zara Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Originally posted by Grinning Maniac By the way, this is another argument completely, but it's something to think about. Does anyone else find it really ironic that women can feel justified with this Nazi-like hatred for porn and tend to feel paranoid or personally slighted by it, yet amazingly we're not losing any sleep over the myriad of dildos, vibrators, and various bathroom fixtures that women use? Is it just me? I know that not all women have a porn shop worth of sex toys, but it's not as though we all have a fortified bunker full of hardcore in our basements either, ladies. I haven't taken a poll or anything...but I can't imagine too many guys sitting around, being insanely jealous of their girlfriend's ****ing shower head. "What? I'm not enough for her now or something? Damnit, this thing has thirteen settings and control the temperature accurate up to half a degree...I can't match up to that! That's it! Unless she stops using this thing, no more sex...ever." Actually, if i was a guy i would indeed be insulted if my gf had a collection of sex toys. Personally, as a woman, i don't like them or use them, (i usually say i don't beleive in them, to which my friends reply "It's like fairies, every time you say that, one dies!" lol!) but i think most guys like them because they feature as part of male orientated porn, therefore are part of the accepted sexual cannon so far as male eroticism is concerned. However, i have spoken to guys who do feel slighted by their women getting off with a piece of plastic rather than them... Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Bottom line: It's NOT about you. Link to post Share on other sites
sickofitall Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What if you have tried to ignore your BF's porn use but then you find out he is saving emailed ads that say things like "ebony goddess looking for white man, no strings" and things like that that don't even have a picture attached, just a link to where you can write to them? Is he planning to cheat? Link to post Share on other sites
zara Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Bottom line: a relationship is about two people. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 If my partner were to demand that I stop masturbating because it wasted our sexual energy, I would be pissed. Being the weak individual I am, I probably wouldn't break up with them, but it would create a current of anger and I would just do it and hide it. I don't like getting caught masturbating, even by my SO (when I had one). It's engrained into me. I hid it when I was 12 years old, I still have this feeling that I should be ALONE and no one can know. I can see being irritated about an addiction - but porn isn't an addiction. Addiction is about a person who lacks the coping skills to deal with reality in an appriopriate or direct way, so they seek to "numb" or distance themselves from reality by using a substance or activity in a repetitive manner to distract themselves. And don't argue with me. I was an addict for 2 years and dragged myself up from being 95 lbs, and living out of my car. I have been to rehab 3 times, and private therapy for 7 years. It takes two people to have a relationship. But that involves respecting the other person's boundaries and privacy. Unless there's something wrong with the relationship because of the use of porn, you need to try to understand that people are different. If we were all identitcal it would be a horrible, boring world, with no innovation or motivation for change. So if you don't like sex toys that's fine. I disagree, zara, with your assessment of the male attraction to toys. All men I have been with or know either dislike their partners using them, or they just don't care, as long as our sex life is maintained with a frequency that they prefer. Sometimes there is idle curiosity (woah, THIS thing looks weird. Where do you stick it?). I've gotten them as gifts from partners, carefully selected to be smaller and with less girth than said partner (haha). Sexuality is a very individual and private thing. Very complicated, and an "issue" for many, as well - a shocking amount of boys and girls are molested or go through a traumatic experience related in some way to sex or their sexuality. To enforce your personal idea of what sexuality is and how it should be expressed is not fair to the other person. I stress that - I feel this strongly, but only if there has been no change in the sex life of the couple in question. Link to post Share on other sites
zara Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I think that your definition of addiction perfectly describes the way that some men use porn. At first it is used a pleasure, rather like alcohol, but at some point the line blurs to become a necessity in order to have sexual function. And from the many threads i have read here on LS it has had a detrimental effect on many lives and relationships. I will stand by my experience of mens attraction to toys - maybe it says something about British men or maybe it is the men i know, but most of them are turned on by women's use of toys, particularly as part of intercourse. I have had to plead with guys not to buy me any such thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author revlis4891 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Now we got two subjects goin.... thanks a lot Maniac! Looks like Maniac was the only one who really responded to what I wrote, so I guess I'll wrap my subject up. I've heard a lot of people say, even Maniac, that many "women have this Nazi-like hatred for porn", or phrases similar to it. Just letting you know, that's not how I feel at all. I don't have hatred towards porn, and I'm not any of the girls posting saying that porn is the most evil thing on the planet. No, I'm not very fond of it, and I think it can destroy relationships, but thats not my situation. I don't think my boyfriend even looks at the disgusting, perverse kind very often, which would bother me.. My situation for my guy is just nudity, images like playboy, which even I read, or similar images online. It's interesting, Maniac, how you had that example with how I view masterbation, not needing a visual, to how my boyfriend sees masterbation. But, I don't think that's something that he would be bothered by, so your example doesn't really apply to me. In bed, he knows how much I love being with him and how I'll do things to make him happy. I'm definately into him. Even outside of sex, I'm always telling him how I feel about him. He does the same thing. I think that's what's gotten me through this thing - knowing that him masterbating is more a personal thing for him, and that it doesn't change how he feels towards me. I'll still stand by my way of thinking though - I don't think its imperial to have a visual of another naked chick in order to get off. I understand that boys are visual, but I don't think it would kill him to not always look to the computer for something to turn him on. Maybe that's a confidence thing for me, I don't know. But, I'm done beating this bush - I think my problem is solved, so unless anyone else has comments to help me out, it's cool to switch gears. Bottom line - being reliant on visuals of naked women DOES bother me, but that's something that I can talk out with my boyfriend. On this second topic going around... um... my boyfriend bought five vibrators for me in the time spand that we've been going out. I don't have much to say about it. :-) Obviously, my man doesn't mind them! I feel sorry for anyone dating a guy who is. Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted December 21, 2004 Share Posted December 21, 2004 Originally posted by revlis4891 My BF defended himself, saying these people aren't "real" to him, and he gets off on visuals, just like any boy. But, I don't understand why he has to get off on seeing other naked women, or streaming online video. It really upsets me. Do I have a right to be upset? ABSOLUTELY. You used the phrase "just like any boy". No doubt you want a man, not a boy, and a man desires reality because it is truth. Wanking over women who aren't real contradicts his manhood, in my opinion. This is the trouble with porn; it conditions the sexual desire to a fake realm, when we women crave that desire to be used in the world of the real. You should be his Slut as well as his Madonna (the two extremes of fantasy in the male phsyche). These "boys" really ought to grow up and start projecting all aspects of their desire into the women who love them in reality. Only then they will truly find out just how ****ing great a love relationship with a real woman can be. I would suggest that you feel upset because you know at a gut level his use of porn/masturbation is denying you his inner world - which is private undeniably - but designed to be shared when in relationship. Encourage him to man-up. Link to post Share on other sites
TylerC Posted December 24, 2004 Share Posted December 24, 2004 I'm 16 and I watch porn-doesn't bother Lauren a bit, I gave her some to watch and we have watched it together on ocassion. When I watch porn and masturbate to it, I'm thinking about doing what they're doing, except I replace the guy with me and the girl with Lauren. I'm sure Lauren is the same way, but then again, I don't know if she actually masturbates to it. Link to post Share on other sites
k8-uk Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I know this topic goes on and on, but I still feel some points are being missed. Many women fantasize or remember old partners when they masturbate, so do men. This is somehting we usually cope with ok on both sides. A lot of you guys don't seem to see the difference between fantasising and looking at other people having sex. OK, this is the difference in my mind. When I have a fantasy it's kind of dream like, like any imaginings are. The images leave me quickly afterwards and they are kind of vague (like the memories of past partners) When you have sex with a partner who has recently been looking at porn, he has distint clear images, that he has seen that will remain in his mind for some time. He can make a direct comparison between you, your body and what you do together and what he has been watching. I don't mind my overall appearance being compared to other women, but having my genitalia and the way I move the noises I make compared with other women does bother me. Of course you get compared to ex partners, but those are fading memories, not recent graphic images. And I know how a recent graphic image does linger. When I show my most private parts to my partner, I thought I was giving him something special to look at, something he couldn't get elsewhere. If that isn't the case, you guys have to be more honest about your habits from day one. Other wise you can leave a girl feeling pretty silly about feeling it was a special moment when she let you see her in ways she had been keeping private. And pleaes please don't give me that cr*p about yours being the favourite pu**y. It sounds as phoney as if a woman says you've got the nicest c*ck she's ever seen. Especially if you know she was looking at someone else's to get her off instead of waiting half an hour for you to get home. How can you ever confidently present yourself to her again? Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 @k8-uk: I'll be posting something I wrote last night (got sleepy, went to bed) in your thread in a second, but I lurk here too so what the heck... How many guys have you questioned about how they actually see porn? Taken any surveys? Run tests? Or are you just making assumptions? That's certainly the impression I'm getting. Do you want to know what happens to the images I use to masturbate after I'm "through with them"? The browser window gets closed, I go back to what I was doing, and within an hour or two I've forgotten the specifics of any of it. The FBI could bust in and demand that I give names and detailed descriptions of the last chick that I beat off to, or go to jail...and I'd be ****ed. I don't keep them in mind. Why would I? They're just pictures. I'm sorry, but I think the graphic images stay in *your* mind because porn is a sensitive issue to *you*. Guys don't really care. I'm not having porno flashbacks when I'm hanging out with my girl. Furthermore, I've never contrasted and compared my girlfriend's body to that of any porn stars. That's just stupid. Guys actually do that? That would be a new one to me. Porn chicks aren't real. Half of the girls in porn have had plastic surgery. Dig this, I remember seeing pics of this one chick who had a nice body but her face was sort of ugly. Then, in another set of pics taken later in time... SHE HAD A COMPLETELY NEW FACE. Do you think that's rare? Please. It happens all the time. If you're so intimidated by porn stars, you can easily look like one if you have the money. But I'll tell you what, if I found out you did it, I'd never date you...girls who do that have issues. I don't compare porn sex to real sex either. Why? Because porn sex ISN'T REAL. Yeah, girls who absolutely love gobbling jizz getting into ludicrous scenarios and being railed by guys who never go soft or get fatigued even after 12 ejaculations. Oh yeah...that's really accurate. Give me a break. Is anyone really making comparisons and following along with the tapes like an exercise video or something? I certainly don't try to emulate porn. I'm a little too busy ****ing to worry about the differences in technique between Ron Jeremy and myself. You ladies are eternally threatened by a bunch of cut-up, inflated, Photoshopped pin-ups? That sort of says something doesn't it? Porn girls aren't real, and we're not taking notes. You are. Guys aren't expecting to see porn girls when they drive to work in the morning. I'll be bold and say most guys wouldn't even want a porn star for a girlfriend. Why? ...Because they're porn stars! They're friggin h00res. Could your average guy really love and respect a porn star? I couldn't. So what's the threat here? Link to post Share on other sites
Author revlis4891 Posted January 2, 2005 Author Share Posted January 2, 2005 wow bucko, you're a little passionate here... but I have a suspicion that your sarcastic tone is just to raise controversy and get girls a little heated, all for the love of a good debate. My first reaction is to be defensive, but honestly I won't, cuz most of that passionate "I am a vibrant porn hater and also dispise myself" attitude doesnt completely apply to me. It's much more watered down. I don't like porn very much, and my self esteem isn't the greatest. But I'm not compairing myself to Pam Anderson or Jenna Jamison (sp?). I don't even think they are that pretty. Not my thing either. If I was a guy, I wouldn't date them. I guess something that would be relevant would be that I have sometimes thought if my bf compaired me to the girls he's seen online. I don't think he looks at the nasty, made up girls. He likes natural, no makeup, just raw naked beauty, which is what he likes in me too, so it makes me wonder. But when you said that normally guys just discard the pics and use them only for their getting-off pleasure for the moment, that made sense. Its just not how I would do it. Then again I am a girl. You did make good points, and I applaud. But I think my posts here are done, unless there's something really worth responding to. I read your post and didn't know if it was directed to me, so I thought I'd give some lines back. Link to post Share on other sites
zara Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 As a 'porn girl' or at least a sex industry worker, i.e. a girl who gets paid to provide erotic entertainment, and who guys get hard ons and jerk off over (if i've done my job right) i'd like to say that i am very real, i'm also a human being and attitudes like your are a prime example of what is wrong with men today. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 Originally posted by zara As a 'porn girl' or at least a sex industry worker, i.e. a girl who gets paid to provide erotic entertainment, and who guys get hard ons and jerk off over (if i've done my job right) i'd like to say that i am very real, i'm also a human being and attitudes like your are a prime example of what is wrong with men today. Of course you exist, that's not what was being said. The point was, your significance as a human being is reduced to nothing, if you're doing your "job right". In no way are the men you're entertaining looking at you as anything more than entertainment. In no way are they comparing you to their SO. It's not as if a guy goes on a porn site, looks at a girl, and says, "Gee, I wonder if she cries during movies as much as Amy" or "I wonder if her laugh is cuter than my girlfriend's" etc In that respect, you're not "real" to them. Link to post Share on other sites
zara Posted January 4, 2005 Share Posted January 4, 2005 They're friggin h00res. Could your average guy really love and respect a porn star? I couldn't. It's the above quote that i have a problem with. It's indicative of the whole madonna/whore complex that most men have and the reason why i keep getting dumped - and did even before i became a lapdancer. Sometimes i appear too real to my customers - that is when i have men press money into my hand and tell me "You remind me of my daughter, please stop doing this, find another job!" because the blurring of those lines are too difficult for them to process. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 zara: Ooh. Seems I've hit a nerve. Dyer already made the point I would have made so I'll be brief. You're missing another key point. You're a stripper. Not a porn star. The very nature of your job requires that your "customers" be there in person with you. Thus, there is no logical way for someone not consider you an actual person or "not real". If I'm simply looking at images on a computer screen, I won't consider that person to be "real". The thing about guys saying you look like their daughters...what does that prove? I'd be freaked out if a porn star had a strong resemblance to my girlfriend or a member of my family. What's your point? That doesn't mean she'd be anymore of a real person to me. That would just mean her face triggered a memory. And again, you're a stripper. People are watching you LIVE, not through a screen. If they were, you'd cease to be "real" to them, most likely. Finally about the quoted comment, what's the problem with it? I think most men would be uncomfortable with their girlfriend's day job being "other people banging me on film". Link to post Share on other sites
immoralist Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Do I have a right to be upset? No one needs a "right" to be upset about a partner in a relationship. The hard, emotional fact is that you, as a woman, lover and partner in a romantic relationship, do not like your bf jerking-off to pictures of other women. My advice: Ignore the attempts by LoveShack's porn boys (and some girls) to minimize your hurt and concern with their condescending "boys will be boys" and "it's only porn" jibes. These aren't arguments as much as conclusions they draw from their porn viewing, which they inflexibly apply to one and all--especially to women who are concerned that their boy friends are jacking-off to Jena instead of fu#king them. It's your relationship, not theirs. He's your bf, not theirs. These are your hurt feelings, not theirs. Ask your bf to stop jacking-off to other women. If he refuses, and this issue becomes a deal breaker, dump him and find a less porn-driven bf. Always remember, that it's your relationship and you're entitled to how you experience that relationship. Don't allow them to invalidate you and your feelings. Link to post Share on other sites
ollydolly Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Good advice Immoralist.x Link to post Share on other sites
joeyNoelle Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 I can see how it would upset you to think that your partner is thinking of other girls while he is masterbating, the thought would upset me too. I'm fine with my boyfriend looking at porn i just won't look at it with him, and i don't ever use it as a sex tool for our relations. If i look at porn it is a private thing its not about who you look at ( the actors etc) its mostly just for fun and some ideas ! Bottom line is these girls that pose for film / photos etc have very poor self esteem , and not sounding pretentous or nasty ... but i know that Iam 1000 times more beautiful and of more class, intelligence and quality than those girls. So I don't care if my boyfriend looks at them because he knows that in real life they wouldn't compare to me and lets face it having sex with them would be like dunking your genital in a pool of STDs! Get my point..... if he is having fantasies about other women that he knows.. used to date etc a) its just a fantasy b) don't ever let men feel so secure with you that they can feel free to indulge ie... its ok for u to fantasise about others and most of all make sure he knows/ feels he is lucky to be with you.... don't degrade himetc but know within yourself that you are quality and deserve whatever you ask for..... within reason. Link to post Share on other sites
joeyNoelle Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 just another thing... My boyfriend isn't addicted to porn or anything i have never seen or heard him talk about watching it. He does have magazines with bikini clad women in the bathroom and when there is nudity on certain channels and movies he watches it but I'm just assuming that he does look at it watch it from time to time because he is a guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinning Maniac Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 @immoralist: You know...some things need to be shrugged off or invalidated. I'm not saying that the *person* needs to be invalidated, mind you. If something just makes you feel bad that's perfectly fine, but the ideas that some of these women have about guys are sometimes so nutty that you just look at them and wonder what exactly runs through their heads. Case in point: The thread in Dating by Starnette(?). I believe it was called "men are dogs". Yeah...real rational these girls. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, most certainly, but when girls come on here and start *literally* bawling because they have somehow come to the conclusion that their boyfriends are really thinking about porn stars while having sex with them, have or that they secretly wish they were dating a porn star instead of them, or that looking at porn will turn them into a pervert and Satan-worshipper who loves child molestation and the taste of baby's blood.... when most likely that ISN'T the case, why not speak up? Because we can't judge? Everyone's right? I don't speak for all men or anything, but some of the "arguments" these women bring to the table are far more illogical and off the mark than any "it's just porn" remark could ever be. Having an strong feeling about something is fine, but if what's driving the feeling is a something based on no real logic and mostly misinformation, then is that something to be supported? I completely agree that a person has the right to decide what and what not to put up with in a relationship. If you are heavily against a guy beating off now and then....cool. Go find someone who never does that. I'm sure they'll be happy with you. On the other hand, some of these chicks are getting upset for the wrooonng reasons, and not only that, but in relationships that they claim are otherwise optimal. "My boyfriend is the greatest guy in the whole wide world and he does the sweetest things for me and he's great in the sack and he's my souuulllllmate...but he looks at porn once a month. Should I be worried about him dumping me for the next Asian Amatuer Queen Of T*tf*cking? omghelpplz!!!111" (Don't tell me you haven't seen that thread 50 times on LS ) One more thing... These aren't arguments as much as conclusions they draw from their porn viewing, which they inflexibly apply to one and all--especially to women who are concerned that their boy friends are jacking-off to Jena instead of fu#king them. So then, you're saying the women generally making these threads don't draw conclusions from somewhere...[their asses? Cosmo? who really knows. Plain non-communication with their partners in some cases] that they inflexibly apply to one and all? Where've you been posting, man? Personally, I dont rag on the women who have legitimate problems, such as the man never banging them but beating off 20 times a day (but that usually is a sign of *deeper* issues that aren't about porn), but when's the last time something like that has come up? Once over the summer? Somehow I'm sensing a double standard. Link to post Share on other sites
zara Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Immoralist - you make great posts! oo many people on here try to tell women that their feelings are invalid - BS! If that's the way she feels then it is true and it's right for her. Maniac - i dance and model, i am just as real in my photos as i am in the flesh. Your difficulty in comprehending that was entirely my point. And i doubt very much that i look like most people's daughters - i do however, look very young, this means that many men have teenaged daughters and this is what brings then a flash of reality. Enough. I'm done. Link to post Share on other sites
immoralist Posted January 5, 2005 Share Posted January 5, 2005 Immoralist - you make great posts! As do you, zara. As do you. Link to post Share on other sites
Qleslie Posted January 7, 2005 Share Posted January 7, 2005 I have the same problem as you do, i need help Link to post Share on other sites
FairyTail Posted January 8, 2005 Share Posted January 8, 2005 Let me start by saying I didn't read through all of the posts or anything of the like, I just saw the original post and had something to say. I completely understand where you're coming from. I started crying when I found out my boyfriend does the same thing -- it was almost exactly the same situation as you guys. But, I realized that I was feeling this way because I was feeling insecure about where I stood with my man in our relationship (and it was very complicated and whatnot, so I won't go into it). I also thought the same way: "Why do you have to look at other women?" I know you all ready had your chat with your guy, so I won't even go into why you should feel secure about it, why they do it, blah blah blah. But, I've taken a class on human sexuality, and there have been studies that have proven that men are visual and women are mental. Women go by emotion and men go by something they simply look at, and as women, we are sometimes quick to think that men are always fantasizing the same way as we do. And if they did, we know we'd be a bit hurt by it. So, you have a right to be hurt, but your man also has a right to be understood -- I know you've worked everything out alll ready, but I just wanted to let you know I've been in the same situation and you are definitely not alone. Link to post Share on other sites
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