The Bible is the BEST SELLER of all times. READ IT......

[heartburn]

Have anyone actually set down and read the book of Genesis. What did you think? It's like a 'R' rated movie. The way it tells about Noah and his daughters, Jacob and his two sister wives Leah and Rebekkeh. How amazing!

[HokeyReligions]

I've read the entire Bible (KJV) several times. I've also read the updated version (Living Bible) once. It's full of the same types of stories as novels like Lord of the Rings, or The Odessey or The Iliad, etc. But those were written by one author and remain consistent. The Bible is so broken and contains different writing styles and old vocabularies and re-writes by different authors that it makes it cumbersome to sit down and read through. But there is magic and mystery and murder and sex and war and lust and deceit and celebration and torture and politics and travel and exploration and discovery and compassion and psycopathy and well, all the things that our best selling books and movies contain! Just different characters.

[dyermaker]

Hokey hits on an important point--It really should be treated as a volume of books, with different authors, and different writing styles.

 

I think people get into trouble when they start looking at say, Genesis, and treating it as a book of history, when it was never intended to be so. Or, even worse, when they start looking at Leviticus, and think it's a moral handbook.

 

If you don't understand the context of what you're reading, it's best not to read it at all--it's only dangerous when you combine divine mandates with ignorance.

[shadis]

Originally posted by heartburn

Have anyone actually set down and read the book of Genesis. What did you think? It's like a 'R' rated movie. The way it tells about Noah and his daughters, Jacob and his two sister wives Leah and Rebekkeh. How amazing!

 

The bible is rather uninteresting to me. Thank you for the evangelism, though.

[LucreziaBorgia]

The Bible is also the most stolen book in the US. I have always found that odd.

 

I find most religious/mythological texts interesting. Reading them gives a pretty fascinating insight into the culture that created them.

[kit4kat]

The Bible is also the most stolen book in the US. I have always found that odd.

 

HAHA no stinking way! In June I left my car at my church for a few hours. I got a phone call while I was at a baseball game saying that someone broke into my car! They left my laundry detergent and my bible!! I wish they WOULD have stolen it, maybe they'd realize that what they did was wrong.

 

The Bible is a compilation of stories, but it shouldn't be treated as a volume of books. Dyer, lots of people do look at it as a moral handbook and a book of history, because thats what a lot of people believe to be true-- including myself. There is no harm in reading the Bible. Its been said that people who live their lives according to the Bible's teaching live more full and happier lives. Now, I don't know who said that, I heard it once from a very important person. It makes sense though.

[HokeyReligions]

I read that its the most stolen book too -- mainly because people steal it from hotel/motel rooms!

 

I think it is a fascinating (if often dull and difficult) book to read and I also think it is a must-read book---but probably for different reasons than heartburn meant.

 

I think it is a good baseline for people with moral dilemmas and are looking for help making a decision in some cases, but as a rule-book to follow I find it vague and contradictory and open for waaaaaay too many interpretations!

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by dyermaker

Hokey hits on an important point--It really should be treated as a volume of books, with different authors, and different writing styles.

 

I think people get into trouble when they start looking at say, Genesis, and treating it as a book of history, when it was never intended to be so. Or, even worse, when they start looking at Leviticus, and think it's a moral handbook.

 

If you don't understand the context of what you're reading, it's best not to read it at all--it's only dangerous when you combine divine mandates with ignorance.

 

Pretty much right on.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by kit4kat

The Bible is a compilation of stories, but it shouldn't be treated as a volume of books.

You do yourself a disservice if you pretend that it's something it's not--ignorance isn't at all empowering.

Dyer, lots of people do look at it as a moral handbook and a book of history, because thats what a lot of people believe to be true-- including myself.

You're taking me out of context. I specifically mentioned books of the Bible.

 

Genesis is not a book of natural history. That's not why it was written, and anyone who believes that it is a book of natural history is choosing ignorance over scholarship.

 

Leviticus is not a moral handbook, it was a specific collection of laws for a priestly caste that no longer exists. It is important simply to understand the life of the Levite, and not to impose those dictates on a modern-day gentile.

There is no harm in reading the Bible.

I disagree--reading the Bible without understanding it causes a lot of harm.

 

It's led a majority of Americans to believe that evolution is an unproven hypothesis.

It's cited as an authority on why homosexuals should be denied civil rights.

 

Its been said that people who live their lives according to the Bible's teaching live more full and happier lives.

I agree with this. But you have to treat poetry as poetry, fiction as fiction, metaphor as metaphor--and somehow extract a theological truth beyond the painfully obvious (and often dangerous) literal interpretation.

[RowanRavyn]

Originally posted by LucreziaBorgia

The Bible is also the most stolen book in the US. I have always found that odd.

 

I find most religious/mythological texts interesting. Reading them gives a pretty fascinating insight into the culture that created them.

 

 

Having worked in a Christian Bookstore as well as working in an international bookstore chain, I can tell you for SURE that the bible is a VERY often stolen book. It was so bad in the Christian Bookstore that we had to put examples of our bibles BEHIND the counter (and the stock in the backroom), and show then to customers one on one. They thought it was just quaint personal service. Actually it was to reduce our shrink.

 

In the bookstore chain, it wasn't usual for us to lose at least a bible a day. Thats 365 bibles a YEAR in our store alone. The end of the year total last was just over 500 stolen.

 

Amazing huh?

 

Also Gideons those nice people who leave bibles in hotel rooms, do a lot of replacements. Though they mostly don't care. It is after all spreading Gods word.

[tiki]

I've attempted to read it. And I always get Stuck in Genesis. You almost need a daily devotional where you read a little at a time. And if they can translate some of it for you, swell.

 

Has anyone read/analyzed Song of Solomon? I did a 7 week class on that and it's my favorite book in the BIBLE. It taught me so much about love, sex, dating, relationships and marriage. I love it.

[ThumbingMyWay]

I started to read the Bible a few months ago. I got thru Job...but I must say as interested as I am...the Old Testament just aint doin it for me. So since I am more interested in Jesus....I decided to read the the NLV New Testament. Just started amd I am thru the first few chapters of Matthew. Very interesting and very inspiring....going to try and read a little everyday.

 

 

BUT, my wife and I do read a marriage devotional Bible to gether. NO we are not reading the whole thing....only the daily verse and the lesson. THIS has been a huge help in our marriage. At times it seems that the very issues we are dealing with during our recovery....are the same in the daily lesson....it has been a great tool for us...a great help. I recommend a daily devotional to anyone who is interested and is looking for some direction in there life.......but are not yet totally commited to reading the entire book. Call it half ass...what ever...but it has realy helped me.

 

My next religous book will be "A Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren. I have heard great things about this book. But with religion, particularly the christian faith....it just isnt for everyone I guess.

[Clancy]

Hey, Dyer. I don't want to argue with you., Really, you're way more knowledgeable about such matters than I am and I don't like to lose. .But what do you say to people who believe the BIble is the exact written word of God?? And IS meant to be taken literally.

[blind_otter]

I read the bible cover to cover about 3 times when I was in middle school and high school. I did a comparative mythology class in high school where we compared Greek and Roman mythology to biblical mythology. It was pretty dern interesting. I love the mythologies of primitive peoples in general.

 

But people who think the earth is only 8,000 years old really irritate me. My brother-in-law's family said that satan put dinosaur bones in the ground to mislead people into believing in evolution.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Clancy

Hey, Dyer. I don't want to argue with you., Really, you're way more knowledgeable about such matters than I am and I don't like to lose. .But what do you say to people who believe the BIble is the exact written word of God?? And IS meant to be taken literally.

 

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I do want to comment on it. I kinda know what Dyer will say anyway. He'll pretty much beat around the bush in explaining himself, so I'll put it to you the way I interprete him.

 

My thought on Dyer's perspective is that people who read the Bible and take it literally without knowing or studying the original text in greek or hebrew are waisting their time. Not only is it a waste, noone in that catagory should be allowed to quote it either.

 

I do take some of Scripture quite literally when and where I feel it should. Some Scripture I clearly need to study more to get the full content. It's my opinion that everyone has the right to use their heart and minds to interprete the Scriptures, and not take so much stock in what Science and History try to tell us. Otherwise, why would we need to live by faith if we claim to have scientific and historical proof of everything in the Bible?

 

That's just my take, and I'm sure Dyer will come on here and explain himself when he gets home.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by blind_otter

I read the bible cover to cover about 3 times when I was in middle school and high school. I did a comparative mythology class in high school where we compared Greek and Roman mythology to biblical mythology. It was pretty dern interesting. I love the mythologies of primitive peoples in general.

 

But people who think the earth is only 8,000 years old really irritate me. My brother-in-law's family said that satan put dinosaur bones in the ground to mislead people into believing in evolution.

 

!! I remember a zillion years ago taking a similar class comparing Geek mythology and the Bible! I'd forgotten about it until I saw your post. It was very interesting as I recall and I think it was in a sociology class.

 

 

I've run into some religious sects that believe similarly; basically anything they don't understand and isn't in the Bible is a ruse put in place by satan or another false prophet to confuse Christians. Talk about narrow-minded! LOL

[RowanRavyn]

If you want to read something that makes Christ very real, very human....read anything by Max Lucado. I love his writing.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I do want to comment on it. I kinda know what Dyer will say anyway. He'll pretty much beat around the bush in explaining himself, so I'll put it to you the way I interprete him.

The last thing I need is you to speak for me.

Originally posted by Clancy

But what do you say to people who believe the BIble is the exact written word of God??

Moose is trying to attack me by claiming that I'm trying to stop people from quoting the Bible. What I'm really trying to do is encourage people to understand the Bible. Hardcore fundamentalists wish to keep the errors in the Bible (as a literal text) a secret, because they want to think they're right no matter what.

 

The trouble is, some things in the Bible aren't true. They didn't happen the way the Biblical Authors wrote them. People like me, Christians who understand the context of the Bible, recognize errors, and can still extract what's called a theological truth out of them.

 

For example, there's no way the Earth was created 8,000 years ago, and all the animals were created at the exact same time. For one, there are things that are older than 8,000 years, and there's no way they could be younger. Additionally, 99% of all the species that have ever existed are extinct, and for good reason. The environment changes so often that it often favors different traits--In knowing this, we realize that the only way speciation could have occured the way it has so far is through some sort of natural selection.

 

Coupled with the fact that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are two different contradictory stories written by two different groups of people, it's a pretty simple conclusion to realize that God didn't create the Earth exactly as the English translation of Genesis describes it. However, that doesn't mean that God isn't our creator, that we're not supposed to be stewards of the Earth, and that he doesn't have the ultimate power over creation. All of those are theological truths. You know how sometimes you read a story, and it's about something completely different? That's how we treat the Bible.

 

It's not that we don't love the Bible--It's that we make an effort to understand it. For example, take the book of Leviticus, it's the third one. To someone who doesn't know much about the Bible, they'd say "Oh, It's a book that gives instruction, it must be a moral handbook straight from God"--The thing is, it was never intended as a moral handbook (just as Genesis was never intended to be taken literally--the Ancient Tribes of Jews used the stories to illustrate God's power), it was intended as a guide to maintaining ritual cleanliness. We're not concerned with ritual cleanliness anymore--most likely because we understand how germs work. As such, when we read Leviticus, we shouldn't say "This is how God wants us to behave", we should read it as a book that gives us insight into how an ancient priestly caste behaved, and try to draw connections between the spiritual lives of their culture and ours.

 

And IS meant to be taken literally.

The trouble with this is that it's always coupled with hypocrisy.

 

No Christian takes 100% of the Bible literally--for example, even the most fundamentalist Christian won't stone their children for misbehaving--what they do is they split up the Bible between what they decide they have to follow literally and what they do not.

 

The trouble with that is that they're the ultimate judges of what's literal and what's not.

 

They'll look at one verse in Leviticus about pork, realize that they like to eat pork, and say "Jesus freed us from Levitical law, we can eat all the pork we like."

 

They'll look at another verse in Leviticus about homosexuality, realize that they're not gay, and say "God condemns homosexuality, looksee, it's here, you have to accept what God says".

 

The end result is a race to condemn others, instead of the pursuit of self-improvement.

 

In the end, what you get from selectively interpreting the scriptures literally, as well as ignoring the context of the books of the Bible, is hypocrisy about what's literal and what's not, coupled with ignorance, in ignoring the most important part of Biblical understanding--context.

 

Moose says we shouldn't put so much weight on what Science and History tells us. However, he fails to recognize that Science and History are also disciplines of God. Science wasn't man-made, it's just another way of examining the natural world that God gave us, it simply has a more rigorous examination proccess than literature--which is what the Bible is. History is merely a record of the events that have happened, events that cannot be seperated from God. When science and history start to defeat things in the Bible, we don't need to feel as though God is threatened--because God is still the steward of History and Science. What we need to start doing when science and history defeat Biblical passages is start to look at new ways to understand the value of the Bible as literature.

[Moose]

Moose says we shouldn't put so much weight on what Science and History tells us. However, he fails to recognize that Science and History are also disciplines of God.

 

Who's speaking for who now? I do recognize that Science and History are disciplines of God, however, I also recognize that our abilities as humans to know and understand are very limited compared to that of God. So no matter what Science and History claim to be truth, I take very lightly because there is no possible way you or anyone else for that matter can have a COMPLETE understanding of Scripture.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Moose

Who's speaking for who now?

I'm not speaking for you, I was quoting you: "not take so much stock in what Science and History try to tell us"

 

Science and History are not less Godly simply because they weren't arbitrarily put into a book by a bunch of Catholic monks.

I do recognize that Science and History are disciplines of God, however, I also recognize that our abilities as humans to know and understand are very limited compared to that of God.

Science : Human examinations of the natural (God-created) world, using a rigorous and transparent academic proccess.

History : Human perspectives on (God-inspired) events over time, using a variety of interpretations.

 

The Bible : Human authored literature, inspired by God, written by Humans, and not transcendent of metaphor.

 

All literature is inspired by God. This post was inspired by God. Everything that was ever written was inspired by God. That doesn't mean you have to take everything that was ever written literally. Can you imagine how worthless Animal Farm would be if you thought it was just about animals?

[Clancy]

Thanks for the background info Dyer and you too Moose. But Dyer, does it actually say somewhere in the Bible that parents should stone their children if they misbehave? If so, where? I'm not being picky, just sensationalist.

 

 

Also, Dyer and or Moose, isn't it possible to take the Bible literally in some cases such as re: the homosexuality issue, and then dismiss those areas that Christ has clarified or changed? I mean didn't Christ basically soften up a lot of the nasty areas of the Old Ttestament?

 

Another question, could not one read the New Testament literally as "the Bible" including the New Testament references to the Old Testament.?

 

Hope you can take the time to answer these.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by Clancy

Thanks for the background info Dyer and you too Moose. But Dyer, does it actually say somewhere in the Bible that parents should stone their children if they misbehave? If so, where? I'm not being picky, just sensationalist.

Actually, it's the father who should do the stoning. Women are nothing but servile property prone to sexual deviance, as they are simply trash created from our extra rib.

 

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and [that], when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son [is] stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; [he is] a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

 

Deuteronomy 21: 18-21

Also, Dyer and or Moose, isn't it possible to take the Bible literally in some cases such as re: the homosexuality issue, and then dismiss those areas that Christ has clarified or changed?

That's the justification fundamentalists use.

 

When it comes to rules that don't apply to them, like homosexuality, they're fine with outdated laws on ritual cleanliness remaining. But because they like to eat pork, they say "Oh, Jesus says we don't have to follow those rules!"

 

I mean didn't Christ basically soften up a lot of the nasty areas of the Old Ttestament?

Where did he say we can wear mixed fabrics again? When did he give us permission to eat pork?

Another question, could not one read the New Testament literally as "the Bible" including the New Testament references to the Old Testament.?

The New Testament is also a piece of literature, and needs to be taken as such.

 

You have to understand that Gospel writing wasn't something that was started immediately after Christ's departure. Most early Christians were certain that when Jesus said he was coming back, he meant in their lifetime, so the need to write things down wasn't there. Their ministry was mainly word of mouth. As they told people about Jesus, people told THEM stories about Jesus, and the stories spread like a giant holy rumor mill.

 

Because most of the Gospel isn't a direct eyewitness account, you can't treat it like you'd treat a stenographer's account. It's doubtful that all or even most of the stories about Christ's ministry happened exactly as was described--For example, since none of the Gospel writers were present at the Birth of Christ, you can be almost certain that the infancy narratives present in two of the Gospels in the Canon are simply nice stories to tell.

 

If you're fascinated by the life of Jesus Christ, you should really look into the plethora of Gospels that weren't put into the Bible.

 

I recognize it would be easier if we just took things literally. I'm sorry it's not. I think we'll get through it.

[Clancy]

Thanks for the insights Dyer.