I do not understand this mentality. At all.

[AnyaNova]

Don't get me wrong. I "get" that it is "his prerogative." I get that he doesn't owe me anything. I get it

 

What I don't get is how, if someone you claimed to have (and I'm pretty sure, actually did) care about, emailed you asking for help about a specific thing, even if for whatever reason, you couldn't help, you couldn't be a friend to them, whatever, how you couldn't take three seconds to say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry, I can't right now."

 

Especially when we did agree to make sure that we had the possibility of contact later, in case down the road we did start to think that maybe we could work it out to be friends.

 

I mean, if you care about somebody, to my mind, even if the nature of it changes...I don't understand how you could close your heart to them completely and not be there for them, or even acknowledge them, if they asked for help.

 

I don't get how you could completely ignore someone you claimed to care about. It just doesn't make sense to me. If the situations were reversed, I would have definitely contacted him (even if I couldn't help, I would have let him know that he'd been heard, but that I couldn't).

 

To me. it really makes me question if he ever really cared at all.

[Minneloa]

I'm sorry you're hurting, Anya. For me, this was the essence (and great challenge) of the breakup: that I would have to accept what I did not fully understand. That is so difficult. But breakups fundamentally shatter the relationship and its dynamics, and people react to loss in wildly different ways.

 

Eventually, you'll just let go of the questions because the answers don't matter anymore. Which is sad, but also a blessing.

 

Sending good thoughts.

 

M.

[JoelBarish]

Dear Anya,

 

You know I am all about the tough love (I probably need some myself).

 

Remember before my breadcrumbs and the ensuing shenanigans I said it's better to assume the worst (in my case assume that she loved the other guy, ect)

 

In your case maybe it's better to assume he doesn't care at all. I don't know how else to help you let go. You are a very caring person and I know you would respond to Tim if the shoe was on the other foot. He is obviously not as caring and decent as you are. Still, I don't know him, but I do know you in an internet sort of way, and I know you deserve someone who treats you better.

[AnyaNova]

I'm sorry you're hurting, Anya. For me, this was the essence (and great challenge) of the breakup: that I would have to accept what I did not fully understand. That is so difficult. But breakups fundamentally shatter the relationship and its dynamics, and people react to loss in wildly different ways.

 

Eventually, you'll just let go of the questions because the answers don't matter anymore. Which is sad, but also a blessing.

 

Sending good thoughts.

 

M.

 

I realize part of my funk has to do with low b vitamins again. Risked some stupid grapes and cheese at my stat class building's snack bar. My mood drops as the vitamin levels drop, and my brain casts around for the last sad thing that happened to me, and Bob's your uncle, that's why I'm gloomy. Never mind, that I know I will be in a much better place in a few days when I've recovered more and the B vitamins absorb better again. Nope. Its gotta be x stupid life situation. gluten is evil.

 

But anyway, some of it, though I know is actually there and real and not brain chemical related. Because I did risk letting him know about the AvPD thing and all that and absolutely no response whatsoever.

 

So much of what we do is to avoid rejection. Getting it again does hurt. But I still think that it was worth at least some of the risk, because we could have been so much help to each other.

 

Oh well.

 

Guess it does not matter now.

[lindsay1990]

Perhaps they realize it's not like a life-threatening emergency and are confident you will resolve it elsewhere so there is no need to engage in contact.

 

I think the most likely scenario is the person absolutely not wanting to open the lines of communication again. They may simply not want to risk having one reply turn into an exchange. Maybe they are just so hurt that every reminder of us just triggers them and pisses them off, or brings back everything else. Perhaps they still feel very wronged in some way and may think "I can't BELIEVE his/her nerve to write me to ask something after what they did?"

 

And also some people, like myself, has no inclination to befriend previous romantic partners. Especially if the relationship or the break up was messy or nerve-racking or intense, I would just rather put them in the past. It's not like i was friend for 20 years then dating for 2 years with one of my exes so as to owe them anything. We started out as a couple and went down in flames as a couple. To me, there has never been a desire to reframe the relationship as anything else.

 

These are just some possibilities, and I guess anything else is possible. I feel that telling ourselves that "then must have never cared" is unfair to them and unfair to us, and subscribing to this rationalizations may only make it easier to cope in the short term but will ultimately only hurt US as it erodes our most basic sense of trust.

 

What happened between you wasn't fake, you were in love and then you weren't together. There is no love now. If it got messy, then any caring left is probably outweighed by the resentment and the negative memories. It might not overcome them in the person's mind when they think of you, but it definitely may prevail when faced with the decision to initiate or restart contact. And we can hardly hold it against somebody, just as we expect no one to hold against us to go NC.

 

Just as my dumper Ex had no duty to stay with me, I have no duty to respond with friendliness or even at all to his reaching out. Every man for himself, and every body has to do what they need to get over it I guess. The extra rejection is never easy to come to terms with though.

[Nubcake]

Thats the one thing I dont get either. As I said in a different thread: I dont understand how you can go from willing to die for someone to wanting absolutely nothing to do with or care about. If I abused her I would understand, but I never cursed her out or hit her etc.. I just cant accept how this could be knowing she once shared the same deep love I have for her. Like you, I would help out anyway I could and contact her if I was in her shoes not completely ignore her. Now if she wasnt civil I would warn her I don't have to deal with it, but in my case im very civil and calm when I reached out to her. Ugh just bothers me so much and hurts beyond belief.

[Minneloa]

I admire that you are able to identify the health-related aspects of your moods. That is something I need to be more aware of (I struggle with chronic depression).

 

Given that the recent contact was a strong emotional trigger for you, I would urge you not to reach out again. For whatever reason, your ex is maintaining radio silence, and it only renews your hurt each time he doesn't respond. I know it is difficult to acknowledge, but the emotional connection you had with him is gone. That doesn't mean it didn't exist, but it is now over. I'm sorry this happened. To you, to me, to everyone on this forum. You are not alone in your feelings of confusion and pain.

 

In solidarity,

 

M

[AnyaNova]

Dear Anya,

 

You know I am all about the tough love (I probably need some myself).

 

Remember before my breadcrumbs and the ensuing shenanigans I said it's better to assume the worst (in my case assume that she loved the other guy, ect)

 

In your case maybe it's better to assume he doesn't care at all. I don't know how else to help you let go. You are a very caring person and I know you would respond to Tim if the shoe was on the other foot. He is obviously not as caring and decent as you are. Still, I don't know him, but I do know you in an internet sort of way, and I know you deserve someone who treats you better.

 

But see, the way my brain works right now, him not caring at all=there is something wrong with me or I did something wrong or it is my fault somehow just for intrinsically being me.

 

So in many ways, him not caring at all is the worst case scenario. I can tell myself up the wazoo that it has nothing to do with me and isn't my fault, but right now I cannot make my mind believe it at all.

 

You are right, I do deserve someone who treats me better. I just read the thread in another section about how the OP cried during sex because he was so sweet, loving, and attentive and just another freaking nail in the coffin right now. See, right now, I can't even say for certain in the midst of my vitamin crash/event related mini-depression that I would want him back. What I can say is that right now it really hurts because I can't be in a relationship right now, I don't think. I have to break my AvPD-dar patterns. Although, it did make for quite the laugh during my therapy session. When I said that I only feel safe enough to even begin the idea of a relationship with a man, he has to have AvPD traits at the least, and he said, "That's not a very good strategy, is it?"

 

But anyway, AvPD people actually can be a very safe bet, because 9 times out of 10, when we find people we trust, we hang on to them like nobody's business, but clearly, it can backfire.

 

Anyway, I'm writing a book here. But, I think that is what the heart of this hurt right now is, the idea that it is my fault somehow, that I deserve this rejection.

[Minneloa]

What happened between you wasn't fake, you were in love and then you weren't together. There is no love now. If it got messy, then any caring left is probably outweighed by the resentment and the negative memories. It might not overcome them in the person's mind when they think of you, but it definitely may prevail when faced with the decision to initiate or restart contact. And we can hardly hold it against somebody, just as we expect no one to hold against us to go NC.

 

Boom! Quoted for Lindsay's wise and somehow consoling presentation of a hard truth.

[lindsay1990]

But see, the way my brain works right now, him not caring at all=there is something wrong with me or I did something wrong or it is my fault somehow just for intrinsically being me.

 

So in many ways, him not caring at all is the worst case scenario. I can tell myself up the wazoo that it has nothing to do with me and isn't my fault, but right now I cannot make my mind believe it at all.

 

You are right, I do deserve someone who treats me better. I just read the thread in another section about how the OP cried during sex because he was so sweet, loving, and attentive and just another freaking nail in the coffin right now. See, right now, I can't even say for certain in the midst of my vitamin crash/event related mini-depression that I would want him back. What I can say is that right now it really hurts because I can't be in a relationship right now, I don't think. I have to break my AvPD-dar patterns. Although, it did make for quite the laugh during my therapy session. When I said that I only feel safe enough to even begin the idea of a relationship with a man, he has to have AvPD traits at the least, and he said, "That's not a very good strategy, is it?"

 

But anyway, AvPD people actually can be a very safe bet, because 9 times out of 10, when we find people we trust, we hang on to them like nobody's business, but clearly, it can backfire.

 

Anyway, I'm writing a book here. But, I think that is what the heart of this hurt right now is, the idea that it is my fault somehow, that I deserve this rejection.

 

Not caring now doesn't mean he didn't care before. But as M. said, the previous connection is gone. This whole thing sucks. Btw I sent you a PM. Don't mind if can't respond, just making sure because I have no way of seeing if I sent it or not.

[AnyaNova]

Thats the one thing I dont get either. As I said in a different thread: I dont understand how you can go from willing to die for someone to wanting absolutely nothing to do with or care about. If I abused her I would understand, but I never cursed her out or hit her etc.. I just cant accept how this could be knowing she once shared the same deep love I have for her. Like you, I would help out anyway I could and contact her if I was in her shoes not completely ignore her. Now if she wasnt civil I would warn her I don't have to deal with it, but in my case im very civil and calm when I reached out to her. Ugh just bothers me so much and hurts beyond belief.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself! I completely echo that sentiment.

[Nubcake]

You're right as someone with AvPD I am very loyal to the few people who I trust and would cling/hang to someone I love forever. It is also the reason why we split or maybe because I don't know how to express my emotions well taking her for granted and being somewhat distant eroding her love. In my case I know it was my fault and caused it deserving everything. If you put effort in the relationship and tried to make things work then it isn't your fault nor do you deserve the rejection.

 

And I guess what lindsay said is right. She probably feels so wronged by me that dealing with me upsets her etc.. so she ignores.

[JoelBarish]

Anya I don't fault you for any of it. You loved him the best way you knew how. His own issues caused the break up. You can say that you have issues if your own but your issues were in favor the relationship, his were not.

 

You've respected his boundaries and left him alone except when you felt concerned for your safety and recently when you were concerned about his emotional issues.

 

I don't know what more you could have done here. You were just being yourself in this situation and all of your actions were coming from a place of love. So you tell me, what did you do wrong here? How is this your fault? I just don't see it.

[AnyaNova]

You're right as someone with AvPD I am very loyal to the few people who I trust and would cling/hang to someone I love forever. It is also the reason why we split or maybe because I don't know how to express my emotions well taking her for granted and being somewhat distant eroding her love. In my case I know it was my fault and caused it deserving everything. If you put effort in the relationship and tried to make things work then it isn't your fault nor do you deserve the rejection.

 

And I guess what lindsay said is right. She probably feels so wronged by me that dealing with me upsets her etc.. so she ignores.

 

You know, the irony is, if I knew you in real life, and you were in my age range, I would probably so have you mentally categorized as a possible partner. :-p

 

You too, huh? How long have you known? I only just found out on Sunday. To be fair, the jury is out on whether I have the full blown, I think given the pervasiveness of it and the duration that I do, but my shrink thinks that the fact that I recognized myself in the description means that I probably don't have it completely. But I can tell you I have strong enough traits of it to make life difficult.

 

But that's just it! You see? I can't help but see the dissolution of Tim and I, as anything but my own fault. And you can't see the dissolution of your relationship with your ex as anything but your fault.

 

And our exes ignoring us just completely feeds into our evaluations. They must be ignoring us because we did or more accurately, I think, in my case, "are" something wrong.

[AnyaNova]

Anya I don't fault you for any of it. You loved him the best way you knew how. His own issues caused the break up. You can say that you have issues if your own but your issues were in favor the relationship, his were not.

 

You've respected his boundaries and left him alone except when you felt concerned for your safety and recently when you were concerned about his emotional issues.

 

I don't know what more you could have done here. You were just being yourself in this situation and all of your actions were coming from a place of love. So you tell me, what did you do wrong here? How is this your fault? I just don't see it.

 

Well, I know that I do accept some of the blame. I know I got insecure when he had certain autonomic reflexive difficulties (if you get my drift). I know that I made mistakes and did stupid stuff.

 

With that said, yes, I did love him the best I knew how. I have respected his boundaries (as you said and once past the time right after) by only contacting him once when I was concerned about my safety with the creepy dude, and then the next time only when I was concerned about both of our emotional issues.

 

Logically, I can look at you and tell you that it wasn't my fault. It wasn't my fault that he was always afraid my texts and messages were going to be mad or upset when they rarely were. I had difficulties trusting at the beginning (who is surprised exactly?), but I was really reaching a place of trust and if he could have held out just a longer, I don't think those would have been an issue any more.

 

But this does not come from a place of logic. It comes from the little kid I remember myself being who received a ton of rejection for no good reason. Kids always seek reasons for things (or at least I did) and if there is no good external reason, the reason must be something internal, i.e.-yourself.

[JoelBarish]

You know, the irony is, if I knew you in real life, and you were in my age range, I would probably so have you mentally categorized as a possible partner. :-p

 

You too, huh? How long have you known? I only just found out on Sunday. To be fair, the jury is out on whether I have the full blown, I think given the pervasiveness of it and the duration that I do, but my shrink thinks that the fact that I recognized myself in the description means that I probably don't have it completely. But I can tell you I have strong enough traits of it to make life difficult.

 

But that's just it! You see? I can't help but see the dissolution of Tim and I, as anything but my own fault. And you can't see the dissolution of your relationship with your ex as anything but your fault.

 

And our exes ignoring us just completely feeds into our evaluations. They must be ignoring us because we did or more accurately, I think, in my case, "are" something wrong.

 

Anya,

 

I told you in pm that I wonder if I have that disorder or at least some of the characteristics.

 

I too "love forever". That is why I can never be friends with exes; my feelings never go away and neither does the pain or feelings of having been rejected. I don't know if you ever saw my first post here but I was so convinced my ex thought horrible things about me and I blamed myself completely. Obviously from some of the recent events Ive told you about, she doesn't think of me as a stalker. But that's just my natural inclination to worry too much and be hard on myself.

 

And you know that I continue to have contact with her. I could justify my behavior and say "I love forever, I cling, it's part of my disorder". But that isn't entirely true. I am not a victim and I do have control of my behavior. I choose to give in to my desire for intimacy with my ex. I don't just throw up my hands and say I am powerless.

 

I don't mean to be harsh. You know that I want you to be happy. I don't fault you for your break up, for your reaction to it or for being human.

[AnyaNova]

Anya,

 

I told you in pm that I wonder if I have that disorder or at least some of the characteristics.

 

I too "love forever". That is why I can never be friends with exes; my feelings never go away and neither does the pain or feelings of having been rejected. I don't know if you ever saw my first post here but I was so convinced my ex thought horrible things about me and I blamed myself completely. Obviously from some of the recent events Ive told you about, she doesn't think of me as a stalker. But that's just my natural inclination to worry too much and be hard on myself.

 

And you know that I continue to have contact with her. I could justify my behavior and say "I love forever, I cling, it's part of my disorder". But that isn't entirely true. I am not a victim and I do have control of my behavior. I choose to give in to my desire for intimacy with my ex. I don't just throw up my hands and say I am powerless.

 

I don't mean to be harsh. You know that I want you to be happy. I don't fault you for your break up, for your reaction to it or for being human.

 

You are right, the wording was bad there. Perhaps, "tendency" would have been better rather than, "can't help but." Remember too that I am getting help for this. I am not allowing myself to be a victim to it.

 

I suspect that my tendency to word it that way, probably reflects that I may have more severe traits (at the least) than you. The fact that I saw it as natural that it could not be any other way and indicated so with my unconscious speech. But, that doesn't make you any less right.

[Nubcake]

You know, the irony is, if I knew you in real life, and you were in my age range, I would probably so have you mentally categorized as a possible partner. :-p

 

 

Lol I do fall into your AvPD criteria.

 

You too, huh? How long have you known? I only just found out on Sunday. To be fair, the jury is out on whether I have the full blown, I think given the pervasiveness of it and the duration that I do, but my shrink thinks that the fact that I recognized myself in the description means that I probably don't have it completely. But I can tell you I have strong enough traits of it to make life difficult.

 

I known I been having it for a long time. I was emotionally abused by my mom as a child always yelled at with and without reason never able to do anything right. I understand she was a single mom of 2 working her butt off for us, but her anger being taken out on me did its damage. I would pinpoint 7th maybe 8th grade it fully took place. Thats when I started using video games as an escape and not hanging out with other kids. I haven't talk to a professional, but if I dont have full blown then I have many traits as well. Really has left me a defeated painful life even though I can support myself. I know this video somewhat describes me well

 

But that's just it! You see? I can't help but see the dissolution of Tim and I, as anything but my own fault. And you can't see the dissolution of your relationship with your ex as anything but your fault.

 

Well in my case I know it was my fault. She tried to make things work when she loved me and did things to prove it when she thought she lost me because of me being distant even though I really do love her with all my heart. I didn't actively try to make things work like she did I was selfish in how I acted not fully committing my all but instead giving into my fears associated with AvPD. I haven't read all of your situation, but I assume you tried to make things work like my ex did to me. If so then you are not at fault at all you did all you could do.

 

And our exes ignoring us just completely feeds into our evaluations. They must be ignoring us because we did or more accurately, I think, in my case, "are" something wrong.

 

I believe your evaluation is wrong and you really shouldn't think its your fault if my assumption is correct about you. In my case it feeds into my confirmations. I know what I did wrong in my relationship and what I should have done. I wanted to have it both ways, loving relationship with her and obeying my AvPD which obviously wasn't and didn't work. While I was living this way fulfilled and happy, it took its toll on my ex and I dont blame her.

[Never Again]

Not caring now doesn't mean he didn't care before. But as M. said, the previous connection is gone. This whole thing sucks. Btw I sent you a PM. Don't mind if can't respond, just making sure because I have no way of seeing if I sent it or not.

 

This is the sentiment the train of thought I've had to come to accept, and is most likely the case.

 

Not only has the connection been shattered - but additional walls have been raised and portcullises lowered.

 

I've found that even the most level-headed and stable of people tend to avoid things that make them uncomfortable, confused or upset. Toss in some insecurities, the ambiguity of another person's feelings, and the emotional trauma of a breakup and...well, you've got the recipe for a really heinous stew.

 

Some folks can't help but soar when confronted with the "fight or flight" response.

 

I suppose, in my case, it's only fitting that my ex had wings tattooed on her back.

[AnyaNova]

Lol I do fall into your AvPD criteria.

 

 

 

I known I been having it for a long time. I was emotionally abused by my mom as a child always yelled at with and without reason never able to do anything right. I understand she was a single mom of 2 working her butt off for us, but her anger being taken out on me did its damage. I would pinpoint 7th maybe 8th grade it fully took place. Thats when I started using video games as an escape and not hanging out with other kids. I haven't talk to a professional, but if I dont have full blown then I have many traits as well. Really has left me a defeated painful life even though I can support myself. I know this video somewhat describes me well

 

I will give this video a watch. I am sorry. to hear how yours began. Mine started by hideous rejection from my peers. I had just moved to a new place and I'm really not sure what my sin was, because I had fit in just fine at my previous places.

 

Well in my case I know it was my fault. She tried to make things work when she loved me and did things to prove it when she thought she lost me because of me being distant even though I really do love her with all my heart. I didn't actively try to make things work like she did I was selfish in how I acted not fully committing my all but instead giving into my fears associated with AvPD. I haven't read all of your situation, but I assume you tried to make things work like my ex did to me. If so then you are not at fault at all you did all you could do.

 

On the one hand yes, I did. On the other hand, I wonder if there were ways that my own AvPD fears played into things, and may have contributed to the demise of the relationship.

 

I believe your evaluation is wrong and you really shouldn't think its your fault if my assumption is correct about you. In my case it feeds into my confirmations. I know what I did wrong in my relationship and what I should have done. I wanted to have it both ways, loving relationship with her and obeying my AvPD which obviously wasn't and didn't work. While I was living this way fulfilled and happy, it took its toll on my ex and I dont blame her.

 

I also wonder though, if you are being too hard on yourself in some ways? It would be consistent. I mean, yes, obviously for the future, try and find a way to balance and work on your own issues so that they don't interfere with a relationship, but she did contribute to it as well.

 

I realize I probably am being too hard on myself as well. I can see it intellectually.

[Nubcake]

I will give this video a watch. I am sorry. to hear how yours began. Mine started by hideous rejection from my peers. I had just moved to a new place and I'm really not sure what my sin was, because I had fit in just fine at my previous places.

 

It really is a horrible thing and I should seek help and overcome it. Heh its so bad I was anxious about returning to this thread after my last post I guess because of criticism/rejection of something more personal I don't know.

 

On the one hand yes, I did. On the other hand, I wonder if there were ways that my own AvPD fears played into things, and may have contributed to the demise of the relationship.

 

Being alone and always having my ex on my mind makes me think about the relationship start to finish. I can pinpoint exact situations so thats how I know what I contributed to the demise.

 

 

I also wonder though, if you are being too hard on yourself in some ways? It would be consistent. I mean, yes, obviously for the future, try and find a way to balance and work on your own issues so that they don't interfere with a relationship, but she did contribute to it as well.

 

Naturally I am too hard on myself, but I been forced to actually think about what went wrong, how, and why and see my errors. She wasn't perfect and contributed to a degree as well

 

I realize I probably am being too hard on myself as well. I can see it intellectually.

 

Logic and intellect isn't allowed with love

Edited November 8, 2013 by Nubcake

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

It really is a horrible thing and I should seek help and overcome it. Heh its so bad I was anxious about returning to this thread after my last post I guess because of criticism/rejection of something more personal I don't know.

 

 

Funny you should say that. I have AvPD and I can't even go back to the threads I've posted in. I have such strong avoidant patterns that I'm too insecure to see how people respond to things I've said.

 

Yup, definitely time for some CBT (and DBT for me).

 

I've seen a few people who, in the last couple weeks, made the decision to get therapy. Most for AvPD, some for BPD or whatever else.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

You too, huh? How long have you known? I only just found out on Sunday. To be fair, the jury is out on whether I have the full blown, I think given the pervasiveness of it and the duration that I do, but my shrink thinks that the fact that I recognized myself in the description means that I probably don't have it completely. But I can tell you I have strong enough traits of it to make life difficult.

 

This is common for mental health care professionals. They don't seem to have much faith that the mentally disordered can be introspective enough to figure out what's wrong.

 

As long as you are informed and can look at things critically without delusion getting in the way, I think some people can for sure diagnose themselves.

 

I've seen countless psychiatrists and psychologists and you know what? None of them fully diagnosed me. I was even misdiagnosed as schizoid. Another time misdiagnosed with Bi-Polar, 5 minutes after meeting a new doctor. I refused to take her lithium and never went back to that quack. I new I had BPD but the rest of it I learned by chance. I was researching psychopathy because of certain people in my life and gained an interest in it and other disorders.

 

I'd found the missing pieces. I'm fairly intelligent and have a talent for being critical and cynical. Once informed I had all I needed.

 

So, I guess don't put too much weight in the opinions of a mental health professional. Many of them aren't worth sh*t. A few too many narcissists who look down on their patients in those professions. My sister in-law is one of those psychologists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Heh

 

LOL and no matter who you are, they always think they are the smartest person in the room.

Edited November 8, 2013 by AShogunNamedMarcus

[Nubcake]

Funny you should say that. I have AvPD and I can't even go back to the threads I've posted in. I have such strong avoidant patterns that I'm too insecure to see how people respond to things I've said.

 

Yup, definitely time for some CBT (and DBT for me).

 

I've seen a few people who, in the last couple weeks, made the decision to get therapy. Most for AvPD, some for BPD or whatever else.

 

I also re-read what I typed like 10 times before I submit making sure it's perfect lol

[todreaminblue]

But this does not come from a place of logic. It comes from the little kid I remember myself being who received a ton of rejection for no good reason. Kids always seek reasons for things (or at least I did) and if there is no good external reason, the reason must be something internal, i.e.-yourself.

 

 

you do know this is false logic right?