Nation of single moms: correlated to rise in BPD?

[M30USA]

Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers. Therefore, can we conclude that the rise in single motherhood in the USA is contributing to the observed rise in BPD? I say there is a definite strong correlation, but there might be other factors as well.

 

Note: I'm mostly referring to the family court norm of women receiving primary custody when there is a perfectly good father--not cases where the father leaves by choice and doesn't want his children.

Edited November 6, 2013 by M30USA

[vanillacrow]

So if we're going to divorce and he's a good father, I should let him have primary custody and go for the role-reverse to become Disneyland mommy?

[M30USA]

So if we're going to divorce and he's a good father, I should let him have primary custody and go for the role-reverse to become Disneyland mommy?

 

70% of divorces are initiated by women. In light of this fact, I believe your comment loses 70% of its relevance.

[aussietigerwolf]

bahahahaha *passes around popcorn*

[Yarrow]

Short answer: no, we cannot.

 

Show your reasoning:

1. Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers. Logical fallacy demonstrated - cum hoc ergo propter hoc - a.k.a. Correlation does not equal causation.

2. Therefore, can we conclude that the rise in single motherhood in the USA is contributing to the observed rise in BPD? Logical fallacy demonstrated - Post hoc ergo propter hoc - a.k.a. faulty cause and effect.

3. Bonus - Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers. Citation needed. I have not actually seen that listed as one of the risk factors in the literature.

[trippi1432]

bahahahaha *passes around popcorn*

 

Short answer: no, we cannot.

 

Show your reasoning:

1. Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers. Logical fallacy demonstrated - cum hoc ergo propter hoc - a.k.a. Correlation does not equal causation.

2. Therefore, can we conclude that the rise in single motherhood in the USA is contributing to the observed rise in BPD? Logical fallacy demonstrated - Post hoc ergo propter hoc - a.k.a. faulty cause and effect.

3. Bonus - Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers. Citation needed. I have not actually seen that listed as one of the risk factors in the literature.

 

Yarrow!! Love it! Critical Thinking was my favorite class and I guess, based on the fallacies of this post, not a f'ing bit of it made sense to me.

Defo need that citation as I would be interested in this research....

 

Can someone please pass the popcorn?? :lmao:

[M30USA]

Hey, OP - maybe, since you seem to believe this is true, it might be a good idea for you to move near to where your children live and see them more often than every other weekend, or one weekend a month, or whatever it is now. So you don't contribute to their catching BPD by being an absent father.

 

You've said before that you and your ex were granted joint custody, but for some reason you don't choose to move near to where your children live. Why.

 

Sorry but I can't discuss this due to the chance that my ex might be searching this site. I have recently toned down the amount of info I give for this reason. I value my children, have not missed a single day of possession, and hope to maximize it. Take care.

[M30USA]

Citation:

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/black-womens-health-and-happiness/201108/borderline-personality-disorder-whos-risk-what-suffe-0

 

I read more than you can imagine. I don't recall exactly what source I first found this fact in, but I've come across it more than once. This was just a quick google search. I had incorrectly assumed that most people were aware of this fact which I considered basic. Cheers.

Edited November 6, 2013 by M30USA

[lollipopspot]

Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers...

 

Citation:

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/black-womens-health-and-happiness/201108/borderline-personality-disorder-whos-risk-what-suffe-0

 

Your citation makes no distinction between single mother families and single father families, so if there's a custody issue, you haven't shown that kids would fare better with their father than mother.

 

"Single, head-of household, with children" is more than just a biostatistical measure; it is potentially a contributor to psychological damage to the child or children involved, and that fact needs to be brought to the fore, hence this post.

 

But I do think that parents of young children should do everything possible to be together to raise their children. I'd have to blame both parties equally this - both men and women choose each other to have sex with. If you can't imagine staying with this person in the event of pregnancy, either don't have sex, or use extra birth control.

 

....

 

Note: I'm mostly referring to the family court norm of women receiving primary custody when there is a perfectly good father--not cases where the father leaves by choice and doesn't want his children.

 

Most custody cases are not decided by the courts. And, despite the hype, I'm not convinced that the courts unfairly bias mothers in custody cases. It seems to be based on history of parenting and preference.

 

the majority of child custody cases are not decided by the courts. In 51% of the cases both parents agreed that mom be the custodial parent. In 29% of the cases the decision was made without any third party involvement. Only 11% of custody cases were decided during mediation with as few as 5% being decided after court order custody evaluations.

 

In cases where both parents decided, without involvement from a mediator or the court 83% of the time the mother ended up with custody because the father chose to give her custody.

Child Custody: There Is No Gender Bias During Custody Decisions

 

It is filled with tales of women who were the primary earners in a marriage, and who watched their husbands gain primary physical custody of their children when the marriage ended. There are now 2.2 million divorced women in the United States who do not have primary physical custody of their children, and an estimated 50 percent of fathers who seek such custody in a disputed divorce are granted it.

http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/17/more-fathers-getting-custody-in-divorce/?_r=1

[GuyInLimbo]

Nowhere in that article do I see anything but a hypothesis. Abandonment trauma has many faces.

 

My ex-GF, for example, is Chinese. Her parents used to lock her in a dark garage to punish her. Her parents are still together. It was that simple, repeated act that destroyed her, in what you'd think is an otherwise loving family. In fact, they were/are a nice family. And when she went for therapy and confronted her mom, her mom was devastated to realize what she had done. It was out of simple ignorance by a young mom.

[hotgurl]

I think your title should read nation of absentee dads instead of nation of single mothers.

 

It is not like she got pregnant by herself.

[M30USA]

People, do a basic search on your own. It's been known for a long time (and not even denied by feminists) that children with absent or non-existent fathers are more likely to: 1) be jailed, 2) develop psycho and sociopathology, and 3) specifically develop BPD. For the first two, it is not just an absent parent, in general, but an absent father. For the third one, its not yet proven if it's specifically the father or just an absent parent overall. But given the evidence for first two, many psychologists guess it's due to absent fathers. I agree with them. Have great day!

[hotgurl]

People, do a basic search on your own. It's been known for a long time (and not even denied by feminists) that children with absent or non-existent fathers are more likely to: 1) be jailed, 2) develop psycho and sociopathology, and 3) specifically develop BPD. For the first two, it is not just an absent parent, in general, but an absent father. For the third one, its not yet proven if it's specifically the father or just an absent parent overall. But given the evidence for first two, many psychologists guess it's due to absent fathers. I agree with them. Have great day!

 

For a moment lets assume this is true. Why blame the moms who are there raising the kids. Does the fault not lie with the dads who choose to walk away?

[KathyM]

The black community has long been afflicted with the problem of absentee fathers/single mothers. This is nothing new. BPD is thought to be caused from a combination of a genetic predisposition to the illness combined with a childhood where the child was physically or sexually abused. I did research on the disorder and a presentation in one of my classes, and that is what the research shows: a combination of genetic predisposition and physical or sexual abuse as a child is correlated with BPD.

[Clay]

I can see why there are people that have these problems. Where the woman is home with the kids but I don't see this in my state. When I divorced my xW I took the kids. I had to other children from a previous relationship and I have custody of them as well. My brother kept custody of his son. I worked with two guys over the last 4 years that retrained custody of there kids as well. I feel bad for woman that do take the backseat in a relationship and then the Spouse leaves them with the full responsibility but I can tell you honestly my xW does not really support my kids. I buy all there clothes. I make sure they have all the things she needs. She was recently forced by the courts to pay more than 50 a month for two kids and you would have thought she was dieing on the court house steps. My brothers xW never even paid child support for the 9 years he had him.

 

Clay

[Keenly]

I think your title should read nation of absentee dads instead of nation of single mothers.

 

It is not like she got pregnant by herself.

 

And its also not Like she couldn't look around and say " can I really do this ? "

 

 

Maybe we could save this crap for the pregnancy thread instead of the single mom causing AIDS or whatever.

[Mr. Lucky]

People, do a basic search on your own. It's been known for a long time (and not even denied by feminists) that children with absent or non-existent fathers are more likely to: 1) be jailed, 2) develop psycho and sociopathology, and 3) specifically develop BPD. For the first two, it is not just an absent parent, in general, but an absent father. For the third one, its not yet proven if it's specifically the father or just an absent parent overall. But given the evidence for first two, many psychologists guess it's due to absent fathers. I agree with them. Have great day!

So is your thinking:

 

70% divorces initiated by women = single moms = rise in BPD, therefore women responsible for BPD???

 

Mr. Lucky

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

People, do a basic search on your own. It's been known for a long time (and not even denied by feminists) that children with absent or non-existent fathers are more likely to: 1) be jailed, 2) develop psycho and sociopathology, and 3) specifically develop BPD. For the first two, it is not just an absent parent, in general, but an absent father. For the third one, its not yet proven if it's specifically the father or just an absent parent overall. But given the evidence for first two, many psychologists guess it's due to absent fathers. I agree with them. Have great day!

 

 

Sorry, but I don't think an absentee parent can make anyone "become" a psychopath. These people are born with different functioning brains.

 

The reason for the correlation is because it is a genetic trait passed on by a psychopath parent or grandparent. The psychopath parent is abusive/neglectful/absent. The abuse didn't cause the condition.

 

So there are really three ways to look at it...

 

1. The dysfunctional child was always going to have a personality disorder passed on genetically from a dysfunctional parent who has a disorder.

 

2. The "normal" parent was absent/neglectful/abusive and it changed how the child's brain functions in regards to emotion.

 

3. It was completely random and the child just got unlucky.

 

I would say #1 is most likely. I don't believe #2 can even create the sociopath/psychopath.

 

As for BPD... I'm still confused as to what causes it. I have it and it I'm the only person in my family, relatives included that has it. I was not neglected or abused or have an absentee parent.

 

It's the nature vs. nurture debate and I'm on the side of nature.

[ponchsox]

What's more alarming is this rising feminine movement where women don't need a father around and they look down on men except for sexual needs. They have a kid, father leaves, and they become Disney mommies and don't need or have time for a responsible man.

[almond]

Borderline Personality Disorder has already been proven to be correlated to absent or non-existent fathers.

 

Correlation does not imply causation. (I wish I had a dollar for every time I'd said or written that!)

 

Therefore, can we conclude that the rise in single motherhood in the USA is contributing to the observed rise in BPD?

 

Absolutely not. Again, correlation does not imply causation.

 

I say there is a definite strong correlation, but there might be other factors as well.

 

Strong correlation?

 

It's not that there "might" be other factors - there are other factors. The etiology of BPD is multifactorial - this is fact.

 

I suggest you do a bit more reading into the disorder as a whole, rather than focus on one specific angle that appeals to you. That way, your next thread or conversation on the subject can be a little more balanced, and may even facilitate reasonable discussion

[M30USA]

Sorry, but I don't think an absentee parent can make anyone "become" a psychopath. These people are born with different functioning brains.

 

The reason for the correlation is because it is a genetic trait passed on by a psychopath parent or grandparent. The psychopath parent is abusive/neglectful/absent. The abuse didn't cause the condition.

 

So there are really three ways to look at it...

 

1. The dysfunctional child was always going to have a personality disorder passed on genetically from a dysfunctional parent who has a disorder.

 

2. The "normal" parent was absent/neglectful/abusive and it changed how the child's brain functions in regards to emotion.

 

3. It was completely random and the child just got unlucky.

 

I would say #1 is most likely. I don't believe #2 can even create the sociopath/psychopath.

 

As for BPD... I'm still confused as to what causes it. I have it and it I'm the only person in my family, relatives included that has it. I was not neglected or abused or have an absentee parent.

 

It's the nature vs. nurture debate and I'm on the side of nature.

 

Sociopathology, according to the psychologists, is specifically linked to an absent father, not an absent mother. The only thing up for debate is WHY. That's where the "correlation" question comes in.

[M30USA]

Correlation does not imply causation. (I wish I had a dollar for every time I'd said or written that!)

 

 

 

Absolutely not. Again, correlation does not imply causation.

 

 

 

Strong correlation?

 

It's not that there "might" be other factors - there are other factors. The etiology of BPD is multifactorial - this is fact.

 

I suggest you do a bit more reading into the disorder as a whole, rather than focus on one specific angle that appeals to you. That way, your next thread or conversation on the subject can be a little more balanced, and may even facilitate reasonable discussion

 

Your points may seem cogent until you acknowledge the fact that psychology operates almost entirely on correlation and almost never on causation as the hard sciences do. All of the risk factors and causes of BPD are merely correlations, if you want to nit pick. So what does that leave is with? Nothing

 

Secondly, you can spout out the correlation/causation mantra all you want, but I'm still entitled to theorize. That's how all advances in knowledge are made. By theorizing. Would you have poo-pooed Einstein by saying, "You can't assume that the correlation between light and time is necessarily a causation?" No you wouldn't. Correlations are generally discovered first. Then causations, if true, follow after.

Edited November 6, 2013 by M30USA

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Sociopathology, according to the psychologists, is specifically linked to an absent father, not an absent mother. The only thing up for debate is WHY. That's where the "correlation" question comes in.

 

You mean an absent father with sociopathy who passed it on genetically to his child.

 

And who are "the psychologists"? This issue is being debated and there is not a consensus so I don't see how you assume you are on the "winning" side.

 

An absentee father does not cause brain damage. Without brain damage, the emotional center of the brain would not shut down and cease to function. A person might put up a wall, act out, misbehave, have ptsd, withdraw... but completely lose the ability to feel emotion? Nope.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I don't know what kind of quacks you get your info from. I've read a great deal about personality disorders, too, and the info I got was that psychopathy is genetic and can be seen on a brain scan. It was even dubbed "The Warrior Gene"

 

With that part of your knowledge being incorrect, your premise for the causes of BPD are just as incorrect.

[Yarrow]

Secondly, you can spout out the correlation/causation mantra all you want, but I'm still entitled to theorize. That's how all advances in knowledge are made. By theorizing. Would you have poo-pooed Einstein by saying, "You can't assume that the correlation between light and time is necessarily a causation?" No you wouldn't. Correlations are generally discovered first. Then causations, if true, follow after.

 

So far, this is the only thing you got right. You can theorize. You cannot conclude.

 

In the medical world, even psychiatrists need 2 things. 1) You need high quality data. 2) You need a logical interpretation of that data. This particular conclusion has neither.

 

I'm curious as to why you've chosen to theorize about these 2 particular issues together. That you are sore about not being around your kids is obvious, even understandable. But why BPD? As far as psychiatric diagnoses go, it's not even that common. Not super rare, but not common. Most people will probably meet a handful of borderlines in their lifetimes, and it will probably be quite memorable, due to the dramatic nature of the condition. (And since we like to be technical, the NIMH pegs the prevalence as about 1.4%. NIMH · National Survey Tracks Prevalence of Personality Disorders in U.S. Population. I don't see any comment about rates rising either, but that doesn't seem to have been within the scope of this particular survey. I haven't heard anything about the rates rising.) Just as a comparison, depression is far more common. You probably run into a depressed person a few times a week or even a few times a day, depending on how often you get out. Even PTSD is more common. ADHD is the trendy thing to make up wild theories about these days. So why BPD? Does it have some special significance to you? Does BPD run in your family or something?