not everyone who smiles at you is your friend

[keesy14]

[edited post]

Edited November 12, 2013 by keesy14

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

 

All this aside, the fact remains that the poster is self deluded in the belief that there will be no consequences to the behaviour because of the insistence that no such discovery of it will be made. This alone is an indicator of the lofty idealisms of the delusion.

 

The consequences of this situation in which you place yourself are gargantuan and inevitable.

 

This bears repeating.

 

The OP is in serious denial.

[OpenBook]

We are very careful. If we get caught we know what will very likely happen, we have discussed certain scenario's and how we could communicate messages to each other in the event something happened, and we have both agreed what we will say.

 

 

 

And you trust him to keep this agreement?

[janedoe67]

I wanted you to know that I did NOT write that sociopath comment as a ding or hurtful remark. The fact is, not every sociopath ends up as a character on Criminal Minds. Most of them lead normal lives not murdering or dismembering anyone, just becoming successful in possibly Machiavellian ways and being more detached than the rest of us. And each and every one of us, in the right situation, can have aspects of sociopathy. Just like almost everyone on earth has at least a tad of narcissism.

 

I do believe what you are doing is wrong, and I do believe we can hurt people even without their knowledge. But I was not assigned by anyone as everyone else's life police. I have enough to do just trying to live my OWN honorably.

[lilmisscantbewrong]

He will NOT behave as you expect or as you planned when dday hits. Dday changes everything! Most men go scrambling on their knees back to their wives for another chance.

 

I have lived this scenario - it does not work out. You will lose everything - your best friend, your lover and possibly your husband and your husband will lose his friend as well. You say he pursued you? That might be true, but I can guarantee he will turn it around and say you were the aggressor.

 

This, my friend, does not have a happy ending. You have gotten away with it, maybe, for two years. But I would be willing to bet that someone suspects and it is most likely her. But at this point she and your husband probably dismiss most of it because they cannot allow themselves to believe that you would betray them like that - but trust me - deep inside they already know.

 

I don't know how she did it but my xmom's wife (my friend as well) had been reading our emails for about 1 1/2 years prior to the first dday - at that point they were innocuous but she had seen sparks flying between us and how we interacted - she continued to be fun, loving, we went on vacation together, etc - we did not know she suspected anything. My husband was suspicious as well, but it wasn't until the second dday (his discovery) that he really started snooping - he even said he thought about hiring a pi.

 

All if this to say that you are sitting on a time bomb. My advice is to end it now. You will lose these relationships anyway - might as well be now.

[Sub]

And you trust him to keep this agreement?

 

This sums it up. The point of the thread appears to be that you can't trust anyone.....except, apparently, the AP who's been lying to his wife and is sleeping with a good friend of hers in the bed they share. Ironic.

[hayleym]

I am "ill" because I deal with emotions differently than other people? Because I can lie?

I am not a danger to anyone. I'm don't get enjoyment out of other people's pain.

 

But if I want something, and for some reason I'm not supposed to have it, but there is a way I can get away with it without getting caught, I'll go for it. If I've decided the risk is worth it. I am very very far from the only person like this, a lot just won't admit it.

 

Could give a number of examples. Past infidelities included.

 

Only time I've ever been caught was minor. I really can only remember once and it was for stealing a candy when I was a kid I think.

 

If I am a sociopath Id be very interested to know what exactly that mean. I'm not offended by the thought and I don't see a reason to change. Unless a dday happens, which at the moment is unlikely, but not impossible, we will deal with it, but as it stands nobody is really getting hurt.

[hayleym]

The more I read of this thread the more concerned I become about the depths of serious illness the OP displays.

 

Sociopathy and Psychopathy share similar traits:

 

A disregard for the rights of others.

 

A disregard for social mores.

 

A failure to experience remorse or guilt.

 

To mention a few.

 

While professionals still debate such definitions regarding both diagnosis, it becomes increasingly apparent that in this case there are ethic and historical indicators of both behavioural patterns. Somewhere, in the dark recesses of the long term memory from early years is where I suspect plausible explanations might be found.

 

There is also the insidious referral to the idea of torture as erotic stimulus and the suggestion of raised interest in the psychology of inflicting pain and death that would cause considerable alarm.

 

All this aside, the fact remains that the poster is self deluded in the belief that there will be no consequences to the behaviour because of the insistence that no such discovery of it will be made. This alone is an indicator of the lofty idealisms of the delusion.

 

The consequences of this situation in which you place yourself are gargantuan and inevitable.

 

I think I'm very self aware actually. Just because I don't care to change doesn't make me deluded.

 

What's the difference between a sociopath and a phychopath?

[skywriter]

Would it be alright with you, if your MM, were to meet a girlfriend of yours, start calling her, and eventually have an A with her , while having an A with you?

[hayleym]

There is also the insidious referral to the idea of torture as erotic stimulus and the suggestion of raised interest in the psychology of inflicting pain and death that would cause considerable alarm.

 

All this aside, the fact remains that the poster is self deluded in the belief that there will be no consequences to the behaviour because of the insistence that no such discovery of it will be made. This alone is an indicator of the lofty idealisms of the delusion.

 

The consequences of this situation in which you place yourself are gargantuan and inevitable.

 

I said the idea of self torture turns me on and that I'm intrigued by things like death and tortures, murder, but I don't get pleasure from them. Entertainment in a way maybe, I like reading and researching it. But I think of the psychological aspect, that's what interests me.

 

I'm far from violent. Never hurt a fly.

 

And I'm quite capable of feeling guilt but I think I may mix guilt up with shame.

 

 

And I although I said and fully believe our risk of being discovered is low, right now , I also have said numerous times we know its very possible and we are focused on the steps to avoid that and we have a plan in place should it happen.

[underwater2010]

I've been reading a lot on here and other forums lately and I'm surprised how shocked people are when they discover someone they know has been in affair, or their own partner.

 

Really, I guess I must just think differently than other people. I've had people label me a lot of things after hearing my story. They don't really bother me because I'm pretty confident in my ability to keep the one life separate from the next. Most who know me wouldn't believe the things I'm capable of hiding.

 

Actually...most people that engage in affairs think the EXACT same way you do. It is that "confidence" that they will not get caught that usually ends up causing a Dday. Although it sounds like you are one of a few that are PROUD that you can lie so well. Not a great character trait if you ask me.

 

Most wouldn't believe the things most people are capable of hiding. We all have secrets but some people obviously have more.

 

It is not that we are surprised what most people are capable of hiding. We are surprised that people have such a lack of worth, character and empathy.

 

A few women here have admitted to knowing the wife of their other man. They are some how much worse than any of the other women who are placing themselves in another woman's marriage, simply because they know the wife too?

 

Yep...we can understand when a "stranger" can be callous and intentionally hurt someone they have no intimate knowledge of. When someone can look you in the face, have intimate conversations and then turn around and stab you in the back it is much, much worse.

 

Or can lie easier or what?

 

I don't think it is lying easier.

 

Is it because the wife would be some how MORE hurt if she found out?

 

Let me ask you...would you feel more violated if a stranger robbed your house, or if you best friend/family member did it? Because yes it is similar. The BS trusts you enough to think you would protect and comfort them. Instead you would walk in with a smile on your face and rip their heart out.

 

What's your reasoning for it being worse?

 

I wrote most of it above. But what gets me.....the ability to stab someone you claim to care about without a second thought.

 

Insult to injury? I've heard that one. I still don't think I'm worse than anyone else who lies. I'm just different.

 

Its not just the lying. And maybe that is what you don't get. It is the fact that you could hurt someone that you claim is your "best friend". Please drop that term, because you are NO friend to her.

 

I'm in an ongoing affair with my best friends husband.

They are more like family.

 

So would you screw your brother's or sister's spouse too?

 

We want it to continue as long as possible with nobody finding out, if it gets out of control we will try to take a break but we are having fun. It's fun.. That's how I would describe it.

 

Hope you get your "fun" out of your system. FYI the longer the affair continues the higher your chance of being caught. You tend to get complacent and take more risk, because hey you got away with it so far right.

 

I have no intention to hurt her or my husband, I don't want to ruin our marriages, I just want to have someone else to confide in and have sex with.

 

Another lie you are stating. Every time you plan a meeting or engage in the affair, it is premeditated. You have every intention of continuing the affair....regardless that it WILL hurt both BSs.

 

If you are wanting someone else to have sex with....divorce your husband or ask for an open marriage. But DO NOT claim to be faithful to his face and screw someone else.

 

That's the extent of it, he's amazing, sexy, charming and basically my other half.

 

NO.....your other half is your husband. The more you write, the more it sounds as though you have become emotionally invested in the MOM.

 

His wife is pretty cool to and one of the best friends I've ever had, she is great to be around,

 

Please stop calling her your friend....you are NOT a friend to her. You are the enemy. You are toxic to her and her marriage.

 

and my husband although we mix like oil and water sometimes, loves me and I love him.

 

I really believe that you mean it. But do you think he is going to feel that you love him when he finds out? Do you think he is going to ever look or feel about you the same way again?

 

I'm getting pretty much exactly what I want from the affair. If I had to complain it would be that I do compare my husband to the other guy to much, they have very different qualities and my husband is far from lacking, but I do find myself comparing.

 

That is the problem when engaging in an affair. I am sure you take the blahs and make them worse than they truly are. By comparing them you are making him out to be less than you need. That is normal and a way to justify you seeking attention/sex outside of your marriage.

 

Also I wish the other guy would give me more attention at certain times, but that's unrealistic in our situations and really it's just my over active need for attention than him not providing it.. Because he gives me lots of attention.

 

I could just always use more.

 

I think friends sleeping with friends husbands / wives/ girlfriends or boyfriends is probably much more common than people think.

 

Another justification. It is not common....by a long shot. And is actually worse than cheating with a stranger....and you know it or you wouldn't keep defending your behavior.

 

In our case it's been two years of every single time his wife or my husband went out of town, and many times in between.

 

The common advice here is that every affair ends in a dday. I really really find it hard to believe that even the people giving those statements believe that?

 

It is not just here that you will see it...check all around on cheating forums. And a little secret I will let you in on.....not all ddays come about while the affair is in full swing. Some are even discovered long after they are over and done with. May you be one of the few that get away with it. *insert eye roll*

 

Things happen every day that are never discovered.

 

I don't know if I need advice.

My relationship with my husband isn't perfect, neither is my relationship with my lover, but both are pretty great.

 

My most challenging relationship is with myself. I'm confused a lot, but I don't really feel guilty. If I knew for a fact we wouldn't ever be found out I don't think I'd feel any guilt at all actually.. Because I really do feel like they won't be hurt if they don't know. So far so good.

 

My advice to anyone else? Don't trust anyone.

 

It always cracks me up that the people cheating and lying are the first to say "Don't trust anyone". While the BSs are the first to put there hearts and souls out there and take a chance on people without even thinking about how selfish some people are. I cannot help but just shake my head.

 

 

see bolded.

[hayleym]

 

The OP is in serious denial.

 

What am I in denial about??

We know we can get caught. We know its possible. We are very well aware of that and take it into account every single time we take a risk.

 

We are clear on what we will do it say if it happens. We've discussed all sorts of possibilities. From someone walking in, to making sure we know who we are texting before we text, we have discussed if my husband it wife discovered, how we will warn each other, discussed it from a lot of possible angels.

 

We are not just assuming we won't get caught. Wouldn't that be stupid?

 

I think it's almost a go to for people to assume the people in an affair are in a fog, of in a fantasy land. I'm not. He's not. We know what we are doing. Maybe it's hard for people like you to accept people can get away with it?

 

People get away with much much worse things than affairs in their lifetime.

 

We both like having secrets. It's not exhausting, we enjoy it. It works for us. We are not in denial we are not confused.

[hayleym]

And you trust him to keep this agreement?

 

I have a hard time trusting anyone but I trust him the most I've trusted anyone ever. He has just as much or more to lose than I do. Yes, he'll keep the agreement.

[hayleym]

I wanted you to know that I did NOT write that sociopath comment as a ding or hurtful remark. The fact is, not every sociopath ends up as a character on Criminal Minds. Most of them lead normal lives not murdering or dismembering anyone, just becoming successful in possibly Machiavellian ways and being more detached than the rest of us. And each and every one of us, in the right situation, can have aspects of sociopathy. Just like almost everyone on earth has at least a tad of narcissism.

 

I do believe what you are doing is wrong, and I do believe we can hurt people even without their knowledge. But I was not assigned by anyone as everyone else's life police. I have enough to do just trying to live my OWN honorably.

 

I wasn't offended at all. Thanks for being open minded and respectful.

[hayleym]

I have lived this scenario - it does not work out. You will lose everything - your best friend, your lover and possibly your husband and your husband will lose his friend as well. You say he pursued you? That might be true, but I can guarantee he will turn it around and say you were the aggressor.

 

 

You would need to be personally aware of our situation I suppose but not one person that knows us would believe I was the aggressor. He knows that and so do I.

 

I have spent my entire life making sure people think exactly of my character and who I am, how I want them to think. I've never had an issue with that really, maybe once or twice but then I just separated from that person in that case. Those that know me, know be very very well, but they know the me I showed them, the me I want them to see.

 

He's got a good handle on that now but didn't in previous years and as a result we both know exactly who everyone would believe.

 

We will both stick to our plan. No reason to place blame.

[cozycottagelg]

Deleted my comment.

Edited November 12, 2013 by cozycottagelg
I was being snarky.

[Sub]

What am I in denial about??

I think it's almost a go to for people to assume the people in an affair are in a fog, of in a fantasy land. I'm not. He's not. We know what we are doing. Maybe it's hard for people like you to accept people can get away with it?

 

People get away with much much worse things than affairs in their lifetime.

 

We both like having secrets. It's not exhausting, we enjoy it. It works for us. We are not in denial we are not confused.

 

I think the difference is that most of the people are considering the effects the discovery would have on each of your BS's. Whereas, unless I've missed something, you're just focused on the enjoyment you're getting out of it. You're assuming the agreement you have with your AP will limit the damage. I don't know what "the plan" is, nor do I think it's relevant. But "the plan" is only going to work for the two of you in the bubble you've created for yourselves. And that's only IF he holds up his end of the bargain.

[hayleym]

This, my friend, does not have a happy ending. You have gotten away with it, maybe, for two years. But I would be willing to bet that someone suspects and it is most likely her. But at this point she and your husband probably dismiss most of it because they cannot allow themselves to believe that you would betray them like that - but trust me - deep inside they already know.

 

Crazy situation you were in. She must have been a good actress.

 

My husband and his wife are not.

 

They absolutely do not have any idea. At all. I can read both of them like a book, I'm not just saying that. I do care very much about both of them but as I've said before if I could read them, they would not be as close to me as them are.

 

That's how I choose who to attach too.

[hayleym]

This sums it up. The point of the thread appears to be that you can't trust anyone.....except, apparently, the AP who's been lying to his wife and is sleeping with a good friend of hers in the bed they share. Ironic.

 

I don't trust him completely of course, I don't even think its possible for me to trust someone completely. But the favour in this situation is with me, be would stick to the story and agreement because it actually makes him like better than he would without it, in our opinion.

 

He doesn't really have a reason to lie to me.

 

We both like having secrets and even have some from each other, but a more, don't ask don't tell thing. If I ask him something he will tell the truth and I will too. We both enjoy it.

[cozycottagelg]

Crazy situation you were in. She must have been a good actress.

 

My husband and his wife are not.

 

They absolutely do not have any idea. At all. I can read both of them like a book, I'm not just saying that. I do care very much about both of them but as I've said before if I could read them, they would not be as close to me as them are.

 

That's how I choose who to attach too.

 

You probably won't get caught. If she has any suspicions, she'd probably consult with you, since you're her "best friend" and all.

 

While I don't agree with a single moral or scenario that you've written in this thread...you are thinking clearly. It sounds like you have all your crap together. You do. It's completely selfish...but you know what you're doing. You attach yourself to people who you can read like a book, making it easier to lie and manipulate situations. You are sleeping with someone you have access to all the time. Someone your husband wouldn't expect you are sleeping with. You don't feel guilty. You don't want to end your marriage. I don't agree with any of it, but it seems to be working.

[hayleym]

Would it be alright with you, if your MM, were to meet a girlfriend of yours, start calling her, and eventually have an A with her , while having an A with you?

 

It would bother me if he didn't tell me yes. I'd expect to be able to tell he was hiding that it lying to me.

But actually he has a thing for a specific friend and we talk about it lots. He's interested sexually not emotionally and if I can help make it happen for him I will but we both think she's a huge risk to tell someone so we will likely avoid it.

 

I've already said I would be angry that someone lied to me, more because I expect myself to know and be able to pick up liars and I'm really good at it.

 

He doesn't lie cause if he tells me what he wants I usually want the same thing or am as interested in it as he is.

[cozycottagelg]

It would bother me if he didn't tell me yes. I'd expect to be able to tell he was hiding that it lying to me.

But actually he has a thing for a specific friend and we talk about it lots. He's interested sexually not emotionally and if I can help make it happen for him I will but we both think she's a huge risk to tell someone so we will likely avoid it.

 

I've already said I would be angry that someone lied to me, more because I expect myself to know and be able to pick up liars and I'm really good at it.

 

He doesn't lie cause if he tells me what he wants I usually want the same thing or am as interested in it as he is.

 

How come your MM owes you the truth, but he doesn't owe it to his wife?

[skywriter]

It would bother me if he didn't tell me yes. I'd expect to be able to tell he was hiding that it lying to me.

But actually he has a thing for a specific friend and we talk about it lots. He's interested sexually not emotionally and if I can help make it happen for him I will but we both think she's a huge risk to tell someone so we will likely avoid it.

 

I've already said I would be angry that someone lied to me, more because I expect myself to know and be able to pick up liars and I'm really good at it.

 

He doesn't lie cause if he tells me what he wants I usually want the same thing or am as interested in it as he is.

 

Ok, I understand. But, Hayley, aren't you concerned with the possibility of contracting an std?

 

he may be honest with you within the A that you two have, but when he isn't with you, he may be with yet another person.

[Ruffian1]

My other man is exactly like me.

No doubt about that, he's a "user' too.

I don't think we are so different from most people if they knew they wouldn't get caught, lots would do the same if they wanted.

 

Maybe the people you hang out with, but no, most people would not do the same.

[hayleym]

How come your MM owes you the truth, but he doesn't owe it to his wife?

 

He doesn't owe me anything. The reason me and him work is because we don't expect anything of each other that we don't both want to freely give.