I want my husband to be more independent

[GirlOnTheBlock]

Alright, so there's something I've had severe discussions about with my husband lately, and it doesn't seem to lead anywhere. It's about the way we spend time together, but also about a major difference in the life we see before us. Let's first give some background.

 

When I met him, I was seventeen and he was twenty years old. We were both in college (or at least, the Dutch equivalent of it), so we were on the same level, so to speak. But as years went by, I graduated and started my own business, while he dropped out and took an underpaid job - that made him happy nonetheless. Earlier this year, he got fired and he hasn't found anything new yet.

 

The main problem for me is that it doesn't look like he is trying. He says he looks for job openings, and I believe he does, but if I were in his shoes, I would do a lot more and broaden my search. Maybe start up a business, consider moving to another city, anything - I'm very willing to go along if this would happen. He doesn't want it though. He's looking for a 20-hour workweek because he hates getting up early (says he's worth nothing if he does). Mind you: at the same time, I'm working 50-hour weeks because I have a successful business.

 

That is also part of our problem. After long workdays, I want to visit friends, read a book, or anything else that I enjoy. Of course I also hang out with him. We spend 5 out of 7 evenings together on average, and I try to keep as much of the weekends free as possible. (Sometimes I have to work on weekend days. It can't be helped; the workload differs from week to week.) Still, he finds I spend too much time working and doing things that I enjoy on my own, and not enough with him. He then accuses me of not giving him enough attention and this makes me feel really guilty, but I also think that if he had more of his own stuff to do, it wouldn't be such a big problem. Aside from not working at the moment, he has no significant hobbies or other out-of-home activities. I wouldn't mind at all if he did some sort of volunteer work, for example. It's not about him making money - not for now, at least, because I make enough of that.

 

When I brought up the fact that I would like to have some time on my hands in our house without him being there, he got angry. He said something in the lines of: "If you want to be alone so badly, why are you with me." I found it really hard to explain that I don't want to be alone all the time, but that I simply want some alone time that I don't have to feel guilty about, in which I don't have to explain what I'm doing.

 

The feeling is getting stronger and stronger that this is not something I can put up with much longer. I want him to lead his own life. He says he feels no need to take up hobbies or spend time outside of the house without me, but I can't cope with that.

 

How can I get him to become less demanding and more independent? Any advice would be welcome, 'cause I'm not seeing it myself. Thank you in advance for anything helpful...

[Criticality]

Tough one... Print out this and show it to him:

 

Wake the hell up buddy!

Having some time just by yourself is not an unreasonable demand for your wife to make. It doesn't mean she doesn't love you, or doesn't like spending time with you as well. What it does mean, is that she has the same basic need for a little alone time like everyone else, something you get when she's at work. By not giving her a little space, you're basically turning spending time with you, into another job and chore for her, instead of something to look forward to.

 

By turning the tables on her, accusing her of being selfish, and bringing up "Why did you marry me, if you want time alone?" You're only making a divorce more likely, and more appealing.

 

Chances are that you'll find out real soon, that she likes that alternative a hell of a lot nicer, than you do.

[Criticality]

But doesn't he have any hobbies? Any friends? Could he suffer from depression?

 

I recently saw a study, that showed that men who go out with their friends twice a week, have happier marriages and the marriage is less likely to end up in divorce, than in the case of the men that don't.

 

What did he study at college? Has he ever had any hobbies?

[Assasda]

Sounds like you might just have to leave him.

Needy... not very good

Unambitious....terrible.

 

Do what you have to do

[GirlOnTheBlock]

But doesn't he have any hobbies? Any friends? Could he suffer from depression?

 

I recently saw a study, that showed that men who go out with their friends twice a week, have happier marriages and the marriage is less likely to end up in divorce, than in the case of the men that don't.

 

What did he study at college? Has he ever had any hobbies?

 

I don't know... he might be. I'm just not sure. I could definitely ask him this. He does have some friends, but they all live in different cities, so he doesn't see them very often. Actually come to think of it, it's kind of the same thing as with me: he wants them to come to him, feels that he has already invested a lot in them and they don't put in the effort to spend time with him. (Does this make any sense? I find it hard to explain the situation.)

 

He definitely wants to hang out more with friends and I know he misses this, but I don't know what I can do (or he can do) to improve his friendships or make new friends.

 

He studied social work. He didn't finish this and doesn't want to pursue a career in this field. When I asked him what he wanted, he said he's interested in green energy, car manufacturing, and working with the elderly (somewhat related to social work). Yet he has no education in these fields and I don't think he wants to get back into college.

 

I think his biggest hobby is our house. He spends a lot of time trying to improve it, for instance with a solar energy installation (which we have now).

 

Thank you, also, for your first reply. It brought tears to my eyes, but I know there is a lot of truth in it. I'll contemplate a bit if I want to show him your exact words, or try to tell him in my own way.

[GirlOnTheBlock]

Sounds like you might just have to leave him.

Needy... not very good

Unambitious....terrible.

 

Do what you have to do

 

I agree with you that the neediness and lack of ambition are not good, but I can't just leave him. What I didn't mention, but is very true, is that we have a lot of fun when we do spend time together, and I love him a lot-lot-lot. It hurts like hell to even think about leaving. Is that what I 'have to do'? I find that very, very hard to accept. I don't know if I'm even capable of it. Even though, as Criticality pointed out, he obviously gave me a window. I think I should first ask him why he did that.

[Grumpybutfun]

GOTB:

He is a taker. By doing everything, you have accepted that from him. No one balks at their spouse needing time alone, or asks for more when they are supporting them financially unless he is a taker. He has no ambition, and you are supporting him, so he doesn't have to do anything. Time to set some boundaries and tell him what you want and expect with clear and concise language. This is unfair to you, and it is something that will cause resentment and disrespect for him down the years. He either gets up and does what you need to pull his weight, or you move on. Having a grown assed man as a child is unacceptable.

Best,

Grumps

[Criticality]

I agree with you that the neediness and lack of ambition are not good, but I can't just leave him. What I didn't mention, but is very true, is that we have a lot of fun when we do spend time together, and I love him a lot-lot-lot. It hurts like hell to even think about leaving. Is that what I 'have to do'? I find that very, very hard to accept. I don't know if I'm even capable of it. Even though, as Criticality pointed out, he obviously gave me a window. I think I should first ask him why he did that.

 

I really don't think it means much except he's hurt, he feels like you're rejecting him and its a way to lash out.

 

A guy who wants out of the marriage doesn't spend time fiddling with the house, putting up solar installations.

[Criticality]

Green energy and car manufacturing? In the Netherlands? Without an engineering degree? Maybe he could work on cold fusion too in the weekends?

 

How are you two with kids anyways? Cause it sounds like he might make a good candidate for a stay at home dad. It's a lot harder to be unmotivated and sleep in when its with your own kids, and he'll be so tired by the end of the day or week that he can't wait to get out and have some time by himself.

 

(Yes, I was joking... But only halfway cause well... You love him, you have a good time most of the time, you're at an age where its only natural to start thinking in terms of family, and while a motivated working woman such as yourself and a man more interested in fiddling around the house isn't a good match, a motivated, working woman and a guy taking care of the house and kids can be a really good one. Heck, many times when a marriage ends in divorce, the chief complaint from the wife is that the husband spends too much time at work. So may be careful what you wish for, in terms of a motivated, working husband. You also sound like the kind of independent, intelligent woman who doesn't mind that you're not being taken care of financially by a man.)

 

Whichever way you choose to arrange your guys life, just keep in mind that having hobbies and doing something outside the house is only a good thing. Even a stay at home dad needs to have hobbies and friends outside the house.

 

A thing he might want to try, is to be a, don't know the English word for it, in Scandinavia we call it a "visiting friend". I tried it one time through the local Red Cross, basically its somebody who visits elderly, lonely people for a couple of hours at a time, make some coffee and maybe clean a little, but mostly keep them company, and hear about how everything was better in the old days, and about the time they worked as a vacuum salesman in Eindhoven

 

It's unpaid, you do it as many hours of the week you want to, and if he wants to do social stuff with the elderly it's a start...

[Ninjainpajamas]

Usually after you lose your job you can fall into a rut and become lazy if you don't get out there and stay motivated, it can be a blow to your confidence once you get fired/layed off from your job. Maybe he just told himself he was going to take a few weeks off or so then get back out there but that didn't happen.

 

Chances are however he is going through and feeling some insecurity within this relationship, you're a successful and motivated woman and he's just sitting around at the house, that has to affect him. Being alone all day and with nothing to do makes you the center of his life and happiness, he's become dependent on you and he's probably feeling a bit vulnerable with you prioritizing these things in your life and he might feel like he's just in the backdrop somewhere, so him wanting to be around you can just be a sign he wants to feel important and maintain that relevance in your life for his own peace of mind.

 

I have to speculate of course because I know nothing about your husband, but I know how men work and having not completed his degree and lost this job he likes has to have given him a blow to his self-esteem.

 

So in a way, you could be like that skinny person with that fat person, you don't motivate the skinny person just by being skinny, it just makes them feel even more fat...makes them feel worse about themselves.

 

Now this is not your issue/problem in terms of you being successful and having a busy life, that's your prerogative and you should continue doing so, you shouldn't let him hold you emotionally hostage for the things you're doing to further your life....however, if that continues then it will start to scratch away at you slowly and make you under perform and sacrifice your own personal time just to satiate his insecurity and neediness/dependency...which in the end, isn't going to fix the problem, he has to get motivated and you have to talk about what he's going through emotionally and put feelings out there on the open, you need a really transparent and open conversation, and you can't attack each other on this and say well this and that to defend yourself, it just has to be heard more than fixed at that time.

 

There is a deeper underlying issue with his life and lack of motivation, that are separate from this marriage, he may very well be the wrong kind of guy for you in the end...compatibility might not be there, takes more than love and having fun together to be happy, even though a lot of people like to think "well if i could only fix this! things would be perfect!" it just doesn't work that way, it's got to be the whole package, this will weigh down more and more until you just actually try to give him what he wants and needs and it'll get you nowhere but feeling held back and dragged down.

 

He's got to be open and willing to change and improve his life, don't try and motivate him with your words...don't tell him what to do and make these suggestions, that's the worst thing you can do to someone because these are things he already knows, if he really wanted to do that he'd be out there...so yes, you'll have to accept that situation for now, he's got to motivate himself...the only thing you can really do is communicate and find out the real underlying problem/emotion that is keeping him from doing more...but do not play mom or guidance counselor, once you've made suggestion consider it noted even if he doesn't respond.

 

If you need personal time and space, I'd suggest traveling to visit a friend or planning a get away, something relaxing where you can get a spa, relax in a hotel room with room service or whatever it takes for you to unwind, a massage and whatever (just make sure he's not a stud), then do what you need that let's you diffuse and relieve pressure, don't force just to take it and don't let him stop you or threaten you with passive aggressive remarks and the like just to pull you back in, you have to realize he's just manipulating you in those situations and being selfish, but this guys got to look in the mirror and you need to make sure to take care of yourself.

[GirlOnTheBlock]

Green energy and car manufacturing? In the Netherlands? Without an engineering degree? Maybe he could work on cold fusion too in the weekends?

 

I know... this is nothing serious. I think he's interested in these things, but does not really want to pursue it professionally.

 

How are you two with kids anyways? Cause it sounds like he might make a good candidate for a stay at home dad. It's a lot harder to be unmotivated and sleep in when its with your own kids, and he'll be so tired by the end of the day or week that he can't wait to get out and have some time by himself.

We're actually thinking about having kids. It's on a bit of a hold because of the struggles (and because I'm not the type that gets pregnant easily), though I do think you are right: he is an awesome candidate for stay at home dad. I was slightly worried that he would not be motivated for getting up early for a kid either, but as you point out, that makes no sense.

 

(Yes, I was joking... But only halfway cause well... You love him, you have a good time most of the time, you're at an age where its only natural to start thinking in terms of family, and while a motivated working woman such as yourself and a man more interested in fiddling around the house isn't a good match, a motivated, working woman and a guy taking care of the house and kids can be a really good one. Heck, many times when a marriage ends in divorce, the chief complaint from the wife is that the husband spends too much time at work. So may be careful what you wish for, in terms of a motivated, working husband. You also sound like the kind of independent, intelligent woman who doesn't mind that you're not being taken care of financially by a man.)

This made me smile. Be careful what you wish for... I don't even really know what I wish for. Or yes, I do: for a husband who has his "own business" (be it a job or whatever other type of business) and gives me the space to mind my own as well. You're right; I don't care that he doesn't take care of me financially. At the risk of sounding overly feminist: I can take care of myself financially (and him). Which is funny, because I'm not in it for the money. I'm simply passionate about my work.

 

And yes, you are right again, it would be a bummer if he gets a high-flying job and once we have kids, I should switch to some part-time job. Ouch.

 

Whichever way you choose to arrange your guys life, just keep in mind that having hobbies and doing something outside the house is only a good thing. Even a stay at home dad needs to have hobbies and friends outside the house.

 

A thing he might want to try, is to be a, don't know the English word for it, in Scandinavia we call it a "visiting friend". I tried it one time through the local Red Cross, basically its somebody who visits elderly, lonely people for a couple of hours at a time, make some coffee and maybe clean a little, but mostly keep them company, and hear about how everything was better in the old days, and about the time they worked as a vacuum salesman in Eindhoven

 

It's unpaid, you do it as many hours of the week you want to, and if he wants to do social stuff with the elderly it's a start...

I think something in the lines of this would be perfect for him. Since we don't have children yet and none coming along for at least the next nine months, I still think it would be good for him to have some activities that nourish his interests, working with people. I'll be sure to bring this up.

 

Thank you so much for all your time, your suggestions and your honesty. I'm actually a lot calmer now because I see some perspective again and got a clearer view of what it is exactly that bothers me.

[crederer]

The economy is really bad right now. It's hard to find a job that's more than minimum wage, and a lot of times these employers wont hire you because you are overqualified.

 

Also, starting a business is tough to do with no stream of income. A bank likely wont want to give you a loan in these circumstances, unless he has a near perfect credit rating.

[crederer]

Jeeze, whoknows, you're coming off a little strong there.

 

I agree, guy needs to get his act together. The reality is, in this day and age, you need to network in order to find a job. Taking up hobbies where he meets people is in fact a good way to make connections and find employment (either directly, or indirectly).