Don't love my wife in love with another woman

[rumbleseat]

Speakingofwhich,

 

That sounds horrible, and I'm really sorry you had to go through all of that.

 

The thing is the op's wife (and probably his kids too)know something is wrong, she's already been told he isn't happy and may decide to leave.

 

I don't like to talk about it, but I experienced something similar. It wasn't 't Christmas ( that's not a special day for us), but we did have a day that is equally special.

 

 

My spouse told me a few months before that day that he wasn't happy, thought he wanted to leave but wanted to try and work things out if we could before he decided.He never told me one way or the other, and we both put on our best front for our kids. We did the counselling and all of that, and he seemed to be okay with the progress we'd made. He never really said much about it.

 

We celebrated that day, but our kids knew something was up. I did my best, and part of me figured that if he'd stuck around that long, did the counselling(which we did) and he seemed happy enough, hadn't brought up separation or divorce, that we wanted to stay.

 

It was the most awful time of my life. I was terrified of doing or saying the wrong thing that would make him decide to leave. I was sick all the time, lost an unhealthy amount of weight, couldn't sleep and used all my energy trying to make him happy and looking after our kids. That is simply not sustainable.

 

The stress was terrible for our kids too. We tried to hide everything from them, but they knew, in a vague way, what was going on.

 

A few weeks after that day, he left. He told me he'd decided he wasn't happy and that he needed time on his own (turns out being "on his own " meant dating a woman he'd been having an emotional affair with, but I digress)

 

That spoiled that day for us, and we don't celebrate it anymore. When discussion about that day comes up for any reason, my kids change the subject. They have asked about it in that day since, and they have said they knew something was wrong between us, but not what.

 

It's really sucky, as that day is a common occurrence around here, and whenever it happens, it's celebrated by the whole community, except us.

 

(We reconciled and are really happy together, but that does nothing to take the sting away from that day. I wish he had been honest with me and not put me through all of that)

[Iguanna]

brcc I truly with all my heart wish you to find the peace you are seeking in your heart.

[John-Dough]

I got the impression he was going to take his time with this and I assumed it would be well past the holidays, but maybe I misunderstood.

[John-Dough]

To Snowflower - no real outside influence, besides my thoughts. And I actually have no idea what my conclusion will be - it depends on how things go. I have been pushed before, on a pretty regular basis - there has been a lull for a while - but I am pretty sure it will pop up again. And I am really not in the mood to take too much more. I am getting too old for that ....

 

Plus I have some issues I want to address and will try and do that. But, I WILL wait until after the holiday season. The only thing is, I am pretty sure anything I bring up will be met with an attack on me. I will try and do it tactfully and take my part of the blame - because in the end that part doesn't really matter. I need to not be a 'conflict avoider'.

 

When I read brcc's post - I knew exactly where he was coming from. He sounds a lot further along than I am.

Edited December 3, 2013 by John-Dough

[brcc]

It's hard to really get a clear view inside someone's life through posts on a forum, so I understand why some of you push for me to end this now as opposed to later. But again, those of you who push for what you think is right are making determinations based on a surface-level analysis. My life, just like everyone's, is rich and complicated and unique, with daily experiences, feelings, interactions that could never be a part of this simple thread. I have to handle this in a way that I feel is right for me, based on all those complexities.

 

Also I've heard many say I should be honest, tell her the truth. I've done this a thousand different ways, both explicitly and between the lines... I've done it with anger, done it calmly, rationally. There is nothing left to say. It's all out on the table. She knows, both from our direct, clear talks and also from my daily actions.

 

We are heading for a close to our relationship. She knows it too, even if she has yet to accept it. I think she's always known. Every day now there is something that confirms it. A conflict or a sharp comment. She is processing her feelings. I'm trying to listen and be there for her. I can see her making her way toward acceptance, seeing that she doesn't need this in her life, but she isn't there yet. She's said a number of times, "I don't know why I'm even doing this anymore," which, as sad as it is, is the right thing to feel. My daughter, now a teen, knows too, just by being around us. She's not a little girl anymore, I know she gets what's happening, and she and I have grown very close over this. Friends of my w have also been popping out of the woodwork with messages on fb, etc, like 'brcc, I'm your friend just as much as I am hers, remember that'. I think even her parents can sense it. I know she's spoken to them about our problems and I've seen it in subtle changes in their behaviour.

 

As I've said so many times, I respect her, love her as a friend, and you don't just drop 22 years of marriage because 'it needs to be done now'. This is a long and complex relationship. Something like this needs to be unwound, not dropped like a hot rock. At least in my situation. We are heading toward the inevitable, but I want to make sure she is strong, can land on her feet, and likewise with my kids. It's like a rubber band, I am truthful to her in my actions and words, and she is damaged, angry, resentful, then I bolster her and let her know it's going to be ok, each time getting closer to the end result. This is a process that I know in my heart is right for us. She needs to learn how to let go, and this takes time.

 

It's also in my best interest to leave without a colossal mess, with her hating me, poisoning my kids minds with hateful things about me, which is what it would be if I just pulled the trigger, especially during the holiday season! Also I have no money to move out! No structure, no means to make it happen yet, although those pieces are falling into place.

 

There is a right time and a right way to do it. I'm coming to understand this. A way that will help us both, and our kids, have as much peace as possible going through this traumatic event, and it will happen when the time is right. It's already started. There's no going back.

 

As for ow, we are at a place where we're avoiding even getting into each other's field of view. Whether it happens with her or not is irrelevant, really. She may be crazy, she may be my life partner. I don't know.

 

Without ow in the picture, all things considered, I'm pretty blessed. I've always been surrounded by a strong network of friends and a huge extended family, and my job affords me many perks with fans worldwide and people who love what we do at work. I get more than my share of accolades. I don't think I'll ever be lonely. At least not as lonely as I have been for all these years, feeling trapped in this relationship that was broken from the start. In some ways my daughter has really helped me understand this... I feel like when all is said and done, she's my real soul mate. I love her more than anything. As long as she and my boys are a part of my life I'll think I'll be just fine. I've said my marriage was the worst mistake of my life, which is true, but in a way it's also the greatest thing, because it brought them all to me, and I could've only had those three amazing kids with her and no one else.

Edited December 4, 2013 by brcc

[beach]

So your W and family definitely know you intend to divorce soon, right?

[brcc]

My boys have no clue (9 and 11) but yes, I believe my daughter and w and I all know this in some form, though we have not said, 'ok we're divorcing in January'.

 

Just tonight my w chastised both my daughter and I in one swipe, saying, "If both of you don't want to be around me, I don't care!" Totally unprovoked. We were all laughing 2 mins before. It surprised both of us. Neither of us retaliated, but w went on to berate my daughter while I gritted my teeth.

 

Tucked my daughter into bed with a heartfelt "I love you". She gave me extra kisses tonight. I know she's hurting too. All the while this amazing girl is bringing her whole family together to see her dance in the Nutcracker ballet. She's such a superstar! Why my w treats her own overachieving daughter this way I will never understand. She always has. Since my d was a little girl. I would never say such a thing to her. This is not a case of teen over-exuberance or sassing, it's a case of my w treating our daughter the way she was treated by her mother.

 

I'm trying to give it my best through this period, just bought w a bundle of flowers two days ago, telling her I wanted her to have great Christmas, after we had a rough time at her parents house over Thanksgiving. I wish I could leave now but know I need to stick this out for everyone over the holidays. And I know wife's treatment of me is a reaction to me making clear that I don't love her.

 

I'm sorry, I think this is a venting post, but I'm writing this just after my w has finally retired to bed.

Edited December 5, 2013 by brcc

[John-Dough]

In my situation, if I confront my wife, more than likely there would be hell to pay and staying in the same house would be intolerable. So, I would have to approach things a bit differently. She has major rage/anger issues.

 

I totally understand your approach.

 

Just out of curiosity - during your relationship, have there been various lulls, where everything seems fairly calm and okay. But, you know just around the corner is the next eventual eruption?

[John-Dough]

Without ow in the picture, all things considered, I'm pretty blessed. I've always been surrounded by a strong network of friends and a huge extended family, and my job affords me many perks with fans worldwide and people who love what we do at work. I get more than my share of accolades. I don't think I'll ever be lonely.

 

And I get this too. As, I am involved in an area with lots of exposure and meet lots of people all the time and work with them in a field they are passionate about. Plus - I spent a good deal of time as a bachelor and never minded it - so, I know how to take care of myself. LOL

 

Is it just me or can this site be a little depressing?

Edited December 5, 2013 by John-Dough

[angie2443]

brcc, I don't know what it is exactly, but many of your posts come off as disingenuous to me. In many of your posts, You seem to set your wife up as this nasty person and then you point out what a good guy you are. You seem very concerned about your image.

 

I guess I'm looking at many of the things you've done, or maybe not done, and you don't come across as an innocent person to me. So your wife berated you and your daughter- why didn't you defend your daughter? If your wife is so cold and rages a lot (and maybe she is, I don't know), then why aren't you trying to get your children away from this. I'm not really sure of what you are looking for in the end. Maybe you just want people here to tell you that you are a good guy and to do what you want. Maybe you really are looking for honest answers here. I don't know. I just hope your family heals from all this.

[Iguanna]

brcc, I don't know what it is exactly, but many of your posts come off as disingenuous to me. In many of your posts, You seem to set your wife up as this nasty person and then you point out what a good guy you are. You seem very concerned about your image.

 

I guess I'm looking at many of the things you've done, or maybe not done, and you don't come across as an innocent person to me. So your wife berated you and your daughter- why didn't you defend your daughter? If your wife is so cold and rages a lot (and maybe she is, I don't know), then why aren't you trying to get your children away from this. I'm not really sure of what you are looking for in the end. Maybe you just want people here to tell you that you are a good guy and to do what you want. Maybe you really are looking for honest answers here. I don't know. I just hope your family heals from all this.

 

I don't believe that he has portrayed himself as the good guy and his wife as the bad one. He has said that she is a good person, but with some bad habits (we all have bad habits, this doesn't make us bad people) and that he can't fall in love with her as he was supposed to. It's a site, we are strangers, he doesn't have to prove anything to us, even if we thought the worst for him, why would he even care? He has made his mind and he will go through with his plan. And how exactly do you suggest that he should get his daughter away from her mother? Many parents have bad behaviors sometimes, this doesn't mean the kids have to get away from them, unless this becomes abusive of course. This woman now is hurt, she sees her marriage collapse and she feels useless, she is afraid of the unknown, she feels she isn't loved. I think we should cut her some slack, justify her anger a bit. Things are not black and white.

[angie2443]

Iguanna, I don't know if you're saying that I'm thinking he needs to prove something. I'm simply saying that I get a sense of falseness from many of his posts. It's my opinion, that's all.

[beach]

I think buying your W flowers isn't in alignment with your plan to divorce her.

 

Coupled with the fact that you haven't told her you plan to D her - and it's clear that you aren't being honest with your words and actions.

 

 

Since she is abusive - do you plan to have your daughter only live with you when you divorce?

[angie2443]

I think buying your W flowers isn't in alignment with your plan to divorce her.

 

Coupled with the fact that you haven't told her you plan to D her - and it's clear that you aren't being honest with your words and actions.

 

 

Since she is abusive - do you plan to have your daughter only live with you when you divorce?

 

 

This conveys what I was trying to get at better than my post.

 

brcc, it just sounds to me like you are messing with your wife's head. This is extremely cruel and destructive.

[beach]

You don't love her - and find her abusive...

 

Then you reward bad behavior by buying her flowers!

 

Can you see you send mixed signals?

 

When your feelings/words/actions all match = she will definitely get a strong idea you aren't interested in a future with her!

 

 

Are you planning to skip a Christmas gift for her?

[lucy_in_disguise]

Brcc,

 

I don't mean to offend, but the more I read your posts, the more I believe you are a tas delusional about your intentions and behaivior.

 

You say your wife and kid(s) "know" you are just waiting for the right time to leave, yet you are buying your wife flowers for the holidays? Wtf? That is mixed messaging if I ever saw it, and the only purpose it serves is to make you feel like you're not the bad guy - at the cost of further fcvking with your wife's head.

 

Guess what... There is no right time to leave, and there is no way for people not to get hurt. You keep trying to justify your choice by putting it on your wife for "acting crazy" but guess what... I'd wager that your mixed messages for the last 22 years helped to make her this way.

 

Being honest and helping your family in his tradition would be sitting down the whole family and coming up with a plan, complete with timetable, for the divorce and subsequent custody arrangements.

 

Not buying your wife bouquets while your boys are happily oblivious. Not secretly looking for jobs while pretending you are giving the marriage a second chance.

 

You have been honest... To a point. Only as far as it takes to convince yourself you've been honest, and are thus relieved of the burden of deception.

 

But being truly honest means being explicit, with the whole family, about your desire for divorce. So they, too, get a chance to prepare.

 

For the love of your kids, stop trying so hard to seem like a good guy. A good guy never would have married and subsequently had 3 kids wih a woman he never loved. You can twist that any way you want, at the end of the day, it is still a cruel and cowardly thing to do. The kindest thing you can do is start owning up to your mistakes, and that starts with being honest with yourself.

[beach]

Brcc,

 

I don't mean to offend, but the more I read your posts, the more I believe you are a tas delusional about your intentions and behaivior.

 

You say your wife and kid(s) "know" you are just waiting for the right time to leave, yet you are buying your wife flowers for the holidays? Wtf? That is mixed messaging if I ever saw it, and the only purpose it serves is to make you feel like you're not the bad guy - at the cost of further fcvking with your wife's head.

 

Guess what... There is no right time to leave, and there is no way for people not to get hurt. You keep trying to justify your choice by putting it on your wife for "acting crazy" but guess what... I'd wager that your mixed messages for the last 22 years helped to make her this way.

 

Being honest and helping your family in his tradition would be sitting down the whole family and coming up with a plan, complete with timetable, for the divorce and subsequent custody arrangements.

 

Not buying your wife bouquets while your boys are happily oblivious. Not secretly looking for jobs while pretending you are giving the marriage a second chance.

 

You have been honest... To a point. Only as far as it takes to convince yourself you've been honest, and are thus relieved of the burden of deception.

 

But being truly honest means being explicit, with the whole family, about your desire for divorce. So they, too, get a chance to prepare.

 

For the love of your kids, stop trying so hard to seem like a good guy. A good guy never would have married and subsequently had 3 kids wih a woman he never loved. You can twist that any way you want, at the end of the day, it is still a cruel and cowardly thing to do. The kindest thing you can do is start owning up to your mistakes, and that starts with being honest with yourself.

 

I agree - the "pretending" continues. Pretending is a form of lying.

 

You want a divorce? Act like it!!!

[Iguanna]

Guys the man has made his decision and he's gonna follow the plan he believes is best for him. This decision was hard enough, is it nice to have some strangers putting guilt on him? His wife is a grown person and she should be able to protect and defend herself or make changes that are needed or confront him on things she doesn't like.

[stillafool]

My boys have no clue (9 and 11) but yes, I believe my daughter and w and I all know this in some form, though we have not said, 'ok we're divorcing in January'.

 

Just tonight my w chastised both my daughter and I in one swipe, saying, "If both of you don't want to be around me, I don't care!" Totally unprovoked. We were all laughing 2 mins before. It surprised both of us. Neither of us retaliated, but w went on to berate my daughter while I gritted my teeth.

 

Tucked my daughter into bed with a heartfelt "I love you". She gave me extra kisses tonight. I know she's hurting too. All the while this amazing girl is bringing her whole family together to see her dance in the Nutcracker ballet. She's such a superstar! Why my w treats her own overachieving daughter this way I will never understand. She always has. Since my d was a little girl. I would never say such a thing to her. This is not a case of teen over-exuberance or sassing, it's a case of my w treating our daughter the way she was treated by her mother.

 

I'm trying to give it my best through this period, just bought w a bundle of flowers two days ago, telling her I wanted her to have great Christmas, after we had a rough time at her parents house over Thanksgiving. I wish I could leave now but know I need to stick this out for everyone over the holidays. And I know wife's treatment of me is a reaction to me making clear that I don't love her.

 

I'm sorry, I think this is a venting post, but I'm writing this just after my w has finally retired to bed.

 

You tell your wife you don't love her then you bring home flowers. Geesh! stop being so confusing to her! If you don't love her and are going to leave her start acting like it so she will know where she stands. Another thing if you thought your wife was being mean to your daughter why did you just grit your teeth instead of defending her?

[syz]

I just want to keep this simple and make several points. You are right no one can know the complicated lay out of your daily life and no forum post will be able to convey that.

 

For my part there was a time when I was in a long term relationship. I had been really attracted to my girlfriend and we'd worked hard at our relationship which had its ups and downs. Eventually I met someone else and it made me aware of something I had known for some time. Namely that I was capable of feeling something far greater than what I felt for my current girlfriend or ever could feel for her. I had only known the other woman for a few days. I should say known of, you can't know someone at all in a few days, but I could sense something important about myself. It was a serious wake up call. I wasn't married and I didn't have kids so my situation was different but I think the same thing applies. I didn't leave my girlfriend for this other person. I left my girlfriend because this other person made me aware of what I was capable of feeling and the kind of love I hoped to have in my life that I knew wasn't possible with the person I was with so I left without it mattering if anything happened with me and the other person at all. In fact I was rather looking forward to be alone. I'm friends with a few ex's but not this one. She was hurt and angry but I know I did her a favor. She deserved to have someone feel about her the way I imagined and I could feel for the this other person. I regret hurting her but I do not regret leaving and I did it as kindly and cleanly as I could.

 

Secondly, this is just an aside from your current issues. If your daughter is being mistreated by your wife in any way you need to stand against that. Even if your wife cuts on you the same way, your daughter hasn't the same skills you have and doesn't have the same perspective. Her mother's treatment of her does something to her psychology that it could never do to yours and sets up the continuation of your daughter being in a relationship in adulthood where she allows those types of swipes and put downs to continue. This has nothing to do with your marriage. In fact you'll be able to do less about it when you leave. Help your daughter have the tools to deal with her mother because once you are gone there will be nothing that stands between her and her mother except her own ability to call her mother on it.

 

I don't know how clear you've been about leaving. You say you've made it clear in several ways to your wife and daughter but not the boys. But for the sake of repeating it I think being clear that the marriage is coming to a close and you both need to prepare for a split is smart. And not giving mixed messages like flowers and presents. Nothing romantic should be going on. Frankly I think if you know you are going to end it you should stop having sexual relations with your wife because it just fosters false hope and is an unkindness. And in the event you are scared she would pull the plug out of anger and ask you to leave she can't make you leave because the house is also yours. A lot of spouses find themselves shocked when they try to kick the other partner out and find they haven't a legal leg to stand on.

 

Good luck.

[Ruby Slippers]

Guys the man has made his decision and he's gonna follow the plan he believes is best for him. This decision was hard enough, is it nice to have some strangers putting guilt on him? His wife is a grown person and she should be able to protect and defend herself or make changes that are needed or confront him on things she doesn't like.

I agree.

 

I feel like a lot of the venom coming at the poster has nothing to do with him. It strikes me mostly as women's pent-up and misdirected feelings of anger and sadness, probably because this story is reminding them of how they've felt unloved by their husbands.

 

I see nothing wrong with giving his wife flowers or Christmas presents. I've really appreciated some of the good will shown to me during breakups, and I've always done my best to remain as civil and kind as possible. Flowers don't have to say "I'm in love with you".

[brcc]

I've told her I want a separation, in no uncertain terms, on MANY occasions. Said I'd be gone now if I could afford it. Now she knows I've taken up this second job. She's told me there'll never be a separation, when I go it'll be a divorce, and she'll come after me for all I'm worth, and take the kids too.

 

I bought her flowers as an offering of peace so we can make it through the holidays. I've explained my position here so many times. Yes I'm still with her and trying to find a way to survive until I can do it. Of course we will have the conversation with the family! I have already been coached through this in numerous dramatizations with my therapist. I want it to be orderly and so does the therapist. With both of us acting responsibly before the kids. You can call this cowardice, but I see it as an investment in all of our futures.

 

I think my mistakes are clear. You can reiterate how stupid it was for me to marry someone I didn't love, and have kids with her, and I'll agree again. Or mention my passive aggressiveness, or how I'm living a lie, or sending mixed messages and screwing with her head, and I'll tell you I'm guilty of all of it. I'm trying to find the best way of fixing all this, stumbling my way through. like the mess I am, as I go. I don't see myself as the good guy. I feel like a liar and a cheat, and yes I've probably flip-flopped dozens of times on this thread, but that's why I'm here, to try to find reason, find myself.

 

I am doing what you are saying I should, albeit in a tangled way. You say there is no good time to do this. Nobody knows this better than me, but I do know there are better times than others, and unleashing the sh#tstorm right now is not a option, ruining the holiday season for years to come? People attach meaning to these times of year. Why do you think there are so many suicides over the holidays? My w herself was raped on her birthday. Every birthday for her was a mess for decades after that. I'm sorry, but I'm not about to attach depression to my kids' childhood memories of Christmas.

 

As John dough said, my w and I have periods where everything is fine. She is not constantly abusive. I've said she's in therapy to overcome this, and has made amazing progress. There is no need to protect my kids from her. I want the kids to decide where they'd like to stay. I don't want the kind of divorce where we're battling for them. I want her to see how it is truly better for her, for the kids, for me to have us part finally, so that we can do this on good terms if possible.

 

John dough, yes this site can be quite depressing at times, opening up all this in front of strangers, your inner most fears, the things you never show to the outside world. It's a b#tch to be judged on all this, but I think part of it was because I think I deserved it.

Edited December 5, 2013 by brcc

[beach]

If the only option she's presented is divorce - then only talk and DO divorce (not separation)!

 

You will never convince me that buying flowers is in alignment with someone who intends to divorce me! That's just manipulation on your part.

[brcc]

btw yes! I do like it when people say I'm a good person despite all the mistakes I've made. It feels good! Guilty as charged. I'm trying to think of MYSELF as a good person. I'm human, and, as evidenced in this thread, so far from perfect.

[brcc]

If the only option she's presented is divorce - then only talk and DO divorce (not separation)!

 

You will never convince me that buying flowers is in alignment with someone who intends to divorce me! That's just manipulation on your part.

 

 

It IS manipulation Beach. To keep things positive, if possible, for this short period of time.

 

My thinking was to have a trial separation to have us each stand on our own two feet and assess things more objectively, outside of our relationship, as this has seemed to work for some. But if divorce is the only option, it's the only option, and I'll gladly take your advice because there is no other alternative.