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15 year marriage hanging by a thread...


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This is my first post to the site. I have been silently reading everyone else's story looking for support, but realized I needed to post my own story if I was going to get some good advise to start moving forward..

 

We met in College 20 years ago. For me it was love at first site, we became best friends. I never asked for a "romantic" connection, as I felt I was not her type. She married a frat boy and moved to Houston, and we stopped talking for a few years. Fast forward, to 2000 and she calls out of the blue single, and wanting to hang out. Our relationship grew quickly and she moved in a month before her divorce was final. We married quickly as she has Chrones and needed to get under my insurance policy.

 

Everything was going well, then I lost my job in 2001 and even though I had a new job making more money 30 days later, our financial stability began to collapse. Four days after our first child, we were bankrupt. We started to rebuiild finances, and her health. We moved, changed jobs again, and then my Father died. When this happened, my two step brothers, grandmother, aunt, and cousins, all told me and my mom to go F#@@ ourselves, that they didn't want us in their family anymore. I thought I was being strong, by absorbing all this, and holding my mom and, wife, and kids together with my strenght. What I did not know, was that I was burying resintment that would ultimatly be our undoing.

 

We had our second child and I quit my job and started my own company. My wife supported this, and we borrowed some money from her mom to make it the first year. After 4 years, the business was not supporting the family, I was in denial, and we were almost about to loose another house. I took a part time job and befirended a man there, and he started hanging out with our family a lot. After a year, my wife and I decided to have a threesome with him. (my idea) It was fun, and it continiued for a few months. As you can probably guess, the fun turned to horror, when I found out they had fallen in love and were doing things without my knowledge. I asked for this to stop, but they continued to the point that I caught them in a hotel room.

 

I confronted them (with my girls in the car) and told my wife not to come home. She was furious that the girls were there to see what she had done. On top of that, I called her mom, my mom, and told them both what was going on as a desperate cry for help to make it all stop. She stayed gone for three weeks, during which my former friend, told her that I had also strayed two years earlier on one occasion. So this gave my wife justification to keep seeing this man for another two weeks in her hotel while she was "working on our marriage".

 

She came home after I caught her again, for fear her mom or her kids would find out she was still shacking up with this other man. We are now in IC and MC and she says that she doesn't think she can ever go back to our marriage. That me cheating and lying combined with the finance issues is more than she can take. She feels we only bring out the worst in each other and isn't sure that we should even try to work on reconcilliation. The only reason I think she is still around at all is our children.

 

I have taken responsibility for all my failuers, and am sincerly trying to make positive changes. My issue, is that I am not seeing ANY, and I mean ANY accountability, responsibility or even basic respect from her at this point. She is 1000% focused on my failues, and admits that she hasn't even started to think about what she has done to contribute to our situation. At this point, I am trying to cope with the mess we have made without making it worse. I want to emphasize that I WANT RECONCILLIATION. She says it could be a year before we can be romanticly involved again, if ever..

 

So this is where I need help... How do I move on with my life for me and my children, while trying to reconcile with a wife who lives at home, sleeps in another room, and shows little to no desire to resolove, other than MC?

 

Thanks to anyone with an opinion

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Geez Dude! Out of all the stupid things you could have done...a threesome?!?! *facepalm*

 

Okay, seriously, you need to start doing the 180. If you don't know what that is, here it is:

 

  1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
  2. No frequent phone calls.
  3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
  4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
  5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
  6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
  7. Don't ask for reassurances.
  8. Don't buy or give gifts.
  9. Don't schedule dates together.
  10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
  11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
  12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
  13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
  14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
  15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
  16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
  17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
  18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
  19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
  20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
  21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
  22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
  23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
  24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
  25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
  26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
  27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
  28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
  29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
  30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
  31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
  32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
  33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW."

One other thing you have to do is ensure that her affair is over. I strongly suspect that it's still going on, she just learned how to hide it better. Doing the 180 will also help you disengage from the marriage if she starts looking to leave. So, it won't be as painful.

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No reason to blame yourself too much OP.

 

I suppose the threesome might be bugging you, but if it wasn't that guy, it could have been somebody else. Some couples can swing around and do threesomes without a problem. You guys couldn't. But the moment she took it outside of your bedroom and behind your back, that's when it turned into regular infidelity.

 

Anyways, how old are the kids? Reason I'm asking is because it takes two to reconcile, and it doesn't sound like she's making much of an effort. If its a couple of years till they're 16-18 I'd try to stick together and try to tolerate things, till they're old enough where you can get a divorce without feeling too guilty. If its closer to a decade, get a divorce and a house nearby, and either split the kids between you and share custody, or get 50/50 custody and have them stay a week at each place.

Edited by Criticality
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The girls are 7 & 11 and are not at all happy with what is going on. I am working on the 180 within reason, as she still lives at the house, we are sleeping in seprate bedrooms. Her counselor finally convinced her to end all communications with his as of last week. I am not convinced, but I guess we shall see.. She claims that she knows it is the "right thing to do", but she has lied to me so many times about this, that it is hard to believe anything she says about him at this point.

 

I can't explain how I came to the idea that a 3some would help revive the intamcy between us, now that I have come back to planet Earth, it seems like the dumbest idea in the world!! Can't express the guilt I feel, and that is causing me not to think of her actions as a traditional "affair" or standard infedility. On top of that, I cheated once, and have lied about it for years to her, so she feels like this is justified for her to have done it as well.

 

The biggest issue is how to manage the day to day living when she is so mad, and anngry with me that she fumes when we are in the same room. She says she just can't get past the anger and isn't sure if she wants to reconcile. She "wants to want to be here" I am taking that to mean, that she doesn't want to be here, but doesn't want to break up the family and be the "bad guy" in the girls opinion.

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The biggest issue is how to manage the day to day living when she is so mad, and anngry with me that she fumes when we are in the same room.

Why doesn't she have the right to be as mad, frustrated and disappointed with you as you are with her :confused: ???

 

The swinging lifestyle with all its pitfalls was your idea. You both cheated even outside the sexual freedoms that gave you. Part of her angst may be with the fact you seem to have staked out the moral high ground. Plenty of blame to go around...

 

Mr. Lucky

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I agree completly. I am not blaming, moping, yelling, or in any other way bringing up the sexual component. We both are guilty, no doubts. My issue with the anger, is that we have 2 children that are wathcing our every move. I am practicing the 180 and trying to always maintain a chill, happy attitiude while in the house. I think it is pissing her off even more.. Not sure what I should do to help the situation. I am not looking for any type of a "pass", rather a way to help ease the tension while we decide if we can work things out in marriage councelling?

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I am not looking for any type of a "pass", rather a way to help ease the tension while we decide if we can work things out in marriage councelling?

May not be possible given the mess created. And your goals are somewhat contradictory. The 180 is based on the fact that you control only you. So you do the things that help you move forward and (maybe) allow your partner to see you in a different light. I'd stay on that course...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Why doesn't she have the right to be as mad, frustrated and disappointed with you as you are with her :confused: ???

 

The swinging lifestyle with all its pitfalls was your idea. You both cheated even outside the sexual freedoms that gave you. Part of her angst may be with the fact you seem to have staked out the moral high ground. Plenty of blame to go around...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

First of all, read OPs post more carefully. She didn't find out about his cheating until after she was unfaithful. And it certainly sounds like she's using his cheating to retroactively justify her own. And avoiding the fact that she went outside of marriage without knowing about his. She certainly doesn't sound remorseful, though she should be.

 

And secondly: The "swinging was your idea" is as much of a poor excuse for infidelity as the old "but she denied me, and we hadn't had sex for months!"

 

It's no excuse. Zero.

 

He brought up a threesome, she went along with, and proceeded afterwards to trash and break his trust by taking it outside the marriage. It's just as unforgivable as any other infidelity. Whether there was a threesome or not.

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Critically, Yes, she did not know about my infidelity until she was caught in the hotel room and then the stayed with the other man. He then told her about my infidelity that had occured 2 years ago. She is blaming her infidelity on the "swinging" since it was my idea, and using my past affair as the reason she may not want to reconcile.

 

She told me last night that she has still not given any thought to what she has done, and has only focused on my failures. Where I understand to a certain degree, I was hoping that the anger would ease back with MC and IC and after 2 weeks back under the same roof, she would be able to not be so upset and anxious around me. I am interpreting that to mean that she is not interested in reconcilliation at this time. I hope that will change, but I guess I am not all that confident that she wants to change.

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Critically, Yes, she did not know about my infidelity until she was caught in the hotel room and then the stayed with the other man. He then told her about my infidelity that had occured 2 years ago. She is blaming her infidelity on the "swinging" since it was my idea, and using my past affair as the reason she may not want to reconcile.

 

That is such crap... Like blaming the guy who gave you a Snickers for the fact that you robbed the chocolate store the next day.

 

Marriage is trust. When you cheat, you break that trust.

 

A threesome or swinging or whatever, is trusting each other even more. Many people wouldn't go for that, even if they liked the idea, because they don't trust that their marriage could last through it. Your wife abused that trust. End of story.

 

Good luck! I'll write some more, but lets see what other people who know more about 180 might say.

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The trust is gone on both sides, that is for certain. I am a very forgiving person by the grace of God, but she does not appear to be blessed with this character trait. I am thinking it is one of two things..

 

1. She is punishing me for my issues, and her guilt over what she has done, that she says I have caused. "I turned her into this cheating person" even though she cheated on her first husband as well with a co-worker. She did make a smart ass comment "once a cheater always a cheater" but I think that too was a statment of guilt, not a confession of desire.

 

2. She just doesn't love me anymore like she has said in anger, and is only here for the kids.

 

Our MC told me not to make any decisions for at least another month and see if she shows any signs of change or desire to reconcile. It is so hard to live in this sitiation, trying to take care of the girls and be positive for them when they ask if mommy and daddy are going to make it. She stays at work as much as she can, and I have had full responsbility of the girls. The saddest part, is that both our daughters want to live with me if things go south.. I don't think my wife has any idea what she is putting these girls through by being so angry and seperated from the family.

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A threesome or swinging or whatever, is trusting each other even more.

 

Let's just say you and I have different definitions of the word "trust".

 

 

She is blaming her infidelity on the "swinging" since it was my idea, and using my past affair as the reason she may not want to reconcile.

 

Just as wrong and twisted as you proposing a threesome with your friend, having an affair on the side and then being surprised when the whole thing blows up in your face. I'm not defending her, no winners here.

 

She's not posting here. Were she, I'd tell her that she's acting in a manner destructive to any possibility of repairing her marriage if that's her goal. Right now, that's a big "if".

 

I still say stick to your 180. It's your best chance long run. And understand that there's going to be some short term bumps, frustrations and setbacks...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Thanks Lucky! I am trying to keep out of my head and see if she becomes remorseful and more receptive to reconcilliation. I have the small light at the end of the tunnell, that she is very motivated to do MC and IC, and we have both been doing so for the last three weeks. I am hopeful with time our MC can talk her through both sides of the marriage and allow her to see how we both screwed the pooch, instead of the focus being all on me.

 

I am working on myself, regardless. Obviously, I need some help, or I would never have gottem myself here in the first place.

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How many people have lived with their spouses while "seperated"? I don't know how to do this and let go at the same time. I feel like a gian yo-yo on a string. She can't seem to make up her mind if she wants to work on things or if she wants to divorce.

 

I am currently trying the following behaviors to help my sanity and stress level..

 

1. While at home with her staying at a distance, but not acting like I am "walking on egg shells"

2. Not initiating any texts, emails, or phone calls (when we text, only business about kids, schedule, errands, etc)

3. Not asking any questions about the relationship

4. Both her and I are in MC and IC weekly

5. When she initiates relationship discussion, I have made it clear I am for reconcilliation, but love her enough to let her go without guilt, or a messy divorce and custody battle. I listen and try NOT to make excuses or "fix" what she is discussing.

 

 

What do you think about these steps? I am trying to move forward with me, but I am not sure how to accomplish this when we are still living together? I am reaching the place internally where I can accept the hard work of reconcilliation, or the bitter heartbreak of divorce, but how do you live in the "limbo" of not knowing when you can't have NC?

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How many people have lived with their spouses while "seperated"? I don't know how to do this and let go at the same time. I feel like a gian yo-yo on a string. She can't seem to make up her mind if she wants to work on things or if she wants to divorce.

 

Lived it (recently) and yeah, it sucks. The up/down/good days/bad days will take a toll on you. If you're working on things with her or not, make sure to get out and do some stuff on your own.

 

I am trying to move forward with me, but I am not sure how to accomplish this when we are still living together? I am reaching the place internally where I can accept the hard work of reconcilliation, or the bitter heartbreak of divorce, but how do you live in the "limbo" of not knowing when you can't have NC?

 

No offense, but I don't think you are moving forward. You're waiting to see what she's going to do. You haven't really decided if you're going to reconcile or move on. In your mind you are coming to terms with either option, but you are waiting for her to initiate which path you're going to take.

 

My advice, pick your path. If you're going to reconcile (even if she's unsure) throw all your efforts and focus into that. If you're going to separate, then get the ball rolling down that path.

 

I've been there my friend. I threw all my efforts into reconciliation, even though she was "in limbo" for most of it. No regrets that I put in that effort to a bottomless pit because I know that I tried everything.

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Right There, that is the reason I have not made my decision, I swore to my daughters that I would do everything I could to save our marriage. I am in my own "limbo" hell, becuase I am waiting on her to make the decision. This is hard for me to understand, but I honestly (on this day) feel that I could go either way and make it work. The day to day living is what is killing me. How am I supposed to act? Either path we choose, I still have to work, stay in shape, be positive for the girls, and keep moving forward, however I feel emotionally, I am not able to change because she is there, constantly reminding me of the pain,sorrow, anger, frustration, loss, and hope that are relentlessly circling my brain....

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Right There, that is the reason I have not made my decision, I swore to my daughters that I would do everything I could to save our marriage. I am in my own "limbo" hell, becuase I am waiting on her to make the decision. This is hard for me to understand, but I honestly (on this day) feel that I could go either way and make it work. The day to day living is what is killing me. How am I supposed to act? Either path we choose, I still have to work, stay in shape, be positive for the girls, and keep moving forward, however I feel emotionally, I am not able to change because she is there, constantly reminding me of the pain,sorrow, anger, frustration, loss, and hope that are relentlessly circling my brain....

 

I totally agree with everything you are saying. But if you're going to do "everything" to save your marriage, then START!!!

 

Keep working out, being positive, being there for your girls, but you need to add the things to get your wife to reconcile. Dates, words, cards of support and love, gifts, etc. Be the guy she wants to be married to.

 

But put a time limit on it. If she still hasn't made a decision after that time (3 months, 6 months, whatever) then you go 180 and start getting ready to separate. She'll see what she's now missing out on.

 

The limbo sucks. But don't sit back and let her control it. She has the ultimate decision to make, but you can guide and drive it with your actions. That's my advice and how I got to where I am right here. I feel good getting out of limbo because I knew what I wanted (reconciliation) and I put everything I could into it. She wouldn't have it so after she decided she was going to leave 100%, then it was like a huge weight off me. I easily switched gears (took a few days) after driving full speed down "reconciliation" went totally the other way and am going full speed towards divorce.

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I totally agree with everything you are saying. But if you're going to do "everything" to save your marriage, then START!!!

 

Keep working out, being positive, being there for your girls, but you need to add the things to get your wife to reconcile. Dates, words, cards of support and love, gifts, etc. Be the guy she wants to be married to.

 

Okay, so that brings up a huge question I have been wrestling with..

 

Our 15th anniversary is next Wednesday. Should I get her a thoughtful gift, or treat it like no big deal and get a card and just say "Happy 15"?

 

She is very clear about no INTAMACY at all (not that I'm all that excited right now since she is only a few weeks from OM)

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Our 15th anniversary is next Wednesday. Should I get her a thoughtful gift, or treat it like no big deal and get a card and just say "Happy 15"?

 

She is very clear about no INTAMACY at all (not that I'm all that excited right now since she is only a few weeks from OM)

 

If you're wanting to reconcile, you have to do something.

 

Don't surprise her, but I would give her advance notice that you either want to get her something or take her out on a date or something like that. I would emphasize that there is no hidden agenda or commitment.

 

Intimacy is off the table. Don't even think about it, don't even try it, maybe even tell her that.

 

Know that it will probably feel like huge effort on your end for little or no acknowledgement from her. It will feel like you're throwing a penny into an empty pool, trying to fill it up one at a time. But if she's receptive, each act like this will slowly open her up to accepting these gifts and acts of love from you.

 

And be positive the whole time. No talking about anything heavy or negative. Compliment her. A lot. Your old relationship is dead. You are trying to build a new one from scratch.

 

Good luck my friend.

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Critically, Yes, she did not know about my infidelity until she was caught in the hotel room and then the stayed with the other man. He then told her about my infidelity that had occured 2 years ago. She is blaming her infidelity on the "swinging" since it was my idea, and using my past affair as the reason she may not want to reconcile.

 

She told me last night that she has still not given any thought to what she has done, and has only focused on my failures. Where I understand to a certain degree, I was hoping that the anger would ease back with MC and IC and after 2 weeks back under the same roof, she would be able to not be so upset and anxious around me. I am interpreting that to mean that she is not interested in reconcilliation at this time. I hope that will change, but I guess I am not all that confident that she wants to change.

 

Dude, what a disaster you helped create. Just divorce her!

 

Learn from these terrible choices.

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If there were no kids involved, I think it would be easier to let go and move. It is a personal choice, but I personally believe that since we brought children into our relationship, we now are obligated as parents to do any and everything possible to reconcile and give them continuity and structure in a loving environment. Where we have screwed up big time already, we should as responsible parents, try to steer things back on track.

 

I am realistic, and I know the odds are against, but I can't give up just yet. I appreciate your opinion, and don't think I haven't considered it many days and nights out of ego..

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Hanging by a thread? I can't see how it's anything except smashed to smithereens.

 

What is it you think you're saving? She's not interested in intimacy.

 

What effort is she planning? What will change about this broken marriage?

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Hanging by a thread? I can't see how it's anything except smashed to smithereens.

 

What is it you think you're saving? She's not interested in intimacy.

 

What effort is she planning? What will change about this broken marriage?

Have to agree. Each step of what you're planning and hoping for requires participation from her. Couples therapy assumes two people...

 

Mr. Lucky

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We are in MC and both in IC as well. I just finished reading RightThere's story, and it sounds a little like mine in the way she is acting not 100% committed to the process.

 

I am trying to start today to no longer be a doormat to my W. I am 100% committed to my happiness and the happiness of my children. MY MARRIAGE IS DEAD! Wow, feels better to type that where it can be seen. After reading so many threads, I am starting to realize, that there is no reconcilliation and I should start saving for the D..

 

I will survive, I know I will be better off at the end of this process, but I am going to hit bottom after this. I need to find the courage to tell her that I am no longer working on R but working on D.

 

You guys are right, she has still not appologized for what she has done, says she is still "in denial and processesing" everything. I know she is swamped at work, but she is using that to hide from our marriage issues. I hate to type these words, and I hate what I have to do, because it is the opposite of what I want to do. It is the opposite of everything I believe, but let's face it, if what I believed worked, I wouldn't have helped F^%$ this marriage up in the first place.

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