to leave the country without them Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Honey Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by confusedleila Lil Honey, I would be interested in knowing how you managed to stay with your husband for so long. Well . . . I was able to stay married because of a few things, actually. First, my husband didn't do anything despicable. He has been disrespectful and a lot of other things, but I learned to ignore him as much as he ignored me. We have lived like roommates. And these days, I guess you're lucky if you can find a good roommate. Second, I have older parents who came from a time when divorce was not an option, so I was wrestling with telling them that it was over, what other people would think, blah, blah, blah. Third, "healthy" or not, I centered my life around my kids. My kids have been my everything, so my husband was . . . I dunno . . . this is going to sound cold, but . . . he was . . . just there. Anyhoo, everything that I've done, I've done with my kids in mind. Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedleila Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Stone, your comments are not helpful at all. I get enough negative feedback from my husband. Just for your information, just because somebody is thinking about something doesn't mean that she will do what she thinks, and it definitely doesn't mean that that person is bad for having "bad" thoughts. Afterall, then many of us would be murderers just because we entertained the thought of killing someone. Lil Honey, thanks for your post. I can't believe you actually helped me make a decision. Why am I paying the shrink??? I decided to try to stick around until my son graduates from high school. Then we'll see. I'll have to find another way to reach my other goals in life. Link to post Share on other sites
Lil Honey Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Originally posted by confusedleila But just for a second imagine that you moved to Australia, you got married, you had kids, then your husband did something despicable to you and you don't love him anymore. You hate your job, you don't have any friends, and now you don't love your husband. But you have a whole set of family back here, and some friends too. You disagree with a lot of things the Australians do and you think it would be much better for your kids to live in the US. Wouldn't you be torn between your children needing both parents and what you think would be best for them in terms of the environment they grow up in? Would you still want to be with your husband? Could you? But you can't take the children. I do want to address at least part of this paragraph. Yes, I would be torn with what is best for my kids. But, like I said (either here or in a similar post), I think kids need BOTH parents. At the same time, YOU need to be happy - at least as happy as you can be. So with that, take a look at your above paragraph. Are there things that you can do differently than what you are doing now? You can't change the country you live in, but maybe you can find some good things to see in it and focus on those. You say that you hate your job. Not a lot of people LOVE their jobs, btw. *wink* I don't know what the employment situation is there, but could you find a job that you would like more? That would remove some stress in your life and give you an area in your you are happy with (or at least feel in control of). As far as the environment that your kids are in, I'm not sure if you are talking about the community, or the homelife with a despicable father. Either way, you can move. If you don't like the community, think about moving the entire family to a nicer neighborhood. If you don't like the homelife that they are in, you can divorce their father, but live within easy access, so that they can still see him. Or find a way for the entire family to move to the US. You still don't have to live under the same roof, but I don't recommend putting an ocean between parent and child. The thing is, if the father did something to hurt YOU, then he hurt YOU, not the kids. Their relationship with him is different than your relationship with him and is best viewed as an entirely separate issue. And as far as your shrink comment in your last post . . . I haven't sent you a bill yet. LOL Link to post Share on other sites
Author confusedleila Posted December 9, 2004 Author Share Posted December 9, 2004 Well, here's the thing. For years, we were talking about moving to Europe - one day. Then things started piling up and i got an itch. I did find something I'd like to do but I need to go back to school for that, and in my area the schedule for it is insane. 4 nights a week plus a weekend day for 5 months and then 2x week nights and a weekend day for 2 years. That would almost be equal of me not being present at all. I found the same program over in Europe, which only takes up one weekend a months for 3 years but at least it's managable. Moving within the US would be the same as moving to Europe, as far as contacts go. There's no difference between moving from the East Coast to the West Coast and moving from the East Coast to Europe. But because I have a number of issues with husband now, he won't move saying he's got nobody over there. ANd we can't afford to move locally. The area where I would move to is too expensive. It would be from the suburbs to an urban area - almost like a city center. I do realize that the issues I have with husband are between him and me. NOW. Before I had issues with him that related to the kids. He changed. I wouldn't have hesitated leaving with the kids if he were still the @$$hole he was before towards the kids. And we are just roommates and most likely will stay roommates. Link to post Share on other sites
Spira Posted December 9, 2004 Share Posted December 9, 2004 Um, this is just my personal experience with the subject. When my parents were divorced, my mom, sister, and I moved to another state together. After several years of verbal abuse (which on a few occasions turned physical) and living with a selfish, uncaring mother, she decided that she no longer wanted the responsibility of her children and decided that she would send us off to live with our father. Though I wanted nothing more than to escape her and move to a bigger city, I suffered depression for around two years after the move because of the 1) I was leaving all my friends / my life / etc, and 2) I was bitter towards both of my parents for what had happened to me & my sister over the years. However, at this point I realize that I was much better of with my father because he was the caring & responsible parent and I adore him for being the *only* person in my life that always cared for me, unconditionally. However, I believe that it is better for the children to be with *one capable parent* rather than two parents which are constantly at war with each other in front of the kids. I think the best thing you could do for your children would be to realize that if you can't care for them in the way they need & feel you have things in your life that will get in the way, then let their father do it, or vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites
MWC_LifeBeginsAt40 Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 I've struggled with the same issue over the last few years. I left for 3 months, and left the kids with their dad. I moved back in, and it took a long time before I felt welcome in my own home. The kids were 6 and 4. Now they are 7 and 9 and we are separating for good. It took alot of thinking because I know they would be very well off with either parent. However I didn't want to leave them again and couldn't bear "taking" them away from their father. I bought a house in the same smaller town and they are going to live with each of us 50% of the time. I believe it will work out. The split is so far going amicably. The kids will have two weeknights at each home and then alternate the 3 nights on the weekend. I'm looking forward to the few days a week that I will be alone so I can study to further my education and just have the time alone I need. Good luck with whatever you decide, but please make sure you have all your ducks in a row. Link to post Share on other sites
Merin Posted December 13, 2004 Share Posted December 13, 2004 Leaving My little people was never and could never be an option for me... Everyone is different with what is acceptable and okay for them and what isn't... in my life there is not nor ever will be anyone or anything more important to me then my kiddos.. They are my "wee peeps" my "little people" my "girlfriends" and my reasons.. and it would kill me not to be with them, see them grow, see the world from thier eyes and for them to know when they are all grown that I loved them and would have walk through the depths of hell to do the right things for them always. Thier Dad see's them every other weekend and on Thursdays.. he did some f**ked up things and thats why we are no longer together.. BUT I am still friends with him.. and that again.. I do for my kids. Just me... Link to post Share on other sites
jangle04 Posted December 17, 2004 Share Posted December 17, 2004 Well my wife recently left me for another man and I have custody of the children. A seven year old girl and three year old boy. I know I am a better parent than her though and try to do the best I can for them. She has a really short temper. She is only getting them about one night a week and I told her she needs to do it more because it isn't fair to me or them. I just don't know. She said she doesn't have time. I made some wrong choices when I picked her I guess. You think you know someone. The kids wake up at night asking where Mommy is and I just tell them she's at work or not here. I'm just saying whatever you choose the kids will always remember who was there for them in the end. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Jangle- Take a look at my post...you're wife is saying exactly the same things that my wife said when her affair was discovered. To include the wish to have us both!!! Obviously, she still loves you, but is blinded by being "in love" with the OM. The only thing that can cure that is if she left him or if he left her. Until that happens, there really isn't much you can do at this point. I really do feel for you friend. Hang in there...PM me if you like! Link to post Share on other sites
jangle04 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yeah you're right. The time came sooner than I thought. His wife has come back into the picture. She called me this morning crying. I don't know what the hell to do! In the back of my mind I want to forgive and forget but can't. There's too much damage. She keeps making her hole bigger too. She said I can't stand the thought of losing you both. She seems more upset at the thought of losing him than she was me. I can't stand it. She's messing with my head. I'm not a safety net. I just don't know what to do in this situation. I know I need time and she said she's not asking for me back because she knows it could never be the same. She was just telling me she's sorry, she messed up and nobody could ever love her like me. Anyone have any advice on how to react in this situation? Man everybody has problems don't they. I guess this is the place to go without involving personal friends. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Well, you asked for advice, so I'll give ya mine...LOL Realize something...the only way she can sort out her feelings for you is if he is OUT of the picture. This sounds like a chance for her to do exactly this. Right now, she's going to be in a "withdrawl" phase of her addiction to him...read my post, you'll see my wife went through it too. They get 'addicted' to the other person...and it takes 3 weeks to a month of NC for that addiction to run its course. Right now is your chance to show her how much you love her and are willing to help her out...BUT...don't make it seem like she can just waltz back into your life like nothing ever happened between you either. Show her you love her...and show her the reasons why she should stay with you...but DON'T let her think that she's just automatically forgiven and accepted back. If nothing else, tell her you're there to help her get on her own feet. (again, that's what happened in my case) Seriously, at this point, tell her that you'll help her out...IF she agrees to several conditions. 1. Sever ALL connection with him whatsoever. She doesn't want to lose you both...so its time for her to cut her losses and just lose one of you. She's lost him...time for her to see about keeping you (tell her at least as a friend). (And remember what I said about her being blind to her love for you due to the "in love" feelings for him...she will likely swing back to you like a magnet if/when those feelings are severed. 2. She has to start doing things for herself.- Help her to get a better job (help with her resume, help her look for jobs, help her work on getting her affairs in order). This sounds self-defeating, but in truth it lets her know that you love her regardless. And in truth, even if she leaves you, as long as its not FOR HIM, you may feel like I did and that at least she did it right that way. 3. Marriage Counseling- She has to agree to attend counseling with you to try to work out what has failed in your marriage. At this point, both of you need to figure out what is lacking in your marriage. 4. Personal counseling- She needs to start going to some counseling to come to terms with things herself. Both of you should do this...my wife and I did it for a while, and it helped a LOT. It sounds to me like she's feeling a LOT like my wife did when her OM could tell that she was hesitating, and he told her not to come to him. She feels hurt and rejected, and you're the only person she really has left to turn to. Don't be foolish and just act like nothing ever happened, but if you do want to try to reconcile, now is your chance. Make sure that she understands that if she contacts him in any way or fashion, that she's OUT...cold turkey!!! Link to post Share on other sites
jangle04 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Well that all sounds good. The only problem is my wife works with this guy and this went on for a while. It's a given that they've had sex. She tried to turn things around on me while we were together and I was convinced I was losing my mind. Even today she acts like she is trying to wait around to see if it works out between him and his wife. I know this isn't why she won't ask for me back right now. His wife just came back yesterday. I think a lot of the problem is that I have been there to much for her since this. I will continue to be nice and try to avoid her but I can't do any of these things until she puts me first. I will not be second to anyone and as much as we shared and I love her I need somebody who will love me back and I won't have to beg for their love. I have to stand up and be a man! My biggest worry is the kids we have together, but she should have thought about all this. You have no idea the true hell I went through. I want to so bad but I don't think we could ever rebuild it. Maybe I'm wrong though. I'm assuming the pain she is showing is from him but after I think about it I believe it is from all she has lost from our family too. Now she has nothing to fall back upon. She thought he was there for her. It's not fair to me though. Link to post Share on other sites
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