Girlfriend suddenly wants us to have time apart

[Scooter1986]

I apologize if this is long. Tried to keep it interesting, I just want whoever responds to have as much context as possible.

 

We've been together for 4 years. Same university. I was 2 years out, working a job I hated with a degree that I had quickly learned...that I hated. I lived in town, came from a crap family, got thrown out by my dad who wanted me to flunk out of college. My mom left when I was 13, and I lived with my dad who has full fledged Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It screwed me up. Had a lot of self image issues, which compelled me to always stay in shape. Used to be into bodybuilding and cross country track, but I tried to just tone it down to staying healthy (despite my occasional smoking, yea, I'm a Steve McQueen type dude) and running on occasion.

 

She came from an isolated exotic place several thousand miles away. But she is American. Her mother had been trying to leave her father for many years, and finally got the courage a year or so before to go, and she lived nearby (which was on the opposite side of the country from where she left). She doesn't speak to her father, and hasn't for as long as we've been together. Reason is, she wanted to go into the military. Her father told her if she went to college, he'd pay for it. But when her mother left, he decided against it and refused to give her his financial information for school, which screwed her badly her last year of school. Same thing happened to me with my dad. Talked me into staying home to take care of him (he's a type 1 diabetic, "i'll die if you leave me!"), threw me out 3 years in and refused to pay for any tuition, as promised. Even though by that time I was balls deep into college and had a fair amount of student loan debt.

 

She's had some self image issues. She's beautiful, just breathtaking. But she has a testosterone thing that gave her a little body hair. It's nothing really - it's actually fairly common and not really even noticeable - but it was a huge deal to her. I understand. I thought I had bad teeth until I got them capped out of college, and I've always been funny about how I look, hence the exercise thing. But once I figured it out, and realized she didn't want to be intimate because of it, I wanted to get her past it. So, after we'd been together for several months, I got the opportunity to get intimate with her. I seized the moment, I was swift, and I performed fellatio on her. It was important to me. I wanted her to feel beautiful about her body. She was beautiful to me. She initially had mixed feelings about it, because that was the first time a guy had ever done anything intimate with her. And she was only the second girl I'd ever been with intimately.

 

I can be a very codependent guy. I always had to have someone around - roommate, friend, family member. I've had periods of depression, sometimes heavy. She picked up on this immediately. Right after we started dating, if she was cold towards me, she'd know that I was going to call or text, that sort of thing. She knew me better than myself.

 

I was the first one to say I Love You. It was several months into our relationship, and before we were intimate. She didn't respond at the time, but she was okay with me saying it.

 

She had some emotional problems, and just finding my independence as a person, I was very sure of myself despite the fact that I also had competing codependent tendencies. I liked to have discussions and bounce things off of her. At times she would disagree just because. If you'd walk through something logically, step by step, she could get angry. Sometimes she'd say "it's how I FEEL" or "it's my emotions, don't try to logic me through it". She could be contrarian - taking a position counter to whatever position I took - something in the news, whatever. We once got into an argument about how big a deal it would be if society collapsed - she said that if we lost all of our records (she works in preservation, btw), we could never recreate them. I claimed that we would recreate them, or something close to them. You don't just FORGET that people don't like slavery, and many other things would be recreated because of mathematics, science, and a response to human emotions. We'd get into little discussions like that where she would take a position, and then turn cold. Forget about it, and it'd randomly come up 3 months, 6 months, or hell, 2 yrs later. Now, over the years I've gotten into the habit where, if she gets into one of these moods and tries to argue with me about something in the past, I tell her I'm not able to discuss it. If it bothered her then, she should've said something then, or we handled that before and I won't hash through a conversation from a year ago. That's a trick people use to get you emotional when they're feeling emotional, and it turns the tables on you. I am well aware of that.

 

About three years ago we moved in together. Off and on it's been tumultuous. She didn't have a good job and had no money. She had dreams, as did I. She wanted to leave town with no money, and I told her "you can't pay the rent with your dreams", something that she was very bitter about for awhile. I had had a hard dose of reality myself, and I was trying to soften it for her.

 

I had a terrible job, but it paid the bills. She wanted me to quit and do something that made me happier. When I wasn't able to find another job, and was broke when the time came I'd planned to leave the job, she was upset that I didn't, which didn't make me feel any better, already hating my days.

 

One night, she was particularly cold to me, and I told her. She said "so?" I wrote my thoughts out in the margins of a book I still have (it was something about how sad having a last kiss with someone, or making love, not knowing it would be the last time). She found it while I was at work the next day, ripped my book apart, and cried for me to stay. She begged me for another chance, and I gave it to her.

 

In the three years since, these things have happened from time to time, ranging about once every 6 months or so, and she might have a little distant spell once every month or two.

 

She has a tendency to heavily criticize, say, her mother or sister, and if later on I say anything along those lines she'll go bat****. I've been told this is a thing people do. But, with my friends, if your brother does something idiotic, it's idiotic whether you say it or Billy Bob says it. I couldn't help myself recently...I had a tooth chip, and got a price for over 2 grand from a dentist to do two crowns. She said to do it (I said no, not now), and that her mom said some things, if you only need to do them once, are worth splurging. I told her I used to be a business major and that it wasn't wise to take financial advice from someone who has over 30 grand of credit card debt. Haha it was a beautiful perfect response. She was not pleased.

 

She has a tendency to, if something breaks, immediately want to replace it. She can be hasty. We had a washing machine overflow - almost brand new - and she wanted to buy another one. I said let's fix it, and we got into an argument over it. Secretly, I fixed it (faulty design on load size switch, duh), bought a pan and a flood sensor, and she was thrilled when her mother came over and commented on what a resourceful gentleman I was. Prior to this, it was cats and dogs.

 

This all sounds bad. But she was very encouraging to me in becoming a standup comic (my dream). She didn't always like the things I did, or the things I wanted to talk about, but she was more supportive to me than any other person.

 

She pointed out to me toxic relationships in my life, and helped me to figure out how I'm wired, when other people in my life were aware of this and used it to torment me, leaving me confused and crippled emotionally. Of course, at times she has done this as well. But, she helped me to become aware of some of my ticks, and she gave me the strength I needed at the time to rid myself of several toxic relationships (I know this sounds like brainwashing. It isn't. She was the one that turned me on to George Orwell and helped me to understand how people can manipulate you).

 

There were times early in our relationship when she would cry, and say she didn't know what was wrong with her. She didn't want to go to a doctor, psychologist, etc, and I would hold her until she stopped crying.

 

Two years ago, I got laid off. Happiest day of my life. That job was soul crushing. She was mostly supportive. She wanted to go to graduate school, and I supported that. Early in our relationship, I criticized that idea, saying that if she wanted to avoid real life and student loans, more school for the sake of more school isn't going to help. This too led to more than one argument.

 

And, having come from a conservative family, early on she talked about marriage (I say within 5-6 months). But I was her first real boyfriend. I was the first person she had ever had any sort of sexual contact with. So I figure it was a first love sort of thing, and after awhile she was totally fine with us not being married (something I have become opposed to, but that's me).

 

Our religious views changed together (or, went away, rather). Mine first, followed shortly thereafter by hers. This was something we went through on our own. So we don't have any disagreements there, but we did at times when we were at different places with it.

 

When I was unemployed, I started doing the cooking/cleaning/etc. She wanted this. She doesn't like to do this stuff, she's not a neat person, and mentally I can't stand to live in a pigsty, so it seemed like we fit like a puzzle piece. I took care of our apt, our vehicles, made sure the bills were paid, did the shopping, that sort of thing. At times she would randomly get upset about it, as if I was lazy because I wasn't making much/any money. And then she'd be totally fine and even braggy.

 

So she started graduate school, (this was last August, a year ago) and was commuting an hour and a half each way. We planned to move that summer, didn't find a place, and put off the move until winter between semesters. She mostly didn't want me to work, or if I did, not full time. And I was okay with that.

 

When we wanted to move last summer, she drove an hour and a half each way to look at 595,207,883 apartments. Couldn't pick one, and it was pissing me off. We'd decide on one, two days later she's looking at more. Well, I figured out a way to get out of our current lease and transfer our deposit to a decent apt in this other city (it was owned by the same mgmt company. Because I'm smart.) It was the washing machine all over again. She'd either be indecisive or rash, I'd have to secretly handle the situation, and come to her with my successful results. After lots of bickering beforehand.

 

We got engaged last December. Again, I was fine not being married. I thought on some level it was good/healthy for me to have that trust in someone. I have friends in similar relationships, and I've always liked how they work and saw them as healthy potentially life-long relationships. The whole Goldie Hawn/Kurt Russel sort of thing. But, before we moved, she asked when I was going to marry her, and having been in many a discussion with friends about compromise in a relationship, I proposed to her. Broke, and with no ring, which she was fine with. We had a little engagement party with friends and made a big meal, it was really cool.

 

Right after we moved in January, a good friend of mine (friend of ours, really, but I knew him 15 years) killed himself. It was devastating to me. I felt responsible. I'd spent several months restoring a car in his garage, and he killed himself when I was otw to pick it up. I stayed drunk for a few months, just trying to cope. I've done that a few times in our relationship. I've also had difficulty smoking. I've always smoked, and I've always been trying to quit. I tried to hide it for awhile. I quit once for a month, about a year into our relationship. We got drunk, she bought a pack, claimed she wanted one. She smoked like someone who didn't know how to smoke (and I didn't have the heart to teach her, although I enjoyed them). Got off the wagon, and haha she wondered a week later why it was so easy for her to quit and not me. Haha. Ah that brings a tear to my eye. She went to France once for two weeks and brought me back a damn pack of Lucky Strikes. She's alternated between wanting me to quit and not caring whether I smoked. She's been in the "not caring" mood when I've smoked, but she seems to tend to not care if I smoke when I'm not smoking and trying to quit, and she wants me to quit when I'm hooked through the bag. That's the hard one, when you're smoking and she makes a comment about it. Of if you snuck one (hey, it's ONE, you pack a day hypocrites) and she instinctively knows, no matter how well you washed up, or showered, she'll spot me, walk up, and smell my lip. Thaaat, is very demeaning. She knows I won't lie to her, and if I do, we both know I'm a bad liar. A hilariously bad liar.

 

Well, I got a job after we moved. Part-time, but there was the potential for some really good money with this job. Didn't work out, but I still had a job, and the several other jobs I've applied for in recent months haven't worked out. We wanted to buy a house (something she'd blabbed about the entire time we rented, because "you throw your money away in rent" sort of thing). She was all about it, and wanted something small. Suddenly my grandparents offered to help with a down payment, and the houses she was looking at seemed to get more and more expensive. Nothing outrageous, but yea, out of our price range.

 

Maybe 3-4 months ago, she wanted a ring. She wanted to buy the ring, and I buy mine. When the ring she wanted cost $2k (her mom gets half off on this stuff, so this is a $4k ring), she handed me a card with the price on it "incase I wanted to get it for her". She'd get upset if I talked about getting a cheapie ring - at least until we could afford something more. This was within the last 6 weeks or so.

 

She pays the rent, mind you. I pay for all utilities, insurance and groceries. She has a tendency to buy things, and then be upset that I don't want to pay for them. She wanted a new tv, she bought it, and then was upset I didn't have money for the bill. I was fine with our old tv...

 

When our house didn't go through, she was at once angry, heartbroken, and satisfied. Heartbroken, understandable, of course. Due to a technicality, her income wouldn't count towards getting the mortgage, even though we have excellent credit, and mine wasn't enough by itself, so no house. Angry because my grandparents had suddenly become uninterested in the deal (I'd been looking at very low priced/reasonably priced homes, in contrast to her slightly higher priced ones...they became uninterested not long before we figured out we couldn't get the mortgage), and my grandparents have always thrown outrageous amounts of money at my sister who, about once a year, screws them over, at which point they call me bitching about it (and I love these conversations). I, the more responsible of the two, have never gotten these opportunities. And it hurt her to see that a lot. Everyone I know who knows about that double standard is angry about it. And, she was content because not buying a house would free us up to move when she finishes graduate school, if she gets a good job elsewhere. And I was totally open to moving. It was hard for her to get me to leave my hometown, although I needed to, and she was critical of me about it.

 

So, a month ago, the house deal fell through. It was hard for both of us. She became a bit distant. I've learned to deal with that sort of thing, somewhat. I laid down with her one night maybe ten days ago, and she said that she was afraid I only stayed with her because I'm a codependent guy. I told her there's a lot that I do on my own, and I love her for who she is, and it's not some glitch in my psyche. I admit, at times I've put up with a lot of crap. But I"m no day at the beach.

 

A week ago, she put her arms around me and said "we're gonna be okay" which is a thing we do sometimes. Saturday, she sat me down, a little coldly even though she was crying a little, and I had to piece it together and put words to it.

 

Eventually she said she thought we should spend some time apart, and see how we do. I told her I understand, and I want her to be happy. I was teetering on the brink of "okay" for a bit, but it gutted me. "no obligation" was the phrase she used.

 

When I was alone, I got a bit angry. I felt I'd done things that she wanted me to - not everything she wanted, not a doormat, but from time to time, yea. I'd done the things she'd wanted me to. I moved with her, I did the little housekeeper thing (even though it was therapeutic for me) that she seemed to want. I put off my standup at times because of her. And I've had to reassure her about that, because she's expressed worry that I would lose interest in her doing comedy.

 

Part of me felt used, and I never expected that. Not from her, not now. She has a good job now, and can make it until she graduates, at which point she'll have a better job. I felt that she doesn't need me.

 

This also bothers me because, among other things, we have a 2 1/2 yr old dog that I got for her as a puppy and I've gotten very close with. I know that if she goes she'll want to take her, and the dog doesn't like to be without me for long. But I understand that's a thing you have to figure out when and if it happens.

 

Yesterday, I bought her a dozen roses, her favorite Ben & Jerry's and her favorite cream soda. And, I made very passionate love to her when she came home (we tend to work different schedules). I told her that I loved her, and perhaps she should consider seeing a psychologist. I had been reading a lot of psychology over the last several months (something that from time to time bothered her, but I wanted to know about myself, be self aware), and I suggested to her that, if I have codependent tendencies, that it's likely that that says something about her personality as well. And she should look into it. I was very diplomatic about it, and I wanted to do it after making love, when I knew that she'd be receptive to something like that haha. She promised that she would.

 

But I'm afraid for our future. We've got four years in right now. I don't do well with a lot of girls. I don't want to replace her, I'm not interested in that. I never cared to date much, and neither did she. We worked well together because we came from very similar family backgrounds. It helped us to understand one another.

 

But like I said, I'm afraid for our future, and I've found myself losing some trust, and feeling a little alone. I don't like that her wanting to leave came when I'm broke, and she knows I"m broke. But I did leave the one time, after she was cold towards me, and it devastated her. She has described those events retrospectively as a sort of phase. It's definitely a mood swing of some sort that causes that. I know she has them, I've been aware of it. I don't like them, but I do love her.

 

I can be a smartass, and I love that part of me. But I cook her a good breakfast every morning and make her coffee before I wake her up, I pack her lunch before she goes. I drive her to school/work often. From time to time I've driven her to work on occasion through our relationship. She likes it, being able to spend a few extra minutes with me. I promised to not talk about her during a standup routine even though she is a goldmine of material. I paid the bills when she didn't have a job, even though I could get a bit testy doing that while dealing with her emotionally. We haven't had sex in awhile (other than what I said above) and she's apologized multiples times about it. I don't really care, I'm fine mostly. We'll have a dry spell every now and then, sometimes several weeks. It doesn't really bother me. Something she used to do a year-year and a half in, was try to be intimate to me after being an ******* to me, either immediately afterwards or when I came home from work or something. Right after she'd done something, want to have sex and not acknowledge what had happened. I wouldn't have it, I told her making love, to me, involves a lot more than sex. It's meaningless to me without the emotion. I mean I have urges, but my biology is tied some with my feelings for someone.

 

What do you guys think about all this? Do you think shes having a stress reaction? Has she emotionally manipulated me and bled me of usefulness (like the Sam Kinison song)? I mean...her wanting marriage, us making that commitment...going out of her way to say she doesn't want a big wedding ceremony...then she wants a ceremony (for the satisfaction of not inviting my father, which I understand), then wanting to wait for marriage until after grad school...now suddenly this, right now, and after several things have kind of not gone well? Is this a rough patch that will improve when I get a good job again (I have a few good opportunities right now, and we're making it financially) or what? What do you think?

 

I had a discussion with her. Told her I need to be financially independent, that it would be a good thing, that I want to get another decent paying job. I told her I would respect what she wants, but that I don't want to lose her.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Scooter1986

[oldshirt]

I wasn't able to read your whole post but in general terms whenever someone says, "..need a break," "we should try seeing other people," "I need a little space," "we should have a little time apart" etc etc etc It typically directly translates into - "I have someone else on the side that I want to try on for size but I want you to sit and wait on the shelf for me in case it doesn't work out."

 

At the very best it means they are having serious doubts about the future of the relationship are wanting to break off in incremental stages rather than just tearing the bandaid off. they want to have the space to be able to get back on the market and start seeing other people to see if they can do better.

 

At the worst it means they've already found someone else or have already made up their mind that you are out and this is their way to let you down easy.

 

IMHO the best thing for you to do is not plead and beg and cry and chase her around or try to reason with her. Attraction, desire and feelings about someone are not things that can be reasoned with. Best thing to do is give her a hug and wish her well and then start working on getting yourself together and getting yourself into a good place and get back on the market and start meeting people and getting to know people yourself.

 

You have a lot of baggage from your past and a lot of things going on in your life now. I know you want her in your life now but with her out of the way and having only yourself to worry about, you will be able to focus on getting yourself straightened out and focusing on you.

 

You said you haven't had much other success in dating but once you get some of your baggage squared away, get a self-supporting job and getting yourself fit and healthy and in a good place, you will be attractive to other women.

[veggirl]

Um wow. You do EVERYTHING for her. You cook, clean, pay the bills. What does she do? How has she put in her fair share?

 

She played you and used you for 4 years. and yeah now she has a good job and doesn't need you so she is ready to move on.

 

You both desperately sound like you need to be single. Your relationship sounds incredibly dysfunctional.

 

Don't try to kiss as$ when someone basically DUMPS you and reward that behavior with GIFTS. Have some self-respect. You seem to have no backbone when it comes to this chick, no one respects that in a partner. It gets old eventually.

 

You have both never experienced other relationships or partners, thank goodness your house deal fell through, damn good thing you aren't strapped into a house with her.

[Scooter1986]

I wasn't able to read your whole post but in general terms whenever someone says, "..need a break," "we should try seeing other people," "I need a little space," "we should have a little time apart" etc etc etc It typically directly translates into - "I have someone else on the side that I want to try on for size but I want you to sit and wait on the shelf for me in case it doesn't work out."

 

At the very best it means they are having serious doubts about the future of the relationship are wanting to break off in incremental stages rather than just tearing the bandaid off. they want to have the space to be able to get back on the market and start seeing other people to see if they can do better.

 

At the worst it means they've already found someone else or have already made up their mind that you are out and this is their way to let you down easy.

 

IMHO the best thing for you to do is not plead and beg and cry and chase her around or try to reason with her. Attraction, desire and feelings about someone are not things that can be reasoned with. Best thing to do is give her a hug and wish her well and then start working on getting yourself together and getting yourself into a good place and get back on the market and start meeting people and getting to know people yourself.

 

You have a lot of baggage from your past and a lot of things going on in your life now. I know you want her in your life now but with her out of the way and having only yourself to worry about, you will be able to focus on getting yourself straightened out and focusing on you.

 

You said you haven't had much other success in dating but once you get some of your baggage squared away, get a self-supporting job and getting yourself fit and healthy and in a good place, you will be attractive to other women.

 

I don't think she's seeing anyone. She doesn't mingle with any guys, and they tend to be put off by her - something that she acknowledges from time to time. She has a bit of a cold nature. I really really doubt it. But, I guess it could be possible.

 

I will let her do what she wants to do. And it'll hurt like hell. I'm a little confused, because in the past she's shown a lot of gratitude down the road, after I "chased her". By that I mean, made a serious effort to work things out with her, not actually chase her in any literal sense. If she was cold, and I said I'm not having it, or I'm leaving, and if I didn't have the codependent reaction, she wouldn't want me to leave. She'd get sad, sometimes a bit hysterical, and we'd work it out when she calmed down.

[Scooter1986]

Um wow. You do EVERYTHING for her. You cook, clean, pay the bills. What does she do? How has she put in her fair share?

 

She played you and used you for 4 years. and yeah now she has a good job and doesn't need you so she is ready to move on.

 

You both desperately sound like you need to be single. Your relationship sounds incredibly dysfunctional.

 

Don't try to kiss as$ when someone basically DUMPS you and reward that behavior with GIFTS. Have some self-respect. You seem to have no backbone when it comes to this chick, no one respects that in a partner. It gets old eventually.

 

You have both never experienced other relationships or partners, thank goodness your house deal fell through, damn good thing you aren't strapped into a house with her.

 

 

She pays the majority of the bills. Rent, and internet. And on occasion there have been a few things she has insisted on paying for. I pay the utilities and insurance - much smaller amount than what she pays. Which was the reason I picked up and started doing things around the apt. Not having money at the time, I looked at it as my contribution, seeing as she pays the rent. And that was a situation she was happy with for awhile. And the gifts thing....I'd read on a few forums that "doing little things" and "showing you care" like "buying her flowers" was a thing to do. Because I haven't done anything like that in awhile. I make her breakfast and pack her a lunch, but it takes 10-20 mins depending on what I make. She never wakes up in time to eat before she leaves, and I tend to wake up earlier. I used to write her little notes and stuff within the first few years of our relationship. She loved it.

 

One thing she's never done is cost me money. I paid the rent for a little bit when she didn't have a job or wasn't making enough. But we're talking no more than 6 mos total during our relationship, or, during the time we've been living together (3 yrs January).

 

As far as her using me, or playing me, I'm aware that's happened some (re: when she's done that "cold" attitude) when I needed some kind of love (some of the times I was in a codependent needy mood), but I have a hard time with that, because she was the one that explained to me my personality ticks. She told me how other people have emotionally manipulated me, and she has pointed out occasionally when she's done it herself.

 

She said Saturday something to the effect of "I can't love you like you need to be loved". She's said this from time to time through the years. I think maybe that was a moment of clarity. Like...god what a reference...when Vader killed the Emperor to help Luke, that sort of internal battle with oneself where she had to say it while she felt she had the clarity of mind.

 

This is all very hard to hear. As hard as this relationship has been at times, she taught me more about myself than any other person. She helped me figure myself out. And I wouldn't be seeing what's going on with her if not for that. And I'd still be in multiple emotionally manipulative relationships if she hadn't said, "Look, this is what you do, this is what you let them do, this is what they do."

Edited November 1, 2013 by Scooter1986

[veggirl]

Where did you read that you should buy gifts for someone who essentially dumps you?

 

Please read the break up forum, one great nugget of wisdom to keep in mind is that during this time, do the exact opposite of what your instinct is. Your instinct is to now chase her and beg her. Don't do it.

 

Also, you said this

Part of me felt used, and I never expected that. Not from her, not now. She has a good job now, and can make it until she graduates, at which point she'll have a better job. I felt that she doesn't need me.

[oldshirt]

I agree with Veggirl. Do NOT beg, plead, reason, negotiate, buy gifts or do ANYTHING to try to win her back.

 

And especially do NOT let her set you on the shelf to wait for her to come back!!!

 

If she wants out, and if she wants "space" that is fine and that is her right and her prerogative. But what is good for the goose is good for the gander. If she wants to get out on her own and work on herself and meet and date other people, that is her right. But she absolutely does not have the right ask you or expect you to sit patiently waiting for her (doubtful) return.

 

The second the door shuts behind her get out doing something fun and meeting new people (or reconnecting with old friends) and if some gal catches your eye, ask her out.

 

Either people are in a relationship or they are out. She is taking the "out" option so that means your slate is clear too. Get out and start living.

[Scooter1986]

Thank you all for your responses.

 

This is excruciatingly painful. We got each other through a lot. I've felt that way for some time, anyway.

 

Thanks for your tactfulness in not insulting her, or me. What I feel right now is really indescribable. But you know exactly what I'm talking about.

[oldshirt]

 

However, letting your girlfriend/fiancee' have the freedom to "explore her options" may result in her being even more committed to you. A time apart may help you both grow as individuals and examine whether you really are best for each other and able to freely commit to the rest of your lives together. If she doesn't have time to sort it out now, away from you, she may resent it after your married. You don't want your wife to always wonder if she shouldn't have dated more. "Breathing room" doesn't have to mean breaking up.

 

There was a time when I used to believe that. In fact I have even given almost that exact same speech to a few women over the years....... as I was leaving them to date others.

 

...and it's been over 20-some years and I still haven't come back to them. should they still hold out some hope????

 

I don't mean to be quite as sarcastic and arrogant as that may sound, you may have a little bit of a valid point in there somewhere. People do grow and mature and evolve over time, I get that.

 

People have the right to go off and do their self-discovery and their personal growth on their own and they have the right to dump people they don't wish to continue to be in a relationship with.

 

What they don't have the right to do is to ask anyone to sit on the shelf and wait for them nor do they have the right to imply that they will be back and can continue the relationship after they've had their little fling with freedom.

 

Either your in the relationship or out of it. If you choose to be out that's fine, just say you are out and let the other person have the same freedom. Don't pussyfoot around and imply that you may be back or ask them to be patient or ask them to wait or ask them to put their life on hold in any way shape or form.

 

Now I didn't read his whole manifesto and don't know if she asked him to wait or not, but any time someone uses the words "break" or "space" or "time away" or anything like that, they are implying that they may be back and want to resume the R.

 

That's bullcrap, either break it clean and exit stage left or do your personal growth and development within the relationship. don't leave someone hanging on.

[oldshirt]

Now I realize the dumpers are always going to find little euphamisms and other ways to soften the blow and try not to hurt the dumpees any more than possible.

 

But the reason I'm on such a tangent is I want the dumpees to be able to draw a line in the sand and say, "you can have all the space you want but when door closes behind you, you are on your own and the locks are getting changed and I am moving on with your life and I won't be here as your backup plan when your new stud gets done pumping and dumping ya.

 

I realize there are couples that reunite 10, 20, 30 and even 50 years later and good for them. Just don't sit on the shelf marking time for 50 years waiting for them to do it. Don't sit on the shelf for week for that matter.

 

If someone needs 'space' and wants to come back after they've had their break and after the new stud/honey didn't pan out, they are just going to have to roll the dice and take their chances that their side of the bed is now occupied and that there may not be any vacancies for them for a long long long time if ever.

[Scooter1986]

Call me crazy, but I did read your whole post. I'm guessing that writing things down helps you find clarity, and that you're open to analyzing the various things that cause you both to react the way you do. That's healthy for any relationship.

 

What seems clear is that you both have invested a lot of years, time, and energy into each other. Anytime there's been exclusive bonding, there's fear of losing that intimacy. However, letting your girlfriend/fiancee' have the freedom to "explore her options" may result in her being even more committed to you. A time apart may help you both grow as individuals and examine whether you really are best for each other and able to freely commit to the rest of your lives together. If she doesn't have time to sort it out now, away from you, she may resent it after your married. You don't want your wife to always wonder if she shouldn't have dated more. "Breathing room" doesn't have to mean breaking up.

 

Keep us posted ~ just in smaller doses, ok?

 

I will. Thanks. After this, I'm not sure how I feel. I think there may be someone else. Others suggested that. I looked into it, and there's evidence for that. But I haven't drawn any conclusions. If she is seeing someone, I couldn't trust her anymore or ever again. I would never cheat on her, and she made it clear that it would crush her, and that she would never ever cheat on me.

[Clay]

Dont assume. Get facts. Find out before you make any moves. Key Loggers phone tracking software ect. The last thing you want to do is accuse if you have no basis. You will do more damage than you realize.

 

Hope you can work this out. If you find out in the end she wants just to be separate then just do it. Never hurts to leave on good terms.

 

 

Clay

[Scooter1986]

*sigh*

 

Came home tonight from work, having been up all night last night stressing. After getting into a conversation with my girl, she calmly told me that when she told me we weren't working together and needed time apart, she meant that I'm needy and codependent. And that I need to stop doing that.

 

She said she doesn't care if I do the dishes, the laundry, etc - that I think she cares, but she doesn't actually care if the apartment is a mess. She told me to focus on me and what I want in my life, rather than her, and that I've been draining her.

 

She wasn't breaking things off with me. Apparently there was a point to our being alone. It was actually for me to grow as a person. She wasn't BSing with that. I thought that that was a euphemism and that she was trying to let me down easy.

 

My girlfriend can be independent and cold at times, but I feel like an *******.

[TobyBoy]

Sounds like the other guy got what he wanted then dumped your fiancé. So now it's back to option #2....at least till someone better comes along.

[oldshirt]

*sigh*

 

Came home tonight from work, having been up all night last night stressing. After getting into a conversation with my girl, she calmly told me that when she told me we weren't working together and needed time apart, she meant that I'm needy and codependent. And that I need to stop doing that.

 

She said she doesn't care if I do the dishes, the laundry, etc - that I think she cares, but she doesn't actually care if the apartment is a mess. She told me to focus on me and what I want in my life, rather than her, and that I've been draining her.

 

She wasn't breaking things off with me. Apparently there was a point to our being alone. It was actually for me to grow as a person. She wasn't BSing with that. I thought that that was a euphemism and that she was trying to let me down easy.

 

My girlfriend can be independent and cold at times, but I feel like an *******.

 

 

She is correct, you need to start building a life of your own and have goals and dreams and such of your own and you need to pursue them. She may follow along with you in that journey as long as you aren't suffocating her.

 

Here's a concept you need to understand and this is something a lot of guys don't get. Women like having servants and they like having butlers and maids and errand boys that wait on them hand and foot and do things for them ...

 

BUT........

 

They aren't sexually attracted to them. In fact being the maid/butler/servant/errand boy to a woman is the fastest way in the world to slam her pu$$y shut, lock it and throw away the key.

 

Women instinctively are attracted to the Lord of the Manor and NOT the servant. Women are most attracted to men that DONT NEED THEM.

 

As long as you are waiting on her and living for her and serving her, she is not going to be romantically/sexually attracted to you.

 

You seriously need to get your $hit together and stop being whiney and needy and emotionally dependent. If it takes letting this chick go and hitting rock bottom in despair for you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and get a life and pursue some of your own passions and become an independent, self-driving adult male, then go ahead and do it.

 

very often, women will say one thing but mean something completely different. I think in this instance she has been as up front as she can in telling you what you need to do. You just have to come up with the drive to actually do it.

 

If you need some kind of shrink, counselor or life coach to accomplish that, it would probably be money well spent.

[oldshirt]

*sigh*

 

 

 

She wasn't breaking things off with me. Apparently there was a point to our being alone. It was actually for me to grow as a person. She wasn't BSing with that. I thought that that was a euphemism and that she was trying to let me down easy.

 

.

 

People don't "grow as a person" over the course of a few days. A couple days away may give you a bit of a wake-up call that there is some serious going on that needs serious attention ASAP but things are fixed and hunky-dory in two days.

 

At best this was A, your wake up call and your, "you-better-get-your-$hit-together-yesterday" notice or B, her other dude has already given her the pump and dump and she is coming back to her safety net to regroup and try again. (try again in finding someone else)

 

Whether it is A or B, it all boils down to you need to get it together and start becoming more self-sustaining and self-driven and independent and stop relying on her for your existence.

[oldshirt]

People don't "grow as a person" over the course of a few days. A couple days away may give you a bit of a wake-up call that there is some serious going on that needs serious attention ASAP but things are fixed and hunky-dory in two days.

 

At best this was A, your wake up call and your, "you-better-get-your-$hit-together-yesterday" notice or B, her other dude has already given her the pump and dump and she is coming back to her safety net to regroup and try again. (try again in finding someone else)

 

Whether it is A or B, it all boils down to you need to get it together and start becoming more self-sustaining and self-driven and independent and stop relying on her for your existence.

 

 

In other words, her saying she's not dumping you means that she's not leaving with all her stuff TODAY.

 

But that you are on notice and on probation that if you don't do 180 degrees immediately and start getting your act together, she will be gone tomorrow or next Tuesday or by the next weekend or whenever it is that the final straw comes.

 

This was your warning and your wake up call. Either heed it and start taking definitive and decisive action or help her pack her stuff up and load it into her other dude's truck.

[Scooter1986]

Guys, telling me that the girl I live with is banging another guy is not only unfounded, it's apt to make me or someone either paranoid or extremely depressed.

 

A more appropriate response might be, based on what you know, "You seem clingy, she seems to be a fairly independent person. One or both will have to bend in order for this to work."

 

There's evidence she's lost or is losing interest in me, as some have pointed out. Wanting to not be with me does not indicate that she's having sex on the hood of my car, screaming with pleasure at the thought of me finding out.

 

I'm more than annoyed that people are making that leap.

[Woggle]

For whatever reason she is gearing up to leave you so speed up the process.

[Scooter1986]

Jesus you guys. It's like I reported my cat missing, and the immediately response from some is, "Ya know" *spits* "If I was a bettin' man, I'd say your cat was raped and murdered."

 

...why would you think that?

 

 

For those that said she's planning to leave, it's possible. We don't keep things from one another. So maybe her nudging me from time to time has put her in a situation where she didn't want to hurt my feelings, but I need to figure some things out with or without her.

[TobyBoy]

I think there may be someone else. Others suggested that. I looked into it, and there's evidence for that. But I haven't drawn any conclusions.

Enlighten us then....What is this evidence you have uncovered?

[Polak]

I won't join the crowd and say that your girlfriend is definitely with someone else, but considering you yourself admitted it could be a possibility keeps that in the equation. I agree with oldshirt though... You have to back off a bit (or more than that) and take time to focus on yourself. During this process, prepare mentally for the worst. Because if you aren't at least partially prepared, then IF something were to happen where she leaves you, you're going to have a serious breakdown. You can't have that right now. Back off, and slowly start to work on yourself. Improving your spirits despite negativity, re-evaluating how you do daily tasks, trying new things, etc. Once you get some traction on this you will notice, and it will become easier. Not only that, but things will progress however they are destined to progress with your gf.

 

As mentioned before, keep us posted. You got this.

[Scooter1986]

Enlighten us then....What is this evidence you have uncovered?

 

I forgot I posted that. My apologies. Seeing a guy doesn't necessarily mean she's having sex with a dude. I meant more along the lines of speaking to someone. I just doubt she'd do something like that. I could see someone getting the chance to get their foot in the door, but she's always had standards. She'd think that was trashy. The evidence is a shred, at best.

 

Several google searches of someone in one of her grad school classes and a LinkedIn search, two days before this talk last Saturday.

 

I got snoopy, because I don't know. All I found was one month old email about a group project, and one the following day of her sending him a link pertaining to a class discussion.

 

That's it. So perhaps this guy was coming on to her during a project or afterwards, and he was fairly charming, and she figured to learn more about him wouldn't be any harm. But, she may have been looking for a website he created as part of the class project and during the google search clicked on his LinkedIn out of curiosity.

 

She doesn't seem secretive, she never has been. But you never know. I wouldn't be here talking to strangers if I thought I had all the information.

[oldshirt]

Whether she's doing someone else or not at this point doesn't really matter in the long run. You need to work on you and get your act together and get a life whether she has actually done the deed with someone else yet or not.

 

She's frustrated with you and is disengaging with you. What she has told you to your face is congruent with what everyone here has been telling you. the course of action you need to take is pretty much the same at this point whether there is 3rd party involvement or not.

[Scooter1986]

I think that I have been a toxic boyfriend. I didn't mean to. I wasn't conscious of it. But I've been self-centered and I pushed her away.

 

I don't know if I can get her back. Trying might push her away further.

 

I don't think she really did anything wrong and that I've gradually gotten myself into this position. I feel really terrible now seeing myself this way, and I'm afraid my self-consciousness shows.