Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 So do I think all my male friends are actively thinking about sleeping with me? No. Do I think they may find me attractive and could see themselves doing so in some other context? Maybe. Does it affect our relationship? No. Likewise for me, I have a couple male friends I think are attractive and I could see how given the right circumstances it could lead to more, but it's not an active desire or attraction which affects how we interact. How can it not though? You know they would F you..you know you would not. That's a balance/control issue IMHO; so how can you ever have a real, deep, meaningful relationship with this person? You can, maybe, but can they?
hotpotato Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 No, a **** buddy is not someone who would sleep with you if the circumstances were right. A **** buddy is someone who IS sleeping with you. There's a pretty big difference in terms of the context of a relationship. It is difficult for men and women to be platonic if one of them is immature. If both of them are mature, open-minded adults, it should not be impossible. Plenty of people do it. A fck buddy is someone who likes you but will sleep with you without having a relationship. A fck buddy is someone who you can hang out with and you like on some level, or at least that's how it was with me. You are in line to be a fck buddy. It hasn't happened you but it would if you had the opportunity. You are in line waiting. Men and women can be friends if say the woman is 50 and the man is 20. Otherwise, it's a no go most of the time. There are plenty of people esp the women who think they have friends of the opposite sex. What many women have are orbiters who are trying to sex/date them. Just because the sex/dating has happened yet, doesn't change their desires or intentions. What they have is a one sided friendship in which one person wants to remain platonic while the others are wishing and hoping for a chance at that poon. It is difficult for men and women to be friends because of biology.
hotpotato Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Great feedback. Both of my female friends, and my ex gf, have a lot of male friends. I would ask them about their female friends (do you have any, how close are you, etc), and thet say exactly what you say about them being catty and bitchy, and that they just get along better with men. I don't buy it. I would agree. I find it hard to be friends with females. I couldnt make friends with men either because they always wanted more in the end. I dont think it's fair to keep them around when I have no intention of sexing or dating but that's what they want. So, I'm still in search of a real friend. My only hope is a male friend who is very, very gay. 1
hotpotato Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 A **** buddy is someone who IS sleeping with you. There's a pretty big difference in terms of the context of a relationship. I guess you are going into intention vs reality. However, I think it's incorrect to say that if someone has the intention to date/sex you (and is waiting for the opportunity) they are not platonic. The romantic feelings are there but unrequited at the moment. Feeling romantic about someone is NOT friendship. The only way to say that men and women at large can be friends is to expand the meaning of friendship to being more than platonic. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Ive had few female friends over the years...It had nothing to do with sexual tension or anything..My only "true" female friend is my current office manager..We have the type of relationship that is truly mutually benficial..Even if she no longer worked for me, we'd still maintain a friendship..She is almost like a first cousin to me.. Many women feel an ego boost by having guys on a string...They will flirt with them and act like they are interested in them so that they can use them...No thanks... Other than that, I dont have much in common with most women in a platonic sense..Most of the stuff that interests me really doesnt interest too many women..Stuff like finance, business, sports, construction projects, etc bore the hell out of most women..And thats OK..Quite frankly...men and women are different..At least some are...There is a reason many women have gay male friends...Its much easier to relate.. TFY 1
RedRobin Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Hi Babolat, I just skimmed through the other posts so I apologize if I repeat other replies. I used to have male friends who always expressed sexual interest in me after we got closer. But once I knew that, I realized we couldn't be friends so the friendships usually ended. Which is why I don't believe adult men and women can be close friends but that's a whole other discussion. So if it is a woman who knows these "friends" want to f her but keeps them around anyway, she might be what people call an Attention Whore, or to be more crass a cock tease. If you look up things like "women who only prefer male friends" "women who only have male friends" and the like you'll find hundreds of heated arguments about it. They like the attention and use it to their advantage. Now there's a difference between women who really honestly do have more male friends; some are tomboys who are just really one of the guys or well rounded girls who have great personalities and can mingle with both sexes. But what I have seen is that even tomboys have at least some good female friends (I am one friend to such a gal) and girls who have genuine good friendships with males also have good relationships with other females too. It's the group of women who automatically diss other women as being catty and bitchy, thus they prefer male company, but all the males want to sleep with them and they know this. Personally I despise these types and seen how manipulative and competitive they can be. They enjoy the male attention and eliminate the competition so they are always the doted on goddess who gives all them guys hard ons. And they always complalin about why other females hate them, thus reinforcing to them that women are all jealous bitches and that's why they like guys a lot more. I think that's why people always used to tell me stay away from men who only have female friends or women who only have male friends; there's always something else going on under the guise of their "friendships" Hope I didn't ramble too much! I agree with you 100%... The bolded part more or less describes me (yes, people IRL say I have a great personality and am lots of fun... although some here would find that hard to believe, ha ha). I have both male and female friends. My male friends stay my male friends because I always defer to their GF or wife. To be honest, that's how I treat my female friends too. If they are in a committed relationship, their partner or spouse's needs come first. I'm happy to say that all of my friends have well-balanced lives and so I never feel gipped by my real friends... or used... or manipulated... Sure, there are a couple of male friends who toyed with the idea of us sleeping together at first. And maybe I toyed with the idea of dating them too... but as we got to know each other, we both saw incompatibilities in lifestyle, temperment, energy level, age group... whatever. I can't imagine any of them taking advantage of me. Anyway, I have about the same number of female and male friends. 2
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 there are plenty of people esp the women who think they have friends of the opposite sex. What many women have are orbiters who are trying to sex/date them. Just because the sex/dating has happened yet, doesn't change their desires or intentions. What they have is a one sided friendship in which one person wants to remain platonic while the others are wishing and hoping for a chance at that poon. It is difficult for men and women to be friends because of biology. exactly! Bingo!
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 Ive had few female friends over the years...It had nothing to do with sexual tension or anything..My only "true" female friend is my current office manager..We have the type of relationship that is truly mutually benficial..Even if she no longer worked for me, we'd still maintain a friendship..She is almost like a first cousin to me.. Many women feel an ego boost by having guys on a string...They will flirt with them and act like they are interested in them so that they can use them...No thanks... Other than that, I dont have much in common with most women in a platonic sense..Most of the stuff that interests me really doesnt interest too many women..Stuff like finance, business, sports, construction projects, etc bore the hell out of most women..And thats OK..Quite frankly...men and women are different..At least some are...There is a reason many women have gay male friends...Its much easier to relate.. TFY Another bingo exactly! As long as there is a hint of sex, the possibility of, I think it's BS for any man or woman to say "he/she is my best friend, we share so much, we are so close, we care about each other, it's so wonderful to have a male/female friend". Total BS. And, I think the woman is being selfish in "keeping the man around" for her selfish needs and attention, and so is the man for that matter. The woman who disconnect/detach from their "male friends" who bring up sex, hint at it, whatever, earn my respect, 100%. The ones who say "he knows it will never happen" and continues the friendship, not so much. I do believe men and women can be friends, best friends, but not where there is any hint of sex there. And yeah, I can think my female friends are attractive, but thinking about F&%cking them, even sharing it with them, that's an issue for me.
Kate9292 Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Another bingo exactly! As long as there is a hint of sex, the possibility of, I think it's BS for any man or woman to say "he/she is my best friend, we share so much, we are so close, we care about each other, it's so wonderful to have a male/female friend". Total BS. And, I think the woman is being selfish in "keeping the man around" for her selfish needs and attention, and so is the man for that matter. The woman who disconnect/detach from their "male friends" who bring up sex, hint at it, whatever, earn my respect, 100%. The ones who say "he knows it will never happen" and continues the friendship, not so much. I do believe men and women can be friends, best friends, but not where there is any hint of sex there. And yeah, I can think my female friends are attractive, but thinking about F&%cking them, even sharing it with them, that's an issue for me. I have several male friends and I know they probably would sleep with me but I don't want to. Doesn't stop me from enjoying their company as they never actually said they want to have sex with me. They just try to act flirty around me. Depending on mood I might play along for a while, and shut them down when I think I had enough. If they actually said they want to have sex with me, especially now that I have a bf, of course I'd detach from them.
Sanman Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Here, is the other issue. People are assuming that one or both of these people are single. I have a friend now, who is also a co-worker, and is really cool. Be are both about the same age and we talk all the time. Would I ask her out if we were both single? Sure. However, neither of us are. That is fine and we are still friends. To add to what Dream world said, it is also important to see what type of friends a woman is talking about. If, in all of these male friendships, not one of these men are gay, that also adds credence to the argument that these are not platonic friends. This type of person prefers orbiters rather than friends. My gf has a friend like this. She is friends with mostly straight men. My gf was a bit of a wallflower and never in a serious relationship when they were close. Once we got together and became serious, you could see this friend get jealous and be mens because we were spending more time together and I became more important. She could not handle not being the center of attention. She also has a history of fighting with other women she perceives to be as attractive as her. 1
thefooloftheyear Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Another bingo exactly! As long as there is a hint of sex, the possibility of, I think it's BS for any man or woman to say "he/she is my best friend, we share so much, we are so close, we care about each other, it's so wonderful to have a male/female friend". Total BS. And, I think the woman is being selfish in "keeping the man around" for her selfish needs and attention, and so is the man for that matter. The woman who disconnect/detach from their "male friends" who bring up sex, hint at it, whatever, earn my respect, 100%. The ones who say "he knows it will never happen" and continues the friendship, not so much. I do believe men and women can be friends, best friends, but not where there is any hint of sex there. And yeah, I can think my female friends are attractive, but thinking about F&%cking them, even sharing it with them, that's an issue for me. And a lot of women flatter themselves into thinking every man on the street wants to get in their pants..Just look at the posts here.. Simply NOT the case... And just because I am a big, strong guy with a nice pickup truck, dont bat your eyes and rub my back so that I can move a piece of heavy furniture for you...I dont need the crumbs or the ego boost...Id prefer to just send you an invoice instead.. TFY 2
hotpotato Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 I have several male friends and I know they probably would sleep with me but I don't want to. Doesn't stop me from enjoying their company as they never actually said they want to have sex with me. They just try to act flirty around me. Depending on mood I might play along for a while, and shut them down when I think I had enough. If they actually said they want to have sex with me, especially now that I have a bf, of course I'd detach from them. Those arent friends. In the dating world those are called 'orbiters' or 'beta orbiters.' Here we go, another example of a one sided friendship. Do you think its unfair to keep them around when they have different goals expectations than you have? 2
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 Sure, there are a couple of male friends who toyed with the idea of us sleeping together at first. And maybe I toyed with the idea of dating them too... but as we got to know each other, we both saw incompatibilities in lifestyle, temperment, energy level, age group... whatever. I can't imagine any of them taking advantage of me. Anyway, I have about the same number of female and male friends. This makes sense to me, and I agree. It was this way with my female best friend for a while, at least with me. I thought "Maybe...", never looked at her for sex though. And, as I have gotten to know her, like you state, I see our differences and do not want to date her, or even think about her sexually. I value our friendship.
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) Those arent friends. In the dating world those are called 'orbiters' or 'beta orbiters.' Here we go, another example of a one sided friendship. Do you think its unfair to keep them around when they have different goals expectations than you have? Thinking the same, glad YOU wrote it! "She" shuts them down.... "She" doesn't want to sleep with them.... "especially now that I have a bf" - Why does that matter, at all? Friend, or not a friend, which is it? Doesn't stop "her" from enjoying their company Not going to say it..you just told us they did, they flirt with you and YOU shut it down... I am not judging you at all. You are free to act and behave as you like. I am simply making my point, it's not balanced. YOU control the friendhsip, YOU define how far it will go and YOU know they would sleep with you if you let it happen. Edited October 24, 2013 by Babolat
thefooloftheyear Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Thinking the same, glad YOU wrote it! "She" shuts them down.... "She" doesn't want to sleep with them.... "especially now that I have a bf" - Why does that matter, at all? Friend, or not a friend, which is it? Doesn't stop "her" from enjoying their company Not going to say it..you just told us they did, they flirt with you and YOU shut it down... I am not judging you at all. You are free to act and behave as you like. I am simply making my point, it's not balanced. YOU control the friendhsip, YOU define how far it will go and YOU know they would sleep with you if you let it happen. You know the answer already.... It the same reason that women get pissed off if they dump YOU and YOU never call them or beg them to take you back..."why isnt he fighting for me"??....yeah...right...They actually get angry because you decide you dont want to participate in that bullshyt!! TFY 1
Kate9292 Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Thinking the same, glad YOU wrote it! "She" shuts them down.... "She" doesn't want to sleep with them.... "especially now that I have a bf" - Why does that matter, at all? Friend, or not a friend, which is it? Doesn't stop "her" from enjoying their company Not going to say it..you just told us they did, they flirt with you and YOU shut it down... I am not judging you at all. You are free to act and behave as you like. I am simply making my point, it's not balanced. YOU control the friendhsip, YOU define how far it will go and YOU know they would sleep with you if you let it happen. Oh please. Don't make it sound like they are some poor helpless saps so firmly under my charm they can't think for themselves (it is pretty flattering to think so though ). They are the ones who initiate most of the contact, I do initiate sometimes, but less then they do. If they didn't like the way it goes, they can leave anytime. I won't hold it against them. I might not be thrilled, but they are grown men who can think for themselves.
TheGuard13 Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 A fck buddy is someone who likes you but will sleep with you without having a relationship. A fck buddy is someone who you can hang out with and you like on some level, or at least that's how it was with me. You are in line to be a fck buddy. Right, but a **** buddy is someone you have actually already slept with and would sleep with again, given the opportunity. It is an agreement made by both parties about their status, not just a "wish" of one of the partners. You can't be a **** buddy without the other person's input, and without sleeping with the object of your affection. Yes, many women have "orbiters" (though simply wanting to sleep with a woman does not make one an orbiter, there's a set of circumstances associated), and I'm sure some of them wish they could be "**** buddies". But not all men are only out for sex. It's really not a difficult concept. It's like, say I really liked playing Magic: The Gathering (which I don't). I befriend a girl because we share an interest in Magic. But I like her for reasons other than that, hence, you cannot say I am only after Magic. Replace Magic with sex. It is difficult for men and women to be friends because of biology. No, biology itself allows for all kinds of options. It is difficult because of cultural and social ideas about what friendship can and cannot mean and include. I guess you are going into intention vs reality. However, I think it's incorrect to say that if someone has the intention to date/sex you (and is waiting for the opportunity) they are not platonic. The romantic feelings are there but unrequited at the moment. Feeling romantic about someone is NOT friendship. You're going to have to show me where the definition of friendship precludes the ability to have romantic or sexual feelings for someone. The only way to say that men and women at large can be friends is to expand the meaning of friendship to being more than platonic. And that's only because the only way to say that women and men cannot be friends has been to attempt to narrow the definition.
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 Oh please. Don't make it sound like they are some poor helpless saps so firmly under my charm they can't think for themselves (it is pretty flattering to think so though ). They are the ones who initiate most of the contact, I do initiate sometimes, but less then they do. If they didn't like the way it goes, they can leave anytime. I won't hold it against them. I might not be thrilled, but they are grown men who can think for themselves. No, I am not suggesting they are saps firmly under your charm, not at all. Even more to my point...THEY initiate the contact. THEY come to you. If THEY don't like the way it goes...THEY can leave... You control these friendships....
TheGuard13 Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Not saying OP is guilty of this, but I'd be pretty curious to find out how many of the girls who whine about guys flirting with them flirt right back and love the attention and the flirting, just not the reality of the guy's affections. 1
Kate9292 Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 No, I am not suggesting they are saps firmly under your charm, not at all. Even more to my point...THEY initiate the contact. THEY come to you. If THEY don't like the way it goes...THEY can leave... You control these friendships.... Excuse me? Why does it matter who has the control? Honestly, you sound kinda like a control freak right now... They initiate contact... I accept (or not). I initiate contact (less often, but still)... they accept (or not). They come to me... I invite them in (or not). I come to them... they invite me in (or not). If they don't like the way it goes... they can leave (or stay and try to work out the issue). If I don't like the way it goes... I can leave too (or, again, stay and try to work out the issue, depending what it is). Both me and them have a say in how it's going on. And it doesn't even matter, who initiates more - both sides are adults capable of making choices. What's so shocking about any of this that you try to put some kind of spin on it? 1
acrosstheuniverse Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 I have quite a few male friends that would F me given the chance, several that I have already F in the past. I think for me, the attraction can be there as long as you both have boundaries in place, and I've found that as the years progress, those feelings sometimes dissipate entirely to being a completely sexually neutral friendship. If a guy was crazy in love and desperate to be with me I wouldn't maintain a friendship as it wouldn't be fair on him, and I wouldn't want to lead him on. But if a guy basically thought I was hot, and obviously this means he'd probably wanna F me, I don't really see the problem as long as no boundaries are crossed. Those boundaries would be disrespecting my relationship, slagging off my boyfriend, disrespecting my 'NO' to overt flirting, making any moves on me when he already knows I'm not interested, etc. I'm an attractive female, and I tend to be more of a tomboy than a girly girl in terms of interests. I get along really well with dudes, as well as my girls. As I'm not extremely unattractive, I think it's pretty much a given that many male friends might wanna F me just like they admit they would F most of their hot female friends. It's just sex drive, biology, etc. I wouldn't let it dictate my only ever having female friendships. 1
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 Excuse me? Why does it matter who has the control? Honestly, you sound kinda like a control freak right now... They initiate contact... I accept (or not). I initiate contact (less often, but still)... they accept (or not). They come to me... I invite them in (or not). I come to them... they invite me in (or not). If they don't like the way it goes... they can leave (or stay and try to work out the issue). If I don't like the way it goes... I can leave too (or, again, stay and try to work out the issue, depending what it is). Both me and them have a say in how it's going on. And it doesn't even matter, who initiates more - both sides are adults capable of making choices. What's so shocking about any of this that you try to put some kind of spin on it? I am not judging you, read my earlier replies to your comments. I am using your "electronic" words as examples to my point. Our points are different, no need to call me a control freak. This is an internet forum, simply having a healthy debate, not looking to judge you or tag you with a name.
Author Babolat Posted October 24, 2013 Author Posted October 24, 2013 (edited) I have quite a few male friends that would F me given the chance, several that I have already F in the past. I think for me, the attraction can be there as long as you both have boundaries in place, and I've found that as the years progress, those feelings sometimes dissipate entirely to being a completely sexually neutral friendship. If a guy was crazy in love and desperate to be with me I wouldn't maintain a friendship as it wouldn't be fair on him, and I wouldn't want to lead him on. But if a guy basically thought I was hot, and obviously this means he'd probably wanna F me, I don't really see the problem as long as no boundaries are crossed. Those boundaries would be disrespecting my relationship, slagging off my boyfriend, disrespecting my 'NO' to overt flirting, making any moves on me when he already knows I'm not interested, etc. I'm an attractive female, and I tend to be more of a tomboy than a girly girl in terms of interests. I get along really well with dudes, as well as my girls. As I'm not extremely unattractive, I think it's pretty much a given that many male friends might wanna F me just like they admit they would F most of their hot female friends. It's just sex drive, biology, etc. I wouldn't let it dictate my only ever having female friendships. Let me ask you a question. If you were not hot, not attractive, not all that, say you were fat, ugly, unattractive, do you think these "dudes" would be your "friend"? Say you were exactly the same person, same personality, same everything.....only difference, you are no longer attractive, in fact you may be out right ugly. How many of the dudes would still be around? As you say, you are not extremely unattractive...lets say for a second you are... Edited October 24, 2013 by Babolat 1
hotpotato Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Right, but a **** buddy is someone you have actually already slept with and would sleep with again, given the opportunity. It is an agreement made by both parties about their status, not just a "wish" of one of the partners. You can't be a **** buddy without the other person's input, and without sleeping with the object of your affection. But the intentions are to be a fck buddy. The sexual feelings are there, but one party is shutting the other one down. Once again it comes down to reality vs intentions. I feel like I am debating with you over the definition of 'iS.' Yes, many women have "orbiters" (though simply wanting to sleep with a woman does not make one an orbiter, there's a set of circumstances associated), and I'm sure some of them wish they could be "**** buddies". But not all men are only out for sex. It's really not a difficult concept. Orbiting means to hang around her, whether for dating or just for sex. Surely, men and women can be friends, but usually this is not the case. Much of the time one party has some kind of feelings that are not returned by the other party. A lot of the times guys choose women they are sexually attracted to as 'friends.' Especially if he does much of the initiating whether just to meet her in the first place or to schedule time with her, hes probably attracted to her. It's like, say I really liked playing Magic: The Gathering (which I don't). I befriend a girl because we share an interest in Magic. But I like her for reasons other than that, hence, you cannot say I am only after Magic. Replace Magic with sex. Oh im not saying you cant like someone and also want to screw them. People all the time. Its called a fck buddy. Is it friendship? Nope. No, biology itself allows for all kinds of options. It is difficult because of cultural and social ideas about what friendship can and cannot mean and include. In other words, men and women cant just be platonic so lets change the definition of friendship to suit my argument. Society already has names for people who fck and hang out but dont date-friends with benefits, fck buddies, etc. But men and women being just friends is a no go most of the time. You're going to have to show me where the definition of friendship precludes the ability to have romantic or sexual feelings for someone. Ill put it this way. Would you screw or thinking about screwing your best male friends? Probably not. Thats what a friendship is. Once again you are proving my pount. Men and women cant be just friends most of the time, and deep diwn we all know this. And that's only because the only way to say that women and men cannot be friends has been to attempt to narrow the definition. And the only way to say men and women can be friends is to include what was once called unrequited love or unrequited sexual feelings or to put lovers or wannabe lovers in the same pool as those who are friends.
thefooloftheyear Posted October 24, 2013 Posted October 24, 2013 Let me ask you a question. If you were not hot, not attractive, not all that, say you were fat, ugly, unattractive, do you think these "dudes" would be your "friend"? Say you were exactly the same person, same personality, same everything.....only difference, you are no longer attractive, in fact you may be out right ugly. How many of the dudes would still be around? As you say, you are not extremely unattractive...lets say for a second you are... Ill give you some more ammo.... I know plenty of attractive women who dont have ANY male "hang arounds"...I'm my office manager's only male friend,(she is drop dead gorgeous-BTW) and TBH, we wouldnt have become friends in the first place if she didnt work for me..She just isnt the type that needs guys around hoping like little puppies for a weak moment to get in her stuff ...She doesnt need the ego boost, and it just isnt her style.. I have no issue with healthy friend type relationships between women and men. As long as its a legitimate friendship and doesnt have an ulterior motive, then great...But I dont think many are like this... TFY 2
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