How do people settle?

[Babolat]

One of my employees is in his mid 50's, had an arranged marriage (he is from India), maried 20+ years, kids and all that. And, he seems as happy as he can be.

[RedRobin]

One of my employees is in his mid 50's, had an arranged marriage (he is from India), maried 20+ years, kids and all that. And, he seems as happy as he can be.

 

I know tons of people with arranged marriages... It appears to be one of the more stableunions among the upper classes and those more well off. I agree with you... they seem quite happy.

 

I say upper classes because they have much more say in who they end up marrying. It's more like Match.com with your parents providing the options. They don't 'date' like we do. They are chosen from a pool of people who know their likes/dislikes, the families get along, similar socio-economic backgrounds.

 

Among the lower classes and the poor, it is a pretty ugly system. Especially for women. This is how alot of young women end up as child brides.

 

Anyway, it's a whole different philosophy. They believe that love grows in an atmosphere of commitment... not the other way around. I have to say that I definitely can see their point on that. There is no statistical relevance to marriages lasting longer the more you know someone in advance. It's all about what people do afterwards.

[Ruby Slippers]

Anyway, it's a whole different philosophy. They believe that love grows in an atmosphere of commitment... not the other way around. I have to say that I definitely can see their point on that.

I do, too. I have a good friend from a country where arranged marriages are the norm, and her parents are wealthy and well-known doctors. They have presented candidates to her - mostly wealthy doctors - and she's even had a first date with a few of them. She was born in the US and doesn't vibe with the premise of arranged marriages, but thought she'd give some of the guys a shot and see.

 

Her older brother and sister both had arranged marriages. Those marriages definitely seem stable - which makes sense, because they were approached as practical arrangements first, and are very traditional in how they function. Love in the Western sense isn't even a factor. It has nothing to do with "the spark". It's more about whether they can get along, live together in peace, and raise healthy children.

 

Arranged marriages are common in more religious societies that revolve around family. They're not concerned with the Western notion of individuals actualizing themselves. It's about the good of the family, and the collective society as a whole.

 

Sometimes I think we've veered too far into individualism in the West, and I include myself in that. The number of single-person households in the US, for example, is growing all the time, and people tend to be more isolated. I don't see this as a positive trend overall.

[Ruby Slippers]

Also, I saw a thread here a few months ago, in the Marriage forum, written by a man who had an arranged marriage, said his wife was a nice person but he was never "in love" with her, and seemed tortured by a crush he had developed on a woman at work.

 

Those stories are part of what stops me from giving in to a practical arrangement lacking the spark.

[xxoo]

I also know a lot of people with arranged marriages, middle and upper middle class, and I don't hold them up as superior (or inferior) to western love marriages. In my observation, it is about the same mix of miserable and content marriages. They may last, but that doesn't mean they are happy.

[TB Rhine]

I'm usually the resident cynic on these boards, but I like to think it's less about "settling" and more about growing up a bit and realizing there are more important things in life than how attractive someone is, how much money they make, how many years there are between you, etc.

 

Basically, men tend to pursue women they're physically attracted to, while women tend to get involved with men they feel powerfully drawn toward in some way. So for men, I think the answer lies in getting to know a woman a bit, and finding out whether he actually has anything substantive in common with her, before trying to make a romantic connection. I'm not suggesting a "friends first" strategy, mind, but rather that he should, for instance, actually read a girl's profile thoroughly on OLD, and only respond to girls who have that certain something, lifestyle or personality-wise, that gives him a warm fuzzy feeling, like he might actually enjoy spending time with this girl, beyond just thinking she looks good in her pics. Or, when it comes to women he meets at school, work, through mutual friends, etc., he should go for the ones he feels some connection with, or is drawn to in more than just a physical way, rather than just the cute ones who catch his eye.

 

For women, I think it's more about realizing that whatever it is that makes them feel that powerful sense of being drawn toward a man, isn't necessarily something that's working with her best interests at heart. It's a cliche, but many women are drawn to aloof men, or dangerous men, or abusive men, or men who remind them of their absentee fathers, or their abusive first boyfriend, or whatever. They need to essentially learn to evaluate a man's "date-worthiness" based on something other than their own nebulous instincts, which may be leading them to make self-destructive choices in that regard.

 

I think a lot of people view dating as a numbers game, but the problem with that philosophy is that many people have profoundly s****y criteria when it comes to who they're even willing to roll the dice with. Going out with a thousand ****ty, abusive guys isn't going to get a woman any closer to finding Mr. Right than going out with 50 of them will, and chasing after a thousand hot mamas with no regard to personality or lifestyle compatibility isn't going to help a man get any closer to figuring out whatever it is that he's actually looking for.

 

It's not about dating men you're "meh" about. It's about thinking about what you actually want in a person, what kind of person would be a good partner for you, and then looking for those qualities in the men you choose to date, even if they don't immediately give you that pitter-patter feeling in your busom that the guy with the prison record and all the swastika tattoos down at the garage does.

[TB Rhine]

Men on this forum seem to live on an alternate planet where they think any woman has it so easy that she has a que of men desperate to date her.

 

If she's remotely good-looking, she does. The problem is that, if a woman isn't interested in a man, she will "select him out," so to speak, and his overtures will be invisible to her.

 

I suspect many men feel this way because, like me, they've known women they were interested in, or even women they knew MANY men were interested in, who said the same kinds of things. I've literally listened to the cute girl at work, who I knew for a fact was *constantly* being flirted with by ten different guys - I knew this because every time I went to talk to her, another guy was walking away, and another guy would be walking up as *I* was leaving - moan on about how guys never show interest in her. What she means is that guys she *wants* never show interest.

 

Of course, this isn't helped by how indirect many men, and especially "nice guys," have become. Many of these "substandard" dudes may not ever actually get around to asking her out - instead trying to telegraph their interest in all sorts of other ways - and this, of course, makes it all the more easy for their attentions not to even register on the scale. So I'm not trying to say that men aren't part of the problem in that respect.

 

Bottom line: if you're a woman, you're not fat, and you're under 35, you've got guys expressing interest in you. That guy at the gym who always goes out of his way to be extra helpful? He's interested in you. The chubby male "friend" whose shoulder you cry on when all the other men ignore you? He's interested in you. The guy at the smoothie stand who always upgrades you to the next size up with no extra charge, and occasionally throws in a little witty banter for good measure? You get the point.

[NoMoreJerks]

If she's remotely good-looking, she does. The problem is that, if a woman isn't interested in a man, she will "select him out," so to speak, and his overtures will be invisible to her.

That's not always true, though. I am good-looking, but don't get approached a lot. I get approached every now and then, but mostly by guys looking for one night stands. But even that is pretty random and not very frequent. I've never been approached in places other than bars, though I go to different social activities and more intellectual places like bookstore cafes, etc., where more decent guys who are looking for more than just a fling, might be found. Unfortunately, that's never really panned out for me. I've only ever been asked ( i am assuming he was asking me out ) by a guy at work, whom I looked at more as a friend. I went out with him a few times, but things got busy in my life and I wasn't really feeling it a lot, and he was very very passive so I wasn't even sure if it was a date, or just friends hanging out... Anyway, the bottom line is that it's a myth that pretty women get approached frequently. Being pretty can also be a disadvantage, because you are viewed as too intimidating, etc.

 

But I agree 100% with your previous post.

[TB Rhine]

Women are far more insecure about this stuff than is warranted. 99 times out of a hundred, if a guy has gone to any lengths whatsoever to establish any kind of a relationship with you (even if just on the level of making a point to talk to you whenever he sees you in the breakroom, or whatever), it's because he's interested. Men aren't complicated in terms of their motivations, especially where women are concerned; if we're interested, we pay attention to you. If we're not, we treat you like the wallpaper. It's a sad fact, but a true one.

 

ESPECIALLY if a guy invites you to do something together outside work, in his mind it's a date. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that he sees you as g/f material, or as someone to take home to Mom; he may just be looking for a little somethin'-somethin', as the kids used to say. But either way, he's making an overture; whenever you find yourself asking, "Does he just wanna be friends?," rest assured he doesn't. There's only two types of female "friend" a straight man is interested in having, and those are the kind with either "girl-" appended to the front of the word, or "-with benefits" stuck to the back of it.

 

I set this challenge to the women on the boards; next time you're not sure how a male acquaintance feels about you, walk up and plant one on him. Then marvel at how very, very few of these men react with shock and disgust at the overture.

[NoMoreJerks]

^ well yes.. that's the trick, isn't it? To find out what a guy's intentions are.. I don't want to end up someone's FWB, while thinking I'm his gf... it's not always easy to know where the line is between the two -- some guys are especially good at giving the semblance of a relationship when in their head there is none, by blowing hot & cold so that as soon as you feel like this is actually a FWB, he blows hot hot hot, until you calm down and tell yourself you were just being paranoid. At any rate, I've always been thought of as FWB material by most men, but not gf material. Maybe because those men are not willing to date at that point, but want a hot girl who is fun to be around and isn't very demanding at the same time.. I guess it's their loss, but I've just decided that if a guy doesn't make his intentions clear (by showing, not telling me) about whether he's looking at me as gf or FWB material, I will assume we're just friends (even if he might want more, like FWB).

[RedRobin]

^ well yes.. that's the trick, isn't it? To find out what a guy's intentions are.. I don't want to end up someone's FWB, while thinking I'm his gf... it's not always easy to know where the line is between the two -- some guys are especially good at giving the semblance of a relationship when in their head there is none, by blowing hot & cold so that as soon as you feel like this is actually a FWB, he blows hot hot hot, until you calm down and tell yourself you were just being paranoid. At any rate, I've always been thought of as FWB material by most men, but not gf material. Maybe because those men are not willing to date at that point, but want a hot girl who is fun to be around and isn't very demanding at the same time.. I guess it's their loss, but I've just decided that if a guy doesn't make his intentions clear (by showing, not telling me) about whether he's looking at me as gf or FWB material, I will assume we're just friends (even if he might want more, like FWB).

 

The only way I've ever sorted out the ones you are talking about above is not to sleep with them for a good 2-3 months... and insist on STD tests before you do. In that period, you should be seeing them at least a couple times a week and talking on the phone regularly. Usually for me, it's the STD tests that weed them out. The ones who might have their own FWB on the side while they date me aren't as keen to take off work or get a needle stuck in their arm in order to make it official. *shrug* fine with me.

 

There are very few men who are going to go to that trouble if all they want is a FWB.

[TB Rhine]

You select against this by waiting for a month or two before becoming sexual (not physical, mind you, but *sexual*) with a man. I don't think any dude looking for an FWB or a quick lay is going to put in that kind of time. Give yourself a chance to get to know the guy, and give HIM a chance to show you whether his intentions are romantic, as opposed to just sexual. I tend to think a potential FWB will treat you like one of the guys right up to the point where he starts trying to wriggle you out of your undies, whereas a more romance-minded man is going to make "sweet" gestures, maybe buy you little gifts, try to impart some element of romance or sensuality to your activities together, and so on. A guy who knows how to play it cool is not going to go overboard with these overtures, but he's not going to be punching you on the arm and asking if you watched the game, either.