not everyone who smiles at you is your friend

[Spark1111]

I have no problem hearing that even. I am not a danger to anyone, I care about people. I keep my circle small.

My other man is exactly like me. I don't think we are so different from most people if they knew they wouldn't get caught, lots would do the same if they wanted.

 

but MOST get caught and the devastation lasts for generations!

 

plus MOST would not do it, no matter who came on to them, flirted with them or they were attracted to them....

 

MOST who love their spouses, their children, their lives would NEVER risk it all for some secret, rebellious fun on the side.

 

Why are you?

 

that's the only question you need to ask yourself...

[hayleym]

You conveniently ignore suggestions to tell the truth and ignore inquiries as to what your feelings would be in a reverse situation. These behaviors scream that you are here for affirmation of a sort and you filter through the pool of opinions until you find one that you prefer. I even offered you an alternative thought process in order to be a "good guy" solution were you a sociopath and despite your stated consideration of the fact that you may be a sociopath you deigned to ignore it too.

 

There are a lot of people here giving you good advice and they are not the minority in this thread.

 

Who told me to 'tell the truth'?

I also acknowledged the sociopath comment and knew it would come up.

 

Nope. No tearful confessions with be coming from either me or him! Our arrangement is great. We've agreed what will happen the entire time and have a plan set for when it's time to end it. But we won't confess. If we were caught we also have a plan, I won't be sharing that here.

[hayleym]

haleyM....keep reading HERE and stop reading at all those, it's ok, everyone is doing it affair sites.

 

Lives are destroyed, children are damaged and BSs take years to heal whether they divorce you or not.

 

You are risking it ALL and for what exactly?

 

For acceptance, excitement, love and memories. That's what it's for. We love our lives, dont want them to change, but this helps that.. and this is now a part of it.

[Spark1111]

For acceptance, excitement, love and memories. That's what it's for. We love our lives, dont want them to change, but this helps that.. and this is now a part of it.

 

And why exactly can you not get excitement, love, acceptance and memories solely from your spouse?

[hayleym]

What are the reasons that you want this stability? High functioning sociopaths often desire stability, it is a natural indicator of a high chance for survival if you have a stable social environment. You would benefit from taking a long hard look at why you want what you do and if those reasons are altruistic or not.

 

Something a sociopath would place value in ARE the tangible results of "friendship" and as such view themselves as a valuable asset to those inside their social circle and as such a "good friend". Something an empath would place value in are loyalty and honesty, integrity when the going is tough and temptation is fierce. By your word you show plenty of the former but none of the latter.

 

That's really really interesting and I'd love to hear more. I've read so many stories like mine and all the comments accuse them of being a sociopath. Or people describing the cheating husbands acting, pretty much exactly how I act and them being narcissistic or a sociopath.

 

I love her. Would stand up for her, enjoy spending time with her, always have. For years before this started. It's been on going for almost two years. I can look her straight in the eye and listen to her and talk with her about a horrible story of someone cheating or lying, knowing I met with him the day before. I react exactly how I'm expected to react.

 

I'm not insulted by people's opinion of what that means, because I'm assures it means I'm different, but I dont really get why. I've never been caught lying.

I've never hurt anyone, and I don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I have are close. I have secrets from every single one though.

[hayleym]

but MOST get caught and the devastation lasts for generations!

 

plus MOST would not do it, no matter who came on to them, flirted with them or they were attracted to them....

 

MOST who love their spouses, their children, their lives would NEVER risk it all for some secret, rebellious fun on the side.

 

Why are you?

 

that's the only question you need to ask yourself...

 

I could die tomorrow. If I did die tomorrow, this would never come out, and I wouldn't regret doing it.

That's why I risk it.

It's a calculated risk, we are careful.

I don't think we'll get caught.

 

It's fun and its worth it to us. That's why we risk it, and why I think so many other people do the exact same thing.

 

Not trying to troll or hit triggers. I am just being brutally honest, from where I stand. I can't speak for anyone else. It's just not easy for me to understand not thinking the same. I have always always thought this way.

 

Since a little kid.

 

If I want to do something that I'm not supposed to, I just do it in a way I won't get caught. I've never been caught since I was really young, and that was only for minor lying when I was like seven maybe.

Edited November 12, 2013 by hayleym

[AutumnMoon]

I have heard the sociopath comment so many times I started to really consider it too!

 

You said you feel some guilt, but maybe are more scared of getting caught and I can relate their too.. What makes you feel guilty mostly? When do you feel that? Be it shame or guilt..

[hayleym]

I have heard the sociopath comment so many times I started to really consider it too!

 

This is my first time on this forum, but in others I've heard and seen that so often. Almost as much as them knowing because of this, there must be past abuse. And saying that somebody must suspect, because nobody is that good of an actress.

 

I am. So is he.

[hayleym]

Several times it is implied that you should tell the truth or end your marriage. You still ignore the question as to how you would feel in a reverse situation, by design I assume?

 

Oh I did realize I was avoiding anything specific I apoligize. There as been lots of responses and I've tried to reply to them but not repeat reply to the same thing.

 

I am not going to confess or "tell the truth" because, why would I? There is no reason to and no way to prove its even happened, so why would either of tell anyone? We just enjoy our moments together and don't think about it past, not getting caught, and risk management, and then enjoying the moments when we do get to be together.

[hayleym]

If the situation were reversed Id be pissed that someone was able to lie to me convincingly. That has not happened many times in my life. I would be angry I had been lied to. I would be sick about it, Id feel pain and I would cry and be angry. No doubt. But again, I think that would be more shame that I had been lied to. Id expect myself to be able to read a person better than that. Especially those closest to me. That's why they are the ones closest to me.

 

I can read my husband and her, like a book.

Edited November 12, 2013 by hayleym

[hayleym]

Your statements here are intriguing. I suspect you are different but that is merely my gut feeling based on the course of this thread.

 

Your reasons for not getting why you may be different are because you've never been caught lying and never hurt anyone? Correct me if I misunderstood.

 

The reason may be different is because an empath would place themselves in their victims shoes and imagine the pain associated with betrayal and the outrage of their situation as a cuckolded spouse with indifference to the fact of whether or not the truth is out. Do you see here? An empath can become sad by watching a movie which features a human being tortured to death merely by placing themselves in the that actors theoretical emotional shoes. You don't appear to be capable of this, my hunch. It doesn't mean much here on this forum but you get the point.

 

I get sad watching anything about someone being hurt, movies and tv shows. I feel sick about torture and I would never hurt an animal and hate the images of them in pain.

 

But get this. I am drawn to stories about that. It makes me sick and I feel what I'd describe as horror and pity,. Not in a mean way I genuinely feel horrible for those people.

But I used to obsessively read about torture, suicide and murder, anything about that kind of thing. It intrigues me, more how the people who did it were thinking, than about the victims.

 

To be clear, I have never ever physically hurt someone and would never.

 

I get turned on by the idea of ME being tortured and hurt though. Go ahead and analyze that. Not sure what it means.

 

And no I've never been caught so I've never really faced consequences to any lying I may have done. I always consider the other persons side. You put it as putting myself in their shoes.

 

I do that, but for the intent of deciding if what I want is worth it, if I can get away with it, and if I did get caught what that person would likely do, then I make the choice to go ahead, or not.

[GypsumSatellite]

Since this is not just about sex for the both of you but you don't want to leave your Ms for one another and you know he really needs his sex and so do you - are there any limits on where else he gets sex from? Say you found out your OM had several OWs.

 

Let this sink in. What would your reaction be if your OM had another lover that only needed him maybe 1x a month. But he talked to her every day through some method of communication. Or say he visited her during the week at her place whenever his W was home. How would that change your relationship with him?

 

Do you really think you could have been just anyone?

 

I ask because for him to bed a man's wife HE knows is a particular act of aggression, too. That's an amazing amount of mate poaching, there. The field of debris when that situation explodes is going to be epic.

[hayleym]

What forum would I post in to get people's opinions on a personality disorder then? I really am interested rather than offended.

[hayleym]

Since this is not just about sex for the both of you but you don't want to leave your Ms for one another and you know he really needs his sex and so do you - are there any limits on where else he gets sex from? Say you found out your OM had several OWs.

 

Let this sink in. What would your reaction be if your OM had another lover that only needed him maybe 1x a month. But he talked to her every day through some method of communication. Or say he visited her during the week at her place whenever his W was home. How would that change your relationship with him?

 

Do you really think you could have been just anyone?

 

I ask because for him to bed a man's wife HE knows is a particular act of aggression, too. That's an amazing amount of mate poaching, there. The field of debris when that situation explodes is going to be epic.

 

I've had two in the time period, not multiple times, just two one time , sex only things, and he's texted and thought about meeting with one woman actually recently for sex only, not an emotional thing, just sex.

 

We tell each other and it's exciting to us.

 

In any case, Id only be pissed about the lying or if he didn't use protection with with the other person if that was the situation. Even if it was emotional. Although I'd be jealous possibly if he gave someone else more attention, at least for longer than in the very beginning if he was trying to get her I interested. I can only assume that's how Id feel.

 

We've both been very honest about exactly how we feel with each other right from the start.

 

It's not only about sex for us but sex is a big big part, for both of us and "other" other people, are all part of our discussions.

[hayleym]

I'd be upset if he lied.

He doesn't have to lie.

 

If he or I want another person it's fine, but we would both want each other to choose us over them.

[hayleym]

Someone on this site made a comment about how often people like me or my other man, are "pan sexual" ? I believe that's how it was put? I am also very interested in that.

 

Because both me and my other man are straight in the sense we have only ever been sexually attracted physically and emotionally to the opposite sex, but we have both had sex numerous times with the same sex, loved it and seem it out.

 

With that its purely the psychological thrill and the physical pleasure. Our partners would never ever be ok with that.

[hayleym]

You can't unilaterally decide that it's fine for you to want another person. He should have some input. Have you considered an open relationship? Many people not suited to monogamy are swingers and go to clubs for such things as a couple and sometimes separately. Not to imply that this would require disclosing the affair, mind you.

 

Why would you want him to choose you? Loss of stability or because you desire "love" and emotional connection? It sounds as if you see him as an asset as opposed to a thinking and feeling partner. I don't expect answers to these questions, just for your digestion.

 

Yes me and HIM have an open relationship

Together.

Our partners and us do not though.

[Artie Lang]

Would never ever set out to hurt someone.

 

really???

 

then, what are you doing right now if not hurting your so-called "friend" and your husband.

 

i don't mean to pile on you(pun not intended), but you have some serious issues going on in that noggin of yours.

 

 

you and AU are a cut above the rest of the OW/OM here..... f*cking your friends husband..... c'mon!

 

i'm not gonna tell you there is a "special place" in hell for you because i'm an agnostic. what i will say, is that you two are the worst example of what being a friend and wife should be.

 

DESPICABLE!

[hayleym]

You can't unilaterally decide that it's fine for you to want another person. He should have some input. Have you considered an open relationship? Many people not suited to monogamy are swingers and go to clubs for such things as a couple and sometimes separately. Not to imply that this would require disclosing the affair, mind you.

 

Why would you want him to choose you? Loss of stability or because you desire "love" and emotional connection? It sounds as if you see him as an asset as opposed to a thinking and feeling partner. I don't expect answers to these questions, just for your digestion.

 

I want him to choose me. I don't know why. I want him to want me because I want him. Not to the extent of him or me ending our marriages though.

 

I want the sex, I want to make him feel good because he is just like me and deserves to feel good. I care about his happiness.

I want to feel connected to someone like I do to him.

 

I'm terrified to lose that feeling alone.

I have a deep desire to know he cares and to feel understood. He continues to show that he does.

[StripeyShirt]

You say you are always "there" for your "best" friend. So I assume that she has discussed her sex life with you (or lack thereof), her feelings about that, intimate details of her husband, taken the oportunity to talk about any marital difficulties. *When* you are found out, just imagine how many of those conversations she will look back on.

 

I assure you, she will not see in hindsight that you were "there" for you. She will see you as a manipulative back stabbing enemy.

[hayleym]

You say you are always "there" for your "best" friend. So I assume that she has discussed her sex life with you (or lack thereof), her feelings about that, intimate details of her husband, taken the oportunity to talk about any marital difficulties. *When* you are found out, just imagine how many of those conversations she will look back on.

 

I assure you, she will not see in hindsight that you were "there" for you. She will see you as a manipulative back stabbing enemy.

 

Yes she shares all of that with me. My husband shares a lot with her husband too. And the things we do with them, share with them, advise them and do for them are not to ease guilty consciences or so they forgive us in the event we get caught.

We do what we want because we want to.

I genuinely enjoy her company and have affection and love for her and my husband.

 

Us all being friends allows me and him to see each other and be alone as well. That's a benefit I guess. We were all friends a few years before anything happened. The friendships are real, and were established before the affair.

[hayleym]

 

I assure you, she will not see in hindsight that you were "there" for you. She will see you as a manipulative back stabbing enemy.

 

I hope it never comes to that but wouldn't disagree or argue.

[whichwayisup]

You can kiss the friendship with you so called 'best friend' goodbye when she finds out you've been having an affair right under her nose with her husband. You both are making total fools of her and YOUR husband, every single day.

 

You don't feel bad or guilty about this because 'what they don't know won't hurt them' No point in trying to talk you out of this since you're hellbent to go on and not stop.

 

I PROMISE YOU, you will lose and suffer such consquences, you have no idea. Your head is in the clouds, you're in a total affair fog, and that arrogance of thinking you'll never be caught will all come crashing down eventually.

 

Worst kind of betrayal is this. Enemies at least it's expected of, to stab someone in the back..But a best friend who is considered family? Unexpected. And so hurtful. You'll never EVER be able to fix things. you've lied and pretended for so long, lived a double life.

 

Your husband deserves better.

[whichwayisup]

Yes she shares all of that with me. My husband shares a lot with her husband too. And the things we do with them, share with them, advise them and do for them are not to ease guilty consciences or so they forgive us in the event we get caught.

We do what we want because we want to.

I genuinely enjoy her company and have affection and love for her and my husband.

 

Us all being friends allows me and him to see each other and be alone as well. That's a benefit I guess. We were all friends a few years before anything happened. The friendships are real, and were established before the affair.

So your H will also feel betrayed by you and HIM.

 

This is gonna blow up in your face some day soon. Life as you know it now will be so different. Words can't describe....

 

All I can say is, OWN IT ALL when they find out. Don't lie, don't minimize it, don't throw her husband under the bus and put all the blame on him. OWN your choices and be honest.

[hayleym]

You can kiss the friendship with you so called 'best friend' goodbye when she finds out you've been having an affair right under her nose with her husband. You both are making total fools of her and YOUR husband, every single day.

 

You don't feel bad or guilty about this because 'what they don't know won't hurt them' No point in trying to talk you out of this since you're hellbent to go on and not stop.

 

I PROMISE YOU, you will lose and suffer such consquences, you have no idea. Your head is in the clouds, you're in a total affair fog, and that arrogance of thinking you'll never be caught will all come crashing down eventually.

 

Worst kind of betrayal is this. Enemies at least it's expected of, to stab someone in the back..But a best friend who is considered family? Unexpected. And so hurtful. You'll never EVER be able to fix things. you've lied and pretended for so long, lived a double life.

 

Your husband deserves better.

 

 

How am I in any fog?

 

It's been going on completely unsuspected for two years.

 

I have no illusions that things would just be happy and carefree should anyone find out! It's almost as if people think that threat will scare me, that it will without a doubt be discovered.

 

That's just not true.

 

Don't buy it for one second.

 

We are very careful. If we get caught we know what will very likely happen, we have discussed certain scenario's and how we could communicate messages to each other in the event something happened, and we have both agreed what we will say.

 

We do hope and work towards it not coming to that. We don't want to hurt anyone.

 

I totally understand people hating when I out right say this, but we consider the risk worth it and its calculated risk, planned out. We never just steal an opportunity, we plan it out, and make an informed choice.

It's working well. Not perfect, but it's thrilling and we are both getting a lot out of it.