American Women Are Considered Immoral?

[OhWonderful]

So recently, I created the goal for myself to make more friends. Yes, I actually had to make that a goal. Go ahead and laugh..... lol I'll laugh a bit. I have succeeded in starting to make friends, I think..... Though I am really not sure. I'm unsure about many things. Whether I am respected being the majority of it.

 

You see my friends cultures are very different from mine. I've found one of them attractive, but I feel as though I am not a respectable woman in their culture, so I refuse to even flirt or approach any subject along those lines. In the Philippines and Taiwan, they do not want American women, but I LOVE how much respect they give me. I love how family orientated they are and I love that they act like they are good friends to me. I'll admit, it kind of hurts that they will never consider me good enough. It's not like I want to jump right into a relationship with anyone. Who they are or what I see, (You must understand my knowledge of them is very limited, so what I assume may not be accurate.) makes me want to be a better person. Which goes AGAINST the majority of Americans dating styles. My mother would not even approve of no sex before marriage! She believes sex is a good thing to have before marriage. I don't want to jump into a relationship because I want to be respected. I don't even want to be thinking about anything except friendships, except..... I feel so damn rejected for being an American and not being innocent. It hurts my pride? I don't think I've ever felt more unattractive in my life. I spoke about American drinking and dating and they looked at me like I was crazy?

 

It doesn't help that I just read a post on here, regarding a foreign gentleman saying he was going outside the US for women, because our culture was toxic. I don't smoke, do not do drugs, do drink, and am not a virgin. Why can I not have a chance at learning someone else's culture, before I am automatically considered a bad choice? What if I wanted a chance too? I COULD follow their rules and take their culture seriously if I was given the chance. What is so wrong about American women? Do men even try expressing the needs they have for these women to fit into their culture before they give up on them?

[Eggplant]

Show them your appreciation of their culture by learning their language -- that works like a charm. Also, you don't have to apologize for being an American. I wouldn't, however, go into great detail talking to them about what you perceive to be American dating behavior. I'm an American woman, and while some people are promiscuous, my personal experience is that many Americans are not. Also, promiscuity gets shown in American television shows a lot that are broadcast around the world, but that's only fiction. That said, some parts of the U.S. have a more liberal philosophy, and it's a cultural difference, and you personally don't have to apologize or explain or defend or condemn any of it. You're just you.

[ltjg45]

It doesn't help that I just read a post on here, regarding a foreign gentleman saying he was going outside the US for women, because our culture was toxic. I don't smoke, do not do drugs, do drink, and am not a virgin. Why can I not have a chance at learning someone else's culture, before I am automatically considered a bad choice? What if I wanted a chance too? I COULD follow their rules and take their culture seriously if I was given the chance. What is so wrong about American women? Do men even try expressing the needs they have for these women to fit into their culture before they give up on them?

 

Concerning your first sentence, are you referring to me and my thread? If so, that's fine if it is.

 

As to your last question, American women typically have an opinion of me before I even say a word and they decide instantly if I am dating material to them or not. The one woman that did give me a chance didn't let her dislike for my mother to let me go at that time whereas everyone else has taken one look at me and decided that I wasn't worthy of their attention regardless of the person I truly am.

 

So, yes, I do agree that American men don't even bother voicing their opinions because it will most likely to fall on dead ears in the end and a waste of time for us. It's rare to find an American woman that isn't like that.

[soccerrprp]

Interesting topic OP. American women (and European, shoot, western...) are much more independent. Our western society has allowed women to pursue the independence that had been denied them over the centuries and still denied to millions of women in other cultures. Do men of other cultures view American or western women as immoral? Yes. But let's not forget that these same men also come from societies that subject their women to second-class citizenry. The sex trade is rampant in the far east. Some other patriarchal societies practice polygamy, accept extra-marital relationships, etc. So, for many of these men, they don't want their own wife to be "unclean", but engage in activity that is clearly double-standard.

 

I find that men who prefer women outside of American or western yearn for a woman that is submissive and subservient. They fear the competition and independence of western women partly b/c they don't want to live up to higher, more demanding standards and expectations. In the west, in the USA, the tables have been turned and insecure, pissed-off men don't like it. They prefer it when women were in more control, or when men had more control over women.

 

If you think women in these other cultures are happy where they are, you'd be surprised. These women don't know any other lifestyle or societal pressures prevent them from seeking their own desires, aspirations. Hardly liberating or a formula for happiness.

 

I love the independent, western woman! I am alive and constantly challenged by them and that is the kind of life I want. Things are progressive, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Much of the conflict in western relationships, unfortunately, revolve around materialist views of success, attraction. But that is an ingrained western-style phenomenon and a dynamic created and fostered by, you guessed it, men. Women have simply adopted it.

 

More family oriented? Women of other cultures? Well, if that is the only option they have, of course. If society tells them that that is all their good for, of course. Western women are family oriented too. To deny that is ludicrous.

Edited November 10, 2013 by soccerrprp

[OhWonderful]

Show them your appreciation of their culture by learning their language -- that works like a charm. Also, you don't have to apologize for being an American. I wouldn't, however, go into great detail talking to them about what you perceive to be American dating behavior. I'm an American woman, and while some people are promiscuous, my personal experience is that many Americans are not. Also, promiscuity gets shown in American television shows a lot that are broadcast around the world, but that's only fiction. That said, some parts of the U.S. have a more liberal philosophy, and it's a cultural difference, and you personally don't have to apologize or explain or defend or condemn any of it. You're just you.

 

Ah yes! My family just did this yesterday and shocked the gentleman. He had lived in Taiwan for three years and the two went off speaking Chinese. I have considered this, but don't want to appear creepy.

 

No apology needed though. I agree.

 

Concerning your first sentence, are you referring to me and my thread? If so, that's fine if it is.

 

As to your last question, American women typically have an opinion of me before I even say a word and they decide instantly if I am dating material to them or not. The one woman that did give me a chance didn't let her dislike for my mother to let me go at that time whereas everyone else has taken one look at me and decided that I wasn't worthy of their attention regardless of the person I truly am.

 

So, yes, I do agree that American men don't even bother voicing their opinions because it will most likely to fall on dead ears in the end and a waste of time for us. It's rare to find an American woman that isn't like that.

Yes, I was referring to your thread. It's not the first time I've heard men are going outside the US. As for women judging whether you are dating material, do you think that will not happen in another country? They will still be judging you. They may be polite, but to think you will not be judged is silly. Is it fair, that I am judged to be bad dating material in a different culture? You see, I am in your boat, except with the gender switch. Do you look at who the woman truly is? Do you ask enough questions and take the time to get to know her long enough to know that you really stand no chance? I am still spending time with my friends. I enjoy my time with them.

 

As for your ex not liking your mother and not trying to, I completely understand that. I just went through that with someone and I know that it is a deal breaker.

 

Have you considered Indonesia, specifically Bali? I think American women do better than American men. The locals love you guys.

 

I'll be fine without going out of country. Thank you though. If I go out of country, it will not be for that.

 

The thing is these cultures that you describe are patriarchies through and through. Many of the luxuries that women experience here in the US (rape laws, alimony, child support, etc) are not present in those countries.

 

There are no independent women in these cultures. In fact, family is highly valued and having separate gender roles is encouraged.

 

Personally, I'm an American male that is easily able to date women in the US. While I'm stuck here, I do so. But I do not plan on marrying a woman from our culture (and I'd prefer to move that culture, if possible) for many of the reasons you describe.

 

I support patriarchal societies. I don't want to compete with my wife to be the man. I'd imagine that you don't feel that way? (see, this is already my stereotype of you...and I'm an American man)

 

Women in the US have to be independent and yes, we value it. We are supposed to be self sufficient. The reason being, I would rather be an independent woman and be self sufficient, in case the man dumped me on the side of the street one day.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find though, that I do not agree with child support or alimony. The only reason being that, I personally can do without, and I see too many women take advantage of our system. You know the horror stories. You knock her up, she collects child support and has several other kids from different fathers, whom she also collects child support from. She never works. I've met a couple women like this. I've also met the women who take the checks, the house, the man's paychecks, his vehicles, and keep the kids. Oh and she took his mailbox at his new home.... No idea why. I don't agree with it for myself (alimony and child support), because it's been to widely abused. That's just me though.

As for a man having the lead, I was involved in this twice. In the first scenario, I'll take full responsibility. I was still too young to understand how great I had it. He took care of me, was very family orientated, was serious about marriage, and wanted me to have some independence as well. Oh and he wanted to help with college, but I never allowed that. The second scenario however, went horribly. The man could not get past his dislike for my family. My mother and my father were disrespected. I never saw my paychecks and he didn't spend it on food or rent. Even when I was paying, he looked like he was. He was in charge to a degree, but the family and not being able to buy drinks or shampoo, were the deal breakers. I had NOTHING after I paid to go to work.

 

This is another good point.

 

For men that, for one reason or another, can't get women to become attracted to them into the US, this is a good option.

 

Should they change themselves just so a woman could be attracted to them? Some will, but others like themselves. Many of the qualities that are frowned upon by US culture have a different perception elsewhere.

 

Let's be serious: as a woman dating in America, you really have your pick of the litter. You will not go dateless unless you are extremely picky. This is not so for many American men.

 

You think we do not change ourselves to fit your needs as well? As for our pick of the litter.... If men do not like us, they do not like us. It happens to us too. I personally have been told to get out of someone's home because I was too quiet and they didn't want me there anymore. I had already tried talking, but they told me to watch TV instead. Go figure, I'd get kicked out and judged for doing what I was told.

 

More family oriented? Women of other cultures? Well, if that is the only option they have, of course. If society tells them that that is all their good for, of course. Western women are family oriented too. To deny that is ludicrous.

 

It depends on the family, and while there are many women being treated poorly by their husbands, to deny that there are women who are treated great as well, and who are happy, is also ludicrous.

[HokeyReligions]

Speaking as one American woman, who protested in the 1960's against the war and for civil rights and sexual freedom, I have developed an enormous disrespect for current American culture and the lack of morals and self respect people have. In many respects my generation as a whole did a great disservice to both men and women.

 

There is nothing wrong with gender roles. There is nothing wrong with self respect and "old fashioned" morality - whether faith-based or simply being smart about safety and taking seriously the fundamental impact if sexual intercourse. Sex is not a relationship requirement or worse, a substitute for a greeting or goodnight between acquaintances.

 

I understand how other cultures look down on Americans as a whole. I work with people from all around the globe. A couple of people have talked about American youth today and how rare it is to find a "decent" American to date or develop a relationship. The would rather go to their own country or send their kids to their own country to find someone.

 

Some think of America as a big whore house. Sometimes I think the same thing.

[OhWonderful]

Speaking as one American woman, who protested in the 1960's against the war and for civil rights and sexual freedom, I have developed an enormous disrespect for current American culture and the lack of morals and self respect people have. In many respects my generation as a whole did a great disservice to both men and women.

 

There is nothing wrong with gender roles. There is nothing wrong with self respect and "old fashioned" morality - whether faith-based or simply being smart about safety and taking seriously the fundamental impact if sexual intercourse. Sex is not a relationship requirement or worse, a substitute for a greeting or goodnight between acquaintances.

 

I understand how other cultures look down on Americans as a whole. I work with people from all around the globe. A couple of people have talked about American youth today and how rare it is to find a "decent" American to date or develop a relationship. The would rather go to their own country or send their kids to their own country to find someone.

 

Some think of America as a big whore house. Sometimes I think the same thing.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you. Our nations moralities have gone haywire and while I am proud that I do not have to take abuse, I would rather be in the gender roles. Yes, sex before marriage is a huge mistake. It opens up the doors for many bad scenarios. Whether you are religious or not, it is a mistake. (Though I can't say I didn't make this mistake.) Think about the lack of respect I feel now. I personally think about how my mindset has been desensitized to the idea that sex is immoral.

 

There is another critical factor..... American women and men, have a hard time finding these roles again. For example, I have been exposed to these roles before in a positive way. I have no problem with them. However, my mother, who's opinion matters very much to me, believes I am being abused if a man has any say over anything in my life. If he has control over one paycheck, he's supposedly taking advantage of me. She believes the women should control the men and this has created a problem. You cannot abandon your family. Somehow, I believe that it is very difficult for many American's to abandon their family and friend's beliefs. It's like being ostracized for going against your culture. Surely you can't blame every American for the culture they were raised in? It's a hard change to make. The only blame you can place on them, is not making the change when they realize what is wrong with their culture.

 

Should we really not be given a chance though? Everyone is making so many generalizations!

Edited November 10, 2013 by OhWonderful

[HokeyReligions]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you. Our nations moralities have gone haywire and while I am proud that I do not have to take abuse, I would rather be in the gender roles. Yes, sex before marriage is a huge mistake. It opens up the doors for many bad scenarios. Whether you are religious or not, it is a mistake. (Though I can't say I didn't make this mistake.) Think about the lack of respect I feel now. I personally think about how my mindset has been desensitized to the idea that sex is immoral.

 

There is another critical factor..... American women and men, have a hard time finding these roles again. For example, I have been exposed to these roles before in a positive way. I have no problem with them. However, my mother, who's opinion matters very much to me, believes I am being abused if a man has any say over anything in my life. If he has control over one paycheck, he's supposedly taking advantage of me. She believes the women should control the men and this has created a problem. You cannot abandon your family. Somehow, I believe that it is very difficult for many American's to abandon their family and friend's beliefs. It's like being ostracized for going against your culture. Surely you can't blame every American for the culture they were raised in? It's a hard change to make. The only blame you can place on them, is not making the change when they realize what is wrong with their culture.

 

Should we really not be given a chance though? Everyone is making so many generalizations!

 

Its definatly a balancing act. I lived with my husband before we were married and I remember feeling so massively anxious and guilty. It took a lot if years for me to reconcile my actions and my beliefs and to define my own morals.

 

Its easy to say we believe in second chances but its darn difficult to give ourself a second chance. There is a word for it though. Epiphany. One must recognize and acknowledge a clear concise line in their life. A line that that separates Before and After.

 

I don't know how to change other cultures and nations opinions of Americans . I think it will take several generations.

[OhWonderful]

look, bud. Americans won't change their morals to suit you lol..

 

If you hate it so much there, don't live there, period.

 

You should read thoroughly. I am American and HokeyReligions is as well.

HokeyReligions, "Speaking as one American woman, who protested in the 1960's against the war and for civil rights and sexual freedom, I have developed an enormous disrespect for current American culture and the lack of morals and self respect people have. In many respects my generation as a whole did a great disservice to both men and women."

 

To get you caught up on your reading, Iloveusarita, the actual question was more along the lines of,

"Why do so many cultures not respect Americans?"

"What has happened to American values?"

"How do you gain back another cultures respect, as an American?"

"Why are so many men going to other countries to marry?"

Edited November 10, 2013 by OhWonderful

[soccerrprp]

...why are MOST men NOT going overseas to seek women? Can it be that men who have insecurities, not adept at relating to a more independent women are bailing to avoid dealing with that? Perhaps they simply don't possess the interpersonal skills and want someone "easier" to manage.

 

The American value system is not something that has changed just in the last 20-30 years. It was going through a very long, inevitable transition. Americans value greed, wealth, materialism, etc. Do you think Americans will ever change in that respect? Doubt it.

 

All of my friends married or are dating other American women, men. I don't see a crisis...yet. Then again, these friends tend to be much more confident and comfortable with themselves.

 

As per gender roles....well, ALL of the lady friends I have believe in them too. Most are pretty traditional. There's nothing wrong with gender roles as long as it is not used to control. That is the problem....it's always about control and leverage.

Edited November 10, 2013 by soccerrprp

[Eggplant]

American society has issues. But so does every other society. As TomTucker mentioned, those other societies have their own host of horrors. So when people from other cultures trash talk American women, I think they need to look in the mirror. No society has found a perfect solution.

[Eggplant]

I also want to ask whether people who make American women out to be meja-*****s have actually interacted extensively with Americans and also foreign women in other cultures on a very close level. Because from what I've seen, women from patriarchal societies are anything but push-overs, at least in private. Women from China, India, Mexico, etc ... they may appear demure in public but you don't F****** mess with them. Nobody has ever handed them any respect for free as we Americans take for granted, so they fight to the death, throwing their weight around, for the interests of themselves and their children. They tend to make many liberated American *****es seem sweet and meek.

[ZipperZapper]

...why are MOST men NOT going overseas to seek women? Can it be that men who have insecurities, not adept at relating to a more independent women are bailing to avoid dealing with that? Perhaps they simply don't possess the interpersonal skills and want someone "easier" to manage.

 

My thinking is that they're bailing out to get away from the entitled princess, "I'm-all-that-and-a-bag-of-chips-too (and you had better agree with me on that or I'll call you a misogynist)", and the arrogant 'talk to the hand' attitudes that a lot of American women seem to have developed these days when interacting with men.

 

Plus, a lot of men are tiring of the constant rejection, and being asked to meet the impossible standards and list of requirements that many women are insisting that a man must meet before they'll even consider getting involved with him. It's odd that men are being asked to be Superman by women who aren't even going to be close to being Superwoman in a million years.

 

They're also tiring of women who only see men as a meal ticket and not much more than that. They're getting tired of the hordes of single mothers who want an instant daddy for their kids and a walking bank machine too. They're tiring of women with below-average looks unrealistically insisting they're entitled to date men who look like movie stars.

 

In short, men are getting fed up with the regular diet of disrespect and belittlement they're getting, and even more tired of the favouritism women are being shown in the workplace and elsewhere, thanks to rampant feminism.

 

I for one, don't want a submissive partner. But neither do I want a woman who will constantly compete with me and try to be the one that 'wears the pants' in the relationship. Relationships are supposed to be about cooperation, not competition. It seems to me that foreign women know a lot more about the value of cooperation than American women do.

 

The American value system is not something that has changed just in the last 20-30 years. It was going through a very long, inevitable transition. Americans value greed, wealth, materialism, etc. Do you think Americans will ever change in that respect? Doubt it.

 

I agree. Does a leopard ever change its spots?

 

All of my friends married or are dating other American women, men. I don't see a crisis...yet. Then again, these friends tend to be much more confident and comfortable with themselves.

 

They won't ever see a crisis because they probably have the good looks and wealth that seem to be required in order to succeed in the dating world these days. Not all of us are lucky enough to be so blessed.

 

<snip>

[Eggplant]

I spoke about American drinking and dating and they looked at me like I was crazy?

Right here -- this is where you went wrong. In those Asian cultures, you don't talk about sensitive subjects like sex (hopefully you didn't talk about sex). That makes them very uncomfortable, as it's taboo, and it's unacceptable to talk loudly about it and give TMI opinions ... and it's one of the characteristics of the collective American personality that most clashes with these Asian cultures. In the future, please tip-toe around or avoid sensitive subjects with theses people, unless they reciprocate or start it. And be very sensitive to their reactions. They won't tell you what they feel.