The problem with "nice guys" - Comments please

[tokyo]

Originally posted by immoralist

The whole "nice guy" lament is really an attack by spurned guys on women who prefer to bend to their will and who prefer someone else. It's an excuse for losing a battle in the mating wars.

 

Instead of acknowledging that she didn't find him interesting, attractive, sexy, etc., these rejected suitors use the "nice guy" attack to feel ok about themselves (after their woman-target selects another guy), to fault the judgment and integrity of the women who had the gall to spurn them and to take a slap at the character of the successful suitor.

 

The "nice guy" lament is a defensive rationalization --albeit one used aggressively--employed by those men who don't get picked-up by women they fancy. It's a balm for wounded pride, and injured vanity.

 

The irony, of course, is that these nice guys are not terribly "nice."

 

Couldn´t have put it better.

[dyermaker]

I find alphamale less and less entertaining, as more people begin to take him seriously.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by theone44

I use to be very nice........until got i tired of women walking all over me,but i woke up quick. I do agree with u about the nice guys,they do finish last . Women want a tough,strong man,someone that stronger than she is. Who is very self-confidence,independent a man who will put her in her place now and then,who is not a push-over,and not clingy,needy and not too available.

 

Dear theone44:

 

My story exactly. AFter being burned many times in my 20's by women I decided to become a MAN. Things are different now and i feel in control of my relationships with women. They have more respect for me now and I put myself #1. The women always come #2 and I am honest with them and tell them that.

 

Women will not respect you unless you respect yourself first.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by alphamale

Women will not respect you unless you respect yourself first.

The trouble with the whole "nice guy/bad guy" polarization is that it never translates to self-respect, it translates to abandoning respect altogether. Which, as Moi points out, is nothing more than immaturity.

 

The proccess is usually this:

 

1. Boy is nice to people in general.

2. Boy meets nice girl.

3. Boy is nice to girl.

4. They're enchanted with one another, and pursue a nice relationship.

5. Boy becomes doormat, in his head he thinks he's being nice.

6. Girl likes the niceness, but wishes he wasn't such a doormat.

7. Girl eventually grows bored of doormat, and finds a nice guy who isn't one.

8. Boy becomes upset, and decides that the reason he was dumped was because he was nice.

9. Boy reads D'angelo, listens to Tom Lykas, becomes alphamale.

10. Boy starts treating girls like crap, attracting girls who are attracted to that.

11. Boy dangerously starts advising others to stop showing women respect, and they listen.

12. The real nice guys, who can accept a woman's preference without playing manipulative games, live happily ever after with whomever's left.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by alphamale

Dear theone44:

 

My story exactly. AFter being burned many times in my 20's by women I decided to become a MAN. Things are different now and i feel in control of my relationships with women. They have more respect for me now and I put myself #1. The women always come #2 and I am honest with them and tell them that.

 

Women will not respect you unless you respect yourself first.

 

Please answer my question, are you in a happy relationship now? Did any of your relationship that you developed after becoming a MAN have turned out the way you wanted them to be? I know nice guys and they never have complained about being too nice. They also treat women with respect and kindness. They DO NOT have problems attracting women. You just don´t get it, do you?

[jellybean]

off topic....

 

I'm starting to tire of you, alphamale.

 

Your username bugs me - ALPHAmale

 

The way you put a title on all your posts - like you're creating some literary masterpiece

 

Your signature line - Clear, concise, honest and blunt advice....from a male perspective. ...as if you're some resident love-advice columnist

 

It all reeks of EGO.

 

Glad I've just discovered the 'ignore user' option on this forum.

[johan]

You might consider alphamale's advice dangerous if you thought he was going to do some kind of harm. But he's just saying stuff you can hear from a lot of guys any time you want. Guys who are bitter about the "nice guy" syndrome gravitate together and reinforce each other anyway.

 

Sooner or later each of them meets a woman he really cares about who won't stand for any games. He'll be forced to knock it off or lose her. This side of alphamale is harmless, because going through the "nice guy/bad guy" debate is like a rite of passage. It's been an interesting debate though.

[moimeme]

going through the "nice guy/bad guy" debate is like a rite of passage

 

Useful insight, that I imagine some fellows get stuck in an endless loop of it, but it's good to point out that it's probably just a phase.

[johan]

...I imagine some fellows get stuck in an endless loop of it...

Natural selection at work. The rest of us get the good women.

[dyermaker]

johan, I wouldn't call it harmless.

 

Plenty of people read it and believe it. Some people even package it up and sell it.

 

You may think, "Hey, more mature women for me"--but think of the poor girl who has her heart broken by the misguided soul taking this advice.

[MelodyJ]

Personally, I find Alphamale somewhat entertaining.

[dyermaker]

Would you sleep with him?

[alphamale]

Originally posted by dyermaker

Would you sleep with him?

 

Dear Dyer;

 

I think it is pretty funny that you cut me down but you are obviously a Zeppelin fan. The four members of that band were the ultimate bad boys of the 70's and between the 4 of them probably slept with 10,000 women not to mention the booze, drugs and ruined hotel rooms.

 

Their music, however, is sensational.

[dyermaker]

Er.. It's not you personally, but more your ideas. It's definitely not your promiscuity, real or imagined, that irks me. If you can do the hotel room thing, more power to you.

 

It's nothing personal, I just find your whole schtick kinda boring, and wish it would stop.

 

We'll agree on the music though. If we could just join hands...

[alphamale]

Originally posted by dyermaker

 

11. Boy dangerously starts advising others to stop showing women respect, and they listen.

 

I have never said you should not show women respect, you should, but you should respect yourself MORE than you respect THEM.

 

There is a big difference man.

[immoralist]

Would you sleep with him?

 

That's always the question, isn't dyer?

 

alphamale can be a caricature of himself (he must avoid unintentional self-parody). On the other hand, he's the shot of testosterone that this ultra-feminine, oh-so-sensitive and play nice website needs. He's a male Spock without allowing us a glimpse into his life.

 

I occasionally enjoy his hyper-masculinist send-ups of the sweet, sensible and sensitive.

 

With alphamale on the prowl, there's less swish on LoveShack.

[johan]

but think of the poor girl who has her heart broken by the misguided soul taking this advice.

I know what you're saying Dyermaker. But what alpha is advocating is hard to pull off. It's mostly theory. If you're a good guy at heart, then it isn't easy for you to jerk someone around and it isn't easy to get a girl to fall for you if you put on some kind of facade like you're trying. If on the other hand you aren't a good guy at heart, then advice from me or alphamale or anyone else here isn't going to make any difference. The fact is guys who buy the theory are the same nice guy doormats who can't get a girl to fall for them anyway. This just really amounts to an alternative method of presenting yourself for rejection.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by johan

I know what you're saying Dyermaker. But what alpha is advocating is hard to pull off. It's mostly theory. If you're a good guy at heart, then it isn't easy for you to jerk someone around and it isn't easy to get a girl to fall for you if you put on some kind of facade like you're trying. If on the other hand you aren't a good guy at heart, then advice from me or alphamale or anyone else here isn't going to make any difference. The fact is guys who buy the theory are the same nice guy doormats who can't get a girl to fall for them anyway. This just really amounts to an alternative method of presenting yourself for rejection.

 

 

Hey man,

all i am advocating is that men stand up and stop being puzzies. I have see so many guys (including myself) get burned and taken advantage of by women that it makes me sick.

 

Men in the U.S. need to stand up and be counted. This country is run by females if you take a look around. Men are being used and abused each and every day in relationships.

 

Read some of the posts here on LS from the poor saps who have been wronged by some bytch. It is sick.

 

What it comes down to is that you either take advantage of the woman OR she takes advantage of YOU. there is no middle ground (usually)

[johan]

It's the refuge of disappointed guys who wish like hell they had some power and control over their relationships. It's like sneaking around in the alley behind the House of Women trying to pick the lock to the back door. Sooner or later you just have to walk in the front door and do it their way.

 

If you don't have the "power", you don't have it. You can't act like it and fool anyone. Least of all women who are designed to clue into things like that.

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by immoralist

he's the shot of testosterone that this ultra-feminine, oh-so-sensitive and play nice website needs.

Shot of testosterone, gimme a break--What about a character that highlights the positive aspects of masculinity? Like respect, responsibility...

 

If there's one thing the community doesn't need, it's another advocate for the challenge game. If intelligent social interactions are "ultra-feminine", I guess I should schedule my surgery.

Originally posted by johan

But what alpha is advocating is hard to pull off. It's mostly theory. If you're a good guy at heart, then it isn't easy for you to jerk someone around and it isn't easy to get a girl to fall for you if you put on some kind of facade like you're trying.

That's *why* it's so dangerous.

 

Alphamale can pretend it's not about treating women poorly, and for him, perhaps, it's not--but that's what happens when you arm people with the "cocky and confident" formula. It's ultimately hurtful, and ultimately it stops people who would have otherwise matured from growing up.

 

The end result is a jaded, formerly-nice, chain-smoking, cocky bastard who sits in bars and tells heartbroken youngsters that women are all bitches and need to be mistreated. With the advent of the internet, the bar room just got a lot bigger.

[johan]

You're 16. Right.

 

It doesn't work. It's just theory. Nice guys don't mess women around, no matter how much they wish they could. It's a great discussion, but it's nothing to worry about. Except the fact that a poor bitter doormat is going to be bitter for longer when this strategy fails, too. I'm telling you, there's one way in.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by dyermaker

-but that's what happens when you arm people with the "cocky and confident" formula. It's ultimately hurtful, and ultimately it stops people who would have otherwise matured from growing up.

 

most of the extremly successful men are cocky and confident DYERMAKER.

 

let's see:

 

- JFK

- George W. Bush

- Bill Gates

- Donald Trump

- Michael Jordan

- Jimmy Page

- Luciano Pavoratti

- Alexander the Great

 

...and a million others, you think these men would have gotten to where they got be being non-confident and not cocky?

 

cockiness and confidence gives a man the ability to do anything he wants. and women flock to those traits like mosquitoes to light.

[johan]

let's see:

 

- JFK

- George W. Bush

- Bill Gates

- Donald Trump

- Michael Jordan

- Jimmy Page

- Luciano Pavoratti

- Alexander the Great

Which one are you most like alphamale? None of those guys would have wasted their time theorizing about it on Loveshack.

 

Face it alpha, you're a nice guy. A sheep in wolf's clothing. Some girl will appreciate you for everything you aren't trying to be and you won't have to waste so much energy proclaiming your alphaness.

[dyermaker]

I think you can do better than that.

 

You've never:

 

1. Met any of those people.

2. Dated any of those people.

3. Spoken to any of those people's significant others.

 

I stand by what I said, when you arm innocent people with the challenge game, they do nothing but hurt other people.

 

You're giving them positive reinforcement for negative behavior. Getting down on "being nice" is a natural stage of growing up, and the Challenge game is nothing more than a way to avoid growing up. People should all have the joy of adult relationships, and relationships that are based on manipulation are not.

 

And, not that it matters, but Jimmy Page is extremely humble and soft-spoken.

 

cockiness and confidence gives a man the ability to do anything he wants. and women flock to those traits like mosquitoes to light.

Artificial cockiness and confidence make a man think the reason they're undesirable is because of other people, instead of themselves--it stunts personal growth.

 

Women flock to those traits like mosquitoes to light. They'll fly towards it, get burned a few times, and, because they're not insects, eventually fly away to something else. That proccess of flying away is called maturity.

[immoralist]

What about a character that highlights the positive aspects of masculinity? Like respect, responsibility...

 

You take alphamale too seriously, dyer. We get a steady diet on LS, by example and counter-example, of right thinking, responsible, and respectful male model behavior. Hell, the dreaded, universally reviled MM haunts these boards by his absence. And that's all to the good. As message board entertainment goes, however, it's very white bread.

 

There is an entertainment function to LS--one that is , however, clearly subordinate to advice and community. And when LS ceases to be entertaining, when all the colorful, controversial, non-pc characters are gone--the spocks, daves, samsons, etc.--LS will be poorer for it. Let the dissonant voices sing; let a 100 flowers bloom.

 

alphamale does not portend the end of Western Civ.