The problem with "nice guys" - Comments please

[alphamale]

Nice guys just don't turn women on.

 

Why? There are lots of reasons. But let's start with the basics. They're just not exciting. Have you heard the country song, "Ladies love outlaws"? Most women are attracted to a little bit of danger. Plus, in order to have the "in love" feeling, a woman has to have her love returned somewhat, but not altogether, and yet she has to have hope of having it returned altogether in the future.

 

Women need the excitement that makes her wonder, "Will he call or won't he?" Don't become too predictable. Yes, nice guys often finish last. Maybe it's because there's no challenge. Maybe it's because too nice is too boring.

 

Nice guys give too much too soon. They need to learn to give a little bit, and not consistently. Giving consistently doesn't make a woman want more. Giving intermittently makes her want more.

 

The kiss of death for a relationship (in the courting stage) is when they are always there for her and she knows you love her more than life. That's a lot more pressure than a woman wants in the beginning of a relationship. She wants a little equality, in terms of you both deciding at a similar speed if you want to be in a romantic relationship -- not you've decided and now she has to get on board.

[tattoomytoe]

i would love a "Nice" man. and it seems i find one and then he turns @sshole on me....

 

Why is that Alpha?

[bebop]

Well . . .

 

I once had a total lapse in judgment and got into a mindbendingly intense long thing with a bad guy. The physical/chemistry/sex stuff was just insane. He treated me horribly throughout, verbally and emotionally abusive. Never before, and never again.

 

On the other hand, I've had a now 29-year deep friendship with my ex-husband, who is indeed a Nice Guy, but not really any great shakes in the sack, has no idea how to play headgames, just a nice guy.

 

Which would I rather have in my life? My ex, hands down.

 

[savethedrama4allama]

The guy I'm dating was 100% sweetheart in the beginning, hooked me in, and is slowly turning into a jackass.

 

No offense, but I do not agree with your theory in the slightest.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by bebop

I once had a total lapse in judgment and got into a mindbendingly intense long thing with a bad guy. The physical/chemistry/sex stuff was just insane. He treated me horribly throughout, verbally and emotionally abusive. Never before, and never again.

 

On the other hand, I've had a now 29-year deep friendship with my ex-husband, who is indeed a Nice Guy, but not really any great shakes in the sack, has no idea how to play headgames, just a nice guy.

 

Which would I rather have in my life? My ex, hands down.

 

 

Maybe BEBOP:

 

But who would you like to have the romantic, crazy, sex-filled 4 day weekend fling to the Bahamas with? I doubt it would be your ex.

 

alpha

[jellybean]

Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama

The guy I'm dating was 100% sweetheart in the beginning, hooked me in, and is slowly turning into a jackass.

 

No offense, but I do not agree with your theory in the slightest.

 

Never have I had my heart more shattered than from supposed 'nice guys'. Many are simply jerks in disguise, and expert manipulators.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by jellybean

Never have I had my heart more shattered than from supposed 'nice guys'. Many are simply jerks in disguise, and expert manipulators.

 

 

JELLYBEAN:

 

There is a BIG difference between a jerk who masquerades as a nice dude in the beginning and then lets his true colors show later.

 

What I was referring to in the original post are the really nice guys. You know the type, would do anyting for anyone, never get mad, no spine, agree with everyone, are friends with lots of women.

 

The former is a wolf in sheeps clothing. But remember that women do this too and that EVERYONE is on their best behaviior at beginning of new relationship.

[bebop]

Originally posted by alphamale

Maybe BEBOP:

 

But who would you like to have the romantic, crazy, sex-filled 4 day weekend fling to the Bahamas with? I doubt it would be your ex.

 

alpha

 

No, you know why? Because not one minute of that bad-guy escapade was worth it. I came out of it feeling like a total dog for a very long time.

The Bahamas, I would choose neither of them. I'd choose my fiance, who is that rarest of combinations - a truly nice, good, kind man who is also the sexiest thing I've ever seen, and with whom the chemistry is sssssmokin'.

 

[Scarlett_girl]

my ex..who was a nice guy with a good heart was also quite possesive and controlling...and he was totally in love with me..i knew he worshiped me like a godess and he had a good heart,sweet guy BUT had some other not so great qualities that took me 2 years to notice..

sorry but i dont think any guy out there is perfectly NICE...they might just be better at hiding their not so sweet qualities..

oh and yes..i prefer it when a guy plays it cool with me..the exticement of "will he?? does he??" is more fun and build great tension..all to be release with your first kiss..good stuff!!

[iceisles]

I don't know what classification I fall into, but I am the farthest there is from the outlaw type. People have told me I'm nice, and going on that premise, I will say that the reason"nice guys finish last" is because they often let others walk all over them. People with genuine hearts are often very forgiving, thus allowing their partners to "get away" with more things, sometimes at their own peril. I'm not sure if girls want a "challenging" guy, but it has been my experience that when someone is really nice, it can detract from the normal ebb and flow of the relationship. This is to say that the nice guy makes a lot of concessions to try and make the relationship work. Many time these concessions are artificial and can be perceived as a lack of genuine interest in the relationship when, in fact, that person may care very much about wanting to compromise for the betterment of the couple.

 

It's sad but true - nice guys are often used as a door-mat, and from my perception, are generally the underdogs when pitted against a true "bad boy."

[Naive]

My first bf was absolutely in love with me. He was the nicest guy I ever went out with. Total gentleman. Sincere. A great listener. Handsome. With all of this I let him go. Why? I still don't know!!! Up to this point he still tells everyone I was the one broke his heart, his first and only love. He was the closest to perfect that there can be. He stayed in love with me for 7 years and he has always thrown it in my face that I let go of someone who really cared for me and loved me to date guys that were jerks. He says I like the bad life. He is a real good friend now, so he tell me how he sees it. He always asks me why did I leave him. He tells me that I like bad a**es, which might be true!!! Why? Again, I don't know Sometimes I think he was TOO nice, too perfect. I wish I could have made my heart fall in love with him instead, everything would be different.

[bebop]

I'm way too old for the will-he-won't-he suspense. I can live without it. There's a thrill to it when you're younger but later in life the bloom goes right off that particular rose. You get to where you prefer clarity and reality, it's much better.

 

[alphamale]

Originally posted by naive_2001

He says I like the bad life. He is a real good friend now, so he tell me how he sees it. He always asks me why did I leave him. He tells me that I like bad a**es, which might be true!!! Why? Again, I don't know

 

 

Dear naive_2001:

 

1) "nice guys" tend to remain friends with exes, bad guys do not

2) the reason why you 're attracted more to bad boys is cause women are emotionally and feelings based. Bad boys make women feel feel feel and bring out strong emotions, something that "nice guys" cannot do.

 

alpha

[iceisles]

Originally posted by alphamale

Dear naive_2001:

 

1) "nice guys" tend to remain friends with exes, bad guys do not

2) the reason why you 're attracted more to bad boys is cause women are emotionally and feelings based. Bad boys make women feel feel feel and bring out strong emotions, something that "nice guys" cannot do.

 

alpha

 

I agree with # 1. I have never seen a bad guy remain friends (at least good friends) with an ex. I've observed many nice guys remaining friends with their exes.

 

On # 2, I agree that "bad boys" are more likely to elicit emotion overall. However, nice guys also tend to be more romantic, so unless the girl is not big into that, I think nice guys can be equally as effective in eliciting emotion - albeit through different outlets. I think the difference is that nice guys require a lot more obscure finesse than the bad boys, who are often more rugged and direct.

[startingover1028]

I'll take the nice guy any day. Even with his lack of "sparkle" and bad-to-the-bone attractiveness, there is something more tempting (for me) in a nice guy.... with all his predictability, honesty, kindness and good intentions.

 

He may not make me weak in the knees at first glance but underneath that sweet exterior sometimes lurks a passionate, sensual animal! .... OH YEAH!

[alphamale]

Originally posted by iceisles

On # 2, I agree that "bad boys" are more likely to elicit emotion overall. However, nice guys also tend to be more romantic, so unless the girl is not big into that, I think nice guys can be equally as effective in eliciting emotion - albeit through different outlets. I think the difference is that nice guys require a lot more obscure finesse than the bad boys, who are often more rugged and direct.

 

 

This is the situation ICEISLES:

 

Bad boys can elicit both the positive and negative emotions from women. "Nice guys" can only elicit the positive emotions.

 

Women LOVE to feel ALL emotions, both good and bad and this is where the "nice guy" falls short.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by tattoomytoe

i would love a "Nice" man. and it seems i find one and then he turns @sshole on me....

 

Why is that Alpha?

 

Because he wasn't a nice guy to begin with. I've been a nice guy my whole life and I agree with Alpha's post. Women want excitement. And like my G/F (if she is still that) mom says, well...see my siggy below.

 

I can't change being a nice guy, but I can be a little better about the "bait" and not giving too much too soon.

[bebop]

There's another factor in all this -

 

Women with dicey backgrounds and upbringings and crummy self-esteem go for the bad guy every single time. Because he reinforces all she has known. Unstable women go to bad guys, with few exceptions.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by alphamale

This is the situation ICEISLES:

 

Bad boys can elicit both the positive and negative emotions from women. "Nice guys" can only elicit the positive emotions.

 

Women LOVE to feel ALL emotions, both good and bad and this is where the "nice guy" falls short.

 

Why would women want the negative emotions, though? Is there some kind of mystical quality or liberation that is attractive about this? I will never be a bad boy, even if it means many more years on the singles circuit.

[bebop]

No, it's a comfort thing. In their backgrounds and history is a life packed with these kinds of negative feelings. They're used to it. So it's what they are drawn to. Even if the thing is bad, it's a comfort, because it's familiar to them.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by naive_2001

My first bf was absolutely in love with me. He was the nicest guy I ever went out with. Total gentleman. Sincere. A great listener. Handsome. With all of this I let him go. Why? I still don't know!!! Up to this point he still tells everyone I was the one broke his heart, his first and only love. He was the closest to perfect that there can be. He stayed in love with me for 7 years and he has always thrown it in my face that I let go of someone who really cared for me and loved me to date guys that were jerks. He says I like the bad life. He is a real good friend now, so he tell me how he sees it. He always asks me why did I leave him. He tells me that I like bad a**es, which might be true!!! Why? Again, I don't know Sometimes I think he was TOO nice, too perfect. I wish I could have made my heart fall in love with him instead, everything would be different.

 

You let him go because deep down, you want a "challenge." Nice guys don't present a challenge in life. They are great husbands, friends and sometimes (not always) great lovers. Every relationship that has ended on me was always the same reason: "No challenge"

 

And every time we've remained friends and they always call and talk to me and tell me they miss me. Why? Because they found their excitement with some jerk who treats them like crap and while that's fun for a few weeks, it wears off pretty fast.

 

Chivalry is not dead and I don't intend on changing who I am to "score" a wife. There has to be someone out there who recognizes a great guy when they see one and jumps on it.

 

Every girl I have dated, their parents have loved me. My current/ex girlfriend, not only does my family tell her "Don't let him get away!", so does HER family! But the problem is, I don't present a challenge to her. She thinks there must be something wrong with ME that I love her and want to be with her. She just can't accept the fact that she is worthy of me and I of her. She's much more comfortable being beaten down by men who are condescending to her and treat her badly....simply because she's comfortable there.

 

So even though I'm told I am a great guy (never any complaints about sex either), I will always lose out to some "bad boy with a tattoo" because to a woman, they want someone to drive their hormones and bad boys do that, nice guys don't.

 

Nice guys finish last.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by bebop

No, it's a comfort thing. In their backgrounds and history is a life packed with these kinds of negative feelings. They're used to it. So it's what they are drawn to. Even if the thing is bad, it's a comfort, because it's familiar to them.

 

This could very well be why my ex left me for a bad guy. I know she has always been attracted to that type, and I wonder why she kept me around as long as she did. If that was the reason, it kinda makes me feel like an old toy that has been replaced with the latest, greatest gizmo.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by bebop

There's another factor in all this -

 

Women with dicey backgrounds and upbringings and crummy self-esteem go for the bad guy every single time. Because he reinforces all she has known. Unstable women go to bad guys, with few exceptions.

 

Exactly. If a woman has low or no self esteem, she'll end up being with a jerk who will remind her of that daily.

[Fayebelle]

Could be sheer laziness. I have a super nice guy now and it compels me to be more of a nice girl- that takes effort. It's easy to bitch, moan, and complain- but when you have a nice guy who warms up your car every morn, cooks dinner every nt, and is all around awesome- well you have to give some effort back. I would never have done laundry or warmed slippers or any one of the nice things I do for my BF if he wasn't so sweet. I'm just at a point now where I appreciate the gestures of a nice guy and want to reciprocate his kindness.

[XNemesisX]

All your theories are true.

 

Now that I think about it, my current ex was not TOO nice in the beginning. Well, he was nice but he didn't lay it on too thick..as ConfusedinOC said - that is where the downfall occurs.. Unfortunately, "nice guys" do seem to lay it on too thick too soon. Ugh. Huge turnoff. Plus, "nice guys" will put up with anything and then they look feminine and like a wimp. Who wants that? If I wanted a girl I would be lesbian

 

I'm probably the poster child for loving bad boys. I'm even kind of embarrassed to say that I even like a bit of a criminal. Every guy I have ever dated has been a bad guy type - except for one and of course I dumped him.

 

Most girls see a guy as a nice guy if they seem desperate. No body wants someone who seems desperate and like their whole life is whole just by you giving them attention.

 

I think this might even go for guys with girls. Don't give too much at least at first. When you do, you just appear so DESPERATE. No body, guy or girl, wants that. Your perceived value plummets.

 

 

Bad Guy: Exciting, unpredictable, gives enough but not too much, masculine, isn't afraid to stick up for himself. Has some meanness to him (not too much, but just enough!).

 

Good Guy: Clingy, desperate, overly friendly and in your face, wimpy, probably a bit feminine, goodie 2 shoes, boring, acts kind of like a girl - hence all his friends that are girls, did I say desperate already?

 

 

Good to be bad.