Big Time Trust Issues

[niceguy31]

Ok. I have heard the saying that trust issues can hurt a long distance relationship,but this takes the cake!

 

I am currently in a long distance relationship where trust issues are not just a problem....they are a common problem,and it is not me that is making it a common problem,it's her.

 

She is a girl that has gotten hurt before multiple times,how exactly she never really has shared with me much specifics,saying she just doesn't want to talk about it because it is in the past,yet she seems to have a hard time putting her faith in me for someone who says their dissapointments are in the past.

 

The problem seems to be that she is paranoid of losing me or of me becoming a cheater and cheating on her. So much so that she will at times just outright make wild and false accusations to me of being a liar or a cheater or a catfisher,and she does so with no evidence to back up any such accusations,but it's not just the accusations that bothers me,no it gets worse!

 

Anytime i'm out doing stuff like grocery shopping or whatever and am busy to where I can't text her she gets paranoid that I'm doing something wrong (again not true) especially since she can't hear from me because i'm busy.

 

Then there are times when she will just get mean over the smallest things. For example when we text each other I tend to reply quickly to her most of the time,but on occasions when I don't cause i'm in the bathroom or something,she gets upset cause I don't immediatley respond,and is like "Where the hell are you?" or "What they hell are you doing,and don't frigging lie to me".

 

We have had numerous arguements and fights,most (if not all) of which were initiated by her because she made some hurtful wild accusation,and then when I get upset because she makes the accusation,she then gets pissed off even more at me and claims i'm the one hurting her because I get upset by her accusing me of things I would never do to her.

 

Then I swear at times I think she just has mood swings. For example we almost got into it again because she just out right said "you are full of crap" to me,and was mean,but then when I said " No I'm not full of crap I promise,and you are hurting me with the things you are saying to me" she snapped right out of it and was like "I'm sorry baby" so it is just weird.

 

I was lurking here yesterday as a guest to see what this site was like and read a couple of threads and see how good the advice is here,and I'm impressed. It seems like people here know of tactics for various situations,so I am hopefull someone here will be able to help me,cause I don't really want to break up with her,cause it seems like she really loves me,and i'm concerned if I do break up with her just how badly it could hurt her,and make her depressed,and I don't want that,but I do wish for this lack of trust and mean behavior on her part to stop and I just want to know if there is anything that can be tried to get things to be better.

 

I appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

[d0nnivain]

People with trust issues can't handle LDRs.

 

I hate trust issues & didn't deal well with the BF who had them.

 

I explained that I wasn't cheating & that I didn't want to cheat but if he couldn't get it through his head that I picked him, then I was going to end the relationship. It worked for a while. When he became all paranoid again, I ended things.

 

Since there are so few upsides to an LDR, I certainly wouldn't deal with a woman who talked to me the way your GF talks to you.

[niceguy31]

People with trust issues can't handle LDRs.

 

I hate trust issues & didn't deal well with the BF who had them.

 

I explained that I wasn't cheating & that I didn't want to cheat but if he couldn't get it through his head that I picked him, then I was going to end the relationship. It worked for a while. When he became all paranoid again, I ended things.

 

Since there are so few upsides to an LDR, I certainly wouldn't deal with a woman who talked to me the way your GF talks to you.

 

Yeah I know the way she speaks to me at times is completely unacceptable,and it's upsetting. Like I said she and I have had numerous fights and she has even dumped me on more than one ocassion because of this paranoia she has.

 

She claims it is cause she loves me so much and doesn't want to lose me to another girl,and that it will destroy her if that happens. Which does make me afraid of what me ending the relationship over her lack of trust might do to her as far as how depressed it might make her,cause she has gotten depressed simply over her dumping me for stupid reasons and the way she talks scares me,and I don't know if she does it cause she is really depressed or if she is doing it to make me feel guilty and make me apologize for the arguement even though it isn't my fault.

[d0nnivain]

You are her BF, not her savior. Her behavior is causing this, not yours. You can't stay with somebody because you either feel sorry for them or you are afraid the will self harm if you leave.

[niceguy31]

You are her BF, not her savior. Her behavior is causing this, not yours. You can't stay with somebody because you either feel sorry for them or you are afraid the will self harm if you leave.

 

Very true,but I fear for blame too if she does self harm,cause I have been introduced to her sister and have only spoken to her sister on instances when my gf is too sick to talk or something of that nature,and I just get a sense that if I leave and she self harms that a member of her family will think i'm to blame for it.

[ExpatInItaly]

Ok. I have heard the saying that trust issues can hurt a long distance relationship,but this takes the cake!

 

I am currently in a long distance relationship where trust issues are not just a problem....they are a common problem,and it is not me that is making it a common problem,it's her.

 

She is a girl that has gotten hurt before multiple times,how exactly she never really has shared with me much specifics,saying she just doesn't want to talk about it because it is in the past,yet she seems to have a hard time putting her faith in me for someone who says their dissapointments are in the past.

 

The problem seems to be that she is paranoid of losing me or of me becoming a cheater and cheating on her. So much so that she will at times just outright make wild and false accusations to me of being a liar or a cheater or a catfisher,and she does so with no evidence to back up any such accusations,but it's not just the accusations that bothers me,no it gets worse!

 

Anytime i'm out doing stuff like grocery shopping or whatever and am busy to where I can't text her she gets paranoid that I'm doing something wrong (again not true) especially since she can't hear from me because i'm busy.

 

Then there are times when she will just get mean over the smallest things. For example when we text each other I tend to reply quickly to her most of the time,but on occasions when I don't cause i'm in the bathroom or something,she gets upset cause I don't immediatley respond,and is like "Where the hell are you?" or "What they hell are you doing,and don't frigging lie to me".

 

We have had numerous arguements and fights,most (if not all) of which were initiated by her because she made some hurtful wild accusation,and then when I get upset because she makes the accusation,she then gets pissed off even more at me and claims i'm the one hurting her because I get upset by her accusing me of things I would never do to her.

 

Then I swear at times I think she just has mood swings. For example we almost got into it again because she just out right said "you are full of crap" to me,and was mean,but then when I said " No I'm not full of crap I promise,and you are hurting me with the things you are saying to me" she snapped right out of it and was like "I'm sorry baby" so it is just weird.

 

I was lurking here yesterday as a guest to see what this site was like and read a couple of threads and see how good the advice is here,and I'm impressed. It seems like people here know of tactics for various situations,so I am hopefull someone here will be able to help me,cause I don't really want to break up with her,cause it seems like she really loves me,and i'm concerned if I do break up with her just how badly it could hurt her,and make her depressed,and I don't want that,but I do wish for this lack of trust and mean behavior on her part to stop and I just want to know if there is anything that can be tried to get things to be better.

 

I appreciate any help anyone has to offer.

 

 

A catfisher? Have you met this girl? It seems odd to accuse you of this if you know her offline, too.

[niceguy31]

A catfisher? Have you met this girl? It seems odd to accuse you of this if you know her offline, too.

 

No I haven't met her yet,and that is the thing that bothers me is if she does this to me online,is this what I can expect from her in the future on a more face to face basis? and if so that's why i'm here to find a way to put a stop to her mistrust in me.

[d0nnivain]

Her family cannot logically blame you for her state if you haven't even met her IRL. People are responsible for their own choices.

 

Have you considered that she dates men who are geographically unavailable as a way of hiding from RL?

[Downtown]

She is paranoid of losing me or of me becoming a cheater and cheating on her. So much so that she will at times just outright make wild and false accusations to me of being a liar or a cheater.

Niceguy, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., fear of abandonment, irrational jealousy, verbal abuse, very controlling behavior, temper tantrums, and rapid flips between praising you and devaluing you -- are some of the classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Of course, you cannot determine whether your GF's BPD traits are so severe that they meet 100% of the diagnostic guidelines for having full-blown BPD. Only professionals can make a diagnosis.

 

You nonetheless are capable of protecting yourself by learning to spot the red flags for BPD. There is nothing subtle about strong occurrences of traits such as always being "The Victim," verbal abuse, and temper tantrums.

Then there are times when she will just get mean over the smallest things.

If she has strong BPD traits, this abusive behavior is to be expected. BPDers carry enormous anger and shame inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some trivial thing that TRIGGERS the anger that is always there right under the skin. This is why, in BPDer relationships, the cause of blowups is such a minor triggering event that neither party can recall what the fight was about a week later.

We have had numerous arguements and fights,most (if not all) of which were initiated by her because she made some hurtful wild accusation.

If she has strong BPD traits, she has such a great fear of abandonment that this intense fear distorts her perception of your intentions and motivations. This is why BPD is said to be a "thought distortion."

Then I swear at times I think she just has mood swings.

Perhaps so. What you are describing, however, are not mood swings because such swings typically take two weeks to develop and the new mood usually lasts for several weeks. Instead, you are describing mood "flips," a sudden mood change that occurs in less than a minute -- often in only ten seconds. Such rapid flips, as I noted above, are possible when the person is filled with anger that is easily triggered by minor comments or actions.

I just want to know if there is anything that can be tried to get things to be better.

I agree with Donnivain that you are describing a woman with issues that are impossible for you to fix. I caution that every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all of the BPD traits, albeit at a low level if the person is healthy. This is why BPD is said to be a "spectrum disorder," which means everyone has the traits to some degree. At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she has most BPD traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you are capable of spotting any red flags that exist if you take time to learn the warning signs.

 

I therefore suggest you read about BPD warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. An easy place to start is my description of them in my posts at Crazy I think but I love her anyway. If that description rings a bell, I would be glad to discuss it with you. Take care, Niceguy.

[niceguy31]

Wow Downtown that is quite a analysis and is something I never would have thought of. I will read the posts in the link you have me but I do have a question. Is depression a potential problem with this as well? My GF has previously told me a doctor did diagnose her with depression and gave her medicine for it,or could depression be a completely wrong diagnosis altogether.

[Downtown]

My GF has previously told me a doctor did diagnose her with depression and gave her medicine for it,or could depression be a completely wrong diagnosis altogether?

Niceguy, as I noted above, neither you nor I can diagnose your GF because only professionals can do that. I therefore cannot tell you whether the doctor's diagnosis was wrong or not. What I can say, however, is that a recent study (pub. 2008) found that 3/4 of BPDers also suffer from a mood disorder (that is, a clinical disorder such as bipolar, adult ADHD, major depression, or anxiety). The study found, for example, that 1/3 of BPDers suffer from major depression. Hence, her having depression does not rule out her also having a PD such as BPD.

 

Although BPD cannot be treated with medication, it typically is accompanied by at least one of those clinical disorders. This is why psychiatrists prescribe medication for BPDers -- to treat the comorbid clinical disorders. Hence, if your GF actually does have strong BPD traits, it would not be surprising that she also suffers from depression.

 

In addition to my posts in Rebel's thread, you may also want to take a look at my post at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/380507-calling-all-those-bpd-14.html#post4754080. That post identifies 12 differences I've seen between typical BPDer behavior (i.e., my BPDer exW) and bipolar behavior (i.e., my bipolar-1 foster son).

[niceguy31]

Niceguy, as I noted above, neither you nor I can diagnose your GF because only professionals can do that. I therefore cannot tell you whether the doctor's diagnosis was wrong or not. What I can say, however, is that a recent study (pub. 2008) found that 3/4 of BPDers also suffer from a mood disorder (that is, a clinical disorder such as bipolar, adult ADHD, major depression, or anxiety). The study found, for example, that 1/3 of BPDers suffer from major depression. Hence, her having depression does not rule out her also having a PD such as BPD.

 

Although BPD cannot be treated with medication, it typically is accompanied by at least one of those clinical disorders. This is why psychiatrists prescribe medication for BPDers -- to treat the comorbid clinical disorders. Hence, if your GF actually does have strong BPD traits, it would not be surprising that she also suffers from depression.

 

In addition to my posts in Rebel's thread, you may also want to take a look at my post at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/380507-calling-all-those-bpd-14.html#post4754080. That post identifies 12 differences I've seen between typical BPDer behavior (i.e., my BPDer exW) and bipolar behavior (i.e., my bipolar-1 foster son).

 

Ok Thanks Downtown. I'm following your trail of links that you leave me and others on all of this. A couple of questions/thoughts I have are.

 

1. I saw you use the terms "Split you White" and Split you Black" to someone and wonder what those mean?

 

2. I'm also deeply concerned where you mentioned to someone that abuse of drugs may be a problem because that individual said their girl abuses pain pills,and my GF has told me on occasion that she needed to take pain medicine cause she is in pain with a headache or something and I wonder if that's even true or if there are things like this I just don't know about. Keeep in mind this is a LDR.

[Downtown]

I saw you use the terms "Split you White" and Split you Black" to someone and wonder what those mean?

Splitting is a primitive defense mechanism that we all tend to use when we are under great stress or are startled. BPDers do it more frequently because they typically have an emotional development that is frozen at about age four -- leaving them fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses available to young children, including splitting.

 

I explain this black-white thinking in more detail at the first link I gave you, where I have several posts in Rebel's thread. But, essentially, splitting will be most evident in the way a BPDer categorizes everyone as "all good" and "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on some minor comment or infraction.

 

This all-or-nothing thinking may be reflected in the way your GF is triggered into instantly devaluing you as a betraying cheater -- when only moments earlier she was praising you to high heaven. Because a BPDer cannot tolerate ambiguities and dualities, she will not perceive grey areas in interpersonal relationships. Instead, she will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box. This type of thinking also would be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "you ALWAYS..." and "you NEVER...."

I'm also deeply concerned where you mentioned to someone that abuse of drugs may be a problem because that individual said their girl abuses pain pills,and my GF has told me on occasion that she needed to take pain medicine cause she is in pain.

BPDers typically lack impulse control and therefore are prone to engage in risky behaviors such as binge eating, binge spending, drug abuse, or excessive gambling. This does not imply, however, that your GF is abusing her pain pills. As I noted, I've never met her and thus cannot know whether she exhibits strong BPD traits. This is why I'm encouraging you to learn how to spot the warning signs so you can decide for yourself if there are many red flags. If so, you can then choose to end the relationship or, if you are reluctant to do that, to see a psychologist to confirm your suspicions.

[niceguy31]

Splitting is a primitive defense mechanism that we all tend to use when we are under great stress or are startled. BPDers do it more frequently because they typically have an emotional development that is frozen at about age four -- leaving them fully reliant on the primitive ego defenses available to young children, including splitting.

 

I explain this black-white thinking in more detail at the first link I gave you, where I have several posts in Rebel's thread. But, essentially, splitting will be most evident in the way a BPDer categorizes everyone as "all good" and "all bad" -- and will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other based solely on some minor comment or infraction.

 

This all-or-nothing thinking may be reflected in the way your GF is triggered into instantly devaluing you as a betraying cheater -- when only moments earlier she was praising you to high heaven. Because a BPDer cannot tolerate ambiguities and dualities, she will not perceive grey areas in interpersonal relationships. Instead, she will shoehorn everyone into a black or white box. This type of thinking also would be evident in her frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions such as "you ALWAYS..." and "you NEVER...."BPDers typically lack impulse control and therefore are prone to engage in risky behaviors such as binge eating, binge spending, drug abuse, or excessive gambling. This does not imply, however, that your GF is abusing her pain pills. As I noted, I've never met her and thus cannot know whether she exhibits strong BPD traits. This is why I'm encouraging you to learn how to spot the warning signs so you can decide for yourself if there are many red flags. If so, you can then choose to end the relationship or, if you are reluctant to do that, to see a psychologist to confirm your suspicions.

 

Well the more things you say Downtown,the more I am convinced of BPD,and I think I have come to a major realization of my situation with her.

 

As I have stated before a lot of our fights occur after she makes some wild accusation,and almost every single time (if not every time) during the fight I have found myself saying to her "Why can you not own up to the fact that YOU started this with your accusations?" which makes me feel different from another guy you gave help to,in that in a way I'm not enabling her behavior by doing that.

 

Which then creates another reason for her to get upset at me,and I see now with your last post why because she does use a "YOU ALWAYS" on me when I do this,and the statement is "You always tell me i'm wrong" or "You always blame me".

 

The only way I feel like a enabler is because I have stayed with her and not ended it,and that partially is because of her sister always reminding me of how much she loves me,and to be honest with you. I think my GF's sister,is the enabler more than anyone,because I have in the past disscussed our fights and tried to explain my position to her sister,and her sister defends her behavior and shoots me down,instead of giving the response which a normal person might give which is "I will talk with her,cause it is wrong of her to accuse you for no reason and I know it hurts and upsets you". Her sister doesn't do this,instead she defends my GF.

[Downtown]

As I have stated before a lot of our fights occur after she makes some wild accusation,and almost every single time (if not every time) during the fight I have found myself saying to her "Why can you not own up to the fact that YOU started this with your accusations?"

Niceguy, if she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), she likely is convinced those "wild accusations" are true. And, a week later when she changes the accusation 180 degrees, she likely will be just as sincere about that claim too. Because a BPDer has a fragile self image and is filled with self loathing, her subconscious mind will protect her from seeing too much of reality.

 

Her subconscious accomplishes that by projecting nearly all hurtful thoughts onto her partner (you). Because those projections occur entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously believe that the projected feelings and thoughts are originating from YOU. My BPDer exW, for example, did so much projecting that I oftentimes felt I could read her mind -- as to what she was thinking about doing -- by taking notice of what she was accusing me of thinking or doing.

 

Hence, one reason that a BPDer will not "own up to the fact that you started this" is that she usually believes -- at a conscious level -- that the outrageous accusations coming out of her mouth are true. My exW, for example, was convinced for 15 years that I was fabricating lies at least once a week.

 

Trying to reason with a BPDer, when she is "splitting you black," is pointless. The reason is that her feelings are so intense that she is absolutely convinced they MUST be true. Indeed, we all have that difficulty to a lesser extent. That is, nearly every mature adult knows -- by the time they are in high school -- that they cannot trust their own judgment when experiencing intense feeling such as infatuation or hatred.

 

Because we all know our judgment goes out the window when we have intense feelings, we try to keep our mouths shut (and our fingers off the keys) until we have time to cool down. Well, for BPDers, that distortion of judgment occurs far more frequently and more intensely -- because they have little skill at controlling their emotions.

[OnlyHonesty]

Beware, often what one accuses another of is simply projection. Now on to those tactics you mentioned. Retreat. This wouldn't even work if she lived next door to you, let alone long distance. The fact that you are still with this girl makes me wonder if you have some sort of rescuer complex or end up being a 'knight in shining armour'.

 

Continue with this and you will invite much more stress, doubt, emotional tension, frustration and wasted energy into your life.

 

It is really beyond me why so many continue pulling the rope that is tied to a piano, even if it is labelled as love. Again, it comes down to self esteem (as always).

 

You put up with this nonsense because your ego enjoys the 'love', attention and validation, your rescuer part of your personality further justifies staying with her. Override your ego, look at your self esteem and you will find the answer. If you remain with her, at some point you will look back and wish you did not, this is guaranteed.

[niceguy31]

Niceguy, if she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits), she likely is convinced those "wild accusations" are true. And, a week later when she changes the accusation 180 degrees, she likely will be just as sincere about that claim too. Because a BPDer has a fragile self image and is filled with self loathing, her subconscious mind will protect her from seeing too much of reality.

 

Her subconscious accomplishes that by projecting nearly all hurtful thoughts onto her partner (you). Because those projections occur entirely at the subconscious level, she will consciously believe that the projected feelings and thoughts are originating from YOU. My BPDer exW, for example, did so much projecting that I oftentimes felt I could read her mind -- as to what she was thinking about doing -- by taking notice of what she was accusing me of thinking or doing.

 

Hence, one reason that a BPDer will not "own up to the fact that you started this" is that she usually believes -- at a conscious level -- that the outrageous accusations coming out of her mouth are true. My exW, for example, was convinced for 15 years that I was fabricating lies at least once a week.

 

Trying to reason with a BPDer, when she is "splitting you black," is pointless. The reason is that her feelings are so intense that she is absolutely convinced they MUST be true. Indeed, we all have that difficulty to a lesser extent. That is, nearly every mature adult knows -- by the time they are in high school -- that they cannot trust their own judgment when experiencing intense feeling such as infatuation or hatred.

 

Because we all know our judgment goes out the window when we have intense feelings, we try to keep our mouths shut (and our fingers off the keys) until we have time to cool down. Well, for BPDers, that distortion of judgment occurs far more frequently and more intensely -- because they have little skill at controlling their emotions.

 

I understand this,but what I was leading up to in my last post is the crux of the problem now,and how to deal with it. Because my realization makes me suspect her sister to be the one encouraging my GF's BPD behavior the most,and defends her to no end,instead of being the one to stop and think "this is wrong what she is doing to him".

 

Which now leaves me in a very sticky corner I feel I am backed into by both of them,and I already know it will not go over well if I try to explain to my GF or her sister that there is something even more wrong with my GF than depression,and then if I just walk away from the relationship I feel like it could lead to World War III with either my GF and/or her sister with both of them possibly saying horrible things to/about me for doing so,and if it leads to my GF self harming then I could just as well be accused by her sister of pushing her to do so by walking away from her,so I feel really stuck.

[Downtown]

I feel I am backed into [a corner] by both of them,and I already know it will not go over well if I try to explain to my GF or her sister that there is something even more wrong with my GF than depression,and then if I just walk away from the relationship.

As I noted earlier, there is no grey area with a BPDer. This means that, if she has strong BPD traits, she will perceive you in only two roles: as "The Savior" (i.e., splitting you white) or as "The Perpetrator" (i.e., splitting you black). A BPDer will tolerate you playing those two roles because both of them serve to validate her false image of always being "The Victim."

 

I mention this because, after her infatuation period ends, your days of being split white (The Savior) will become increasingly rare. She therefore will increasingly perceive of you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. Importantly, this means that -- no matter WHAT you do -- you are going to be bad mouthed and demonized by both your GF and her sister (if your GF has strong BPD traits). Without several years of intensive therapy for her, that outcome is inevitable if she is a BPDer.

 

Hence, if you decide you are seeing a strong pattern of BPD red flags, you can forget about "looking good" to those two women. With BPDers, the way it works is that they put you on a pedestal for a while and then knock you off, at which time you will be demonized. Hence, with a BPDer, your efforts to avoid their saying "horrible things" about you are futile. You will be demonized regardless of whether you stay or leave. That is, continuing to look like the good guy is not an option. It is not even on the table.

[niceguy31]

As I noted earlier, there is no grey area with a BPDer. This means that, if she has strong BPD traits, she will perceive you in only two roles: as "The Savior" (i.e., splitting you white) or as "The Perpetrator" (i.e., splitting you black). A BPDer will tolerate you playing those two roles because both of them serve to validate her false image of always being "The Victim."

 

I mention this because, after her infatuation period ends, your days of being split white (The Savior) will become increasingly rare. She therefore will increasingly perceive of you as "The Perpetrator," i.e., the cause of her every misfortune. Importantly, this means that -- no matter WHAT you do -- you are going to be bad mouthed and demonized by both your GF and her sister (if your GF has strong BPD traits). Without several years of intensive therapy for her, that outcome is inevitable if she is a BPDer.

 

Hence, if you decide you are seeing a strong pattern of BPD red flags, you can forget about "looking good" to those two women. With BPDers, the way it works is that they put you on a pedestal for a while and then knock you off, at which time you will be demonized. Hence, with a BPDer, your efforts to avoid their saying "horrible things" about you are futile. You will be demonized regardless of whether you stay or leave. That is, continuing to look like the good guy is not an option. It is not even on the table.

 

Ok,thanks Downtown. I do realize what I need to do,and that this relationship is toxic. I just am stumped at the moment about what needs to be said,if BPD needs to be brought up by myself,things like that.

 

On another note. I have seen where you have mentioned that BPD usually comes with very early childhood,and is mostly due to a negative relationship with a relative,but I do want to ask,is there any chance that BPD traits can become more strong after say she has been faced with guys that have cheated on her,or done her wrong,or just left her?

[Downtown]

I just am stumped at the moment about what needs to be said,if BPD needs to be brought up by myself,things like that.

Again, if she is a BPDer, it likely doesn't matter what you say because it would be impossible to build up a store of appreciation or good will with her. That is, you cannot build up a store of good will on which to draw later when she is in a bad mood.

 

Trying to do so is as pointless as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea -- it will be washed aside by the next tide of emotions flooding through her brain. With BPDers, their reality is whatever intense feelings they are experiencing at the moment. They generally accept those feelings as "facts." This is why you cannot reason with a BPDer who is experiencing intense feelings. Further, a BPDer cannot trust you or anyone else for any extended period. This means she likely will not believe you when you try to help her.

 

As to your desire to tell her about BPD traits, doing so almost certainly will not be productive. If your suspicions are correct about her having strong BPD traits, she likely will project that frightening news right back onto you -- with the result that she will be absolutely convinced YOU are the one suffering from BPD. This is why, with high functioning BPDers, the conventional wisdom is to simply gently encourage her to see a professional (ideally, a psychologist or psychiatrist) and let him decide what to tell her.

Is there any chance that BPD traits can become more strong after say she has been faced with guys that have cheated on her,or done her wrong,or just left her?

Yes, Niceguy, all of us are affected to some extent by our experiences, even as adults. As a general rule, however, the strength of the BPD traits is believed to be determined by genetics (causing a predisposition to it) plus experiences occurring before age five.

 

Any trauma occurring at the young age of 3 or 4 may cause tremendous damage to the child's emotional core because it interrupts the child's development of an integrated self image (which otherwise would occur at that age). This is why trauma at that young age is far more damaging than traumas occurring later in life. Further, it is generally believed that, when the genetic predisposition is sufficiently strong, a child can develop BPD even in the absence of any identifiable trauma during childhood.

[niceguy31]

Again, if she is a BPDer, it likely doesn't matter what you say because it would be impossible to build up a store of appreciation or good will with her. That is, you cannot build up a store of good will on which to draw later when she is in a bad mood.

 

Trying to do so is as pointless as trying to build a lasting sandcastle beside the sea -- it will be washed aside by the next tide of emotions flooding through her brain. With BPDers, their reality is whatever intense feelings they are experiencing at the moment. They generally accept those feelings as "facts." This is why you cannot reason with a BPDer who is experiencing intense feelings. Further, a BPDer cannot trust you or anyone else for any extended period. This means she likely will not believe you when you try to help her.

 

As to your desire to tell her about BPD traits, doing so almost certainly will not be productive. If your suspicions are correct about her having strong BPD traits, she likely will project that frightening news right back onto you -- with the result that she will be absolutely convinced YOU are the one suffering from BPD. This is why, with high functioning BPDers, the conventional wisdom is to simply gently encourage her to see a professional (ideally, a psychologist or psychiatrist) and let him decide what to tell her.Yes, Niceguy, all of us are affected to some extent by our experiences, even as adults. As a general rule, however, the strength of the BPD traits is believed to be determined by genetics (causing a predisposition to it) plus experiences occurring before age five.

 

Any trauma occurring at the young age of 3 or 4 may cause tremendous damage to the child's emotional core because it interrupts the child's development of an integrated self image (which otherwise would occur at that age). This is why trauma at that young age is far more damaging than traumas occurring later in life. Further, it is generally believed that, when the genetic predisposition is sufficiently strong, a child can develop BPD even in the absence of any identifiable trauma during childhood.

 

Thanks for all the info. I really appreciate your help. I'm probably going to spend a little time reading relevant articles on BPD and relationships,cause it does sound like BPD is a strong possibility even though neither you nor I can diagnose it. I mean there have been a lot of moments where one minute she is talking to me in the sweetest way and telling me how much I mean to her,and then all of a sudden on a dime another minute she expresses doubt that she and I will ever even meet for example,which does sound to me a little bit like one of the traits of BPD you describe,that sudden flip in her outlook on things.

 

I'm just totally surprised because I had no idea until now this was even a possibility. Even when I first met her she just seemed like a normal girl who shared the same feelings I do (I have been cheated on and had my heart broken in the past too). Little did I know,I guess.

[Downtown]

I'm just totally surprised because I had no idea until now this was even a possibility. Even when I first met her she just seemed like a normal girl.

If she is a BPDer, the traits usually do not show themselves at the beginning of the relationship. Her infatuation -- which typically lasts up to six months in local relationships and can last longer in LTRs -- holds the BPDer's two great fears at bay.

 

Those fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- are not triggered as long as her infatuation convinces her that you are her perfect savior, her soul mate. When the infatuation evaporates, however, the two fears return and you will start triggering them.

[niceguy31]

If she is a BPDer, the traits usually do not show themselves at the beginning of the relationship. Her infatuation -- which typically lasts up to six months in local relationships and can last longer in LTRs -- holds the BPDer's two great fears at bay.

 

Those fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- are not triggered as long as her infatuation convinces her that you are her perfect savior, her soul mate. When the infatuation evaporates, however, the two fears return and you will start triggering them.

 

So doing simple things like leaving to go do errands I need to do and not being able to text her are simple examples of things that can trigger those fears? If so then that makes it seem like I have to walk on eggshells so to speak and not do those things,which means then I basically am not able to get anything else done I need to because of her.

[Downtown]

So doing simple things like leaving to go do errands I need to do and not being able to text her are simple examples of things that can trigger those fears?

Yes. If she has strong BPD traits, there are several reasons for her feeling a powerful need to keep in touch with you. One is the abandonment fear, which gives her an incentive to keep checking up on your whereabouts. A second reason is her lack of a cohesive, integrated self image, which makes her feel aimless and empty inside whenever she is alone (BPDers generally hate to be alone).

 

A third reason is her undeveloped sense of "object constancy." That is, she is so emotionally unstable that she cannot perceive of her loved ones as being essentially the same personalities (with the same feelings) week to week. This is why a BPDer can perceive you as loving and caring one minute and as a horrid selfish person the next moment.

If so then that makes it seem like I have to walk on eggshells so to speak and not do those things.

Yes, exactly. You must stop being yourself and acting like yourself. This is why the long-term partners of BPDers commonly complain that they can't even remember what their old selves were like -- they lose their self identity as long as they remain in the toxic relationship. And this is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to those partners) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

[niceguy31]

Yes. If she has strong BPD traits, there are several reasons for her feeling a powerful need to keep in touch with you. One is the abandonment fear, which gives her an incentive to keep checking up on your whereabouts. A second reason is her lack of a cohesive, integrated self image, which makes her feel aimless and empty inside whenever she is alone (BPDers generally hate to be alone).

 

A third reason is her undeveloped sense of "object constancy." That is, she is so emotionally unstable that she cannot perceive of her loved ones as being essentially the same personalities (with the same feelings) week to week. This is why a BPDer can perceive you as loving and caring one minute and as a horrid selfish person the next moment.Yes, exactly. You must stop being yourself and acting like yourself. This is why the long-term partners of BPDers commonly complain that they can't even remember what their old selves were like -- they lose their self identity as long as they remain in the toxic relationship. And this is why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to those partners) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.

 

I might have to check out that book,but there is something I want to run by you,sort of a idea and a thought I just had.

 

Remember in my original post I mentioned just the other day how quickly she flipped to "Splitting me black" by all of a sudden saying I am full of crap and other mean things,and that I somehow got it to stop and actually got a apology out of her simply by saying "You are hurting me with the things you are saying". I wonder if I may have all of a sudden stumbled on a "Trigger" I could use to get her to treat me right or "Split me white".

 

The reason I think this is because i'm guessing in her mind when I said that I may have triggered her fear of abandonment in a new way. Such to where she saw that she was hurting me with what she was saying and that if she didn't snap out of it that I might leave because of how hurtful she was being to me/ Do you kind of catch what I am saying?