Miss Cuddles!

[Trimmer]

See now, where is the male version of that? But, its just not the same. I tried cuddling with a friend, and its nice, but it is just totally not the real deal.

 

; I wouldn't mind making out right now either. What sucks for me, is that I really have to be intellectually and emotionally attached to the person I am making out with.

It sounds like you are much, much too substantial, my dear. Maybe if you were more vacuous.

 

When I first read your subject line, I thought maybe you had adopted a new cat - the cutest thing in the world - and you were posting excitedly to tell us what you named it.

[JoelBarish]

I saw a story on the news sometime in the last two weeks where some chick started a "cuddle" company. She basically rents herself out to come cuddle with you.

 

Hey I saw that news story too!

[AnyaNova]

It sounds like you are much, much too substantial, my dear. Maybe if you were more vacuous.

 

When I first read your subject line, I thought maybe you had adopted a new cat - the cutest thing in the world - and you were posting excitedly to tell us what you named it.

 

No such luck. I do have the cutest kitty in the world, but his name is not cuddles. He is a cuddle bug, but its not the same as a whole human male curled up next to you.

 

So where are all the non-vacuous guys out there who are my age, relatively complex, and who view touch and sex with the same kind of respect and sacredness that I do? Who don't have major attachment issues or odd beliefs that are quite possibly insurmountable?

[JoelBarish]

No such luck. I do have the cutest kitty in the world, but his name is not cuddles. He is a cuddle bug, but its not the same as a whole human male curled up next to you.

 

So where are all the non-vacuous guys out there who are my age, relatively complex, and who view touch and sex with the same kind of respect and sacredness that I do? Who don't have major attachment issues or odd beliefs that are quite possibly insurmountable?

 

Well I am your age anyway

[AnyaNova]

Well I am your age anyway

 

You live on the dark side of the moon. I don't do LDR's. :-p

 

But seriously, all y'all are out there. Where can a shy introvert to ti find you in real life? Clearly, OLD is not cutting it.

 

I really do miss the physical contact. There is something so powerful and spiritual. I miss sharing that with someone. Why didnt anyone tell me that the 19th of July was the last time I was ever going to kiss my boyfriend? And that I still wouldn't have anyone in October?

 

I can't even go out tonight for a little bit because I got accidentally glutened again in the last day or so. Still have no idea what from, but it is bad!!!

 

So yeah. Morose tonight.

[JoelBarish]

Just wanted to let you know I am just as old as you.

 

I don't much care for the bar scene. I like the library or book stores. The park in the summer. Art festivals. Star bucks. Going to the movies. I do enjoy live music. Fitness classes.

[Mr Scorpio]

Why didnt anyone tell me that the 19th of July was the last time I was ever going to kiss my boyfriend? And that I still wouldn't have anyone in October?

 

Still? Try not to feel bad about being single right now. Three months isn't that much time to heal, although it has probably felt like an eternity. That is not to invalidate your pain. I don't blame you for missing the things which you miss. But, you'll be a better "other-half" for someone if you are a better whole to yourself. Or something.

[AnyaNova]

Just wanted to let you know I am just as old as you.

 

I don't much care for the bar scene. I like the library or book stores. The park in the summer. Art festivals. Star bucks. Going to the movies. I do enjoy live music. Fitness classes.

 

Sounds like me. :-)

 

I think my dating life would probably be a lot easier if I were an outgoing extrovert. But in public I kind of lock up, usually.

[JoelBarish]

Still? Try not to feel bad about being single right now. Three months isn't that much time to heal, although it has probably felt like an eternity. That is not to invalidate your pain. I don't blame you for missing the things which you miss. But, you'll be a better "other-half" for someone if you are a better whole to yourself. Or something.

 

I agree. Being single for awhile can be fun. You have all the freedom in the world. And then the next time you're in a relationship, you're ready for that change too. It's just hard not to want the intimacy right now.

[AnyaNova]

Still? Try not to feel bad about being single right now. Three months isn't that much time to heal, although it has probably felt like an eternity. That is not to invalidate your pain. I don't blame you for missing the things which you miss. But, you'll be a better "other-half" for someone if you are a better whole to yourself. Or something.

 

The thing is, is that I have reached the point where I am happy on my own and don't need someone else to complete me. I reached that stage a long time ago.

 

At this point, I am just to a point in my life, where you just want to share yourself with someone, and it becomes increasingly consternating that you have no one to share with, in that deep and intimate way. (Obviously, I mean more than friends, family etc. which I have).

 

The thing is, I could line up dates with very nice men who totally don't think like I do at all, and given the brain chemicals involved, I could probably even fall in love with them. But I know that I would wake up years later, and be completely bored.

 

But men who have similar thinking processes and imagination, who view touch as something sacred, and who really "get" me and who I really "get" are so few and far between.

 

I know three months isn't that long. And two of them I was focused on getting him back (though up until the couple of weeks before September 6th, I didn't really realize it, and I only realized it because it seemed from his behavior like he wanted to get back together).

 

Anyway, yeah. So here I am, missing cuddles, and trying to figure out how to meet someone who is a good fit for me.

[monkeymaid]

This is all speculation here Anya so take it for what it is worth (some guys interpretation that you read on the internet).

 

I read your story, That one is rough. Sounds like he has been afraid of relationships forever. You were his first girlfriend since highschool. Sounds like he has walls and moats and a whole fortified army that you would have to get through without getting detected to actually get him to feel something real. You probably got closer than anyone else, but I really dont think you had any hope of really staying as close to him as you got. He would have never allowed it. My guess is he doesnt really like himself too much and is afraid that whatever he does will never be good enough. That goes along with him being a people pleaser.

 

I am also guessing that because you realized you loved him AFTER you drove away, you may have some panic emotions still in play. (we always want what we cant have) In the shirt term, absence makes the heart grow fonder. Then, over a longer period of time, it kills any feelings you had ...or resolves them really.

 

It looks like you might have stepped into a fight that you had no chance of even losing fairly, let alone winning.

 

We people with abandonment issues can love, we just end up pushing those people away because in our life experiences, the people we love leave us (everyone goes away in the end) and that is what we believe to the core. After a while it is too much pain to bare, and we just start pushing people away when they get in too deep. The possibility of opening up and getting hurt again is so much worse than just ending it at the point where we got **** on last time. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It becomes about pain avoidance. We can deal with the pain of loss by defering the pain and taking up an activity, a hobby, school, work, working out, another person (that we will ultimately throw away again) and thus the cycle continues.

 

Someone like that has recognize it for what it is, and they have to want to get out of the cycle (like me).

 

It will be hard and involve some intensive therapy and learning of new coping skills and resolving the feelings of people leaving (or telling us we are not good, or not good enough, or less than other people or whatever)

 

...that turned into a longer thread than I anticipated.

 

Hows the night coming for you? I am going to the gym, then maybe design a website or make changes to 1. I dont know yet. Anything to keep my mind busy. I missed her even more today than the last 4 weeks. Tomorrow is 28 days without her. It hurts so bad. All I want is that beautiful little woman. I dont even need her close, just accessible. I just want to know I could call her or kiss her if I so chose.I took Tylenol today to dull the pain and it worked! Though not for very long

 

..anyway

Edited October 20, 2013 by monkeymaid

[AnyaNova]

@Monkeymaid--I will reply in more depth a little later when I can. Right now I'm listening to Cash's "Hurt" and crying.

[AnyaNova]

This is all speculation here Anya so take it for what it is worth (some guys interpretation that you read on the internet).

 

You sound pretty knowledgeable on the topic at hand. I will take it with the necessary grain of salt, however.

 

I read your story, That one is rough. Sounds like he has been afraid of relationships forever. You were his first girlfriend since highschool. Sounds like he has walls and moats and a whole fortified army that you would have to get through without getting detected to actually get him to feel something real. You probably got closer than anyone else, but I really dont think you had any hope of really staying as close to him as you got. He would have never allowed it. My guess is he doesnt really like himself too much and is afraid that whatever he does will never be good enough. That goes along with him being a people pleaser.

 

Yes. He told me (though on that last night, he tried to backpedal when I expressed concern about this) that he really doesn't talk to people at work about important stuff. He really doesn't have any friends in any true sense of the word that he confides in, other than this mother. And while we were still together and/or not NC, me.

 

So you think that he didn't ever feel anything real for me at all? That he didn't even have a chance to? You think he never loved me? Never could?

 

I am also guessing that because you realized you loved him AFTER you drove away, you may have some panic emotions still in play. (we always want what we cant have) In the shirt term, absence makes the heart grow fonder. Then, over a longer period of time, it kills any feelings you had ...or resolves them really.

 

I think the intense need he showed for me really tapped into something in me. I probably have a little codependency going. But not too badly. Time has made it a lot better. However, changes in mood and circumstance can still lead me to have a bad night like tonight.

 

It looks like you might have stepped into a fight that you had no chance of even losing fairly, let alone winning

 

It was definitely seeming this way, yes.

 

We people with abandonment issues can love, we just end up pushing those people away because in our life experiences, the people we love leave us (everyone goes away in the end) and that is what we believe to the core. After a while it is too much pain to bare, and we just start pushing people away when they get in too deep. The possibility of opening up and getting hurt again is so much worse than just ending it at the point where we got **** on last time. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. It becomes about pain avoidance. We can deal with the pain of loss by defering the pain and taking up an activity, a hobby, school, work, working out, another person (that we will ultimately throw away again) and thus the cycle continues.

 

So you don't think after that night, he felt any pain at all over losing me? He just stuffed it and went on as if nothing happened? And I am left with all of the rubbish?

 

Someone like that has recognize it for what it is, and they have to want to get out of the cycle (like me).

 

It will be hard and involve some intensive therapy and learning of new coping skills and resolving the feelings of people leaving (or telling us we are not good, or not good enough, or less than other people or whatever)

 

I am glad that you are taking the time to get therapy and help. I wish he would. He really is (and I know I keep saying this) the sweetest puppy dog of a guy. He just wants everyone to like him and be happy. And he is so darn vulnerable in the world. He really does hook into my protective instincts.

 

Please, to the best of your utmost ability, never ever do this to anyone again. As bad as it was on the day of the breakup when I thought that he was just cold and didn't care for me anymore, getting the mixed message of "I need you so badly but I'm pushing you away." is hell. Literally. And it really screws with your head. I am not trying to make you feel bad or guilty for things that you could not control at the time. I guess I'm just trying to make you aware of the hell it is to be on the other side of this (not that it isn't, of course, hell to be on your side).

 

...that turned into a longer thread than I anticipated.

 

Hows the night coming for you? I am going to the gym, then maybe design a website or make changes to 1. I dont know yet. Anything to keep my mind busy. I missed her even more today than the last 4 weeks. Tomorrow is 28 days without her. It hurts so bad. All I want is that beautiful little woman. I dont even need her close, just accessible. I just want to know I could call her or kiss her if I so chose.I took Tylenol today to dull the pain and it worked! Though not for very long

 

..anyway

 

Not so great for me. I am glutened, so I really can't go out, which when I get like this (all depressed about it) is what I really need to do. I wish he felt that way about me. You have no idea how much I wish that he missed me and wanted me with him. After tonight, I'll go back to all the stuff I should be doing, but somehow tonight, I just guess I need to "Hurt." The irony, is that I have been through enough myself, that I am probably pretty close to becoming like this myself. I don't know how many more losses I can take right now.

[monkeymaid]

Yes. He told me (though on that last night, he tried to backpedal when I expressed concern about this) that he really doesn't talk to people at work about important stuff. He really doesn't have any friends in any true sense of the word that he confides in, other than this mother. And while we were still together and/or not NC, me.

 

So you think that he didn't ever feel anything real for me at all? That he didn't even have a chance to? You think he never loved me? Never could?

 

 

First part sounds right. I have 1 friend, adn havent been able to keep any others since I was 6 years old. I just catn seem to trust anyone. As for him not loving you, that is so far from the truth its scary He loved you so much that if he was vulnerable with you and you ended up leaving him (which he fully unconsiously expected you to as soon as you go to know the "real" him) he would not be able to bare it, so before you got a chance to push him away, he did it to you. It is a way to stay in control of himself and his feelings. Dont think he didnt love you because that is precisely why he pushed you away.

 

 

I think the intense need he showed for me really tapped into something in me. I probably have a little codependency going. But not too badly. Time has made it a lot better. However, changes in mood and circumstance can still lead me to have a bad night like tonight.

 

The need was the need a child needs for a parent. He needs someone to let him know that his thoughts and feelings are valid no matter what they are and that no matter what, they will never leave him. Not healthy for a lover/friend relationship. But very healthy for a parent/child relationship. Somewhere along the way, he learned that certain actions (usually expression of feelings) was not acceptable and so he had to learn how to adapt. His adaptation was to shove everythign down and put on a happy face because "man up! Men dont have those emotions/cry/complain/feel anything" They just are a rock and do as the family needs. That created a disconnect between his logical brain and everything else that feels. He wont let himself feel because his subconscious interpretations of the feelings are still that of a little boys and that just hurts, especially when you are a grown man with a life of not feeling.

 

 

So you don't think after that night, he felt any pain at all over losing me? He just stuffed it and went on as if nothing happened? And I am left with all of the rubbish?

 

This is a very unhealthy way to look at this. He has his **** and some things you really just need to disconcern yourself with. What you have to deal with is yourself and your interpretation of what happened. Some of us shove it down, disconnect and move on as if nothing happened, but it doesnt mean that we wont pay for that later. We will definitely feel it worse when we finally do face it. Constantly holding back a barage of repressed emotion is like a backup of lava waiting to come bursting out. Some of us turn into little babies and just cry and cry and are depressed till the next one comes along and "saves" us. This one you might want to not dwell on/force yourself to think differently. You cant really attack this because it really has nothign to do with you. I am sorry about that

 

I am glad that you are taking the time to get therapy and help. I wish he would. He really is (and I know I keep saying this) the sweetest puppy dog of a guy. He just wants everyone to like him and be happy. And he is so darn vulnerable in the world. He really does hook into my protective instincts.

 

We all are great people until that 1 or 2 things triggers the fear inside. Then we become little kids with no control and genuinely feel afraid for our lives. The only way out is through pushing them away, or getting help. As for not dong this again, I literally cant. I dont want to hurt anymore I've dated the most wonderful woman. In fact, she fulfilled all of my dreams/fantasies, and because she started salsa dancing seriously (1 of my 2 triggers) I lost it, fell into a deep depression as I desparately tried to stay in control, and then ended up letting her go because we were both miserable. If I was able to process my feelings of jealousy, loss, and potential abandonment, I would be kissing my girlfriend instead of writing on here about my ex. She even told me to go see a therapist, but my ego got in the way and I told her that it would just give me the confidence to leave her because I dont believe that people should dance that way with other people when they are in a committed relationship. I even know how to dance! Hell, I took her to her first class!!! I am so effing stupid. Really. OK, Im not, I just have a goddamned emotional disconnect that I need to reprogram/learn how to handle.

 

 

 

what is glutened?? like you have a gluten allergy and ate wheat??

 

If you keep letting the feelings flow through you, you will not end up like this. I promise. You have teh ability to feel, so let them come, feel them and then let them float away the same way they came. That is the trick to dealing with the feelings. at least thats what they tell me (my therapists).

[AnyaNova]

@Monkeymaid, The first thing I want to do is thank you so profusely for being willing to do into this so deeply with me. I know that to do so you have to really examine and irritate your own wounds. I know how that must hurt. But please know that you being willing to do so is really helping me greatly to understand, answer questions that I had, and to be able to get some closure on this whole mess. It does mean a lot to me that you are willing to do so.

 

This probably will get really long, I will try to keep it as short as possible. Unfortunately, the complexity of the issues at hand, don't lend themselves to comic strips (save those, perhaps, of an extremely dark bent).

 

First part sounds right. I have 1 friend, adn havent been able to keep any others since I was 6 years old. I just catn seem to trust anyone. As for him not loving you, that is so far from the truth its scary He loved you so much that if he was vulnerable with you and you ended up leaving him (which he fully unconsiously expected you to as soon as you go to know the "real" him) he would not be able to bare it, so before you got a chance to push him away, he did it to you. It is a way to stay in control of himself and his feelings. Dont think he didnt love you because that is precisely why he pushed you away.

 

Thank you for letting me know this. I mean, I knew, from all of his behavior and demonstrated feeling I knew. What hurts, and what really sucks about this, though, is that he never once told me. I never got to hear him say the words to tell me how he felt. He came close on a number of occasions, singing songs that utilized the L word when we were cuddling, but he never once clearly said to me, that he "loved me." That is one thing that really hurts still. I know he felt it.

 

But also it sucks that because I was waiting for him to say it, I never got to tell him how I felt (and yes, the absence thing, but looking back I really know that I really started to love him strongly during those whole last two wee)ks, if I were on the ball, I would have known and maybe at least, even if he couldn't tell me, I could have told him.

 

But it also means a lot to me to know that I wasn't just crazy, or doing what all dumped do, that I was reading him, his actions, and his body language correctly. He did love me, but he couldn't allow himself to trust me over the long term.

 

The need was the need a child needs for a parent. He needs someone to let him know that his thoughts and feelings are valid no matter what they are and that no matter what, they will never leave him. Not healthy for a lover/friend relationship. But very healthy for a parent/child relationship. Somewhere along the way, he learned that certain actions (usually expression of feelings) was not acceptable and so he had to learn how to adapt. His adaptation was to shove everythign down and put on a happy face because "man up! Men dont have those emotions/cry/complain/feel anything" They just are a rock and do as the family needs. That created a disconnect between his logical brain and everything else that feels. He wont let himself feel because his subconscious interpretations of the feelings are still that of a little boys and that just hurts, especially when you are a grown man with a life of not feeling.

 

Yes! This!

 

There were several incidents when we were swimming (which I think I forgot to include in the overall description) where I really got the sense that it was like he was trying to get mommy's (my) attention in a certain way, but given the circumstances (and I'm not sure he even realized it), what he was doing was actually highly emotionally inappropriate, so I wasn't going to reward that behavior. Each time (he finally figured it out and stopped the behavior) that he failed to elicit a reaction from me by that behavior, he would swim back to where I was, but before that he gave me these sad looks that I thought looked very much like a sad child who couldn't get mommy's attention and approval.

 

And the thoughts and feelings thing. I noticed very early on that he had immense trouble separating what he actually thought, felt, wanted, and needed from what others like his parents thought he should, tried to convince him he should, or thought was best for him.

 

I really wonder, how badly I upset the applecart, how scary it was for him, when I started to suggest that what he actually wanted and needed and thought and felt were important, should definitely be separated out from those of others, and that I would be willing to just ask questions and by letting him talk though things, figure out for himself what it is he actually felt, wanted, etc.

 

This is a very unhealthy way to look at this. He has his **** and some things you really just need to disconcern yourself with. What you have to deal with is yourself and your interpretation of what happened. Some of us shove it down, disconnect and move on as if nothing happened, but it doesnt mean that we wont pay for that later. We will definitely feel it worse when we finally do face it. Constantly holding back a barage of repressed emotion is like a backup of lava waiting to come bursting out. Some of us turn into little babies and just cry and cry and are depressed till the next one comes along and "saves" us. This one you might want to not dwell on/force yourself to think differently. You cant really attack this because it really has nothign to do with you. I am sorry about that

 

Apologies here. It sounds like I perhaps offended a little almost in asking. I did not mean to. The reason this question is so heavily on my mind, is because of what he said that last night. While crying and shaking and everything, he said that he was pretty sure that after the evening was over, after I was out of his life completely, that all he would feel would be relief. He did not say it to be mean or cruel. He was trying to honestly answer a question I had asked. I do not think he was able to have any conception of how deeply that statement would wound.

 

But it has kind of haunted me, these past few weeks, as I have been in various degrees of pain over the issue, that I have been suffering with this, and he may be feeling nothing but relief and calmness.

 

I know it is not a healthy way to look at it and I am trying not to. I hope you can understand, how if that statement were true, if that is what actually happened, that it could feel to me like I got the brunt load of his stuff.

 

With that said, I am really not sure about how I feel about him suffering more later. On the one hand, as much as he loved me (I am sure of it), it seems wrong that he gets out of this without pain. On the other hand, it sounds like he has suffered so much in his life anyway, that it also seems wrong that he suffer more.

 

We all are great people until that 1 or 2 things triggers the fear inside. Then we become little kids with no control and genuinely feel afraid for our lives. The only way out is through pushing them away, or getting help. As for not dong this again, I literally cant. I dont want to hurt anymore I've dated the most wonderful woman. In fact, she fulfilled all of my dreams/fantasies, and because she started salsa dancing seriously (1 of my 2 triggers) I lost it, fell into a deep depression as I desparately tried to stay in control, and then ended up letting her go because we were both miserable. If I was able to process my feelings of jealousy, loss, and potential abandonment, I would be kissing my girlfriend instead of writing on here about my ex. She even told me to go see a therapist, but my ego got in the way and I told her that it would just give me the confidence to leave her because I dont believe that people should dance that way with other people when they are in a committed relationship. I even know how to dance! Hell, I took her to her first class!!! I am so effing stupid. Really. OK, Im not, I just have a goddamned emotional disconnect that I need to reprogram/learn how to handle.

 

The night before he broke up with me in July, he had given me this long you could almost say, interrogation about the field I am currently getting my graduate degree in, and if there would be jobs open in the area (and the answer is probably not many, but private practice is something that many of us do as well. And he seemed really anxious and upset when I couldn't tell him exactly which job in the area I would be signing on for life, for. I tried to tell him (and this is actually generally true), that if two people love each other enough, they will find a way to be together. He kept saying over and over that that "wasn't good enough." Apparently, later on that night, while we were making out, he told me the next day while breaking up with me that he "didn't feel anything while kissing me." Or that was the stated reason the day that he did break up with me (weeks before our dramatic "last visit."

 

Perhaps that was his trigger. Me not being able to guarantee 100 percent that I would definitely be able to get a job in the area.

 

what is glutened?? like you have a gluten allergy and ate wheat??

 

It is, when you have celiac or unspecified gluten intolerance, accidentally ingesting wheat, rye, barley, or any of their derivative products.

 

If you keep letting the feelings flow through you, you will not end up like this. I promise. You have teh ability to feel, so let them come, feel them and then let them float away the same way they came. That is the trick to dealing with the feelings. at least thats what they tell me (my therapists).

 

I am trying to do this. It is not easy sometimes. I think talking through this, in a way, is a bit like cauterizing the wounds (for me). It hurts right now in the short term, but I think having so many insights into the kinds of things that might have been going through his head, and understanding why to him, he was acting logically and consistently, and making sense will ultimately help me process this. And again, thank you. I know that this can't be easy for you.

 

Edit: A question I forgot to ask. In speaking about this with my mother, who so far has been the only accurate predictor of his behavior (of all of the people I talked with about this, she was the one who didn't think we would be getting back together, I think perhaps she understood the depths of his issues in ways the rest of us didn't), thinks that he will never contact me again or respond to any attempts to contact him that I make. That he is just done. I know that you can't know or read his mind, but would this be a likely outcome given the attachment issues? Is there any hope that down the line I could show him, at least with my friendship, that everyone doesn't go away in the end? Or is this just a vain and futile hope?

Edited October 20, 2013 by AnyaNova

[monkeymaid]

It really is not a problem. It helps me analyze myself and how I approach relationships. I have a long long way to go to work this all out within myself. It is going to take possibly years of introspection, and feelings to get it to a place where I can deal with life in mature manner.

 

As nice as those words are to hear, he showed you his love. That was easy, but facing it by saying it is damn near impossible. I was only able to say it after 9 months and through tears. She was hurt and needed me, which I think is the reason we were able to work out for so long. We were 2 wounded people that completed each other. She became whole and I remained broken.

 

I wasnt offended actually, I just want to drive the point home that this is not your fault or your problem. You cant save him. He needs to save himself.

 

I fully believe that he cognitively knew/knows what he wants even now, but a 32 year old logical mind cannot reason with an 9 year old emotional one. He has to learn to feel things and to believe down to the core that he is safe in his feelings. He really has no ability to take care of his own emotional needs. He needs to work that out.

 

He isnt outwardly showing it, but he is literally dying inside. His body is dying slowly from the inside out because he refuses to confront his ****.

 

Whether or not he is hurting is ultimately inconsequential to you. Its your job to figure out why you want to save him so badly. What did he do for you that makes you love him so hard? Why him? What makes him so amazing? What do you see in him that is better than everyone else youve ever met?

 

I can answer all of those questions about my ex. I loathe calllng her that.

 

I am gluten free too. Have been for almost 6 years now. Just never heard of the term glutened. Its good for me

 

He may just push it all down and never breath another word about it or he may confront his demons one day and realize that he is so broken inside and want to be better. That is such a speculative subject. He may be crying alone at night beating himself up for not being able to suck it up and move on. He only knows.

 

If he hasnt come back to you and outright expressed a desire to rekindle something AND apologize, AND he in therapy, I wouldnt give him the time of day as he WILL leave again. It WILL become too much. The person he is now may just need a detached gold digger who will value him on his accomplishments the same way he values himself and wont try to get too close. I really cant answer such a speculative question

 

 

Just like me, its time for you to worry about you. Try to resolve this need to save him and to prove to him that he is lovable. Broken people tend to find other broken people to love. What makes you want to fix him so badly? ..other than the pain hes caused you?

[AnyaNova]

I don't know, fundamentally, why I want to save him so badly. I wish I did.

 

I can tell you that I have had a lot of trauma in my life. I don't know. Maybe I think that somehow I can fix myself if I fix him?

 

I have been trying to figure this out.

 

I know I can't fix him. I know that I can't make him better, and I wouldn't touch anything with him at all with a ten foot pole without therapy on his part (I'm in it, anyway, right now).

 

I'm pretty sure my attachment is probably messed up somehow too, I'm just not sure how. I know that I don't push people away, at least.

 

I apologize , I would try to say or do something to try and comfort or help you, but righ now it hurts so damn much, I can't really think straight.

[JoelBarish]

I don't know, fundamentally, why I want to save him so badly. I wish I did.

 

I can tell you that I have had a lot of trauma in my life. I don't know. Maybe I think that somehow I can fix myself if I fix him?

 

I have been trying to figure this out.

 

I know I can't fix him. I know that I can't make him better, and I wouldn't touch anything with him at all with a ten foot pole without therapy on his part (I'm in it, anyway, right now).

 

I'm pretty sure my attachment is probably messed up somehow too, I'm just not sure how. I know that I don't push people away, at least.

 

I apologize , I would try to say or do something to try and comforts or help you, but righ now it hurts so damn much, I can't really think straight.

 

Oh Anya, here is mister Joel Barish going to give you some tough love again. I hope you aren't hurt by what I end up saying.

 

All of your analysis here is you trying to make sense of things because you feel if you understood it all then you could maybe accept it.

 

I get that you feel somehow compelled to fix your ex. You and Monkey can analyze it back and forth but only your ex knows what is really going on inside of him.

 

Let me guess your ex had some "reason" he gave you that he was broken so as to spare your feelings. Anya I bet if you snooped you would find out he is already involved with someone in the way he said he couldn't be with you. (Assume the worst). It's like the old story about a woman getting dumped by a guy because "he wasn't ready to get married"....and a few months later she finds out he is marrying someone. I think that's how it is with your ex.. .for the right person, he is ready for a relationship - no fixing required.

 

You are such a wonderful person Anya. You deserve the right guy who doesn't need fixing, he's right for you already. No assembly required. He will already BE just the way you need him to be.

 

Do you know what made a big difference for me? It was post by Cav who said "assume the worst". It's so easy for me to remember how great my relationship was and how special we were together...if I think like that I will never let go of my feelings for my ex. So I assume the worst:

 

-She loves the new guy more than she loved me.

-She likes the sex with new guy better than she did with me.

-She has inside jokes with him already.

-She likes his family more.

-She goes to the same places with him that we went.

-What she has now is even better than what we had.

 

Basically I try tearing down the relationship in my head instead of trying to "fix" my ex inside my head. It seems to be working for me. Don't worry about fixing your ex Anya, your job is to fix yourself.

Edited October 21, 2013 by JoelBarish

[AnyaNova]

Oh Anya, here is mister Joel Barish going to give you some tough love again. I hope you aren't hurt by what I end up saying.

 

I may be, but it may be that I need to be.

All of your analysis here is you trying to make sense of things because you feel if you understood it all then you could maybe accept it.

 

Agreed. And part of it though, is also finding a way to get my sense of reality validated, and helping me choose one. Because when you are getting that push/pull "I need you so badly, but go away." You have this eternal question of, "which one was the real one." And though, in a real way, they both were, it leaves you very confused. Finding out from someone who has essentially done this, that given the events, it is quite likely that attachment issues were the root, really does help.

 

I get that you feel somehow compelled to fix your ex. You and Monkey can analyze it back and forth but only your ex knows what is really going on inside of him.

 

This too is true. I wish he would tell me, so that I could understand, though I suspect that Monkeymaid is right in saying that he could never actually do this, because he'd be too afraid that once I saw the "real" him that I would leave. Which, if he knew me at all and really thought about it, he'd know I wouldn't. But. Oh well. Its a little late now.

 

Let me guess your ex had some "reason" he gave you that he was broken so as to spare your feelings. Anya I bet if you snooped you would find out he is already involved with someone in the way he said he couldn't be with you. (Assume the worst). It's like the old story about a woman getting dumped by a guy because "he wasn't ready to get married"....and a few months later she finds out he is marrying someone. I think that's how it is with your ex.. .for the right person, he is ready for a relationship - no fixing required.

 

Now, you may be right about him being in a relationship. That I would agree with. Though, they way he told me what he told me, and the actions surrounding it (I actually asked him at the time to leave his okcupid profile up, to be open to relationships, he took it down and hasn't put up a new one, as far as I can tell), and the extreme emotional turmoil (he told me that every time he got a message or a text, he was terrified that it would be negative somehow, and he would just be so anxious and worry until he had a chance to really read it. etc), I think he actually is probably going without a relationship (I mean consider, before me he hadn't had one since high-school). But, you are right, for my healing and moving on, it is best to probably imagine that this is so, that he is in one.

 

However, given the depth of his issues, and the extreme fear of abandonment, without therapy, there is really no one that he would be ready to be in a relationship with, except perhaps Monkeymaid's suggesting of a vacuous gold digger who won't get too deep or really cause him to feel much of anything. Because, once those primal fears got activated, he will leave again. He will end it, because it will be too much. Experiencing that kind of love will make him feel too vulnerable and he won't be able to risk the pain that might accompany abandonment.

 

You are such a wonderful person Anya. You deserve the right guy who doesn't need fixing, he's right for you already. No assembly required. He will already BE just the way you need him to be.

 

I grow a little jaded in my ability to find said person. I am very shy in real life, in the places I go in real life, there were really only 2 possibilities (1 really, because the 1 who was younger wouldn't date older women and has since moved away), and the other is of the same Myers-Briggs type as my ex. Which, on its own, wouldn't mean much, but I do suspect given the various interplays, that this type is the least able to defend themselves against parental boundary incursions and violations.

 

Do you know what made a big difference for me? It was post by Cav who said "assume the worst". It's so easy for me to remember how great my relationship was and how special we were together...if I think like that I will never let go of my feelings for my ex. So I assume the worst:

 

Good advice.

 

-She loves the new guy more than she loved me.

-She likes the sex with new guy better than she did with me.

-She has inside jokes with him already.

-She likes his family more.

-She goes to the same places with him that we went.

-What she has now is even better than what we had.

 

Basically I try tearing down the relationship in my head instead of trying to "fix" my ex inside my head. It seems to be working for me. Don't worry about fixing your ex Anya, your job is to fix yourself.

 

I know this. And I would like to clarify, because for me its not so much about "me fixing them" but rather "me being there and helping out where I can while they fix themselves" I just like to see everyone being the best them that they can possibly be.

 

I wish that someday I could find out how he's doing. But I know in my gut all I am ever going to get is deafening silence. And it makes me feel like I did something wrong, somehow. I know I didn't, ok, other than some posts on facebook right after september 6th, when I was still in the "really crazy" stage of the relationship's ultimate dissolution.

 

But ultimately, both you and Monkeymaid are right. To heal, I have to assume that whatever he felt that night, however much he loved me then, that he does not now.

[JoelBarish]

Oops I replied to you on the Post Here thread. You have a good heart and I see that you truly want him to work through his problems. You may one day find out that he has done so but I think you need to heal more before that happens. Wouldn't you feel bad if you found out that in the short time you have been apart, he fixed his issues and moved on already? It may be best to assume that is the case but you don't need to be confronted with the pain you would feel if you actually found out.

[AnyaNova]

Oops I replied to you on the Post Here thread. You have a good heart and I see that you truly want him to work through his problems. You may one day find out that he has done so but I think you need to heal more before that happens. Wouldn't you feel bad if you found out that in the short time you have been apart, he fixed his issues and moved on already? It may be best to assume that is the case but you don't need to be confronted with the pain you would feel if you actually found out.

 

Yeah, that would not be good. Just loathing the silence and wondering how people seem to be able to so quickly rewrite their hearts, to be so cold.

[im_thedude]

Gosh, I could use someone to cuddle with right now. Sounds so nice

[AnyaNova]

Gosh, I could use someone to cuddle with right now. Sounds so nice

 

Oh, boy, I know that feeling like every day. Thing is, I actually tried, when a guy friend (my previous ex? ex once removed?) visited me, a friends with cuddle benefits (and cuddle benefits only!) thing. And it helped and it was nice. But it was not the same at all.

 

There is nothing like cuddling with and making out with a significant other. Nothing in the world.

 

I really want a boyfriend right now. But the trick is, it has to be someone that I really connect with intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually, or it is not there at all, and touch is so powerful for me that I can only share it with a very given few and it takes time for me to get to know someone well enough to trust them in that manner.

 

Cuddles. I misses them. And I must be tired because again I've reverted to kitteh speak. :-p

[JustaRegularGuyZ]

Oh, boy, I know that feeling like every day. Thing is, I actually tried, when a guy friend (my previous ex? ex once removed?) visited me, a friends with cuddle benefits (and cuddle benefits only!) thing. And it helped and it was nice. But it was not the same at all.

 

There is nothing like cuddling with and making out with a significant other. Nothing in the world.

 

I really want a boyfriend right now. But the trick is, it has to be someone that I really connect with intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually, or it is not there at all, and touch is so powerful for me that I can only share it with a very given few and it takes time for me to get to know someone well enough to trust them in that manner.

 

Cuddles. I misses them. And I must be tired because again I've reverted to kitteh speak. :-p

 

Lol You are adorable Anya. I really like girls with girly side to them.

[AnyaNova]

Lol You are adorable Anya. I really like girls with girly side to them.

 

Awwww. :-). Thank you.

 

The funny thing is, is that in real life, if you knew me, and weren't my SO or someone I was very sure I'd like to be my SO, you would never see this side of me. :-).

 

but thank you. :-)