not everyone who smiles at you is your friend

[hayleym]

I could very well be a sociopath. I can see that clearly, I have no desire to change though.

 

And I'm not a danger to anyone.

[hayleym]

I meant what is he to you? If you can't be your "true" self with him, and only with the OM, why are you married?

 

My husband knows things about me my other man does not. I have history, and a life with him. He gives me security, acceptance (of the side he knows) and he makes me laugh, he satisfies me in lots of ways. I enjoy seeing him happy, I enjoy the things we do and experience together. I want to help him reach his dreams and goals, and he helps me achieve mine. He means a lot to me.

[skywriter]

I don't want to give personal details about my family unit but yes I've brought up open marriage to my husband more indirectly. It's not an option. Largely because that would drastically affect the image I've created of myself.

He sees me a certain way. I don't want to change that.

 

He wouldn't be game for an open marriage anyway, but even if he was. Don't think that's the direction I would go.

 

So, do you consider that, because the A is illicit and and secrective, in nature, might that add, to the excitement, hence your reason for wanting it to stay as such and not want an open marriage?

 

Also, considering that your AP is in a monogamus relationship, and this isn't going to change, so, this could cause the entire A dynamic to become quite complicated for the two of you?

[hayleym]

So, do you consider that, because the A is illicit and and secrective, in nature, might that add, to the excitement, hence your reason for wanting it to stay as such and not want an open marriage?

 

Also, considering that your AP is in a monogamus relationship, and this isn't going to change, so, this could cause the entire A dynamic to become quite complicated for the two of you?

 

Yes the secret is a huge part of the allure for both of us.

 

He's in a monogamous relationship but she knows he would rather it be open and she believes he's faithful. he does seek out other women, he just hasn't actually physically met with anyone but me in the last two years because so far their hasn't been enough desire to, I'm here when he needs. We are heavily discussing bringing in someone else though.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I thought my situation was different too - believe me we all do. My advice to you is to listen to those of us that have lived through it.

[hayleym]

I thought my situation was different too - believe me we all do. My advice to you is to listen to those of us that have lived through it.

 

I don't think the situation is all that different actually what saying is that I think this happens much more often than people think.

I think I am different than most people though. It's constantly pointed out that I am unless I admit knowing that and then people, say no no, nothing different or special..

 

But I am. It's a fact. In my opinion, not better or worse, just different.

[peaksandvalleys]

I've been reading a lot on here and other forums lately and I'm surprised how shocked people are when they discover someone they know has been in affair, or their own partner.

 

Really, I guess I must just think differently than other people. I've had people label me a lot of things after hearing my story. They don't really bother me because I'm pretty confident in my ability to keep the one life separate from the next. Most who know me wouldn't believe the things I'm capable of hiding.

 

Most wouldn't believe the things most people are capable of hiding. We all have secrets but some people obviously have more.

 

A few women here have admitted to knowing the wife of their other man. They are some how much worse than any of the other women who are placing themselves in another woman's marriage, simply because they know the wife too? Or can lie easier or what? Is it because the wife would be some how MORE hurt if she found out? What's your reasoning for it being worse?

 

Insult to injury? I've heard that one. I still don't think I'm worse than anyone else who lies. I'm just different.

 

I'm in an ongoing affair with my best friends husband.

They are more like family.

 

We want it to continue as long as possible with nobody finding out, if it gets out of control we will try to take a break but we are having fun. It's fun.. That's how I would describe it. I have no intention to hurt her or my husband, I don't want to ruin our marriages, I just want to have someone else to confide in and have sex with. That's the extent of it, he's amazing, sexy, charming and basically my other half. His wife is pretty cool to and one of the best friends I've ever had, she is great to be around, and my husband although we mix like oil and water sometimes, loves me and I love him.

 

I'm getting pretty much exactly what I want from the affair. If I had to complain it would be that I do compare my husband to the other guy to much, they have very different qualities and my husband is far from lacking, but I do find myself comparing.

Also I wish the other guy would give me more attention at certain times, but that's unrealistic in our situations and really it's just my over active need for attention than him not providing it.. Because he gives me lots of attention.

 

I could just always use more.

 

I think friends sleeping with friends husbands / wives/ girlfriends or boyfriends is probably much more common than people think.

 

In our case it's been two years of every single time his wife or my husband went out of town, and many times in between.

 

The common advice here is that every affair ends in a dday. I really really find it hard to believe that even the people giving those statements believe that?

 

Things happen every day that are never discovered.

 

I don't know if I need advice.

My relationship with my husband isn't perfect, neither is my relationship with my lover, but both are pretty great.

 

My most challenging relationship is with myself. I'm confused a lot, but I don't really feel guilty. If I knew for a fact we wouldn't ever be found out I don't think I'd feel any guilt at all actually.. Because I really do feel like they won't be hurt if they don't know. So far so good.

 

My advice to anyone else? Don't trust anyone.

 

 

I appreciate your posts. I know my WS and his OW should not have trusted me. They used me and I responded in kind. I only wished I had red it earlier than I did.

[hayleym]

I appreciate your posts. I know my WS and his OW should not have trusted me. They used me and I responded in kind. I only wished I had red it earlier than I did.

 

I really don't want to hurt anyone and I do think that more people should be aware of people like me.

 

I don't consider myself evil, but I do know what I'm doing is not acceptable to most people.

 

I'm sorry for the pain you went through.

[Sub]

I really don't want to hurt anyone and I do think that more people should be aware of people like me.

 

The best thing you can do is make your husband and the OM's wife(your "friend") aware of people like you.

[peaksandvalleys]

I really don't want to hurt anyone and I do think that more people should be aware of people like me.

 

I don't consider myself evil, but I do know what I'm doing is not acceptable to most people.

 

I'm sorry for the pain you went through.

 

 

Don't be sorry for me. You aren't the person in my situation. If you want to be sorry for anyone be sorry for my children. Their pain didn't have to happen. Be sorry for her children. Their pain didn't have to happen.

[cozycottagelg]

I don't think you are evil. Evil in my opinion is more intentional. And while I don't agree with your actions, I don't feel your intention is to hurt anyone.

 

Problem is, your intentions won't matter if people find out. Nobody will care what your intentions are.

 

Someone else put it best, everyone here reading is thinking of the BS's and the children and their reactions. I think you are so sure that you won't get caught that you haven't considered that, yet.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

I don't think people involved in these situations are evil. It goes much deeper than that.

 

What we are trying to get you to look at is the eventual fallout from this situation. It won't be pretty. And please don't be so confident as to think that you won't get caught.

 

My guess is that there are already some warning signals being sent that you are unaware of.

[whichwayisup]

How am I in any fog?

 

It's been going on completely unsuspected for two years.

 

I have no illusions that things would just be happy and carefree should anyone find out! It's almost as if people think that threat will scare me, that it will without a doubt be discovered.

 

Good. Glad you see that everybody's world will turn upside down and pain all around. If you can live with that, be okay with the fallout then all the power to you.

My comment about the fog, if you believe that you and your BF will still be friends, you're totally fooling yourself.

 

That's just not true.

 

 

We are very careful. If we get caught we know what will very likely happen, we have discussed certain scenario's and how we could communicate messages to each other in the event something happened, and we have both agreed what we will say.

You both say that now, but when push comes to shove, one, if not both of you, are gonna throw one another under the bus. It happens, so don't say it will never happen until you are face to face with your husband having to deal with his pain and devastation when you and MM are busted. Most DO throw their AP's under the bus. Openbook is right, you also don't know what he'd do if caught and facing his wife. It's out of your hands completely. Fact!!!

We do hope and work towards it not coming to that. We don't want to hurt anyone.

 

I totally understand people hating when I out right say this, but we consider the risk worth it and its calculated risk, planned out. We never just steal an opportunity, we plan it out, and make an informed choice.

It's working well. Not perfect, but it's thrilling and we are both getting a lot out of it.

 

But you ARE hurting them now, they just don't know it yet.

 

Everything is planned and calculated which actually makes it much worse because you're FULLY aware of what you're doing is going to ruin your lives, their lives and turn households upside down. Even more so if you all have kids in this potential mess of a situation!

[plethora]

If this did come out would you think less of your husband/oms wife if they tried to r?

[Stellar Wench]

I've been reading a lot on here and other forums lately and I'm surprised how shocked people are when they discover someone they know has been in affair, or their own partner.

 

Really, I guess I must just think differently than other people. I've had people label me a lot of things after hearing my story. They don't really bother me because I'm pretty confident in my ability to keep the one life separate from the next. Most who know me wouldn't believe the things I'm capable of hiding.

 

Most wouldn't believe the things most people are capable of hiding. We all have secrets but some people obviously have more.

 

A few women here have admitted to knowing the wife of their other man. They are some how much worse than any of the other women who are placing themselves in another woman's marriage, simply because they know the wife too? Or can lie easier or what? Is it because the wife would be some how MORE hurt if she found out? What's your reasoning for it being worse?

 

Insult to injury? I've heard that one. I still don't think I'm worse than anyone else who lies. I'm just different.

 

I'm in an ongoing affair with my best friends husband.

They are more like family.

 

We want it to continue as long as possible with nobody finding out, if it gets out of control we will try to take a break but we are having fun. It's fun.. That's how I would describe it. I have no intention to hurt her or my husband, I don't want to ruin our marriages, I just want to have someone else to confide in and have sex with. That's the extent of it, he's amazing, sexy, charming and basically my other half. His wife is pretty cool to and one of the best friends I've ever had, she is great to be around, and my husband although we mix like oil and water sometimes, loves me and I love him.

 

I'm getting pretty much exactly what I want from the affair. If I had to complain it would be that I do compare my husband to the other guy to much, they have very different qualities and my husband is far from lacking, but I do find myself comparing.

Also I wish the other guy would give me more attention at certain times, but that's unrealistic in our situations and really it's just my over active need for attention than him not providing it.. Because he gives me lots of attention.

 

I could just always use more.

 

I think friends sleeping with friends husbands / wives/ girlfriends or boyfriends is probably much more common than people think.

 

In our case it's been two years of every single time his wife or my husband went out of town, and many times in between.

 

The common advice here is that every affair ends in a dday. I really really find it hard to believe that even the people giving those statements believe that?

 

Things happen every day that are never discovered.

 

I don't know if I need advice.

My relationship with my husband isn't perfect, neither is my relationship with my lover, but both are pretty great.

 

My most challenging relationship is with myself. I'm confused a lot, but I don't really feel guilty. If I knew for a fact we wouldn't ever be found out I don't think I'd feel any guilt at all actually.. Because I really do feel like they won't be hurt if they don't know. So far so good.

 

My advice to anyone else? Don't trust anyone.

familiarity breeds contempt?

 

You've read this forum and others, why since you're not looking for help?

 

If this is a Public Service Announcement, perhaps the moderator of this fine site will add it as a stickie for future reference.

[MissBee]

I'm not really sure. It started really really young. I had a very emotionally, physically and sexually abusive childhood and I was removed from the situation right before I turned 13 and just created myself from then on how I wanted others to see me.

 

We never discuss my past.

 

I don't with anyone.

I reveal different parts of myself to different people depending on a lot of factors. I don't attach to many, but I attach very strongly to those I know I can read and who make me happy. I make them happy to, I give them exactly what they need to be happy because I can pick up on that so well.

 

People are very predictable.

 

The idea that "hurt people hurt people" is embodied in your situation.

 

Before you shared this, my assumption about you was that you probably have had some serious dysfunction in your upbringing. This isn't a diss or insult by the way. It's a horrible thing and not your fault whatsoever why that happened to you. You say people are predictable and they are in many ways and one predictable thing I see over and over is that certain kinds of OW who seem abnormally callous, abnormally uncaring or who defend As to the death when they share more and more of their story you see how they have come to form such views. Many of them grew up in homes where infidelity was the norm or had narcissistic parents, have a history of dating abusive men or men who cheat on them, something usually comes to light which makes sense as to how they have come to be so desensitized about it.

 

 

It is well documented as well as based on my own everyday observation that people who have been through lots of trauma, abuse, hurt, didn't grow up in a way where they could trust others tend to grow up into adults who often believe you can trust no one, so you need to get for yourself or hurt people before they hurt you, or develop ways of dealing with relationships, friendships, life that seems bizarre to other people and usually include manipulation, deceit, all kinds of things....but it's a product of the ways they've learned to deal with and make sense of unfair and horrible things which have happened to them and shaped their view of themselves, other people, the world.

 

Have you ever had counseling? It's not a magic pill, but certainly it can help you to become aware of your attitudes and feelings and ways they may be harmful to you and others around you.

[Grumpybutfun]

Hayleym:

It is obvious to me reading through this thread that everything you are doing and believing about yourself is directly tied to severe trauma such as child abuse and sexual abuse. You have no idea what healthy feels like because you are seeing things through a very distorted lens. Self awareness is only self awareness when it comes from a healthy place, therefore what you think you know is only an illusion of corrupted vantage points. You seem to think that you are getting one over on your H and the OM's wife. Yet, you are only projecting your own fears of what you are in fear of, playing out scenes or memories from your childhood in a way that a child distorts things so they can cope.

 

Believing that you feel little and that you have only a little guilt only reinforces the idea that you are in control, that you will make sure it happens to others and not to you. By disregarding your impulse control as some kind of power play, you are showing immaturity in your thought process, not in an age relevant way but in an emotional growth sort of way.

 

In short, until you deal with your child abuse and sexual abuse, you will continue to react from a miasma of emotional sickness. The ego trip that you are riding on this situation, and the other infidelities are only relevant to other people like your OM who are diseased by their own lack of mental and emotional health. I don't think you are a sociopath. I think you are a still living in your imagination, living in a fantasy world where you get to play out the sickness of your child abuse and sexual abuse as a coping mechanism for your real pain which you have once again dissociated from. You see, you don't actually get over traumas of your childhood when you grow up, you just learn more creative ways of dissociating from the pain.

 

Best,

Grumps

Edited November 12, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[hayleym]

The idea that "hurt people hurt people" is embodied in your situation.

 

Before you shared this, my assumption about you was that you probably have had some serious dysfunction in your upbringing. This isn't a diss or insult by the way. It's a horrible thing and not your fault whatsoever why that happened to you. You say people are predictable and they are in many ways and one predictable thing I see over and over is that certain kinds of OW who seem abnormally callous, abnormally uncaring or who defend As to the death when they share more and more of their story you see how they have come to form such views. Many of them grew up in homes where infidelity was the norm or had narcissistic parents, have a history of dating abusive men or men who cheat on them, something usually comes to light which makes sense as to how they have come to be so desensitized about it.

 

 

It is well documented as well as based on my own everyday observation that people who have been through lots of trauma, abuse, hurt, didn't grow up in a way where they could trust others tend to grow up into adults who often believe you can trust no one, so you need to get for yourself or hurt people before they hurt you, or develop ways of dealing with relationships, friendships, life that seems bizarre to other people and usually include manipulation, deceit, all kinds of things....but it's a product of the ways they've learned to deal with and make sense of unfair and horrible things which have happened to them and shaped their view of themselves, other people, the world.

 

Have you ever had counseling? It's not a magic pill, but certainly it can help you to become aware of your attitudes and feelings and ways they may be harmful to you and others around you.

 

Thank you but I don't want counselling, mainly because I'd only be interested in it for the whys but I don't actually want to 'fix' myself, I'm ok with how I cope.

 

I would rather this than not I guess. I'm comfortable. That sounds horrible but I just don't agree that everyone has to feel the same. If I'm not physically hurting anyone and I don't get caught. That's really how I see it.

 

I do appreciate the respect I've been given here. And I am posting because I would like to talk about it with other people and I would never with anyone I know face to face.

[hayleym]

If this did come out would you think less of your husband/oms wife if they tried to r?

 

Lost respect probably. I've never really considered that but that was my first thought when I read your question. Being brutally honest. I lose respect for naive people.

 

I have never been cheated on because I can catch a liar. I can see it coming. I'm not saying people who didn't see it coming are stupid, they are not. They are trusting. They think and do things differently than I do. It's ok, but I also don't want that to be me.

[ComingInHot]

haylem, there are too many statements for me to quote then respond to so I'll give my conclusion/s from what you've written thus far*

 

You've made more than a couple statements of how you have been a master liar starting at a very young age. You've also stated that you manipulate your relationships to make others see & believe only what you want them too and for those who question or don't buy into the lies and manipulations, you simply drop or shut out. Finally, you know full well what you are doing and hurting but you "don't care".

 

All of the above, supports my first post that humanity is missing, set aside to avoid facing the realties of your past, present & future.

I read Great pain, fear, lonliness and insecurity in everyone of your words. It's read in the need to get people to care for you through lies and manipulations because of the fear they Won't care if they knew you w/out the lies. It's read in the contradictions of "it's okay for you to lie to others but not okay for them to lie and cheat you". It's read in the recurring theme of "I don't care", because if you Did actually care, it would Hurt too much.

 

I know you Absolutely do NOT need or Want this BUT you have my pity and my heart breaks for where you are at in life. I am So Sorry for you (again, I know you don't want or need it*), but I am.

 

My prayer for you is that one day you give someone new the chance to see the Real you and care about you regardless of past, present, bad hair day, no make-up. Maybe it will help you find what's been lost in you for so long. I also hope you can one day stop manipulating yourself into believing your own lies and accept Yourself and be happy*

[MissBee]

Thank you but I don't want counselling, mainly because I'd only be interested in it for the whys but I don't actually want to 'fix' myself, I'm ok with how I cope.

 

I would rather this than not I guess. I'm comfortable. That sounds horrible but I just don't agree that everyone has to feel the same. If I'm not physically hurting anyone and I don't get caught. That's really how I see it.

 

I do appreciate the respect I've been given here. And I am posting because I would like to talk about it with other people and I would never with anyone I know face to face.

 

Well at least you're honest about it.

 

Most people also get set in their ways of coping and find it scary to do things differently.

 

My only suggestion would be that it works until it doesn't I guess and you may or may not get caught...but it would be unfortunate ( or maybe helpful, who knows?) if it is only when you do get caught and things fall apart for you that you decide to find a better way of dealing with things.

 

Physical hurt is also not the only or even worst kind of hurt there is, as you may fully have experienced, so it's a lame point to use the fact that you're not physically hurting anyone as an excuse. In any case, more so than others, you're probably also neglecting yourself.

[Sub]

Lost respect probably. I've never really considered that but that was my first thought when I read your question. Being brutally honest. I lose respect for naive people.

 

I have never been cheated on because I can catch a liar. I can see it coming. I'm not saying people who didn't see it coming are stupid, they are not. They are trusting. They think and do things differently than I do. It's ok, but I also don't want that to be me.

 

If there are kids involved, though, they have no choice but to trust you if you're their parent. This applies to anyone involved in an A, not just you. By your logic, children in similar situations are S.O.L. because people aren't to be trusted.

[hayleym]

haylem, there are too many statements for me to quote then respond to so I'll give my conclusion/s from what you've written thus far*

 

You've made more than a couple statements of how you have been a master liar starting at a very young age. You've also stated that you manipulate your relationships to make others see & believe only what you want them too and for those who question or don't buy into the lies and manipulations, you simply drop or shut out. Finally, you know full well what you are doing and hurting but you "don't care".

 

All of the above, supports my first post that humanity is missing, set aside to avoid facing the realties of your past, present & future.

I read Great pain, fear, lonliness and insecurity in everyone of your words. It's read in the need to get people to care for you through lies and manipulations because of the fear they Won't care if they knew you w/out the lies. It's read in the contradictions of "it's okay for you to lie to others but not okay for them to lie and cheat you". It's read in the recurring theme of "I don't care", because if you Did actually care, it would Hurt too much.

 

I know you Absolutely do NOT need or Want this BUT you have my pity and my heart breaks for where you are at in life. I am So Sorry for you (again, I know you don't want or need it*), but I am.

 

My prayer for you is that one day you give someone new the chance to see the Real you and care about you regardless of past, present, bad hair day, no make-up. Maybe it will help you find what's been lost in you for so long. I also hope you can one day stop manipulating yourself into believing your own lies and accept Yourself and be happy*

 

You are completely right that I think people wouldn't stay if they knew every thing about me. If I didn't change any thing, didn't alter myself a little at least. Nobody would stay. People have left continuously when they start to see glimpses. I'm sure most left for reasons completely unrelated to me but it hasn't felt that way.

 

I just want to keep the people I have now and that won't happen any other way than how it's happening right now. This is it.

 

People are shocked and appalled by stories that don't compare to mine or the secrets I've kept and my husband would never look at me the same, neither would most who know me. I'm strong and confident in their eyes and that would be completely reversed. It's not something I expect anyone else to understand.

[hayleym]

If there are kids involved, though, they have no choice but to trust you if you're their parent. This applies to anyone involved in an A, not just you. By your logic, children in similar situations are S.O.L. because people aren't to be trusted.

 

People aren't to be trusted.

Parents are definitely no exception.

[hayleym]

I do have genuine interest in how other people think. I do think sometimes I wish I could live a day in someone else's shoes too really see if there is much difference in how I would think or feel.

 

I don't stop doing things I want to do because someone else says its wrong or I shouldn't do it. If I can't do it openly, I do it quietly. I accepted that I'm a minority in our society I guess , so I submit to the point that I live my life appearing to follow all the rules. People like that. When you appear to follow all the rules.

 

That doesn't mean I really follow them. I don't even enjoy having to pretend I do but I've accepted it.

 

I think labels are so ridiculous. Including gay and straight or good and bad. People decided how others are supposed to act, and they decided labels for what's normal and what's not.

 

If I die tomorrow. I won't have regrets. I do what I want, usually that's acceptable with society, I'm not depraved, I am not crazy, I'm very controlled and high functioning.

But sometimes what I want goes against what 'most' 'good' people like. So I do that thing quietly.