Don't love my wife in love with another woman

[CarrieT]

brcc, there is one important aspect I hope you can grasp in all this...

 

In having an emotional affair with someone you saw and sent messages to -- but never touched or truly got intimate with -- your mind created a LOT of what you wanted this woman to be.

 

This "love" you felt was not reciprocated because the two of you never really had quality, interpersonal time together. The low, base things that exist between two people that create an honest relationship; a person's smell, how they giggle when you watch a movie, who brushes their teeth first, and how they treat a pet...

 

Much of what you felt was based on some pure chemistry but the rest was what you built it up to be in your mind. She was the perfect fantasy relationship and it is entirely possible that had you been single and you two pursued a relationship, there might not have been enough there in common interests or lifestyles to have built a life together.

 

Many of us have learned that hard lesson. For some, it is known as "GIGS" (Grass Is Greener Syndrome) where we chase what we BELIEVE is the perfect person, only to find out they aren't really compatible whatsoever.

 

I did it. I ended a struggling, 11-year relationship for a guy I met on the 'net who wrote all these amazing words to me. We had amazing chemistry - for the first 13 months - and then it imploded because I was living off the fantasy I had created in my head based on words he said when, in fact, his words were just that: Words. Reality was shockingly different.

 

I commend you with working through your marriage and I don't want you to think you might have sacrificed your happiness for this allusive woman of your dreams when is just that = in your dreams.

[rumbleseat]

How was your weekend? Have you had some time to work through a few more things?

 

One thing to remember is that there can be a positive side to this. A marriage where the husband and wife have worked every hard to move past the infidelity or negative feelings can often turn out to be very strong, able to withstand pretty much anything. This is a wonderful lesson to teach your children. When the going gets tough, if both people are willing to be open, honest and work really hard at it, things can turn around and become so much better than they ever were. If you keep at it, one day you and your wife may be standing together at your kids' weddings, holding hand s and beaming with love and pride both for them and each other

 

(Ugh, now that I have just said some thing really sappy, I'll stop talking )

[Iguanna]

First of all, it's not nice or right to blame someone else for our mistakes and choices. You stayed with her all these years, had a family and I imagine you had some moments of happiness as well. This was your choice. Other than that, I believe you should find a way out of this marriage. I think the best way would be if you moved out of the house for some time, try to see the kids on weekends for some time, see how they adjust, and then do any changes that are needed. After some time and when you think that the kids are ready you can proceed with the divorce.

 

Taking your story as an example though please allow me to wonder, why do we people make these choices and stay in marriages, in relationships, in jobs, in friendships that make us miserable? Why do we let life pass like this? You know what a friend of mine told me? "There is no second life. People get a second life the minute they realize there is no second life, then they start living their life as they want it". It's such a shame to let years pass like this... Just thoughts for young people.

[brcc]

Some really thoughtful posts.

 

CarrieT- you're so right. The fact that I don't really know anything about this person has been ultimately what's kept me where I am. My life isn't perfect, but it's good, leaving one woman for the other would be too much of a gamble, and I have way to much at stake. It's funny though I think I have answers to all those things you randomly posted about knowing someone honestly. The pets one was big for me, because my wife's never really had great relationships with our pets. She doesn't quite know how to treat them. I knew OW was good with hers because I could tell in pics her cats adored her. That was important in a way. It says something about a person I think, how they treat animals.

 

Rumbleseat, not so good this weekend. Wife had a blow up about OW in front of our daughter. I hope the day you mentioned comes, and it is right and good and honest. At this point I feel like I'm staying for the kids, if they weren't in the picture I'd have left my wife a long time ago. But I hope to get past this, to the point where my feelings grow into real love for her. I don't have it yet at all, only a sense of duty.

 

Iguanna, it's not an option to move out. I can't afford it. Also my wife says either divorce or stay, no trial separation. As far as your wonderings... you stated my midlife crisis perfectly. There is no second life. This is it. Will I die never having shared true love with someone? Do I blow it all up and start over and hurt my kids? Or do I sacrafice my happiness for theirs? Or can I find a way to love this person I've never loved? I still don't know. Just stumbling my way through it. I would hope that young people make sure, before ever popping the question, that they have true, honest, healthy, sincere love for one another. With that one thing, and some resolve to be strong during the tough times, I think any relationship can endure.

[brcc]

What helped him to resolve his conflict were two things, really - on the one hand, he worked hard to understand how he allowed himself to become such a passenger in his own life, how his "knight in shining armour" had led to the suppression of his own needs and how to allow himself to lead a more authentic life. He went to counselling, read widely and worked hard at changing his behaviour and responses.

 

Hello again cocorico, could you elaborate on how your h did this, and what exactly he did to change his behaviour and responses? This seems key to me. Again, thanks... such an illuminating post this was and I want to know his secrets. It's uncanny the similarities.

[Iguanna]

Iguanna, it's not an option to move out. I can't afford it. Also my wife says either divorce or stay, no trial separation. As far as your wonderings... you stated my midlife crisis perfectly. There is no second life. This is it. Will I die never having shared true love with someone? Do I blow it all up and start over and hurt my kids? Or do I sacrafice my happiness for theirs? Or can I find a way to love this person I've never loved? I still don't know. Just stumbling my way through it. I would hope that young people make sure, before ever popping the question, that they have true, honest, healthy, sincere love for one another. With that one thing, and some resolve to be strong during the tough times, I think any relationship can endure.

 

So what are your options? Maybe you have written it before and I missed it, I'm sorry. Without wanting to influence you in any way, I think that kids are more happy when they feel their parents are happy than knowing that they only stay together for them. I think this creates a lot of guilt to them and this is of course a bad thing. My parents spent 18 years arguikg and being unhappy and they stayed together for my sake. The result is, now, after all these years, I wish they had separated earlier so I wouldn't be obliged to witness all this hate and misery. Other than that I do feel guilty that I was the reason my mom stayed with him for many years and she spent her best years miserable. We tend to treat kids like they are stupid sometimes but they have a great instinct and while they can't explain or put a feeling into words, most of the times the understand that there is something bad happening around them. In my opinion it's better to explain to the kids what the psychologists use to say in these situations, that mom and dad will always love them but they will be happier living apart etc etc. And you have to know I'm a person who always gives a great priority to kids' than to the parents' psyche. I'm happy to help you if you need to talk etc

[Snowflower]

Also my wife says either divorce or stay, no trial separation. As far as your wonderings... you stated my midlife crisis perfectly. There is no second life. This is it. Will I die never having shared true love with someone? Do I blow it all up and start over and hurt my kids? Or do I sacrafice my happiness for theirs? Or can I find a way to love this person I've never loved? I still don't know. Just stumbling my way through it.

 

So you're back to feeling this way about your wife and marriage again.^^^

 

Just a few pages ago you were talking about how you felt closer to your wife and how proud you were of her running that marathon.

 

Have you been around OW again?

[brcc]

Naw, that quote has nothing to do with OW, and no I haven't been around her. Still avoiding her in every way.

 

It's about my w and I. I AM proud of her, find her beautiful, desire her physically... she's a good person, my best friend and the mother of my children... but I don't love her in "that" way - the chemistry way. I've never had it for her, since the first moment I saw her. I've never felt we were a match, or really even on the same wavelength. Marrying someone I felt this way about was the worst mistake I've ever made... still I have beautiful kids and great things have come of it. Also I don't want to hurt her, because I know how much she loves me. I'm trying to find a way to love her too, as something more than just a friend, the same conundrum I've found myself in for 22 years. This is why I pounce on feelings of pride and admiration for her, trying to turn it into something more. I'm always looking for an angle to convince myself. I've also tried 'just letting it happen', tried everything I know, but truth be told, I still have yet to feel it for her. She's so different now after all this therapy, so maybe there's still hope. I'm trying to think of her as a different person, not the person I met in college, because she truly is different now in most every way.

 

Hopefully that illuminates the passage you quoted.

Edited November 19, 2013 by brcc

[Snowflower]

Naw, that quote has nothing to do with OW, and no I haven't been around her. Still avoiding her in every way.

 

Good! I'm happy to hear that!

~snip~

Also I don't want to hurt her, because I know how much she loves me. I'm trying to find a way to love her too, as something more than just a friend, the same conundrum I've found myself in for 22 years. This is why I pounce on feelings of pride and admiration for her, trying to turn it into something more. I'm always looking for an angle to convince myself.

~snip~

 

Thank you for being so honest here!

 

 

 

Is there any way the two of you can separate for awhile? You mentioned that she got upset about OW in front of your child. So obviously your wife isn't as peachy-keen about this as you have thought.

 

Perhaps some time apart will give you and your wife some time to evaluate your marriage without doing anything permanent.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Snowflower

[brcc]

Snowflower, thanks so much for hanging with me on this. The ability to talk to someone in a meaningful way is super important right now. If I go to our MC she's going to know it's about my problems with her and/or OW which will open an can of worms for us where we've finally reached some stasis after this ordeal. Likewise if I see a different therapist. I'll be leaving for mysterious appointments and she'll wonder, so right now loveshack is it.

 

To answer your question, I want a trial separation, but she said no. If you go, it'll be for good, I'll take the kids, move away, sue you, etc. Someone here said they were hollow threats, which I know is accurate-- the law. But I don't want a big ugly mess either.

 

Regardless, I'm currently looking into a second job to facilitate moving out. I've told her we don't have to be enemies, that I'll still support her fully, get an apt nearby, continue to do everything with the kids I currently do, but she holds onto me like there's no tomorrow. It's wrong for both of us. She deserves more in a husband than someone who's always wanted to leave her. And I want to be free of this unhappiness I've carried around all these years. I'm constantly torn between A) giving this more time to see if I develop feelings, affording me the luxury of continuing to be under the same roof as my kids, and B) knowing in my heart of hearts that I've never felt it for her and never will.

 

Any ideas? Thanks again for being kind and listening to the plight of this whack job. You live up to your signature.

Edited November 20, 2013 by brcc

[janedoe67]

I think something that people may not realize is that a WS/FWS goes through their OWN roller coaster, albeit one of their own making. If the pre A marriage was highly dysfunctional, then yes the WS/FWS - even a remorseful and changing one - can go through days of feeling close to their BS and days of being ambivalent and days of being helpless. It does NOT always mean NC was broken.

 

brcc, I think that as you work on yourself and make a conscious effort to see your wife differently, you WILL notices consistent changes in your feelings.

[brcc]

A relief to read that last line janedoe. I want it to happen. I don't always do a good job consciously seeing her differently because I'm so jaded about the years of dysfunction. Hopefully time will help me learn acceptance, be grateful for what I have, get past this passive aggression.

 

She's had some flare-ups lately. Non-sequiturs, like lambasting me out of the blue, blurting out OWs name in front of our 14 year old daughter, who she's exposed OW to. I read something that said expect this to happen as she processes. Trying to, and I know I'm to blame for my emotional infidelity, but it sent me into a spiral all over again, how little she seems to care about her behaviour in front of our kids, keeping them innocent. It's as if she's subconsciously sabotaging things, planting seeds so they'll side with her. I got angry, we tried to talk, reached a meager resolution, she went back to her subservient posture, catering to my every need, and a night later we screwed. Such a twisted web. It makes me feel ill sometimes.

Edited November 20, 2013 by brcc

[Snowflower]

Thanks, brcc. I had a much longer response typed up but then I decided to delete it. While it would (maybe) be helpful for your situation, it was too personal for me for a public forum.

 

Let me think on how I can help you without me having to explain everything.

 

I do wonder though, you seemed to want to work on things with your wife last week but now have changed your mind. If you are really that ambivalent then perhaps you have your answer.

[Snowflower]

I think something that people may not realize is that a WS/FWS goes through their OWN roller coaster, albeit one of their own making. If the pre A marriage was highly dysfunctional, then yes the WS/FWS - even a remorseful and changing one - can go through days of feeling close to their BS and days of being ambivalent and days of being helpless. It does NOT always mean NC was broken.

 

 

 

You bring up a good point here, jane. Gives me something to think about, that is for sure.

[brcc]

still trying snowflower, just vascillating endlessly as I always have with her. Don't hurt her, don't blow up your family, look at the positives, it will get better vs I'm not happy, never have been.

[Iguanna]

I think it's a huge responsibility to try to convince someone that he should stay unhappy and not do anything for it while he's "crying" for help. I really feel bad for you cause I know it's really hard for someone to come to the realization he's not happy and try to change it, even more to tell this person "dude you have no rescue, you'll stay unhappy". It's like being in a boat sinking and you see me holding the life jacket and instead give it to you I throw it away and say "no you don't get to take this, save yourself as you can". Really sad. Do something for yourself, read my post, kids don't want to see unhappy parents and feel responsible for that, it's unfair to all of you...

[brcc]

You mean another thread on the site? Can you post the link?

 

Wife's an amazing woman. Also down on myself asking why I don't have feelings for her?? All I can come up with is it's a chemistry thing, either you have it with someone or you don't. Why can't I just love her? Someone asked that on another forum. I don't know why! I actually asked a therapist once if they could hypnotize me into believing it.

Edited November 20, 2013 by brcc

[Iguanna]

Yes Iguanna. It's also a bummer knowing I'll be unhappy either way, staying or leaving. Only possible happy outcome would be finding a way to fall in love her for the first time.

 

NO! You can't predict the future that's why it scares you and you choose the "easiest" solution than to make the big step. Your future if you stay will be pretty much predictable - lets not kid ourselves, nobody can fall in love with someone under pressure. But if you do listen to your heart and leave, then my friend you don't know what will happen. You may die alone or you may meet someone and experience these new found feelings. Don't settle with the safety road. After all you have seen this road doesn't make you happy. At least with the "unknown" you don't know what will happen...

[Iguanna]

Without wanting to influence you in any way, I think that kids are more happy when they feel their parents are happy than knowing that they only stay together for them. I think this creates a lot of guilt to them and this is of course a bad thing. My parents spent 18 years arguing and being unhappy and they stayed together for my sake. The result is, now, after all these years, I wish they had separated earlier so I wouldn't be obliged to witness all this hate and misery. Other than that I do feel guilty that I was the reason my mom stayed with him for many years and she spent her best years miserable. We tend to treat kids like they are stupid sometimes but they have a great instinct and while they can't explain or put a feeling into words, most of the times the understand that there is something bad happening around them. In my opinion it's better to explain to the kids what the psychologists use to say in these situations, that mom and dad will always love them but they will be happier living apart etc etc. And you have to know I'm a person who always gives a great priority to kids' than to the parents' psyche. I'm happy to help you if you need to talk etc

 

I'm talking about this post

 

I'm sorry if I seem to press you into making a decision, but I don't feel good knowing someone is suffering so much and I try to make you see some things that your state of mind may keep you from seeing them, I mean your mind may not be very clear, a third person can see things more clearly sometimes.

[brcc]

You're right. And I am afraid. So much of my decision making comes from that fear of the unknown. I'm not afraid of being alone, just of having my wife, kids hate me for the decision. I think the kids definitely sense something is wrong, but openly we are all a very close family and do lots of fun stuff together, so it's not like we're bickering constantly. There's just a very subtle undercurrent, but maybe that's just as bad. We've definitely had our 'public' outbreaks in front of them, but for us it's more outwardly happy, laughing, kissing, showing affection, with me occasionally escaping to my office or someplace private to be alone.

 

How is your relationship with your parents now?

Edited November 20, 2013 by brcc

[Iguanna]

How is your relationship with your parents now?

 

My mom got a divorce when I was 18, she was 39. Since then she enjoyed life ( I often say she became a teenager after the divorce), now I see her happy, doing stuff for herself, making trips, having a new career, and I feel kind of responsible that she had to wait for 18 years cause of me to get rid of my dad who made us both suffer with fighting constantly and getting drunk. With him I have no relations; I can't yet forgive him..

[brcc]

I'm so sorry that you had to put up with a father like that. I don't blame you for not forgiving. Were you an only child? Also, how did you react when they told you they were splitting up?

 

My dad was distant most of the time but never abusive or irresponsible. I knew he loved us. My mom's had many problems with him. He's said many terrible things to her in the past, but has also saved her life 3 times (he's a doctor) and she knows he loves her. She's a bit of a teenager now too, in her 70s. Off on her own while dad hides at home. I don't see him too often but see her a lot - she's full of positive energy. I love her so much. She and I have often talked about why we picked such problematic 'project' people like this as our spouses, why we have this ridiculous loyalty to them... to a fault. She's encouraged me to move on too.

 

Our home life is not at all like yours was. Neither of us are alcoholics, or outwardly argumentative as I said. We get along fine, all things considered.

 

I am, though, perpetually let down by the way my w communicates with our kids... in the past there was no tenderness from her towards them, but she's learned how to love in recent years. She has a great relationship with them now for the most part, except with my daughter- they still quarrel a lot for no apparent reason. W says it's my daughter's age, her teen attitude, arguments are mostly always my daughter's fault and why don't I back her more when my daughter's acting out. But what I see is my w having no patience, picking fights with my daughter, who is a nearly perfect student, a passionate ballet dancer, keeps us all laughing with her crazy comedy routines... she excels imho in all aspects of her life. Sometimes it seems she's just pleading with my wife to be kind to her. Reminds me of my own past with her... this constant jab for me as I'm trying to find feelings for her. Another consideration in all this is if I leave, will it derail my daughter's love for life? I adore her, my beloved firstborn. I feel like she's my soul mate in so many ways.

 

Thanks for sharing Iguanna.

Edited November 20, 2013 by brcc

[Iguanna]

I'm so sorry that you had to put up with a father like that. I don't blame you for not forgiving. Were you an only child? Also, how did you react when they told you they were splitting up?

 

Yes I was an only child and I was really close with my mom who is the best person I know, she is a loving caring person who has good words for everyone, even if they treat her badly. She is the person I try to be. Since I remember myself I had begged her to leave my dad but she was scared to do that cause she was very young and she thought my dad would use lawyers to take her kid away from her. We had agreed she would take a divorce when I get 18 and this is what happened. I was so RELIEVED. These people weren't supposed to be together.

 

Our home life is not at all like yours was. Neither of us are alcoholics, or outwardly argumentative as I said. We get along fine, all things considered.

 

I am, though, perpetually let down by the way my w communicates with our kids... in the past there was no tenderness from her towards them, but she's learned how to love in recent years. She has a great relationship with them now for the most part, except with my daughter- they still quarrel a lot for no apparent reason. W says it's my daughter's age, her teen attitude, arguments are mostly always my daughter's fault and why don't I back her more when my daughter's acting out. But what I see is my w having no patience, picking fights with my daughter, who is a nearly perfect student, a passionate ballet dancer, keeps us all laughing with her crazy comedy routines... she excels imho in all aspects of her life. Sometimes it seems she's just pleading with my wife to be kind to her. Reminds me of my own past with her... this constant jab for me as I'm trying to find feelings for her. Another consideration in all this is if I leave, will it derail my daughter's love for life? I adore her, my beloved firstborn. I feel like she's my soul mate in so many ways.

 

Thanks for sharing Iguanna.

 

It seems that you don't show your kids what really happens in your heart and hopefully they can't understand the extent of it. Your wife won't change, she will be this kind of mother and wife. So what you have to do is accept this and try to change yourself. For god's sake, please don't push yourself to fall in love with her cause this is a torture! If you are not ready to leave now, put a schedule in your mind and follow this (for example I'll stay for another 3 years). The kids may not understand exactly your feelings now, but they will understand when they grow older and maybe they will feel sympathy for your efforts to stay as a family despite your unhappiness. Other than that, why do you act like you'll never see your kids again if you move out of the house? I'm sure they will come to you on weekends and holidays, and then you will give them your full attention and show them your happy and calm self.

 

Put a deadline in your mind about this matter and follow it or else you'll get crazy with the thoughts every day.

[Iguanna]

I wish my mother had been as brave as yours. I never felt guilty about her choosing to stay with my dad, because it was HER choice. I even told my mother that she needed to leave my father, when I was 12 and his affair came out in an explosive way.

 

Children are NOT responsible if their parents choose to stay in unhappy marriage. Parents are adults who are free to make their own choices.

 

This is true but it's an adult's point of view. A kid has its own realization of things, so feeling guilty is common for kids to feel. They thing it's their fault their parents fight. (I found fast an article about this).

 

This doesn't mean people should stay in miserable marriages. If they have tried a lot and they see no changes or signs of improvement, they have to create the best way to a divorce. Telling the truth to the kids would be considered the best idea, but there are psychologists who can counsel on these matters depending on the age of the kids. Kids don't want unhappy parents, this is for sure. I'm not saying we should give up a marriage and kids with the first difficulty, but constant fighting and trying brings only unhappiness and doubt to the kids.

[rumbleseat]

There's going to be pros and cons whether you decide to stay or go. If you go, you don't get to decide how any one affected feels about it. While you may want to move out but still live nearby so that your wife and kids will still have you around fo support, etc., how they feel afterwards will be up to them.

 

I'm not trying to make you feel guilty, just telling you the truth. they may be terribly hurt and unhappy, they may be okay with it and think it for he best.

 

There is something that you said in one of your posts that makes me wonder if your wife has any understanding of what is really going on. You say that she seems to almost cycle between glimpses of her former behavior, and then when you say anything about it, she goes back to her "subservient behavior". What do you mean by this? What opportunity are you giving her to express how she feels ( outside of when you are with the counselor)?

 

Honestly, the more you post, the more it's starting to sound like , without meaning to, you have put her into a terrible position. It sounds like she thinks that you are trying to decide to stay or go ( which you are), but from her point of view, if she just acts nicely enough, if she's just good enough and if she doesn't make any mistakes, you'll love her and decide to stay. She's like Damacles, a sword hanging over her head, and that's no way to live.

As it stand right now, this woman may well be thinking that this whole thing is her fault, and that is she just changes enough, just bends over backwards enough, you'll choose her.

 

In my opinion, there are also some things that you are keeping from her, probably because it's easier than dealing with the fallout of actually talking with her about them. You wrote "If I go to our MC she's going to know it's about my problems with her and/or OW which will open an can of worms for us where we've finally reached some stasis after this ordeal. Likewise if I see a different therapist. I'll be leaving for mysterious appointments and she'll wonder, so right now loveshack is it." . Does this mean that there are things that you are keeping from your wife because it's easier?

Please don't do that. if ever there was a time for honesty, it's now. She needs to have all the cards laid on the table. As it stands right now, it sounds like she feels that this is all her fault, and it's not. Yes, she may not have been that great of a wife for a long time, but I don't think that was a one way street. It never is. you both played a part, but the one being asked to do all the heavy lifting right now seems to be her. She has to change, she has to find some way to make you love her, she has to be a better mom, she has to live with this over her head, and you aren't even being 100% honest with her?

 

About your kids...there may be some merit to her synopsis that your 14 year old is acting like a 14 year old. This isn't to say that your daughter isn't a wonderful kid, but it's normal for daughters that age to start pulling away from mom, and this can take the form of petty bickering and silly arguments. I've got two daughters who are about her age, and sometimes it seems like someone threw a switch. We went from being close to bickering and petty arguments almost overnight. They are great kids, and I guess they are learning to be independent of their parents .

 

To briefly summarize, there is going to come a time when you either have to pee or get off the pot. Either commit 100% to staying or leave. This "I'll stay, but know that at any time I might decide to go" can't keep going on much longer. It's cruel to expect her to do so.