Overcoming Self-Loathing and Negativity

[Pearl27]

Hi,

 

I joined this forum because I am trying to take steps toward better mental and emotional health. I wanted to find a place where I can freely discuss my struggles with this, so I hope this forum will be that place.

 

I have dealt with very low self esteem and even self-hatred practically all my life. I have suffered depression and anxiety for years, and I still combat them. This year though, I've taken steps to being a healthier person, but it has not been easy. I'm so used to hating and sabotaging myself that I'm almost unable to take the steps I want to take. I'm too much of a perfectionist and I care far too much what people think of me. I take too heart what people think of me too often, and it is destroying me. I think they are right, yet I never try to detach myself from what they think. Well, I do try and succeed for a short time, but I keep falling back to square one. It is so frustrating.

 

I'm trying to be a more mature, healthier person. I'm trying to take more responsibility for myself and my life and my decisions. I am tired of being weak and unproductive. I want to be better, but I have so little strength to do so.

 

Has anyone been in this position? How do you pick yourself up? How do you grow stronger? What are the steps that you take?

 

In the meantime, nice to meet all of you!

[d0nnivain]

I have some of the same struggles you do, maybe not to the same degree. To some extent, fake it 'till you make it has worked for me. I just try to tell myself that other people do ______ whatever ____ all the time so I should be able to do it too.

 

In your struggle to heal I hope you have engaged the services of a professional. That is the best hep you can get.

 

Talking also helps.

 

Hang in there.

[Pearl27]

I have some of the same struggles you do, maybe not to the same degree. To some extent, fake it 'till you make it has worked for me. I just try to tell myself that other people do ______ whatever ____ all the time so I should be able to do it too.

 

In your struggle to heal I hope you have engaged the services of a professional. That is the best hep you can get.

 

Talking also helps.

 

Hang in there.

 

Thanks. I am seeing a therapist, but I think I'm driving her crazy with my inability to stop being a perfectionist. I may not be, but I get the feeling it annoys her that she can't get through to me.

 

Sometimes I try to look at myself in the mirror and tell myself that it is OK to not be perfect and I'm doing fine as I am. I am good enough, basically. When I do so, a great weight comes off my shoulders. But I am so used to thinking like this that it is so hard to not do it. At the same time, I feel like I'm being one of those "losers" that can't stop being negative and is falling apart. I can't help but internalize the negative attitude many have toward anyone who struggles with self-esteem and confidence. Sure, they may have a point, but they are too harsh about it. Oh, why can't I take care of myself better?

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Good topic.

 

Self-loathing and anxiety is the story of my life. I'm not the person I would choose to be if I were normal. I have Borderline personality disorder and avoidant personality disorder plus ADD that I'll soon be getting help with. Regular talk therapy is ineffective for what I have.

 

When someone is confused about having a persistent pattern of negativity, I tell them to do research on Personality Disorders. Even if you don't meet the clinical requirements of any of them, you have symptoms that are shared by those with PDs.

 

There's Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that's supposed to be effective. I'm hearing about EMDR too.

[Pearl27]

Good topic.

 

Self-loathing and anxiety is the story of my life. I'm not the person I would choose to be if I were normal. I have Borderline personality disorder and avoidant personality disorder plus ADD that I'll soon be getting help with. Regular talk therapy is ineffective for what I have.

 

When someone is confused about having a persistent pattern of negativity, I tell them to do research on Personality Disorders. Even if you don't meet the clinical requirements of any of them, you have symptoms that are shared by those with PDs.

 

There's Cognitive Behavioral Therapy that's supposed to be effective. I'm hearing about EMDR too.

 

Oh my gosh. I just looked up BPD, and I seem to fit the criteria.

 

Actually wait, I do fit the criteria. Oh yeah. Definitely, and I'm not being negative either. I actually feel a little relieved because now I can finally say what is really wrong with me. But also depressed because I'm, like, a mess. Who would want to be my friend or even love me now? No, I'm not being negative here, just genuinely concerned.

 

I'll see my therapist this weekend and I'll bring this up to her. She had said I clearly suffer from major depressive episode, but with my mood swings that last a few hours and a poor sense of self, I'm certainly a BPD. Yikes.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Congratulations, and sorry for the bad news.

 

It's good for you to have solid information about the feelings that have probably confused you all throughout life. You don't have to wonder why some people can't identify with how you feel and are uncomfortable around you.

 

But it sucks knowing that you're like this and you can't just take medication or talk to a normal therapist to make it go away.

 

But then it's good that there is decent therapy available now. Whether CBT, DBT, this EMDR I just heard about, or whatever.

 

Be proactive and take it seriously.

[Grumpybutfun]

Pearl:

Hi and welcome to LS. Due to your perfectionism, I wonder if you had someone who told you negative things as a child like, "I never loved you. I didn't want you. You are ugly. You are dumb. Nobody wants to be around you. You smell or something about your personality is offensive?" Many times we internalize what grown-ups tell us as a child.

Do you remember anything like that?

Best,

Grumps

[AnyaNova]

Oh my gosh. I just looked up BPD, and I seem to fit the criteria.

 

Actually wait, I do fit the criteria. Oh yeah. Definitely, and I'm not being negative either. I actually feel a little relieved because now I can finally say what is really wrong with me. But also depressed because I'm, like, a mess. Who would want to be my friend or even love me now? No, I'm not being negative here, just genuinely concerned.

 

I'll see my therapist this weekend and I'll bring this up to her. She had said I clearly suffer from major depressive episode, but with my mood swings that last a few hours and a poor sense of self, I'm certainly a BPD. Yikes.

 

I just found out aces days ago that I have avoidant personality disorder. I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling with one too!

 

One thing that really helped with my self esteem, I had a therapist who ever session would make me list good things about myself. First five and then ten and twenty and so on, and I was expected to be able to just rattle them off.

 

It was not a miracle cure and self esteem especially in social interactions is something hat I struggle with still!

[Pearl27]

Congratulations, and sorry for the bad news.

 

It's good for you to have solid information about the feelings that have probably confused you all throughout life. You don't have to wonder why some people can't identify with how you feel and are uncomfortable around you.

 

But it sucks knowing that you're like this and you can't just take medication or talk to a normal therapist to make it go away.

 

But then it's good that there is decent therapy available now. Whether CBT, DBT, this EMDR I just heard about, or whatever.

 

Be proactive and take it seriously.

 

I already am checking out blogs and found an app that gives good insight on dealing and overcoming BPD. Like I said, I feel some relief to finally identify what is wrong with me. I already have good insight on myself and can analyze well (though I can totally overdo it). However, it is sad that I have this problem.

 

Pearl:

Hi and welcome to LS. Due to your perfectionism, I wonder if you had someone who told you negative things as a child like, "I never loved you. I didn't want you. You are ugly. You are dumb. Nobody wants to be around you. You smell or something about your personality is offensive?" Many times we internalize what grown-ups tell us as a child.

Do you remember anything like that?

Best,

Grumps

 

Oh do I. I was bullied mercilessly by my family and at school. My dad is an NPD who emotionally abused me. He said a lot or close to what you suggested. As a teen dealing with depression, he called me a psycho. Nothing I ever did was right or good enough. He had ridiculously high standards for me and I was responsible for his happiness. Needless to say, he played a huge role in my poor emotional development.

 

The good news is that earlier this year, I finally moved out and got a place of my own, albeit with roommates. While I may have been impulsive about it (BPD?), I can say it was the best decision I made. My stress has been cut in half because my dad is not around me. But I still have myself to deal with. Just glad that I know what is really wrong with me, and I could put everything under one umbrella rather than a clutter of problems.

[AnyaNova]

Apologies for the typos tonight. Am on my phone.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Just glad that I know what is really wrong with me, and I could put everything under one umbrella rather than a clutter of problems.

 

I know exactly what you mean.

 

It's no longer the big mess of unexplainable problems with no end in sight.

 

Emotional instability

Impulsiveness

Unstable interpersonal relationships

Fear of abandonment

Attachment issues

Negative Self-image

Anxiety

Low self-esteem

Splitting people either all good, or all bad.

[Pearl27]

I know exactly what you mean.

 

It's no longer the big mess of unexplainable problems with no end in sight.

 

Emotional instability

Impulsiveness

Unstable interpersonal relationships

Fear of abandonment

Attachment issues

Negative Self-image

Anxiety

Low self-esteem

Splitting people either all good, or all bad.

 

I'm not really that impulsive. I mean, its not like I binge drink or go on a massive shopping spree or do something totally irrational. I tend to get hysterical, especially when stressed, and that could lead to impulsivity.

 

I don't know, I'm just trying to figure out how badly I have BPD. I have to be proactive about this, like you said, and I hope I don't get side tracked. I may need to join a support group to help myself. I'm just worried about my personal relationships. I don't get close to people, or allow them to get close to me. But I am making an effort to let people into my life, and now that I realize I have BPD, I wonder how I can have relationships with those people. I mean, should I stop dating? Not hang out one-on-one with potential friends?

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I'm not really that impulsive. I mean, its not like I binge drink or go on a massive shopping spree or do something totally irrational. I tend to get hysterical, especially when stressed, and that could lead to impulsivity.

 

I don't know, I'm just trying to figure out how badly I have BPD. I have to be proactive about this, like you said, and I hope I don't get side tracked. I may need to join a support group to help myself. I'm just worried about my personal relationships. I don't get close to people, or allow them to get close to me. But I am making an effort to let people into my life, and now that I realize I have BPD, I wonder how I can have relationships with those people. I mean, should I stop dating? Not hang out one-on-one with potential friends?

 

I think that depends on the people you are involved with. If they are supportive and you trust them, then maybe they are good to be in contact with. If it's contentious and you end up hurting one another, then stay away until you make some improvement.

[Pearl27]

I think that depends on the people you are involved with. If they are supportive and you trust them, then maybe they are good to be in contact with. If it's contentious and you end up hurting one another, then stay away until you make some improvement.

 

But what if they know I have BDP? Or they see that I'm unstable and avoid me? This is such a burden.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

If someone is avoiding you because you are unstable then let it be. Do not seek friendships with those who are obviously put off by you. It could get a bit pathetic, I've been there.

 

If someone knows you have BPD and stays your friend then good. If they don't, it is time to let them go for now, possibly for good.

 

I suggest not spending too much time with other people while you get yourself together. Not saying avoid everyone but I don't think now is the time to be super social. Most people will have a very hard time relating to what you are going through and will feel uncomfortable with the situation.

 

Treatment should be the priority. If someone cares about you they will be supportive.

[Grumpybutfun]

I know exactly what you mean.

 

It's no longer the big mess of unexplainable problems with no end in sight.

 

Emotional instability

Impulsiveness

Unstable interpersonal relationships

Fear of abandonment

Attachment issues

Negative Self-image

Anxiety

Low self-esteem

Splitting people either all good, or all bad.

 

Pearl:

These are also signs of severe neglect and child abuse as a child. I am not saying you aren't BPD, and Shogun has really good insight into this disorder so definitively talk to a professional about that possibility, but just giving you another option that your symptoms could be due to your father's emotional/verbal abuse and neglect. BPD is common in adult survivors of child abuse, however, most professionals are reluctant to diagnose young adults with BPD because their development at that age is still fluid. As we develop as children/ teens/young adults, most of our experiences reflect behaviorally due to how stuff imprints on our brains. Since you said you just moved out of your father's household, I was just going off of that that you might still be a young adult. Verbal/ Emotional Abuse can be as devastating, even to some more so, as physical abuse so it is definitely something you should ask your therapist about, and if the one you are currently using isn't a specialist in child abuse, get a referral for one that is. At this point in therapy, there should definitely be a correlation drawn between perfectionism, depression, low self-esteem and self-loathing and your father's abuse.

Best,

Grumps

Edited November 14, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Pearl:

These are also signs of severe neglect and child abuse as a child. I am not saying you aren't BPD, and Shogun has really good insight into this disorder so definitively talk to a professional about that possibility, but just giving you another option that your symptoms could be due to your father's emotional/verbal abuse and neglect. BPD is common in adult survivors of child abuse, however, most professionals are reluctant to diagnose young adults with BPD because their development at that age is still fluid. As we develop as children/ teens/young adults, most of our experiences reflect behaviorally due to how stuff imprints on our brains. Since you said you just moved out of your father's household, I was just going off of that that you might still be a young adult. Verbal/ Emotional Abuse can be as devastating, even to some more so, as physical abuse so it is definitely something you should ask your therapist about, and if the one you are currently using isn't a specialist in child abuse, get a referral for one that is. At this point in therapy, there should definitely be a correlation drawn between perfectionism, depression, low self-esteem and self-loathing and your father's abuse.

Best,

Grumps

 

I'm just not convinced that it's always abuse that causes these things. Not saying it can't but in my limited first hand knowledge, significant childhood trauma did not occur.

 

The only damage I feel I suffered was because I was not accepted by my peers often. This was due to the ADD making me just a bit odd.

 

My childhood was filled with the basic teasing anyone who is a bit different gets, and filled with some embarrassing moments with my peers that made me want to die.

 

But, my home life was very sheltered. I was protected, supported, and loved. Never abused or neglected by any adult.

 

It's only the line above that makes me question conventional wisdom.

 

I suspect that many of these disorders are a result of genetic predisposition. BPDs like to find someone to blame for their problems (this is especially true for psychopaths). If there was an adult who mistreated them as a child, that is the perfect excuse one needs and it gets reported like that by a mental health care professional.

 

The other side is that someone who mistreats a child most likely has some type of disorder themselves, increasing the likelihood that their offspring will have some disorder based on genetics.

 

I have no proof, just have put a lot of thought into it for years.

Edited November 15, 2013 by AShogunNamedMarcus

[Grumpybutfun]

I'm just not convinced that it's always abuse that causes these things. Not saying it can't but in my limited first hand knowledge, significant childhood trauma did not occur. She may be reacting from the abuse and not have BPD.

 

The only damage I feel I suffered was because I was not accepted by my peers often. This was due to the ADD making me just a bit odd.

 

My childhood was filled with the basic teasing anyone who is a bit different gets, and filled with some embarrassing moments with my peers that made me want to die.

 

But, my home life was very sheltered. I was protected, supported, and loved. Never abused or neglected by any adult.

 

It's only the last paragraph that makes me question conventional wisdom.

 

I suspect that many of these disorders are a result of genetic predisposition. BPDs like to find someone to blame for their problems (this is especially true for psychopaths). If there was an adult who mistreated them as a child, that is the perfect excuse one needs and it gets reported like that by a mental health care professional.

 

The other side is that someone who mistreats a child most likely has some type of disorder themselves, increasing the likelihood that their offspring will have some disorder based on genetics.

 

I have no proof, just have put a lot of thought into it for years.

 

Shogun:

My wife was abused as a child and these symptoms you listed were all relevant to her experiences with child abuse. She was treated for child abuse and is fully functional without any symptoms of any disorder, and has been for about four years. Pearl may be reacting to child abuse symptoms and not have BPD.

Experiences vary, and Pearl's may be completely different from either of ours. I wasn't implying that BPD is only in people who experienced childhood abuse, but that this was another possibility since she is so young. It is so common for BPD to affect people from both sides...nature or nurture, it may be relevant for her to discuss this possibility. If you read the materials on BPD it always says that doctors are loathe to diagnose someone who is a young adult because neurologically brains are still developing, and processing conflict/ stress/ anxiety is difficult for them.

Your experience without abuse is definitely relevant, but since she has suffered emotional/ verbal abuse, isn't it worth taking into consideration? I am sure you will agree that the best way to solve any issue is to take into account all of the data. Thanks for sharing your experiences, you are really self-aware and that is an amazing feat.

Good chat,

Grumps

Edited November 15, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[AnyaNova]

Shogun:

My wife was abused as a child and these symptoms you listed were all relevant to her experiences with child abuse. She was treated for child abuse and is fully functional without any symptoms of any disorder, and has been for about four years. Pearl may be reacting to child abuse symptoms and not have BPD.

Experiences vary, and Pearl's may be completely different from either of ours. I wasn't implying that BPD is only in people who experienced childhood abuse, but that this was another possibility since she is so young. It is so common for BPD to affect people from both sides...nature or nurture, it may be relevant for her to discuss this possibility. If you read the materials on BPD it always says that doctors are loathe to diagnose someone who is a young adult because neurologically brains are still developing, and processing conflict/ stress/ anxiety is difficult for them.

Your experience without abuse is definitely relevant, but since she has suffered emotional/ verbal abuse, isn't it worth taking into consideration? I am sure you will agree that the best way to solve any issue is to take into account all of the data. Thanks for sharing your experiences, you are really self-aware and that is an amazing feat.

Good chat,

Grumps

 

In some therapeutic circles, BPD is now referred to as complex ptsd, and understood as arising from traumatic experiences. Also, Ashogun, don't dismiss the childhood rejection/trauma from peers. It is a known risk factor for AvPD, and I would suspect for BPD as well.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Shogun:

My wife was abused as a child and these symptoms you listed were all relevant to her experiences with child abuse. She was treated for child abuse and is fully functional without any symptoms of any disorder, and has been for about four years. Pearl may be reacting to child abuse symptoms and not have BPD.

Experiences vary, and Pearl's may be completely different from either of ours. I wasn't implying that BPD is only in people who experienced childhood abuse, but that this was another possibility since she is so young. It is so common for BPD to affect people from both sides...nature or nurture, it may be relevant for her to discuss this possibility. If you read the materials on BPD it always says that doctors are loathe to diagnose someone who is a young adult because neurologically brains are still developing, and processing conflict/ stress/ anxiety is difficult for them.

Your experience without abuse is definitely relevant, but since she has suffered emotional/ verbal abuse, isn't it worth taking into consideration? I am sure you will agree that the best way to solve any issue is to take into account all of the data. Thanks for sharing your experiences, you are really self-aware and that is an amazing feat.

Good chat,

Grumps

 

My apologies if I sounded dismissive at all to the trauma of abused children. Like I said I just suspect some things. Mostly because of inconsistencies in the data compared to my experience.

 

I think the genetic factors are downplayed more and more. Psychopathy is genetic. Two of my disorders I know are genetic.

 

My father, me, and my daughter all have AvPD.

My mother, me, and my daughter all have Inattentive ADD.

 

My mother and father had very different upbringings than I did. My daughter had an extremely different upbringing that I did or they did. Those disorders were not caused by environmental factors or nurture, I'm almost positive.

 

What I'm asking is that more consideration be given to the nature side. So far the nurture side has had all the attention and I am not dismissing it. It has been conventional wisdom for years so I have considered it.

 

The BPD is the mystery. My father and daughter have the same shy and avoidant traits that I do and similar childhoods of being teased and left out, but I'm the only I've ever known in my family to have BPD.

 

The nurture explanation just does not fit in my case. I've thought about it for years and have discussed it many, many times with my psychiatrists. Nobody has been able to explain it.

[Pearl27]

I'm actually 31. Because of grad school, unemployment, and not so great salaries, I took a long time to finally move out. BTW, my job troubles were related to the economy and also immaturity on my part.

 

I was horribly bullied at school too. Because my parents taught me no social skills, self-esteem or confidence, I was chronically bullied. I have difficulty trusting people as a result.

 

In regards to my social life, I am making friends slowly and go out two or three times a week. Is that too much? Also I have a date this weekend. If I am not supposed to get too close to anyone at this point, how should I break it off if need be? Should I just keep it casual?

 

A therapist I saw when I was 18 suggested that I had BPD, but I didn't look into that. I was pressured by my parents to stop therapy because they said they didn't want me to be dependent on it. In truth, I think they were just uncomfortable with the idea of me seeking help outside the family because they're such control freaks.

 

I was diagnosed with bipolar II when I was 24 and given Abilify. I've been in therapy on and off since I was 18. These days, I am off medication with nothing drastic happening, and I'm still seeing a therapist. Like I said, this weekend I'll talk with her about me having BPD and getting treatment for it.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

I'm actually 31. Because of grad school, unemployment, and not so great salaries, I took a long time to finally move out. BTW, my job troubles were related to the economy and also immaturity on my part.

 

I was horribly bullied at school too. Because my parents taught me no social skills, self-esteem or confidence, I was chronically bullied. I have difficulty trusting people as a result.

 

In regards to my social life, I am making friends slowly and go out two or three times a week. Is that too much? Also I have a date this weekend. If I am not supposed to get too close to anyone at this point, how should I break it off if need be? Should I just keep it casual?

 

A therapist I saw when I was 18 suggested that I had BPD, but I didn't look into that. I was pressured by my parents to stop therapy because they said they didn't want me to be dependent on it. In truth, I think they were just uncomfortable with the idea of me seeking help outside the family because they're such control freaks.

 

I was diagnosed with bipolar II when I was 24 and given Abilify. I've been in therapy on and off since I was 18. These days, I am off medication with nothing drastic happening, and I'm still seeing a therapist. Like I said, this weekend I'll talk with her about me having BPD and getting treatment for it.

 

About your social interactions..

 

I do not know how you should handle it or who you should be around. Social interaction has been the biggest weakness my entire life.

 

Whatever you decide, proceed with caution. Try to be as mindful as you can of your emotional state. You can practice looking deeper into your emotions. Often times the emotions I feel on the surface are different than what I'm feeling at my core.

[Pearl27]

I have the same thing about my emotions too.

 

I'm not able to interact with people on an intimate level. I am only strong enough to be casual. I'm simply not strong enough to be vulnerable or to handle complex emotions. I don't know how to call off that date. It's not a friend, just a guy I met a few times. Part of me wants to proceed to see if I could handle not being so afraid. I usually call off relationships after two or three dates out of paranoia that some guy is out to hurt me. But I want to challenge myself to give someone a chance. This guy may not be the one to do that with. But I just don't want to give up so easily and be so paranoid again. I could have the relationship as casual because I am not ready for intimacy. I'll see what my therapist says. Shouldn't she have noticed by now that I'm BPD? I've been seeing her since June. My previous therapist didn't see it, even though she was very good for me.

[mea_M]

Hi Pearl and welcome. You've come to a great place. :-) I'm sorry to read of you're struggles. I totally can relate to being at a low point in my life with loads of selfoathing and anxeity. Mine was mainly do to an underlying disease. Extremely tough time in my life. I assume a therapist gave you the diagnosis of BPD? If so at best you know what your facing and how to treat it. Half the battle is won right there. I'd say keep on top of the BPD, continue with therapy and express yourself here. Take pride in any little steps you make in the right direction. Often enough, major change does not occur overnight. You can get there. I'm rooting for you.

 

Mea :-)

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Shouldn't she have noticed by now that I'm BPD? I've been seeing her since June. My previous therapist didn't see it, even though she was very good for me.

 

If BPD is indeed what you have, I am not surprised it went unnoticed.

 

BPD doesn't always come out into the open. That's why regular therapy is ineffective at treating BPD. It's very easy to hide it depending on what situation you are in.

 

I've seen therapists who were limited by the knowledge they were taught. Like they really can't conceive how any other explanation besides the one they were taught could be right.

 

I went to therapist after therapist. Psychiatrist after psychiatrist...

I was diagnosed BPD but I was never fully diagnosed with my co-morbid disorders. None of them knew how to help me because none of them understood what was wrong with me. Years wasted on ineffective therapy that ultimately turned me against seeking therapy. I'm only now opening to the idea of getting the right kind.

 

I had to do my own research, become super introspective and diagnose myself. It was not an overnight thing. It took many years of confusion until I was ready to accept certain information and learn from it.

 

Psychology, right now, is incomplete and some theories cannot yet be proven. There is a lot of chicken and egg type discussion, some of which I talked about earlier.

 

I think it's better to be open minded than anything.