Use of, "God",'s name........

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

Is this a personal attack now?

No, it's not personal at all.

 

At this point, I don't care whether you agree with me or not, religionwise.

 

I do think your tirade is ridiculous, and hope people don't take you seriously. Tirades like these are the reasons why many people avoid Christianity, and that saddens me. I think you're taking the Lord's name in vain, by using it for this kind of narcissism.

 

As far as the intelligence/breeding thing, that's not about you at all--I made it clear it's a generalization. When I grow up, I'm going to have a lot more kids than 5. I'm not saying you're stupid, or anything else like that, and when I do insult you, it will be both direct and justified--see above.

For someone who doesn't like self-righteousness, is it normal to display so much of it?

You're confusing righteousness with being right--there's no way you can turn this around on me here, you're totally making a spectacle of yourself, and trying to pass it off as piety when it's nothing more than vanity.

[HokeyReligions]

You know I love a good religious debate!

 

Dyer, you do know a lot about the history and practices of Christianity -- I've learned a lot from you. I *think* I can see your point about self-righteousness because I have felt that way toward many Christians who have tried to talk me into their way of belief under the umbrella of "witnessing" to me. It very nearly turned me totally against Christianity for a while, and I allowed myself to become defensive. Not all Christians (even fundamentalists) are like that.

 

Moose, I can see some value in this thread because it might encourage people to think about the words and phrases they use in specific situations. I don't mean it will change anyone, but someone might pause when talking to a group of "known Christians" and not use a phrase with which they would otherwise have no problem. That would just show respect for the people they are around.

 

Here on an Internet forum like this one, the use of phrases like 'God help me' is a totally different context and can probably be assumed to Not mean they are calling on God for help, but merely expressing a strong sentiment.

 

I was taught to never, ever say God or Jesus in any context other than a prayer or plea TO God or Jesus. Even though I am no longer a Christian, old habits persist. I do use those names as words sometimes though and they don't hold the same power over my emotions that they once held -- namely fear of burning in Hell for all eternity. I don't say them at work because I don't want to offend people--it's respect for the people around me who might be offended. But in social or cyber-social interactions I have no qualms with their use because they are, or can be, words of power or of expressing powerful emotions. I never used to say the "F" word either, but that comes out of my mouth with far more frequency than it probably should!

 

If I were a devout Christian I might approach a post that began with "God help me" by asking the poster if they are really asking for God's help, and offering to pray with them or talk with them about God in PMs rather than on the forum. Give them the opportunity to say "I appreciate the offer, but that's really not what I'm looking for right now" and that might avoid upset or anger on both sides.

 

 

Dyer said: I think the way I view Christianity is smart, and smart people share my view.

I think this is how we all view our our opinions on some subjects. Especially topics like religion and politics. You prefaced your statement with "I think" so I don't take this as anything other than your opinion and you are displaying your self-confidence in your opinion, and that is a good thing.

 

 

Part of this conversation reminds me of something my oh-so-racist MIL said once (and this is NOT directed to ANYONE posting here): "If they were smart, they wouldn't be [black] (only she didn't use the word 'black' you can guess what word she used.) I tolerate her because she is my husband's mother and hubby and I adore her husband (who is not racist--at least not so you would notice) and I am a decent person who understands there is more to a person than their racism. I am grateful that she did abandon my husband when he was a child and did not raise him because of this. In a way her abuse of him when he was young helped him to see her flaws, racism being one of them. That's a topic for a different discussion though!

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by HokeyReligions

Here on an Internet forum like this one, the use of phrases like 'God help me' is a totally different context and can probably be assumed to Not mean they are calling on God for help, but merely expressing a strong sentiment.

And for the love of god, Moose knows this. Anyone who has a familiarity with English understands totally nonreligious (and gasp! nonchristian) usages of the word god.

 

Of all the threads concerning religon I've ever read, this is by far the most sickening. I think Pocky said it best, it gives Christianity a bad name. Spectacles like this are precisely why the word "Christian" has become a slur in America today.

[whichwayisup]

Here on an Internet forum like this one, the use of phrases like 'God help me' is a totally different context and can probably be assumed to Not mean they are calling on God for help, but merely expressing a strong sentiment.

 

And for the love of god

 

I am not a religious person, but I have said both of the above, and oh my god on numerous occasions. I guess it all depends on how it is used and in what context. I received some horrible news recently and my first words out of my mouth were, "Oh my god, I'm so sorry to hear...." That is an expression, I am not taking the name in vain.

 

On a side note here, my beef with SOME people that I have met in my lifetime (this is NOT directed at anyone on this site as I don't personally know you all) that are religious have a certain 'quality' in them that makes them feel like they are better people than those who do not practice any religion at all. Just because I do not go to church, pray to god etc., does not make me any less of a good person than someone who does go to church. This really irkes me as I had a good upbringing, my parents were loving and supportive, generous and kind. They passed those qualities to us and I know I am a good honest giving, loving person and am quite spiritual and open minded about alot of things in life. So why is it that 'some' religious people think they are better than those who don't practice any religion? Just wondering on this one and again, none of my thoughts is directed anyone on this site, just my own personal experiences at work and life in general.

[RowanRavyn]

I have been sitting here five minutes trying to figure out how to respond.

 

I think it is presumptuous to assume on a public board that anyone is of a particular religious bent solely based on a phrase. I also think that it is self-righteous and narcissistic to then pummel the person when they didn't meet up to a standard they didn't know they were being measured against.

 

Christianity, as it has been pointed out repeatedly, does not have the copyright to the word "god" capitol or lowercase. One could assume that if this original poster said "Oh my god please help me." They might be referring to a god that they worship. Hence the use of the word "MY".

 

Most likely they were just turning a phrase.

 

Moose and Dyer, I don't think I have ever known two people more sincere about their beliefs. I also believe that Dyer engages us more often than not to become more educated and to test his belief system. If there is something more correct out there he is just begging for someone to prove it to him.

 

Moose, from your posts I get the feeling that you are insulted everytime someone challenges your beliefs, its not you personally they are challenging. The nice thing about having what you believe questioned is that it gives you the opportunity to refine your beliefs and become more sure of them. Just like fire purifies gold.

[moimeme]

Ah, Rowan! Just when I start getting fed up with a lot of the garbooge on LS, there's folks like you to interject a breath of wisdom (Dyer's just a given in that regard )

 

but when you're in the presence of Christians, and are aware of their presence, do you refrain from using God's name as a word? Or as a figure of speech? It's only common courtesy, at least, that's what I think.

 

Again, Moose, remember to remove the log from your eye rather than concentrating on the motes in everyone else's. You'll find yourself much less stressed out if you quit setting up rules for the rest of the world to follow and then getting mad because it doesn't

 

Every Christian I have met has come off as a religious fanatic to me

 

Correction, please. I'll warrant that you know many more Christians than you realize. However there is a group of Christians who do behave this way. They are the fundamentalists. Like fundamentalists of every religious bent, they tend to turn people off the belief system as a whole because of their unpleasant behaviour.

 

Hopefully, people will sooner or later understand that fundamentalists of every religion constitute the minority and therefore do not represent the entire belief system. There are more Christians than there are people of any other belief on the planet - clearly we're not all fundamentalists.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by RowanRavyn

Just like fire purifies gold.

It's funny you should mention that, because I bought a Gold Rolex from an officially licensed Rolex Street Vendor, and when I got it *near* an open flame, it didn't purify the gold. Actually, the Gold melted right off. I contacted Rolex, but they didn't get back to me.

 

There's no metaphor there by the way, I just felt like sharing.

 

And thanks for saying that Rowan, you're welcome to eat from my loaf and drink from my cup any time.

[Moose]

Rowan,

Thanks a bunch. That was well said and I appreciate it.

 

I guess what really bothers me is that I feel that most people on the Shack, ( Especiallly Dyer and Moi ), come off to me as if they believe I'm part of the extreme fundamental Christian Crusade, and that I have an attitude that I'm holier than everyone else.

 

What is the matter with someone who questions others about the use of the word, "god", stating how he feels about it, and then getting feedback from others?

 

It's natural for me to hold my tongue, even in a situation in which WWIU described, it is my preference to exercise that ounce of prevention ConfusedinOC speaks about. That's not to say that I expect others to follow suit, <<<<<<<NOR>>>>>>>>> Does it mean I place everyone else below me, <<<<<<<<<<NOR>>>>>>>>>> Does it mean I feel above anyone else!!

 

So does that make me the extreme fundamentalist that some, ( I think ), believe I am?

 

I have sins in my life, some worse than others, but no more or less than anyone else. There is nothing wrong with the way I interpret the Bible, <<<<<<<<<<<<NOR>>>>>>>>>>, is there anything wrong with my personal interpretations of Spiritualism.

 

Certain people, ( You know who you are ), will argue that to the ground with all their facts and figures and shout in my face, and in front of a crowd non the less, how wrong I am and how ignorant I am, then have the balls to say that, I'M the one preaching holier than thou, self-righteous mombo jeehambo!

 

I think some self-evaluation ought to be practiced over this weekend's celebration of Christ's birth, from all of us.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

What is the matter with someone who questions others about the use of the word, "god", stating how he feels about it, and then getting feedback from others?

I've stated my grievance with it above.

 

I think it's personally narcissistic, degrading to the Christianity as a whole, and makes the mistake, as Rowan points out, of assuming that "god" is a Christian word when indeed it's been around for a longer time than Martin Luther.

it is my preference to exercise that ounce of prevention ConfusedinOC speaks about. That's not to say that I expect others to follow suit,

Though, that's exactly what it says.

 

You're saying "exercise an ounce of prevention", meaning "Don't set me off by using MY word"--It's disgusting, and I wish you'd stop.

So does that make me the extreme fundamentalist that some, ( I think ), believe I am?

Your behavior is characteristic of a fundamentalist. I don't think you should be ashamed of what you are, and if you do find yourself ashamed, you should rethink whether that's what you want to be.

 

and shout in my face, and in front of a crowd non the less, how wrong I am and how ignorant I am, then have the balls to say that, I'M the one preaching holier than thou, self-righteous mombo jeehambo!

An appeal to pity--When I think you're wrong, I'll explain why.

 

It's what Jesus did, and people didn't like him for it either.

[Moose]

Thanks for proving my point Dyer......

[dyermaker]

You have no point really, you just get tired of being called on your BS, and you like to pretend the problem is the calling thereof, instead of the actual BS.

 

You solicited opinions, and you got them. I assume you expected to be praised for how holy you are, and receive sincere promises not to use your word in secular contexts (an ounce of prevention, you call it)--I'm not sorry that such a belief was attacked, I think it will discourage you from being so vain about your faith in the future.

 

I recognize it may be hard for you to believe that others might be offended by you, as if being religiously offended is a privelege only you have been endowed with.

[Moose]

You have no point really, you just get tired of being called on your BS, and you like to pretend the problem is the calling thereof, instead of the actual BS.

 

Oh please, , don't flatter yourself.....I consider most of what you say to be BS.....so I guess you could say we have a mutual feeling.

 

I assume you expected to be praised for how holy you are, and receive sincere promises not to use your word in secular contexts (an ounce of prevention, you call it)--I'm not sorry that such a belief was attacked, I think it will discourage you from being so vain about your faith in the future

 

This is exactley what I meant......who's calling the kettle black? I asked for opinions on it, I got them, I was in no way shape or form looking for praise, you reading too much into it, ( No surprise there!. )

 

I recognize it may be hard for you to believe that others might be offended by you,

 

No it's not, not at all, you're not so bright after all are you?

 

as if being religiously offended is a privelege only you have been endowed with.

 

Obviously it isn't........grow up.......stop reading into this what you want, and take it for the opinions they are.

[RowanRavyn]

Come on guys. Now you are just baiting each other.

 

If I could I would swat Mooses bum and tell him to play nice, and I would put Dyer in a time out and tell him the same thing.

 

This was a useful thread I think. Its got everyone thinking.

 

It is impossible to expect people to blindly respect something they do no comprehend, care about, or see the same way. Now when someone is in your HOME, you can say, "I'm sorry we don't say that in this house." You are within your rights entirely. At work you can ask a coworker to tone down their language because its offensive. On a public board you really can't expect that unless it breaks TOS.

 

It offends me far worse to hear someone using the "F" word as an adjective over and over again. It offends me far worse to hear someone use a degrogotroy sexual or racial term.

 

There are a lot of wonderful Christians in the world, Christians of all different bents and personal belief systems.

 

Proverbs 27:17 (niv) "As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another."

[Mr Spock]

My father is Anglican. When he hits his thumb with a hammer he utters

 

"Jesus Christ on a F*cking Crutch!!!!!"

 

I doubt he'll burn in hell for that.

[RowanRavyn]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

My father is Anglican. When he hits his thumb with a hammer he utters

 

"Jesus Christ on a F*cking Crutch!!!!!"

 

I doubt he'll burn in hell for that.

 

 

LMAO

 

I have never heard that one before.

 

My sister (who is 27 years older than me) used to do things and then ask me if she was going to go to hell for it. I never understood that. We had the same father, and my daddy was an understanding man, and I always figured that God was that way too.

 

My FIL who is not the least bit religious says "God D@mmit" when he bumps his knee or drops something. One day I asked him why he says it if he doesn't believe in God. He said, "well, just incase the old guy is listening, I am making a simple request that he show (whatever has hurt him/pissed him off) a little hell."

[Moose]

If I could I would swat Mooses bum and tell him to play nice,

 

That could be fun!

 

and I would put Dyer in a time out and tell him the same thing.

 

And the only reason you'd spank me and not Dyer is because you favor Dyer!!! WAAAAAA!!!!

 

But seriously, you chose to write it out that way out of respect for each others views on discipline, probably stemming from another thread. And this is the type of respect I'm speaking of. You are aware of our preferences by what we wrote, so you go out of the way so as not to infringe on our views. Provo!

 

This thread was started because a couple of us responded to what we thought was a plea for God's help. The person who we thought was pleaing wasn't actually approaching God, but instead was using His name as a figure of speech. I wanted to know what others thought about using God's name as a figure of speech, and why people choose to ignore the fact that it's offense to some Christians.

 

While it's so easy for Rowan to recognize our views, and word her post in such a way as to not step on either mine or Dyer's toes, why is it so hard to recognize that using God's name in a way that's offensive to others not a given to most people?

 

Afterall, you never know when a Christian is in your presence. Why not show respect for everyone by avoiding offensive remarks?

 

If this thread was dubbed, "Use of the, "F" word..........", everyone, Christian or no would agree it's a very offensive word no matter how it's used.......compare that to the same way I feel when people use God's name as a figure of speech.

[Mr Spock]

Fine. But I'd just wish the people who keep spouting crap about religion when trying to counsel someone would be aware that if the fact he's got a wife hasn't made a person stop f*cking him the fear of God sure isn't.

[Mr Spock]

Originally posted by Moose

why people choose to ignore the fact that it's offense to some Christians.

 

While it's so easy for Rowan to recognize our views, and word her post in such a way as to not step on either mine or Dyer's toes, why is it so hard to recognize that using God's name in a way that's offensive to others not a given to most people?

 

Afterall, you never know when a Christian is in your presence. Why not show respect for everyone by avoiding offensive remarks?

 

 

I'd like to point out to you big guy that saying "Goddamnit" when you stub your toe or drop your wallet into a man hole generally is only found offensive by Ned Flanders, which is why most people don't even think twice about uttering it. Not that the general population is trying to offend church going bible thumping christians. We're not urinating into the holy water.

[RowanRavyn]

Originally posted by Moose

 

While it's so easy for Rowan to recognize our views, and word her post in such a way as to not step on either mine or Dyer's toes, why is it so hard to recognize that using God's name in a way that's offensive to others not a given to most people?

 

Afterall, you never know when a Christian is in your presence. Why not show respect for everyone by avoiding offensive remarks?

 

 

 

 

This is where things get dicey. Why should Christian's deserve special treatment and respect for their God from people who don't share the same beliefs? What about pagans? What about Buddhists or any of the many many other religions? What IF we all just treated each other with respect without regard to religion?

 

Yes, it was easy for me to pick the right thing to say in regards to discipline, because I am AWARE of how you both feel, and because given a choice I really wouldn't want to offend either of you. I have learned a lot from each of you as individuals and I have a PERSONAL respect for each of you.

 

Again, this is a very useful thread.

 

 

And if I were the mom, I would hug you both, kiss your tears and get whomever was being pouty to giggle, make you hug and then agree to disagree.

 

;-) No favorites here lovey's.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Fine. But I'd just wish the people who keep spouting crap about religion when trying to counsel someone would be aware that if the fact he's got a wife hasn't made a person stop f*cking him the fear of God sure isn't.

 

And boy have I noticed and learned that Spock. You may or may not of noticed, but I have been improving in that area.........

[Moose]

What IF we all just treated each other with respect without regard to religion?

 

Amen to that.

[ConfusedInOC]

Respect for all religions is something I learned as a child. I don't chastise other religions. I try and understand and respect them.

 

The problem is not everyone sees things our way. It's "see it as we do or you're an infidel!"

 

Live and let live...

[RowanRavyn]

Amen.

[rtobiejr]

People who are truly close to God understand, that while they may share their religious beliefs with others, in the final analysis, what a person chooses to do with regard to religion and worship is between him and God. And, one must assume that that is the way God intends it, for He has wisely bestowed everyone with free will and the ability to choose their path.

[rtobiejr]

Yet interestingly enough, people with no religious affiliation often do what they accuse religious people of doing when it comes to various matters. Secular people often have a "see it as i do or you're a fanatic" attitude-- and I believe that to be just as destructive as the "see it as i do or you're a heretic" way of seeing things.

 

Neither way allows for enlightenment, in my humble opinion.