I do not understand this mentality. At all.

[AnyaNova]

This is the sentiment the train of thought I've had to come to accept, and is most likely the case.

 

Not only has the connection been shattered - but additional walls have been raised and portcullises lowered.

 

I've found that even the most level-headed and stable of people tend to avoid things that make them uncomfortable, confused or upset. Toss in some insecurities, the ambiguity of another person's feelings, and the emotional trauma of a breakup and...well, you've got the recipe for a really heinous stew.

 

Some folks can't help but soar when confronted with the "fight or flight" response.

 

I suppose, in my case, it's only fitting that my ex had wings tattooed on her back.

 

And that is precisely the mentality that I cannot comprehend. :-)

[AnyaNova]

It really is a horrible thing and I should seek help and overcome it. Heh its so bad I was anxious about returning to this thread after my last post I guess because of criticism/rejection of something more personal I don't know.

 

I would say that how you came to be this way is horrible. But because it becomes such an intrinsic part of ourselves, I don't like saying that it, itself is "horrible." It just is, and is something that we would benefit from working on.

 

Being alone and always having my ex on my mind makes me think about the relationship start to finish. I can pinpoint exact situations so thats how I know what I contributed to the demise.

 

I think it might have been easier to see, too, how mine impacted, if I had known about it while in the relationship. I can look back and see how my insecurities did affect things, though.

 

 

Naturally I am too hard on myself, but I been forced to actually think about what went wrong, how, and why and see my errors. She wasn't perfect and contributed to a degree as well

 

Of course she did, she too is human. :-)

 

Logic and intellect isn't allowed with love

 

So I am discovering.

[AnyaNova]

Funny you should say that. I have AvPD and I can't even go back to the threads I've posted in. I have such strong avoidant patterns that I'm too insecure to see how people respond to things I've said.

 

Yup, definitely time for some CBT (and DBT for me).

 

I've seen a few people who, in the last couple weeks, made the decision to get therapy. Most for AvPD, some for BPD or whatever else.

 

I have difficulty with this too! And, if someone says something negative, it will stay with me and effect me for far longer than I'd ever care to admit

 

Seriously, we all should do it (get therapy). And, if we were really brave, we could like, PM each other about our progress and all, but, well. Umm.. You know. :-)

[GeorgesIsntAtHome]

I think the mind makes two mistakes every time:

 

1- we always remember the GOOD times and forget so easily why the relationship ended in the first place.. there WERE reasons, probably plenty... I remember how I felt in my last relationship, miserable, awaiting a text to confirm that she would still think of me cause she was unertain.. worse is we actually didnt even get to the point of a relationship cause she was fresh out of another one and needed time... I still dont know why life made me meet her in that period of time and that I had to suffer, but something for sure I missed the good thing at first and felt miserable, now I know that there was nothing I could have done and also remember how bad I felt when she still "cared" for me..

 

2- We give so much improtance to a person who ignores us that we forget this person probably doesnt deserve it all, after all, the relationship ended, he or she threw you away or you did, there was a reason for that ! The mind makes the mistake of giving importance to that person because we can't have him or her, but I can garantee thatt in 90% of the cases he/she would come back and you would probably feel good and relieved at first, but the past would come back to haunt you after probably a few days, if not a few hours. we wrongly believe that we NEED that person to go on but it couldnt more of a misinterpretation of how your mind works..

 

Like any human beings we cherish what we can't have, so often in my life I set myself the wrong goals, like making tons of money or having a secure job or moving to another city, well some of these things happened, and guess what, I wasnt that happy when I got there, we always put things (or people) we can't have on pedestals, and most of the time they clearly dont deserve it, well, not as much as the next person who could make you happier and love you back like YOU deserve

 

After reading a couple of comments on this thread I felt like it needed to be said, so many people seem to make that mistake, me first, and this isnt a mere consolation, it's reality! The same reality that we like to deform and make worse...

 

I also know it's easier said than done :/

Edited November 8, 2013 by GeorgesIsntAtHome

[AnyaNova]

This is common for mental health care professionals. They don't seem to have much faith that the mentally disordered can be introspective enough to figure out what's wrong.

 

As long as you are informed and can look at things critically without delusion getting in the way, I think some people can for sure diagnose themselves.

 

I've seen countless psychiatrists and psychologists and you know what? None of them fully diagnosed me. I was even misdiagnosed as schizoid. Another time misdiagnosed with Bi-Polar, 5 minutes after meeting a new doctor. I refused to take her lithium and never went back to that quack. I new I had BPD but the rest of it I learned by chance. I was researching psychopathy because of certain people in my life and gained an interest in it and other disorders.

 

I'd found the missing pieces. I'm fairly intelligent and have a talent for being critical and cynical. Once informed I had all I needed.

 

So, I guess don't put too much weight in the opinions of a mental health professional. Many of them aren't worth sh*t. A few too many narcissists who look down on their patients in those professions. My sister in-law is one of those psychologists with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Heh

 

LOL and no matter who you are, they always think they are the smartest person in the room.

 

I agree with you, thankfully,if my therapist did look down on me, especially in the intellectual domain, that would be a problem for me, but if he does, he keeps it well to himself, and I don't perceive any of it.

 

But, yes. I am sure that I do have the full blown. You have no idea how much I would love to say that maybe I don't. But I wouldn't be being honest with myself.

[AnyaNova]

I also re-read what I typed like 10 times before I submit making sure it's perfect lol

 

Imagine the fun of AvPD and ADD. You read through your posts 10 times, at least, before posting to make sure that they are perfect. And they still aren't.

 

And don't forget the funtimes when you realize that something you said could be misinterpreted, but only after you posted it, and you kick yourself for eons. Even if it never is, actually, misinterpreted.

Edited November 8, 2013 by AnyaNova

[AnyaNova]

you do know this is false logic right?

 

Absolutely. But much as I might try, knowing and feeling are two different things entirely.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Imagine the fun of AvPD and ADD. You read through your posts 10 times, at least, before posting to make sure that they are perfect. And they still aren't.

 

And don't forget the funtimes when you realize that something you said could be misinterpreted, but only after you posted it, and you kick yourself for eons. Even if it never is, actually, misinterpreted.

 

 

Yeah, I have ADD too. I sometimes don't say things correctly or I don't say them in a way I think I meant. I worry so much about someone misinterpreting what I say that I double check a lot. I don't want to have to defend myself if some a**hole wants to challenge me or try to back me in a corner for being wrong.

 

Then after I make a post, I will go over it and find things that are wrong and start hitting edit.. over and over until I stop seeing the mistakes.

[GeorgesIsntAtHome]

Thats the one thing I dont get either. As I said in a different thread: I dont understand how you can go from willing to die for someone to wanting absolutely nothing to do with or care about. If I abused her I would understand, but I never cursed her out or hit her etc.. I just cant accept how this could be knowing she once shared the same deep love I have for her. Like you, I would help out anyway I could and contact her if I was in her shoes not completely ignore her. Now if she wasnt civil I would warn her I don't have to deal with it, but in my case im very civil and calm when I reached out to her. Ugh just bothers me so much and hurts beyond belief.

 

you have no idea how I can relate to that right now...

[GeorgesIsntAtHome]

oh and Anya, I dont understand that either..... :/

 

if you ever find out, let me know!

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I don't want to have to defend myself if some a**hole wants to challenge me or try to back me in a corner for being wrong.

 

I'll add to this, it's more than just having to defend myself. I am avoiding the panic that comes when someone backs me into a corner. I react like a trapped animal. I hiss and spit and try to bite. A "you better back the f*ck up!" mentality.

 

When I panic, it stops any productive debate. Things quickly degrade into a flame war or battle of egos. Then I have to deal with the aftermath. The emotional fallout. It takes a toll and I'm way too tired of it to keep going through it over and over for the rest of my life.

 

So that's what goes on inside an AvPD person.

[Nubcake]

you have no idea how I can relate to that right now...

 

Lindsay actually shined some light on it and made me understand why

 

I think the most likely scenario is the person absolutely not wanting to open the lines of communication again. They may simply not want to risk having one reply turn into an exchange. Maybe they are just so hurt that every reminder of us just triggers them and pisses them off, or brings back everything else. Perhaps they still feel very wronged in some way and may think "I can't BELIEVE his/her nerve to write me to ask something after what they did?"

 

What happened between you wasn't fake, you were in love and then you weren't together. There is no love now. If it got messy, then any caring left is probably outweighed by the resentment and the negative memories. It might not overcome them in the person's mind when they think of you, but it definitely may prevail when faced with the decision to initiate or restart contact.

 

Everybody's situation is different, but for my specific relationship I can understand why my ex acts this way and has resentment because of said reasons Lindsay mentioned.

 

It actually gives me some peace knowing this now.

[GeorgesIsntAtHome]

Lindsay actually shined some light on it and made me understand why

 

 

 

 

 

Everybody's situation is different, but for my specific relationship I can understand why my ex acts this way and has resentment because of said reasons Lindsay mentioned.

 

It actually gives me some peace knowing this now.

 

I feel like the girl I had a crush on wanted to push me away cuase our "situation" was too tense for her and she wasnt feeling good, she associated me with negative toughts and it is destroying me from inside cause I truly felt something for her..

 

she was on the rebound from a relationship and I was nice to her on the contrary of her ex so she said she was very conmfortable with me but she wasnt ready for something serious, she changed her version often though and led me to doubt and suffer inthis.... the worse is we didnt even go out together and now she ignores me I feel like I'm nothing, worthless

 

she just cast me aside after making me feel like the most important person for her... all in a few weeks time.. 2 weeks of NC now and I try to convice myself that the good memories (we had some) will come back in her mind and she will miss me, I just cant let go and help feeling like a big pile of poo...

[Nubcake]

I feel like the girl I had a crush on wanted to push me away cuase our "situation" was too tense for her and she wasnt feeling good, she associated me with negative toughts and it is destroying me from inside cause I truly felt something for her..

 

she was on the rebound from a relationship and I was nice to her on the contrary of her ex so she said she was very conmfortable with me but she wasnt ready for something serious, she changed her version often though and led me to doubt and suffer inthis.... the worse is we didnt even go out together and now she ignores me I feel like I'm nothing, worthless

 

she just cast me aside after making me feel like the most important person for her... all in a few weeks time.. 2 weeks of NC now and I try to convice myself that the good memories (we had some) will come back in her mind and she will miss me, I just cant let go and help feeling like a big pile of poo...

 

That hurts me the most as well, the girl I love with everything only associates resentment to the thoughts of me. Im just like ****! . While you have no idea what she is thinking or how she is affected, you cant hope and cling to the thought she will come around when she thinks of the good memories if she ever does think of them. You'll just drag out the recovery period longer making it more painful. Its more safe to assume her resentment will taint the good memories not making it as pleasurable as it is to you.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

That hurts me the most as well, the girl I love with everything only associates resentment to the thoughts of me. Im just like ****! . While you have no idea what she is thinking or how she is affected, you cant hope and cling to the thought she will come around when she thinks of the good memories if she ever does think of them. You'll just drag out the recovery period longer making it more painful. Its more safe to assume her resentment will taint the good memories not making it as pleasurable as it is to you.

 

 

Same with me and my "first love". I hate to think there is resentment there. Sometimes I doubt whether or not she loved me, even though I KNOW she loved me.

 

I've thought of every possible scenario having to do with the BU. Some of them more painful than others but they are all equal. They all led up to the same outcome. I don't like thinking about it, but then again I really like thinking about it.

 

Many people here say we put our exes on a pedestal. The problem is that when I was with her, I didn't put her on a pedestal. It's 20 years later and after reflecting on all my past relationships, I see that she stood out from the rest. I caused the downfall of that relationship. She tried so hard to make it work and make me happy.

 

What do you do when you look back and see you once had the perfect GF/BF? Yes, they are some of my best memories, which just makes it all the more painful. I can't overcome the feeling of loss that is associated with those memories.

 

I avoided thinking about her for so long to keep the hurt out. Like some of the advice given on this forum, I distracted myself. I sought out new relationships and new friends. New activities. New clothes. Yeah it worked in the short term to help get over it. What about the long term when you have more experience and knowledge of the world?

 

Pushing the thoughts out of my head just left it unresolved. Every now and then they come back and it's like I'm right back where I was when I was dumped.

 

There isn't much I wouldn't give for one more conversation. Now that we are both older, it seems to make sense that a more honest conversation can take place. When neither person has any delusions of falling back in love or renewing a relationship. I don't want to give her grief or argue my side of things. I don't want to defend myself. I don't want to make anyone sad. I don't want to ruin anybody's relationship or family. I have accepted the BU, I just want to not wonder about certain details anymore.

 

Even if I could get back in contact with her... how could I ever convince her that I am not THAT guy who is pining and would try and trash her relationship? It's a never ending dilemma and I don't know if I'll ever be able to truly let it go.

Edited November 8, 2013 by AShogunNamedMarcus

[GeorgesIsntAtHome]

That hurts me the most as well, the girl I love with everything only associates resentment to the thoughts of me. Im just like ****! . While you have no idea what she is thinking or how she is affected, you cant hope and cling to the thought she will come around when she thinks of the good memories if she ever does think of them. You'll just drag out the recovery period longer making it more painful. Its more safe to assume her resentment will taint the good memories not making it as pleasurable as it is to you.

 

I know you are right, I try to convince myself of that, but I'm just so mad because my life was in check, hers was a mess, but I ended up suffering the most, I was at that point in my life, ready for something serious, and I met what I tought was the perfect person but in a f%$/# up situation that made it impossible...

 

 

I try to give it time I'm just afraid that time will make it worse cause the longer it will be the more I will think that she forgot me and I am nothing to her anymore, if it didnt already happen..

 

It takes a lot of willpower not to break NC right now and just try to convince her that I'm NOT who she saw in this messed up situation, but I have a feeling it will just make things worse...

[GeorgesIsntAtHome]

There isn't much I wouldn't give for one more conversation. Now that we are both older, it seems to make sense that a more honest conversation can take place. When neither person has any delusions of falling back in love or renewing a relationship. I don't want to give her grief or argue my side of things. I don't want to defend myself. I don't want to make anyone sad. I don't want to ruin anybody's relationship or family. I have accepted the BU, I just want to not wonder about certain details anymore.

 

Even if I could get back in contact with her... how could I ever convince her that I am not THAT guy who is pining and would try and trash her relationship? It's a never ending dilemma and I don't know if I'll ever be able to truly let it go.

 

From what you're telling us there isnt much stopping you either, 20 years is a long time, there are things you just can say in the open and dont have to think about it.. I'm pretty sure she's over everything and wond belive that 20 years later you will come back to ruin something.. you would have done it before hand... there is a way of saying "I was an idiot, I know now (not saying you are just an example) and I jsut wanted to apologize for my mistakes, that's it. hope you're happy, yadda yadda"

 

I got back in touch with many of my exes, some I talk to some I dont, some I just see once in a while.. things change with time

 

Now you gotta ask yourself, does it really matter after this time ? is this really what you want?

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Now you gotta ask yourself, does it really matter after this time ? is this really what you want?

 

 

Until I accept it fully, it seems to matter a great deal. I could do what is so popular and lie to myself that it's not important to me. Sure, it wont affect the outcome of my life, but why isn't time able to heal all wounds? Is 20 years not enough time? Really? If it's not then there really is no amount of time that will heal it.

 

This is something people say as if it is an absolute. But is it? There are always people who still tear up when they think about painful memories. For those people it never goes away. Maybe I am just one of those people.

 

Accepting also brings another type of sadness...

 

"What do you do when you look back and see you once had the perfect GF/BF?" That some people really are indeed rare and you wont find a million others just like them. When you realize you were incredibly lucky to have had what you had, that you haven't felt that ever since, and you will probably never know that again. Yes, accepting this is sad and sobering.

Edited November 8, 2013 by AShogunNamedMarcus
I had misread something so I took out the end part.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Sorry Anya, I don't mean to keep derailing your thread.

[AnyaNova]

Sorry Anya, I don't mean to keep derailing your thread.

 

Oh the fun of this. :-p

 

So, I was worried because you two were having a long many sort of conversation about the many side of things, and so much of it had already happened that I wasn't sure I was following everything, and I couldn't come up with something intelligent to say that would really be helpful.

 

Don't worry! It is okay. If someone can get some help or clarity on a thread I start, even if it is through a derailment, I am glad.

 

Though maybe you guys can help me understand something.

 

The way my AVPD works, I, as you know from my OP, always care about people that I do come to trust even if they are no longer in my life, and if they contacted me asking for help for something, for re-opening a friendship (as long as they hadn't done something horrible to me), I would totally and completely be there for them.

 

Can you help me understand why my ex, who totally has this (or at least strong traits thereof) would continue to ignore me? Why he wouldn't answer my message? Even to let me know he'd read it and couldn't for some reason? When he knows what the rejection in the refusal to even acknowledge me would do to me?

 

If you haven't read my backstory and think it would help for clarification, you can find it, here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/breaks-breaking-up/428642-what-happened-i-don-t-understand

 

I know all you typical people out there who don't have AvPD will give some answers like, the connection is gone, or whatever. That is not so much what I am looking for.

 

I guess I am trying to understand from others who have this what the mentality would be. Unless, even though I have made it clear, he is somehow still afraid of rejection from me?

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

The AvPD person creates a wall. You may have even been told by someone in school that you do this.

 

It is a wall of apathy. We don't do it because we are uncaring towards others, we do it to protect our feelings.

 

If he's AvPD, expect him to avoid situations that make him emotional. It will look like he doesn't care, and while he may not, it's probably a defense mechanism.

[AnyaNova]

The AvPD person creates a wall. You may have even been told by someone in school that you do this.

 

It is a wall of apathy. We don't do it because we are uncaring towards others, we do it to protect our feelings.

 

If he's AvPD, expect him to avoid situations that make him emotional. It will look like he doesn't care, and while he may not, it's probably a defense mechanism.

 

I understand that wall. I understand why, what I can't understand is how he could do it with someone that he cared about (me). How he could now completely ignore me. I haven't committed any terrible sins against him. We didn't end badly or with any great conflict or anything. So why the wall?

 

My own manifestation of the AvPD, is that once I find someone that I really trust, I don't ever stop caring about them. And I tend to do my utmost to keep them in my life, if possible.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

It's a reflex. Our own built in defense system to protect the gooey center.

 

An example:

 

When the mother of my child left and moved back to her home state, I considered putting up that wall towards my daughter. I thought it might be best if I stayed out of her life and I couldn't stand the heartache. I tried to put her out of my mind and not feel anything for her.

 

It didn't work of course. I love her too much and no matter what my issues, I couldn't do that to her. It hurts every time she says goodbye after visiting but it's worth it. Now she is grown and had a baby less than 2 weeks ago. It's pretty cool. I'm like a super young grandpa.

 

 

So even if we care about someone, our natural reaction may be to put up the wall. It's not always fair to people. We may not even be aware we are doing it. I have a pattern of burying feelings and making myself believe I don't care, only because I don't want to care anymore.

[AnyaNova]

It's a reflex. Our own built in defense system to protect the gooey center.

 

An example:

 

When the mother of my child left and moved back to her home state, I considered putting up that wall towards my daughter. I thought it might be best if I stayed out of her life and I couldn't stand the heartache. I tried to put her out of my mind and not feel anything for her.

 

It didn't work of course. I love her too much and no matter what my issues, I couldn't do that to her. It hurts every time she says goodbye after visiting but it's worth it. Now she is grown and had a baby less than 2 weeks ago. It's pretty cool. I'm like a super young grandpa.

 

 

So even if we care about someone, our natural reaction may be to put up the wall. It's not always fair to people. We may not even be aware we are doing it. I have a pattern of burying feelings and making myself believe I don't care, only because I don't want to care anymore.

 

I don't know if it is because of the inherent perceived rejection from him, but I can't seem to do that. I can't seem to bury these stupid feelings, or make myself believe that I don't care, because believe me, after ignoring that and leaving me with the **** of that last meeting, I really would love to not care anymore.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I don't know if it is because of the inherent perceived rejection from him, but I can't seem to do that. I can't seem to bury these stupid feelings, or make myself believe that I don't care, because believe me, after ignoring that and leaving me with the **** of that last meeting, I really would love to not care anymore.

 

 

Of course. I know what you mean. I have feelings that won't go away. That keep entering my head and driving me crazy.

 

Even though it hurts, I'm pretty sure I want to have these feelings. Maybe on some level you really want the feelings and thoughts you have to stay with you. I have trouble letting go of things, too.

 

I think it also has to do with which side of the BU you are on. When I was dumped, I couldn't stop going over every thing. If I was the one that left, I really wanted to just put it behind me.