When do you stop talking about it?

[katielee]

I don't want to t/j the forgiveness thread.

I had a good couple of days but then a couple things were gnawing at me..

Before bed he knew I was feeling down and I said I was having a moment. He kissed me, said I love you... I did the same but then said I hate what you effing did to me. I tried to talk but he fell asleep...

 

then I said, why did you you have an affair with someone you didn't even like? He groggily answered, "why did you?" I answered and then asked that he please answer the question. he answered that he wanted to feel good. HE asked why I always had to pick fights, be the victim and that he's already answered all of these questions... and why couldn't have talked about this earlier that day. i said "I'm tired of having to put my hurt inside a little box and get it out when it's appropriate. If you want to ask me questions then YOU bring it up instead of turning it back on me right away." - in IC AND MC we worked on confidence and having the right to ask these questions.

 

We got it back together and held each other but not before him saying "when we do this I don't feel as close to you then." I guess I better keep my effing mouth shut then, I thought.

[katielee]

I love your rabbit hole thing, I'm gonna try it. Thanks!

yes, I know I should stay away from those times but things just spill over. I had them written down so I realize I should have shared it earlier.

WE don't rehash everyday. maybe once a month? I think that's probably normal... I think?

[road]

 

then I said, why did you you have an affair with someone you didn't even like? He groggily answered, "why did you?" I answered and then asked that he please answer the question

 

 

I read this as you both had affairs.

 

Then in your next post you said you talk about the affair once every month.

 

 

 

Why questions are a waste of time. Because the WS wanted some side action and figured that they would never get caught. That's why.

 

Not every spouse that has a poor marriage has an affair. Not every person in a great marriage has an affair.

 

What you need to do is ask every single question about your WH's affair. Take a weekend. Grill your WH. Ask. reword the question and re ask. Once you are confident all the answers match up. That there is nothing else you want to know. Then never ever talk about the affair again.

 

You now know every thing. Rehashing things will just keep the affair memories alive instead of fading. Self inflicting pain does not allow healing.

 

You want to heal, don't you?

 

Also at that time give your WH/BH the last opportunity to ask about your affair.

 

Then you both must leave it in the past.

[katielee]

I don't agree with that Road, the Marriage Builders way of doing things. I will have to bring it up occasionally. I will have to say I hurt occasionally. He WILL need to know when i trigger so he can help me.

I CAN rephrase the why questions to "what were your thoughts..." questions though, as our MC suggested.

 

he knows I still hurt over this. It's not fair that he got to screw around twice and then gets a happy wife who never talks about it again? Why not do it again then?

Same with him... I need to be there for him whenever he needs to talk.

[NotCamelot]

katielee.....

 

It's been almost 18 months since d-day for me as a BH. I stopped bringing it up back during this summer. When I brought it up the last two times, my W got a really bad/sad look on her face and said "Why do you have to keep bringing it up?" and "Why did you have to bring that up?"

 

Now I know there are those on LS that will say, "Sure she does not want to bring it up because............". To them I say, I know this woman. I knew her well enough to know when something was wrong, and I know her well enough to know true remorse and regret.

 

She is genuinely hurt, remoresful, and embarrased by what she did to me/us. So I have stopped. Not bringing it up has made it better for me as well. I don't think about it as much now......unless when I am visiting here.

 

Maybe your H feels the same way (I hope). I know we ALL who are in the R process want the hurt to go away as fast as possible. And we are all told it can't be rushed. But, I can tell you that in my case, not talking about it anymore has helped.

 

At one point my W said, "We can't get past it if we keep talking about it." She was RIGHT. After you have the questions answered that you want, and discussed the outcome and future, it's time to move on. And, if we can't do that, it's time to move on without them.

 

Now, if I could just stop hearing about cheating in almost every damn TV show, movie, song, and book that comes along - it would help. THAT makes me sick. It also makes me sick that it is so common and almost acceptable!

 

And it pisses me off when people think it's funny!!!!!!!!

[katielee]

NotCamelot:

 

great he wins. he gets the "It's not fair that he got to screw around twice and then gets a happy wife who never talks about it again?"

 

Well played mrkatielee....

 

ARGH!!!!!!

[NotCamelot]

NotCamelot:

 

great he wins. he gets the "It's not fair that he got to screw around twice and then gets a happy wife who never talks about it again?"

 

Well played mrkatielee....

 

ARGH!!!!!!

 

I totally understand and agree. I feel the same sometimes. But it is getting better.......by not bringing it up to her.

 

I had a hard time with it at first, the silence about it, that is. But it is working.

[harrybrown]

Has your H ever really gotten over your affair? I thought yours was first and then he had his 2.

 

I agree that revenge affairs are never a good idea. Sometimes an affair makes you feel like you are not even second best, that your spouse choose someone over you and that I am totally worthless. Did he go to IC to help him with his self-esteem.

 

Mine was destroyed, but some friends have been helpful in getting some of the self-esteem back. It has been 3 years, she will never admit anything, but it really bothered her, when her sister and her friend told her she was the luckiest to have me. I think when she was in the affair fog, she had to magnify my faults to justify what she was doing.

 

It is good to hear from her sisters about my good qualities, but my self-esteem still has not recovered.

 

 

How is your H's self-esteem?

[katielee]

Has your H ever really gotten over your affair? I thought yours was first and then he had his 2.

 

 

 

 

 

How is your H's self-esteem?

 

Harry - I don't know. He says he has forgiven me. His affairs were 1.5 years after mine. He said he just wanted to feel good, so that's why he did it. I don't know if he's over mine yet...

 

self esteem - he says he knows what he did is wrong and takes comfort in the fact that he's lived a life of integrity since then... He is insecure though. So much so that he didn't want me to take an exercise class where some men will be there.. 85% women though.

[RightThere]

No, do not keep your mouth shut but be clear on what you need-we say "Rabbit hole" when we are getting ready to go down that path-its the sign I need to be held and loved on- I need to be sheltered and saved from the demons in my head-

 

Crap. This info is very good (although a few days too late for me).

[janedoe67]

NotCamelot:

 

great he wins. he gets the "It's not fair that he got to screw around twice and then gets a happy wife who never talks about it again?"

 

Well played mrkatielee....

 

ARGH!!!!!!

 

Honestly, you have to decide if this is about winning or about recovery.

[velvette]

I think when you have all the basic questions answered, and are asking the same question over and over, its time to stop talking about it or to do something different.

 

Some questions will NEVER have a good answer no matter how many times or different ways you ask them.

 

The answer will not change what happened. Accept or stay stuck railing against that.

 

Staying stuck prevents you from experiencing happiness in the here and now.

 

Sometimes getting unstuck is a choice.

[katielee]

When you talk or not talk about it, it should not be about punishing him. And the same goes for when he brings up yours.

 

 

here's the rub: when he brings it up with me I do not see it as punishment at all. I see it as a way to explain myself, how I've changed, etc and that leads to more intimacy.

 

however, he thinks its punishment when I bring it up. He's willing to do it. He doesn't want to.

[katielee]

Honestly, you have to decide if this is about winning or about recovery.

 

well, it feels like I've lost if I stay. It feels like I'm saying "what you did was ok."

[velvette]

here's the rub: when he brings it up with me I do not see it as punishment at all. I see it as a way to explain myself, how I've changed, etc and that leads to more intimacy.

 

however, he thinks its punishment when I bring it up. He's willing to do it. He doesn't want to.

 

 

That is just a difference in the way men and women think and communicate imo. For him, likely the only reason to talk about it is if its necessary to solve a problem. He already told you it doesn't create intimacy for him or "make him feel close to you".

 

It probably feels like punishment to him lol.

 

Perhaps, clarifying this in counseling would help. But, you need to meet somewhere in the middle so you both get what you need.

 

Bringing up something while hes nodding off to sleep is not conducive to willing participation imo.

 

Sometimes, as women our need to talk things through ad nauseum is best satisfied with friends, therapists or anonymous message boards, lest we torture our spouses to death. The alternative is find a man who communicates like a woman........but my guess is you wont find him a very attractive partner or you would already be with someone like that.

[katielee]

 

as women our need to talk things through ad nauseum is best satisfied with friends, therapists or anonymous message boards, lest we torture our spouses to death. .

 

yes, why I'm here. he gets about 99% of what I really go through, the rest is dispersed throughout friends, family, IC and places like this... but it is... disappointing.

[katielee]

And then I remind him that just listening is help.

 

and this is what my MC tried to tell him. My questions arent' really questions, I just want to be heard.... and he doesn't need to fix it, just listen.

[road]

NotCamelot:

 

great he wins. he gets the "It's not fair that he got to screw around twice and then gets a happy wife who never talks about it again?"

 

Well played mrkatielee....

 

ARGH!!!!!!

 

 

No.

 

Affairs are wrong. They can never be undone. The damage they did can never be undone.

 

The BS needs to get the whole truth told to them. After a month I would think that every question a BS could think of has been answered, examined, then re asked and re answered.

 

Once there is no more to learn rehashing the affair keeps the affair alive in the WS's and BS's memory.

 

For healing to take place the affair has to be aloud to fade. Talking about the affair and those memories will never fade.

 

So you trigger. You do not empower it you ignore and the way it came it will go away.

[road]

and this is what my MC tried to tell him. My questions arent' really questions, I just want to be heard.... and he doesn't need to fix it, just listen.

 

A sign of a bad MC is they tell the customer what they want to hear not what they need to hear.

 

Why?

 

Because they will lose their customers.

[yellowmaverick]

KL - I think it is too new for you two to never talk about it. Your H sounds like a conflict avoider. Talking about your feelings and sharing deep emotions should you bring you CLOSER together, not pull you apart. It is disappointing that he feels this way. Him saying this to you almost sounds like a veiled threat ("you better not talk about it if you want me around"). Sure it's uncomfortable talking about something horrible that you regret doing, but you two need to get through it. My ILs rugswept his affair and 20 years later my MIL is still hurting and resentful. They never worked through it. You and your H need to work through it, not around it.

[katielee]

yellowmaverick -I agree... you're right on the veiled threat - it's almost as if he's warning me to stop talking.... so what would be the point then on staying together if my emotional needs can't be met by someone who doens't like the uncomfortable stuff?

 

road: you and I will never agree on how to heal from affairs. Our MC holds my husband's feet to the fire many times. What am I supposed to do when I trigger ignore it? no. I'm going to honor the crap this girl went through and express my pain. Telling yourself something doesn't matter when it really does, how very unauthentic... and I can't be that person.

[velvette]

and this is what my MC tried to tell him. My questions arent' really questions, I just want to be heard.... and he doesn't need to fix it, just listen.

 

I don't see how your H would know that from the convo you described, because you did ask him a question rather than say " It makes me upset that you had an A with someone you didn't even like."

 

On top of that when he answered, you told him it was the wrong answer because he answered with a question. You could have just gone with that answered his question and see where that led.

 

Not saying youre wrong, but youre kind of saying two diff things and I can see how your H would feel like he cant do anything right or at least be somewhat confused about what you want from him.

[katielee]

I'm gonna stand pretty firm on him not answering a question with , why did you do it?" If he wants that questioned answered he can bring it up himself. Yet I still answered it first. And then asked him to answer my question. Thought I was being pretty darn gracious....

Not good communication to point the finger back right away. Our MC and his IC warned him about doing that.....

[velvette]

I'm gonna stand pretty firm on him not answering a question with , why did you do it?" If he wants that questioned answered he can bring it up himself. Yet I still answered it first. And then asked him to answer my question. Thought I was being pretty darn gracious....

Not good communication to point the finger back right away. Our MC and his IC warned him about doing that.....

 

 

Sorry, I misread your post. Have you tried a set limited time each week to talk about the A?

[katielee]

We have not set a limited time. I'm willing to do that. another accommodation for him.