Don't love my wife in love with another woman

[beach]

I have a feeling that if all he was concerned about was himself - he would have left a long time ago.

 

He probably has a great deal of love for her, but is not romantically in love with her.

 

He didn't go into the details on the sex, maybe she was wanting sex as well.

 

I may be wrong, but that is what I gathered from reading brcc's posts.

 

But his title states he doesn't love her.

 

He didn't type that he's not in love with her - he said he doesn't love his wife.

[John-Dough]

But his title states he doesn't love her.

 

He didn't type that he's not in love with her - he said he doesn't love his wife.

 

I could be wrong, but I am thinking that is a matter of semantics, his choice of words so to speak.

 

At least that is how I have interpreted his posts.

[beach]

I could be wrong, but I am thinking that is a matter of semantics, his choice of words so to speak.

 

At least that is how I have interpreted his posts.

 

Really?

 

The words people choose here tells you everything.

 

I don't believe it was an error.

[John-Dough]

Really?

 

The words people choose here tells you everything.

 

I don't believe it was an error.

 

 

I guess we can agree to disagree or we can see what brcc says. Would you accept his answer?

[happy stillmore]

I think Brcc meant to write he is not in love with wife. He clearly loves his wife. If he didn't love his wife, he wouldn't be so torn up about what to do. He is so stressed out knowing he is hurting her and his children. It is evident he does care for her feelings. If he didn't, he would have left without looking back. I understand your point about the flowers and the sex, beach. It may be a little confusing for his wife. I wonder if she initiated the sex after receiving the flowers. Is she trying to hold onto you, Brcc?

[beach]

I guess we can agree to disagree or we can see what brcc says. Would you accept his answer?

 

Of course.

[Speakingofwhich]

She did feel good after the flowers, and that made me feel good too.

 

We've also both been moving away from the sex. We had it once in the middle of the night a few days ago, which was the first time in a few weeks.

 

 

And speakingofwhich, she will blossom after this happen. I just know it. She'll find herself maybe for the first time in her life. She already is an amazing woman, a catch for any man, stunning to behold, a shredded athlete, a dynamic person who has changed herself in incredible ways over the years. The strongest person I know. It's only me that's holding her back now.

 

Glad she liked the flowers! I missed that. Had thought you'd written that she was offended by the gesture.

 

Yes, after reading your posts I can't imagine you're anything but courteous with her (and all others! ).

 

Your quote, "It's only me that's holding her back now," doesn't seem likely (based on what you've written here) and I'd encourage you not to allow yourself to think that way.

 

You probably will both benefit from your D. It will be wonderful if you can remain friends and it seems you have a good start in doing so!

 

I admire you for divorcing rather than beginning an A while married. And also for taking such care to try and end your M in a way that will be least painful for your W and children.

[brcc]

John Dough was correct. I love her very much, as a friend, as the mother of my children, as a strong woman. Never romantically. She has always felt the romantic part for me to a fault. I tried to leave all those times but she would come back begging, promising to be better, and I always said ok, because I didn't want to break her heart. She needed me desperately, or that's how it's always seemed.

 

it would be so much easier if it wasn't this way, if our d was mutual, but she threatens to do all these things if I leave her.

 

Regarding the sex, the therapist told me to pull away gently from her over time. I discussed this with w, then we talked about it in joint therapy. W said, "I don't feel I'm being used. I don't want to stop." She is very passionate in bed, loves sex and a huge part of my problem is how beautiful she is physically. I'm very attracted to her in this way, even though I know it's messing things up. I told the therapist I thought it was disgusting, that on the one hand I'm telling her I don't love her, and on the other I'm sleeping with her. The therapist said, well, she IS your wife. I think my w feels it is a way to stay intimate with me, where we have little else.

 

I do love her, as a friend, as someone I've been through so much with. But I've never had "the spark" for her, he butterflies, the need to be with her. I've never put pics of her up at work, generally I avoid time with her where I can. We don't connect much at all from my viewpoint, but she would argue we're written in the stars together. I've only felt the spark twice. Once when I was 12, once with ow. I could never feel that emotion for my w. She's just not a match, and never has been. I don't feel she understands who I really am at all, though she tries so hard to tell me she does.

Edited December 6, 2013 by brcc

[Speakingofwhich]

John Dough was correct. I love her very much, as a friend, as the mother of my children, as a strong woman. Never romantically. She has always felt the romantic part for me to a fault. I tried to leave all those times but she would come back begging, promising to be better, and I always said ok, because I didn't want to break her heart. She needed me desperately, or that's how it's always seemed.

 

it would be so much easier if it wasn't this way, if our d was mutual, but she threatens to do all these things if I leave her.

 

Regarding the sex, the therapist told me to pull away gently from her over time. I discussed this with w, then we talked about it in joint therapy. W said, "I don't feel I'm being used. I don't want to stop." She is very passionate in bed, loves sex and a huge part of my problem is how beautiful she is physically. I'm very attracted to her in this way, even though I know it's messing things up. I told the therapist I thought it was disgusting, that on the one hand I'm telling her I don't love her, and on the other I'm sleeping with her. The therapist said, well, she IS your wife. I think my w feels it is a way to stay intimate with me, where we have little else.

 

I do love her, as a friend, as someone I've been through so much with. But I've never had "the spark" for her, he butterflies, the need to be with her. I've felt that only twice. Once when I was 12, once with ow.

 

Guess you didn't have opportunity to know the girl you had the spark for at twelve at an age when the two of you were datable?

[beach]

John Dough was correct. I love her very much, as a friend, as the mother of my children, as a strong woman. Never romantically. She has always felt the romantic part for me to a fault. I tried to leave all those times but she would come back begging, promising to be better, and I always said ok, because I didn't want to break her heart. She needed me desperately, or that's how it's always seemed.

 

it would be so much easier if it wasn't this way, if our d was mutual, but she threatens to do all these things if I leave her.

 

Regarding the sex, the therapist told me to pull away gently from her over time. I discussed this with w, then we talked about it in joint therapy. W said, "I don't feel I'm being used. I don't want to stop." She is very passionate in bed, loves sex and a huge part of my problem is how beautiful she is physically. I'm very attracted to her in this way, even though I know it's messing things up. I told the therapist I thought it was disgusting, that on the one hand I'm telling her I don't love her, and on the other I'm sleeping with her. The therapist said, well, she IS your wife. I think my w feels it is a way to stay intimate with me, where we have little else.

 

I do love her, as a friend, as someone I've been through so much with. But I've never had "the spark" for her, he butterflies, the need to be with her. I've never put pics of her up at work, generally I avoid time with her where I can. We don't connect much at all from my viewpoint, but she would argue we're written in the stars together. I've only felt the spark twice. Once when I was 12, once with ow. I could never feel that emotion for my w. She's just not a match, and never has been. I don't feel she understands who I really am at all, though she tries so hard to tell me she does.

 

I find this tragic.

 

Your requirement that being in love requires that spark is misguided.

 

When I've had that spark - it makes me do stupid things that I should never do. It makes me feel unsafe and out of balance.

 

I think it's over rated and shallow.

[brcc]

Many have said I should just stay put. but I feel so empty beach. it's not enough for me to just be friends. I don't want to live or the rest of my life with this person. I want to do it with someone I love. I don't have any illusions about how the butterflies fade, about how truly successful marriages are about companionship. the trouble with me is that those are all predicated on having real love for the person first. love is the glue that allows you to stick it out after the passion dies. Real love stands the test of time. it IS tragic, that I've never felt this way for her... it's been pity and duty that have kept me by her side. And the need to help her become a whole person after the traumas of her childhood. And here we go, full circle with the knight in shining armor problem. THAT is why I married someone in my youth that I didn't love. I thought I could save her, and grow to love her, but I never did. I f'd us both. That's why I say I'm the only thing holding her back, because she HAS grown to be a whole person, but I still feel the same. And she thinks she needs me, but she doesn't.

 

Again, why I asked the therapist if she could hypnotize me into believing I love her. This would be so much easier if that was the case! But I spent all this time with her being a hermit as a person, distant, angry, flirting with other guys in front of me, cruel to my parents, my grandparents, her own children, no support, no tenderness, no kindness, she was a royal B#tch to me for 21 years until ow came into the picture, then she got into therapy and tried to change. She's definitely better now, but in many ways still the same, and I just feel like I've stuck this out for so long, tried for so long, quietly carrying these feelings around until a year ago when they all came pouring out in therapy.. when's it going to be my turn to be happy? Like the song goes, the greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love, and be loved in return.

Edited December 6, 2013 by brcc

[Iguanna]

Nyla you are right. I just feel sympathetic for a person who is willing to change his life in order to find his peace and happiness in his heart.

 

Brcc I support you, don't let harsh people's opinions make you change your mind or the way you decided to go on with your plan. You are responsible for your life and nobody will make you happy than you yourself. I suggest you close your ears, have nice holidays with your family and try to do your best so all of you find the best solution so you are all happy. Best wishes and good luck.

[John-Dough]

But I spent all this time with her being a hermit as a person

 

 

That hits home. My wife goes absolutely no where without me. Some people may like that - but it drives me nuts. I get zero alone time at my home.

[Snowflower]

My boys have no clue (9 and 11) but yes, I believe my daughter and w and I all know this in some form, though we have not said, 'ok we're divorcing in January'.

 

 

See, this is what concerns me. You say that, "you believe my daughter and w know in some form." First of all, why is your daughter involved in this at all? She is a teenager, correct? She doesn't need to know all the details of her parents' marital breakdown. I'm not saying that you're telling your daughter everything but it seems you are trying to make an ally of her, a confidante of sorts and involving her in things she doesn't need to know about.

 

Secondly, there it is again. The vagueness. You and your wife need to have that discussion, "ok, we are divorcing in January." None of the "she knows this is drawing to a close," or, "she has made several comments," etc. The two of you need to have the explicit conversation about the ending of your marriage. This is huge stuff and not the time to be vague, play nicey-nice, etc.

 

Have the discussion that it is going to happen and then get down to the nitty-gritty after the holiday season.

 

Since your wife already "knows" that a divorce is going to happen, taking a little time to clear away the vagueness now shouldn't be any problem. Then, go forward with your holidays!

[John-Dough]

Since your wife already "knows" that a divorce is going to happen, taking a little time to clear away the vagueness now shouldn't be any problem. Then, go forward with your holidays!

 

The thing is brcc knows his wife better than any of us. And he may know what would happen leading into the holidays were he to do that. Not everyone can have a calm, reasonable discussion.

[beach]

While I do think it's tragic and sad that your lack of love will end the M - I do think you need to get blatantly honest about what your plan is going to be.

 

Since the issue is within you - you can work on yourself - your expectations - your growth.

 

My concern all along has been your lack of honesty with your wife. Your mixed signals - your inability to say what's real with complete honesty. This would be a good place to grow and learn.

 

You've made errors in the M (heck we all have) - but now you have a chance to change - and the best change will come when you begin to really put your honest feelings on the table and your plan of action in place that goes along with those feelings. That way there's no confusion about your intentions.

 

State the obvious and act accordingly. Instead of buying flowers and having sex with her - begin packing boxes and setting them aside - that way she "sees" what you intend to "do".

[brcc]

There's no way to tell her before the holidays and not have it blow up in my face, in everyone's face. Snowflower, I appreciate the need to not delay this any longer, to prevent her suffering, but she is not suffering nearly as badly as what will happen when I tell hat that. Those two things are way out of balance... on one side of the scale, save her a month of feeling insecure, on the other, destroy the holidays for the family, face a maelstrom of attacks from her in front of our families, possibly set myself up to be stuck living in my house while in a separation, ruining and disrespecting my daughter's pointe performance that she's worked for years to achieve... the list goes on. That would be a huge mistake for me. As long as I am with my wife, she's ok, she's winning, time benefits her, not me. Sure it's hard for her now, but not nearly as hard as it will be.

 

John_dough, I feel this strange connection to you, like we've both lived the same life or something! lol. My w has drawn the hermit card 3 times in a row in tarot card readings (something I don't subscribe to, but wow). She has few friends beside me, is very controlling of the ones she loves, in other words she's extremely co-dependent. Which is a concern for me leaving her, as I think you said once. I worry about how she would do without shelter. She's strong, but not empowered, not confident. In some ways I think her love for me is more of a simple need... to have security.

[John-Dough]

John_dough, I feel this strange connection to you, like we've both lived the same life or something! lol. My w has drawn the hermit card 3 times in a row in tarot card readings (something I don't subscribe to, but wow). She has few friends beside me, is very controlling of the ones she loves, in other words she's extremely co-dependent. Which is a concern for me leaving her, as I think you said once. I worry about how she would do without shelter. She's strong, but not empowered, not confident. In some ways I think her love for me is more of a simple need... to have security.

 

I agree. I did some search on the internet that led me to this thread. I don't remember now, what it was. But, I started reading it and said - I know this situation. I felt compelled to register on this site and join in the conversation. Funny how things work.

[beach]

Here is an explanation of the hermit card.

 

Read up on it - it doesn't necessarily describe what I think you were inferring. In fact - I think it may be useful to consider honesty with your wife even more than I thought before...

 

Introduction: The Hermit is an extremely spiritual card, and often has to do with institutions and large organizations - everything from a bank to the entire Christian Church. This card indicates spirituality even if you are an atheist. It's in whatever sense the word "spirit" makes sense to you, even if for you "spirit" equates to "emotion." You may be trying hard to figure out what the "truth" is about someone (or some matter), don't feel that you have to do it all on your own, ask for help if you need it to gain different perspectives, more information, etc.

[Snowflower]

There's no way to tell her before the holidays and not have it blow up in my face, in everyone's face. Snowflower, I appreciate the need to not delay this any longer, to prevent her suffering, but she is not suffering nearly as badly as what will happen when I tell hat that.

 

Okay, thank you for answering and taking the time to explain.

 

Look, you know your situation best (obviously ) but I'm glad that it seems the objectivity of most of the posters here has seemed to help you. There is never a good time to tell her that you're through but some times are better than others, like waiting a few more weeks rather than now. I understand better now.

 

FWIW, I am not trying to guilt you into staying in a situation that is unhappy for you. And while I can't speak for them, the other posters here who are posting the "alternative side" of your perspective, well I don't think they are trying to do that either. I just don't want to see your wife (and children) hurt any more than is necessary.

 

Yes, you do deserve to be happy and yes, you will be trying to achieve that somewhat at your wife's and children's expense, at least initially. However, there are ways to do this less harmfully and that is what I am trying to advocate as are some of the others here.

 

I believe that if one of the spouses in the marriage is desperately unhappy and has been for a long time, then the marriage is really truly unhappy for both spouses. Even if the "happier spouse" would like to remain in the marriage, the marriage is broken if one of the spouses is unhappy and wishes to leave. It is a partnership after all.

 

My hope for you is that you are making these decisions without the influence of the "what ifs" you have about the OW. I hope that you are making the decision to end your marriage based on its failure to provide with you what you need and not because you are chasing a fantasy.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Snowflower

[brcc]

Great post, Snowflower. I agree wholeheartedly.

 

The one that really hits home is what you said about my happiness at the expense of my w and kids. That's the single biggest thing keeping me in this relationship - the horribly selfish nature of this divorce. Maybe now you can understand why I've wanted her to understand it the way I do, so we can end it together, with her seeing that she's been living under the sword of Damocles with me as her partner, which is no way for anyone to live.

 

I also like what you said about the partnership. To do it right, I think the divorce should be a partnership too.

 

Over the past year I've told her so many soul-crushing things, the biggest being 'I've never loved you and never will'. I think of all those words as seeds. While I was telling her these things she was a saint to me, but now the teeth are starting to come out as she processes the feelings. She's saying things to me she's never said before, like "I'm not sure if I loved you either."

 

My first therapist told me early on, "No! Never tell her you don't love her. That will come back to bite you, she'll process and get angry and it'll end your marriage." At the time he didn't really realize I truly wanted to leave.

 

So recalling what my good friend said to me the other day about putting in this last period of time - what I took from it is to be there for her as she goes through this process, take the heat (as the seeds take root) with genuine altruism, allow her to feel the anger without retaliation, so that she can see/feel the truth for herself, and we will both be able to leave in peace, knowing it's right. It's happening every day in little ways. I can see her going through the motions, saying these things about how frustrated she's been. Hence, her reprimanding my daughter and I the other night. It was another step closer I think.

 

Regarding ow, yes I have strong feelings for her, but at the moment it is just a fantasy that might be real or might not. The real thing I'm facing is my marriage, and no matter how I look at it, totally apart from ow, I always come up with the same conclusion, that I have a loving household and a beautiful family I don't want to hurt, but I know my marriage is built on a faulty foundation. I've never been happy, never felt like she was the one, and because I haven't been able to shake it in 22 years, I'll probably always feel this way. It's not healthy or fair for her either, to live her life with someone who feels this way and has tried to leave her ever since getting together. She needs to grow to accept this truth so that she can be happy knowing our divorce, as painful as it is, is the best thing for all involved. That is my path going forward, in a nutshell. Or how I hope it goes.

Edited December 6, 2013 by brcc

[Ruby Slippers]

Maybe now you can understand why I've wanted her to understand it the way I do, so we can end it together, with her seeing that she's been living under the sword of Damocles with me as her partner, which is no way for anyone to live.

 

I also like what you said about the partnership. To do it right, I think the divorce should be a partnership too..

I agree this is the right approach.

 

Though it certainly wasn't a decades-long marriage, when I ended my last relationship, it was very important to me to talk through all the reasons with my boyfriend, try to help him understand my reasoning, be open to his input and concerns. My thinking was that it would be better for us to agree it wasn't working and part amicably, rather than just tell him it's over and leave without any real explanation or understanding.

 

I still had to make the call to end it, and he fought it, but I think he understood where I was coming from, that I really was looking out for both of us and our long-term happiness.

 

I hoped that if I ended it this way, we would carry forward much less emotional baggage, resentment, and bad feelings. I know that's been the case for me, and I bet he'd agree on that.

 

You don't just suddenly end a 22-year marriage. I would imagine it's a process of gradually unwinding yourselves from it. I respect that you're trying to give everyone as soft a landing as possible. That shows me that though you're not in love with her, you do love and care for her and your family, and are doing the best you can given the circumstances.

[brcc]

I think I will take Iguanna and my friend/confidant's advice and step away now for a while and try to just enjoy the holidays, my family, possibly my last days with us all under the same roof. Starting my new 2nd job in Jan, which will allow me to start saving to move out. I think things are coming together as well as they can. We'll see what the future holds.

 

Thanks again everyone. I'll come back here and post again if anything significant happens.

[John-Dough]

I think I will take Iguanna and my friend/confidant's advice and step away now for a while and try to just enjoy the holidays, my family, possibly my last days with us all under the same roof. Starting my new 2nd job in Jan, which will allow me to start saving to move out. I think things are coming together as well as they can. We'll see what the future holds.

 

Thanks again everyone. I'll come back here and post again if anything significant happens.

 

Good luck, my friend! Please do keep us informed - I am curious how things go.

[brcc]

Thanks JD! I'll definitely be back.

 

In the meantime, I'm sure I won't be able to resist popping onto the thread sporadically to read your posts, so if any of you have more insights to share, please do! Very grateful for your time and input- it's been so incredibly valuable. Just an enormous help to me at a very confusing time.

 

Cheers and happy holidays!

Edited December 6, 2013 by brcc