So many thoughts!

[Millhouse]

Hello everyone.

 

I have just discovered this site and it has a massive wealth of knowledge. I have been toying with posting, but here goes.

 

The short version of the life history is that we met at university and were good friends that started to date. We share the same sense of humour and there was not a day that went by where we did not laugh. Our relationship was built on this and not passion.

 

My wife has suffered depression over the years and I supported here through all of this. We have basically lived as a two/three person family all this time and have never really made any friends. The lack of friends is with her and her unwillingness to make friends. I would love to have more friends.

 

We do (well did) date nights once a week but conversation inevitably was about our son. Date nights really became practical nights out where we went for dinner. I occasionally see some friends through my hobby but it annoys her when I send the morning of one day of the weekend doing my hobby.

 

Over the last couple of years I have been having lots of negative thoughts about our relationship and if I can continue. We are not intimate (I can't recall when we last kissed – maybe years ago?) and she allows me to have duty sex around once a month - it is clear that she does not enjoy it. I’m not really sure if she ever did. The lack of intimacy (including holding hands, cuddling etc.) has been killing me recently. We are simply living as Brother and Sister while bringing up our son – she sometimes masturbates and will tell me when she has (she knows I’d love to watch or join in, but no). I masturbate daily as a result.

 

She was not a natural mother (or be father to be honest) but we have grown to be excellent parents and have a smashing kid. We do this in a very comfortable well provided for life.

 

I have raised the lack of intimacy issue a number of times (in argument and not in argument) and it’s been met with further rejection. She also rejects any new ideas that I have for things we can do (e.g. going to the beach, exercise, new restaurants etc.) It always seems that I’m having to coach her into doing stuff or any change. She is happy to watch TV every night until she falls asleep on the sofa (so as to avoid anything with me – she has admitted to his. Early nights need to be planned several days in advance and she will do her best to stay up avoiding it). She has ups and downs but the downs are becoming longer and deeper than ever.

 

I’m not clean in this. Faced with the rejection I have stopped trying and more recently would happily spend the evenings on the laptop. We have tried putting on films and cuddling on the sofa (this normally results in a disagreement on the film and me agreeing to watch some crap that she then proceeds to sleep through).

 

I sometimes travel with work and have discovered that people are willing and interested to be intimate with me. I have had a few one night stands on business trips as I simply couldn't hold it back anymore (She does not know about this). While I know that these people are not long-term replacements they have given me the confidence to speak up and seriously question my life.

 

We are basically arguing all of the time and I’ve been walking on egg shells for fear of saying anything for the past couple of years. She has anger issues with me and our son.

 

My best friend went through the same and left his wife 3 years ago. I remember thinking how lucky he was. The problem I have is that if we separate she will move and I’ll see my son only 4/5 times a year. This is tough for me to take.

 

I want my wife to me happy – clearly I’m not doing this anymore. I also want to be happy and see a new life (albeit a scary uncertain one) ahead of me with someone who will be intimate with me.

 

So, why am I here? I told her about 2 months ago that I want out. Due to practical reasons we are still in the same house (and bed). I’m buying her a house and an apartment. The idea being the house is hers, the apartment gives income that will be given to my son later. which also gives enough time for her to finish a training course.

 

Since telling her that I want out, things have never been better. She is up! While we have no intimacy all of the arguments have stopped – we laugh and joke again like the good old days. She blew up once (at my son) and I left the room – she knew what she did and came to apologize after. I have found her crying a few times and she says she loves me. I hate hurting her but I can’t live without intimacy anymore. I fear leaving my son and that he will grow to hate me. My wife and I will remain friends for sure.

 

I don’t want to go to counseling. In some ways, I have made my decision but I live in fear that I am making the wrong one. My best friend (and my mum) has told me that there is basically no right decision here. I am not bitter or angry with her, but have started to resent her due to the lack of intimacy. I feel like I'm living in a bad dream right now.

 

About me: I’m highly educated, well paid and come from a broken home. My parent’s divorce took many years and was very violent. I have seen truly unthinkable things and I hate my father (but still keep in contact him). Everytime my wife shouts and screams I get taken back to my childhood. I have told her this many times. I’m crying as I write this and I want to protect my son from the same.

Edited October 27, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Assasda]

Your wife can probably sense that you cheated on her.

Even though you may think she doesnt know, she can sense it.

 

You did her wrong.

You should open up and tell her before the divorce, you seem like a good man, keep on being good

[Millhouse]

Your wife can probably sense that you cheated on her.

Even though you may think she doesnt know, she can sense it.

 

You did her wrong.

You should open up and tell her before the divorce, you seem like a good man, keep on being good

 

I would be very surprised. The issues started before that happened anyway.

[Criticality]

 

I don’t want to go to counseling. In some ways, I have made my decision but I live in fear that I am making the wrong one. My best friend (and my mum) has told me that there is basically no right decision here. I am not bitter or angry with her, but have started to resent her due to the lack of intimacy. I feel like I'm living in a bad dream right now.

 

Welcome Milhouse!

 

I feel for you. It's a tough situation, and like your mother said, there are no wrong choices.

 

Neither of you have done anything wrong. Just the circumstances, your age difference perhaps, and a relationship that slowly fizzled into a friendship.

 

The good part is that you're friends. As you should be. You have a joint project in the form of your kid, and neither of you have done anything significant to hurt the other.

 

Just that fact means that you're blessed compared to many other people, whose marriage is falling apart.

 

But let me ask you, where do you see yourself in ten years? You want more kids? I take it you want to stay in Dubai, and you're worried about not seeing your kid more. Does she work, and would she mind staying in Dubai?

 

Could you live in the relationship as it is now, but where it's more open, meaning that you live together as friends and parents, but you can have a girlfriend or one night thing on the side?

 

Those are the things that could be helpful to hear some more about, if you want some opinions.

 

You say that marital counseling isn't an option. And I don't blame you. It sounds like the damage has been done. And both of you are at an age where it might make more sense to move on, rather than invest a year or several years into something that might not work any ways.

 

I guess it's always something, that your son is, or will soon be, at an age, where he could travel by himself to come see you. (airlines offer assistance to kids, usually starting age 6-7) or stay with you for extended periods, weeks or months, at a time.

 

Good luck, and lets hear some more about your situation!

Edited October 27, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Millhouse]

Welcome Milhouse!

 

I feel for you. It's a tough situation, and like your mother said, there are no wrong choices.

...

Good luck, and lets hear some more about your situation!

 

Thank you, Criticality for your balanced views and interest.

 

To answer your 10 year question - I do not know. But, I know that I do not want anymore children. I love my son and he is the best thing to ever have come into my life. Kids, sadly, put enormous pressure on the relationship and I do not wish to impose that on me or anyone else again.

 

I also know that I probably will not stay where I'm at forever (although if we do split then I will have to stay a while to make up the income). Hence I'm looking into a black hole of a future. I won't be lonely, but I also know that any relationship that starts here is probably not going to be long-term (simply cultural differences etc).

 

In terms of living as friends but with lovers on the side, I don't really see he point in doing that. Staying together for my son? It would be artificial and I'm sure that we would fight more if that was the case. It simply wouldn't work out. I want to be with someone, not in a short-term stop-gap. I also don't want to stay just for comfort.

 

You may be right that the age difference may be at fault here. We have never ever felt it before, but it could be a reason. We have discussed this and I still feel that it isn't the reason. I would be deeply sorry if this is the reason.

 

My fear is that if we stay on for 10 years for my son, he won't really thank us and it's 10 more years of friendship and a separation at an age when we are both a lot older and less able to move on.

 

You are right about the flights - I have suggest this and she would be open to that idea in a couple of years.

 

She told me that she feels that she has blown it. I have told her that it's certainly a two-way failure and I'm equally at fault. I have done wrong and I know that - but equally, I have done this after a lot of rejection.

 

What is interesting is that in the summer when I visited home, my mum's boyfriend noticed that I was unhappy but couldn't pin-point it.

 

All of this has come out as a shock to my wife. This year, we bought two new cars and two apartments. All the time I was thinking 'one each' - she probably thought we were all good.

 

This is how strange it all is, we spend the evenings jointly looking at houses and I will lead the purchase. I'm also having a lot of say in the actual area etc.

 

We spend the summers apart. This summer I did a lot of thinking and the rot really took hold in my head - it is also the first time I spoke to someone about it. I was asked if I still loved her and where before I would have said yes immediately, I sighed and thought before saying yes.

 

Before the summer we had an argument where she said to me 'I feel like I'm living your life and I want ...' She never did finish that sentence but it killed me.

 

I did not miss her during the summer and really viewed it as a trial separation. What is bad is that she also did a lot of thinking over the summer and has came back full of energy/ positivity (something that I've not seen for years).

Edited October 27, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[dienstag]

Ok, i have just finished reading your post and it sounds fascinating:-) in a good way

You dont love each other anymore, you have no financial need to stay together, you personally have exciting professional life - the only thing that is keeping you/stopping you is your son and your relationship to him, right? Well... it is better for any child to stay with mother (i mean considering she is normal and not on drugs or drinks). You will ALWAYS be a father to your son - whether you will be a good father or the one that the boy will hate - depends fully on YOU. Irrespective of your personal life. Being a father is a big role, a job if you want. When the parents part it takes extra effort to ensure that the vital relationship between you and your son stay. I will stop here as you clearly get my point.

As for the marriage and your wife - it is over. I do not know the details enough to pin point it but it is a fact, accept it and move on.

I am myself in a very similar situation - where we moved abroad, had a child (turned out 2, i mean twins:-) ) and we are now separated with full intention of divorce once back to the uk next year. Due to children we are planning our move together and very coordinated, although to separate addresses. Reason for divorce i would give the same - lack of intimacy, except he could not admit it until i found pictures with him cheating, turned out he was doing it for 10 years, for the same reasons you gave above.

As a conclusion - we are all individuals with unique lifes bla-bla and yet there are so many patterns and similarities:-)

Edited October 23, 2013 by dienstag

[Millhouse]

Ok, i have just finished reading your post and it sounds fascinating:-) in a good way

You dont love each other anymore, you have no financial need to stay together, you personally have exciting professional life - the only thing that is keeping you/stopping you is your son and your relationship to him, right? Well... it is better for any child to stay with mother (i mean considering she is normal and not on drugs or drinks). You will ALWAYS be a father to your son - whether you will be a good father or the one that the boy will hate - depends fully on YOU. Irrespective of your personal life. Being a father is a big role, a job if you want. When the parents part it takes extra effort to ensure that the vital relationship between you and your son stay. I will stop here as you clearly get my point.

As for the marriage and your wife - it is over. I do not know the details enough to pin point it but it is a fact, accept it and move on.

I am myself in a very similar situation - where we moved abroad, had a child (turned out 2, i mean twins:-) ) and we are now separated with full intention of divorce once back to the uk next year. Due to children we are planning our move together and very coordinated, although to separate addresses. Reason for divorce i would give the same - lack of intimacy, except he could not admit it until i found pictures with him cheating, turned out he was doing it for 10 years, for the same reasons you gave above.

As a conclusion - we are all individuals with unique lifes bla-bla and yet there are so many patterns and similarities:-)

 

Thank you, Dienstag. Much appreciated.

 

I was thinking about my life on the drive to work today. I still get really upset at the thought of what is happening. But it's almost that the more upset I get the more inevitable it becomes.

 

Can I ask in your relationship who (you feel) started to stop the intimacy? Was it you or him?

 

In my case, I've always literally had to do the leading. She has only initiated kissing or sex about 5 times in the whole relationship - it's always been me. She is't a touchy person, whereas I am. I love giving massages (even if no sex is coming) but I'm not allowed to do that either She has admitted to me recently that she would withold this sort of thing from me, but then feel bad about it after (??!)

 

My problem is that sometime in the past we did used to do this stuff, but I can't pinpoint a time or event when it stopped. It was probably before we became parents. I have no idea how to restart this and frankly I'm not sure I really want to anymore.

 

My wife has periods of highs and lows. She is clearly on a high right now which makes it all the worse. When she is on a high there really is no one else I would rather be with. We went to a comedy show last night and had a great time. The highs, sadly, are not so frequent these days.

 

My intention right now would be to visit the UK as much as possible (probably about 4 times a year, each for a week. This is basically all of my annual leave - we have talked about helping with homework over facetime etc. That would be quite good as the time difference would allow that (something that is not possible now for instance as I'm at work during homework time).

Edited October 24, 2013 by Millhouse

[dienstag]

Hey Millhouse. You know what? Your story and questions made me think very far back...12 years or so... a place in my memory i have not visited for a while

After the first few years I noticed that we were turning more into friends than lovers, i mean the main reason i felt so comfortable getting married to this man was that we had so much in common and had very similar views on life and stuff in it. After a few years i got concerned how rarely we have sex so i started intiating it at least once a month in a stuborn attempt refusing to accept the reality. He would play along but it really felt more like duty than fun.

I think it is hard to catch the moment and say there, that's when we lost it.

After a while I gave up as i also have my feelings and my pride (i am attarctive and confident enough and i dont need this extra fighting for what? Love? Attention? Sex?) We talked about it, the intimacy issues, lack of sex or sex drive, that i feel like his mate and not a woman- but nothing really changed. We were busy with our lifes and we simply stayed married. We moved abroad, both had great jobs etc and then came the kids:-)

It was not all miserable, dont get me wrong - we were great together as friends but as relationship partners / (lovers?) that kiss for fun, hold hands or cuddle in front of tv? No

We talked about divorce but i could not bring myself to leave him until the photos and then all the puzzle pieces came to one big horrible picture and 12 lost years. I made him move out within a week and now a few months down the line i know this step was overdue for a while.

I still have time when i feel sad or angry as going through various stages after long term relationship is normal and it takes time. I am not proclaiming here we should all get divorced and be happy but this is your life and you need to take control over and do what is best for you and those you love. I did not want my children to grow around a mother that is always miserable, frustrated and angry and i do not want to be that mother or woman. That was my choice.

Good luck and embrace that if you choose to leave it will take you a while to recover and move on with your life. We are all just humans, right:-)

Ps: love massages - in my time i even bought special oils as thought it would be great fun - sadly it never worked:laugh:

Pps: totally agree - kids are a bomb for the relationship, you need to have skills to survive:-)

[dienstag]

Now to you. Of course you feel sad - this is normal. Dont drown in it. Make up your mind what to do and stick to the plan.

If you want to give it another try - give it your best so as not to have regrets or feelings that you could have done more or try one more time. Think what should be improved from your perspective, talk it through and do it. Marriage counceling? Holiday break together with your son spending a week at grandparents? Or whatever - just do it, dont wait and be misearble.

If you made up your mind to leave - than stick to it, dont dwell on how maybe you could still...close the door. think what are you going to do with yourself? How are you going to get your piece of mind back? What could it be? What could make you happy? And the main one - what should be done in order to keep and develop the relationship with your son ?

Keep busy:-)

Edited October 24, 2013 by dienstag

[Millhouse]

Now to you. Of course you feel sad - this is normal. Dont drown in it. Make up your mind what to do and stick to the plan.

If you want to give it another try - give it your best so as not to have regrets or feelings that you could have done more or try one more time. Think what should be improved from your perspective, talk it through and do it. Marriage counceling? Holiday break together with your son spending a week at grandparents? Or whatever - just do it, dont wait and be misearble.

If you made up your mind to leave - than stick to it, dont dwell on how maybe you could still...close the door. think what are you going to do with yourself? How are you going to get your piece of mind back? What could it be? What could make you happy? And the main one - what should be done in order to keep and develop the relationship with your son ?

Keep busy:-)

 

Hi Dienstag - thanks again for your helpful posts!

 

Your story reads very similar to mine. Neither party really at fault, no passion and just grown into a solid friendship. While we have had some terrible lows, the highs are pretty OK and we have shared nice things together. The sad thing is that in about 30 years time what we have is probably what we'll both want.

 

We never hold hands. We did it for the first time in well over a few years on holiday about 4 months ago. Strange - I really love all that too. It was me to who initiated it.

 

As for 'just us' holidays - I've tried that, the answer was no. Believe it or not we have a full time live in nanny so these things should be easy. Apparently she feels guilty if not with my son and won't leave him. I even try and take her on nights out, or get her to go out with friends on her own to spice up her life. In general it's a no.

 

I've spent many a night going to bed furious that our planned early night didn't happen as she was watching TV shows back to back and then falling asleep. I just feel like a good friend who shares an identical sense of humour than anything else. Then on top of that her (quite newly acquired) very short temper, inability to reconcile and negative focus on stuff has just worn me out.

 

Anyway - after a teary weekend and some bickering we have jointly decided that while it's sad, it solves a lot of problems. She can see her parents get old, my son can get to know his grandparents/ cousins and we'll (hopefully) stop arguing. I told her before that to save the friendship we have to get rid of the relationship. Sad but true I think.

 

I'm scared of the future -

 

PS> on the kids - we once talked about having another and concluded that our relationship wasn't strong enough to deal with another...

Edited October 27, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[dienstag]

Saving the friendship? - good luck with that. There is a stage of separation where you start blaming your ex for everything. I prefer to close the door on the past and move on - no emotional connections, only practical issues concerning kids.

Future? I am confident it will work out and will be better than the present, otherwise why are we all here in the middle of changing our lifes?