I need to know

[Confusion_Reigns]

Can an abusive person really change their abusive ways? How? Does it really last? How do I know it’s going to really last? Can an abusive person change their abusive ways without individual concealing? How? Does it last? How can I know it’s real…

 

PUSH is slowly coming to SHOVE…and I need to **** or get off the pot. It is time. Like the crazy person I am still on the fence. I want to believe and yet I don’t want to believe, either.

 

ARGH!!!

 

I hate this stuff…really I do..

 

Does anyone have any stories to share regarding this type of situation? Anyone know a former abuser that has gotten healthy and is no longer an abuser? Idk if that is even truly possible…like once an alcoholic always analcoholic…Sheesh, I just feel soooo so FUBAR about this whole thing.

[TaraMaiden]

Stop clinging to Hope.

It's pointless, and leads to a big fat zero.

 

No, he will not change, ever.

If you're still asking this after having been on the horns of this dilemma for such a long time... ask yourself:

 

Do I want to be here in a year's time, still asking the same desperate question?

 

You once said this:

 

My college degree is in Behavioral Sciences…I learned a lot from these courses…I’ve also been on the quest for happiness (studying some Buddha type of teachings), which has evolved into the quest for peace (because I’ve found my happiness within me), and I’m just really working towards being abetter person, a better me…

Oh, really?

 

How much honestly, have you learnt about consciously being a better person and valuing yourself as you truly should be?

 

I want him to do the work, too, for himself. I’veasked him, we’ve talked, and it’s always “I can’t” but I think it’s that he won’t.

 

Boom.

 

He won't do the work, believing he can't, so he's not going to even try..... therefore....

 

....Sorry, what was the question, again?

[Confusion_Reigns]

....Sorry, what was the question, again?

 

You know darn well what my question is. You tell me there is NO HOPE ever? right?

 

Really...no one has EVER changed for the better? Do you really believe that?

 

I'm asking HOW as well...how do they get better? How do I know that he's better?

 

Am I truly a fool for hoping?

 

 

Do I want to be here in a year's time, still asking the same desperate

question?

 

honestly, no...

 

How much honestly, have you learnt about consciously being a better person and valuing yourself as you truly should be?

 

Its taken me a long time to get here and it'll take me a long time to get to another *better* spot...its can't happen over night...I AM TRYING and doing and learning....slowly...I do mostly everything slowly its my nature...

 

But I wanted to hear some thoughts on what I wrote just because it helps me...

 

...and it's also my nature to be hopeful...

[TaraMaiden]

No, I didn't say there's never any hope ever.

I said that holding onto Hope, when the situation clearly shows there is none to be had, is fruitless.

 

Look, there can only be 'hope' if some things are happening:

 

The culprit knows they have problems.

The culprit sees these problems as inhibitive and debilitating.

The culprit decides they need to address the problems.

The culprit WANTS to change - for their own good, above all.

The culprit begins to research solutions to the problems.

The culprit examines and explores different options to resolve problems.

The culprit seeks counselling, therapy and a way forward.

The culprit engages with those near and dear to them to include them.

The culprit keeps those close to them, updated and is honest and open.

 

Are any of the above actually happening?

 

If the answer's no, seriously, how can you even be so desperately holding on, when you really need to shift your focus from seeking happiness via him, and instead focusing on generating it within you?

[Zahara]

Does anyone have any stories to share regarding this type of situation? Anyone know a former abuser that has gotten healthy and is no longer an abuser? Idk if that is even truly possible…like once an alcoholic always analcoholic…Sheesh, I just feel soooo so FUBAR about this whole thing.

 

I have a friend that was an alcoholic. She goes to AA 3-4 times a week because she wants to stay sober. And she has been doing this for 7 years. If she doesn't, she knows she will start to go wayward. So, an alcoholic could possibly change but it takes hard work and consistent effort to stay in a good place and keep it that way.

 

Any form of self-reflection from the abuser in terms of identifying the problem and wanting change and seeking ways to reform? If no, then best you get off the pot.

[Confusion_Reigns]

The culprit knows they have problems.

The culprit sees these problems as inhibitive and debilitating.

The culprit decides they need to address the problems.

The culprit WANTS to change - for their own good, above all.

The culprit begins to research solutions to the problems.

The culprit examines and explores different options to resolve problems.

The culprit seeks counselling, therapy and a way forward.

The culprit engages with those near and dear to them to include them.

The culprit keeps those close to them, updated and is honest and open.

 

I cannot answer yes to all of these but it's yes for 1,2, & 3 for him. He knows he has a problem, he knows the problem is bad, and he knows he needs to address the problem....I believe he wants to change...I believe he's very-very afraid of going there...to the inner place where all the hurt lives...the rest of it, no....maaaayyyyybbbbeeee he'll consider going to counseling...he agreed to MC but we can't afford it and our health ins doesn't cover it...but they do for IC...

 

Hope is a killer. I *know* I can't keep using the kids as an excuse to stay here with him...and I'm having such a hard time with the *actions* of moving forward or moving on...

 

Thank you tho, for talking to me...

[Zahara]

So the kids are witness to this abuse? How old are they?

[TaraMaiden]

I hate this kind of thing.

One, two and three simply aren't enough.

And fear is just another word - in this case - for "I can't be asked".

 

He sees the damage his problem causes, but he doesn't think enough of you, or consider your needs to be sufficiently important - to implement a change in himself that will make him a better person.

 

He's settled for the way he is, because the counter-effort is too much for him to want to deal with.

And you're not worth his time.

 

He won't do it for you, so he definitely won't ever do it for himself.

 

As for the children, they should NEVER be the excuse to stay.

 

They should be your primary reason to go.

 

we teach our kids, through our actions, that what we put up with is acceptable, and okay.

 

If you really want your children to learn this kind of relationship - to eventually copy it,emulate it and use it as a yardstick - then by all means continue to expose them to the poison they're being fed.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Something that's been told to me by friends...

 

1) from a very good highly education counselor type of woman: we were talking and I repeated what he always says to me "I'd do ANYTHING for you! I do EVERYTHING for you" and you know...he does a lot...but she stopped me dead in my tracks and said "No, he won't" and I had to really think on that...no he won't do ANYTHING for me cuz if he would he would have gone to MC and/or IC years and years ago.

 

2) If I...or when I...really and truly put my foot down is when he's going to do what he needs to do. This is crazy....but probably true...I think (and could be wrong) that I am wanting to get to that spot of truly accepting that this marriage has NO HOPE and to really and truly LET GO of the hope, the desire, the stupid idea of what I want marriage to be like...and THEN he's going to step up...and I wont care anymore...and I won't cave when he comes calling...sheesh, look at me...sounding like a nut job...

 

3) Learn his love language and I can get him to want to change for me.

 

I don't even know what to really think about these ideas...

[Confusion_Reigns]

...and then...like a seemingly very deranged individual....I wonder if I expect too much....NOW, not from years ago because whats done is done...can't ever go back and redo...but I know that affects me and my thoughts, ideas, etc...so, what if I'm just bottled all this *STUFF* from years ago and am letting it make me crazy now? maybe i'm trying to use that as justification to leave now...does that make sense?

[TaraMaiden]

2 is your worst fear - one you are repeatedly stepping back from, because the brink of the abyss of divorce SEEMS to be too horrific to contemplate.

 

But you know what?

Thousands of us have done it, and lived, survived and triumphed to tell the tale.

I for one only truly really began to consider myself whole, complete and truly the wonderful creature I was - Once I had shed the shackles of what actually held me back from completing my journey to Self.

Him.

 

Maybe the reason your journey to wellness is taking so long, is that you're permitting other factors to stem your flow.

 

3 - why should you learn 'the Love language' when he's not even willing to meet you half way with a dictionary?

[Confusion_Reigns]

truth be told, yes the abyss is scary...very scary...I don't want to get close to anyone ever again, not like this...and I know this is going to sound so awful but...when we separated last time there were guys wanting to spend time with me...I politely and firmly declined...but some where very persistent...and for some reason that scares me too....like having him in my life somehow protects me from them...idk if i'm even making any sorta sense here...

[TaraMaiden]

...and then...like a seemingly very deranged individual....I wonder if I expect too much....NOW, not from years ago because whats done is done...can't ever go back and redo...but I know that affects me and my thoughts, ideas, etc...so, what if I'm just bottled all this *STUFF* from years ago and am letting it make me crazy now? maybe i'm trying to use that as justification to leave now...does that make sense?

 

Yup.

 

I mean, how much can a bird waiting to fly, really take?

[TaraMaiden]

truth be told, yes the abyss is scary...very scary...I don't want to get close to anyone ever again, not like this...and I know this is going to sound so awful but...when we separated last time there were guys wanting to spend time with me...I politely and firmly declined...but some where very persistent...and for some reason that scares me too....like having him in my life somehow protects me from them...idk if i'm even making any sorta sense here...

 

It's a mistake to think of a divorce as an opening for other future partners.

 

If I may say so, this screams of "I'm scared of being alone!" which makes you co-dependent.

 

This is what you actually need therapy for. This kind of issue.

You manifest a fear of being alone, so you'd rather stay with what destroys you, for the company, than be brave and live life for yourself, albeit a solitary one.

 

You equate 'alone' with 'lonely' which really should never be the case.... and need not be.

[Confusion_Reigns]

um, no...actually I rather enjoy being alone. I was really starting to enjoy my time when we were separated (for abut 9-10 mos about 8 yrs ago)...what I don't want is random men trying to associate themselves with me. I am a loner type by nature.

 

But yes, I'm starting to understand the real nature of codependency...that I am one....and that's something else i'm trying to understand and deal with. I read most of the book 'codependent no more' and yup. I think my husband is too....and you know he's not an evil man, that's the thing mostly he's a great guy...mostly....and the rest sucks.

[lindsay1990]

I think so.

 

When I used to fight with my ex I would bombard him with text messages fighting, as I typed a lot faster than him I basically just launched all my greivances on the guy. Several times (4-5 over a ten month relationship) these outbursts resulted in me breaking up wi th him on either the spot. A couple of hours later I would always get in touch to reconcile and sincerely never thought it to be reeeal break up more lile a really bad fight.

 

Granted, the guy had a way of pushing my buttons (half-teuthing, gaslighting, stonewalling) and I would always explode when I felt something had happened and I seemed to never be entitled to an apology or an explanation, only blameshifting or minimization.

 

In any case, my ex was passive aggressive and I was more reactive so in a way I feel I made the situations worse (assuming both people blocking out isn't worse).

 

I learned the hard way, through the break down of my rs, that these behaviours were just as potentially abusive. No matter if they reactions to his initial behaviour I was responsible solely myself for my own way of responding.

 

I chalk a lot of it up to immaturity and acting out, pressing for reassurance. But I can understand how someone could feel harassed by such behaviours and I cam results in abusive patterns.

 

I feel I am changing or even say changed. But ONLY because:

 

1. Months have passed, that I have spent on introspection. Away from ex, away from relationship.

 

2. Most importantly, I think it's my personality. I don't have much difficulty accepting my mistakes and feel (and don't remember) eeeeevvveeer having said to my ex that he made me do anything or was responsible for my acting out. I have always been very accountable and I think that is what has allowed me to make progreas, in controlling how I respond and not getting\letting myself be put on the defensive.

 

My ex? Never could accept his resp. Freaked out in car, could have killed us? I shouldn't have implied he was blowing me off. Smashed phone against the wall in a rage? I brought out the worst in him. Aired out dirty laundry to his friends and family when we wouls fight and progressively caused me to fall in disfavor, despite me asking him not to do that? Well, if I hadn't bean mean to him orr dumped him.midfight he wouldn't have done it. Screams at me and calls me irrational despite my insistence that if I'm wrong doesn't make me crazy, and I don't appreciate being called irrational because I feel he is putting me on a lesser mental playing field? Well, then he wasn't saying *I* was irrational but that I was *acting* irrational.

 

So, I think the most important thing for change in someone who has abusive tendencies or who reacts in abusive or unfair ways (which we can all do) is the ability to recognize that they always have a choice (as in "no one makes them do anything") and that those choices can always stand to be improved. But, someone who thinks that what they do isn't wrong, or defends it by saying that what you did was much worse? That's a very, very dangerous trait to have and it will breed abuse.

[turnera]

Abuse victims PICK abusive partners because they think subconsciously that they are going to change the abuser. And then complain because he won't change.

[Confusion_Reigns]

Abuse victims PICK abusive partners because they think subconsciously that they are going to change the abuser. And then complain because he won't change.

 

Yea, I wish I was smarter when I was younger. I wish I understood then what I understand now. But this is the way it is now, for now. Things will change, soon.

 

I'm all about the silver linings...and I have two major silver linings in my life, who do and will continue to contribute positivity to this world...my children, our children.

[turnera]

Have you read Why Does He Do That? yet?

[Confusion_Reigns]

No I haven't. Maybe I'll pick it up. Honestly, I'm getting to a point of why do I put up with that, lol.

 

I wanted to add to my other post but wasn't quick enough...I wasn't abused as a child...well, as a very young child but not as an older child...my Dad was a very gentle man who never yelled at me or spanked me...I think because it was a single parent home and he worked, a lot, that I pretty much raised myself. And yes, kids get themselves into not so great situations. Every one a turning point in my evolution.

[turnera]

Well, if you want to put abuse behind you and just focus on making better choices in the future, I highly recommend Getting The Love You Want. It teaches how our childhood experiences shape who we look for and why we look for them, and how to circumvent unhealthy choices. Really good stuff.

[2sunny]

He abuses - but won't change and grow...

 

You think that's change enough to stay.

 

I wish you luck.

[Confusion_Reigns]

He abuses - but won't change and grow...

 

You think that's change enough to stay.

 

I wish you luck.

 

No, I never said I think that this is change enough to stay. I wanted to know if an abuse can change without professional help and how can I really and truly know he has changed...without always waiting for that other shoe to drop.

[2sunny]

No, I never said I think that this is change enough to stay. I wanted to know if an abuse can change without professional help and how can I really and truly know he has changed...without always waiting for that other shoe to drop.

 

Not usually. Especially NO since he hasn't gotten help to change.

 

Rehabilitating an abuser takes massive amounts of help. Even then, the success rate isn't high.

[Confusion_Reigns]

That's so sad.

 

I really do wish the best for him. I worry about his well-being. I hope he can get himself in a better place sometime so he can be happy inside. It must really suck to feel that horrible inside all the time.

 

but I cannot help him. I cannot force him to help himself. All I can do is...do the best I can with what I have...and keep moving forward in a healthy way (sounds good, huh? lets see if I can keep my mind from getting crazy with everything!).