My fiance and I keep trying, and keep fighting...I am SO sad

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by moimeme

I suggest you read up some sites on coping with people with illnesses and maybe attend a class or two. That anger is a problem for the non-ill person is well-known and very common. And nothing is gained by making that person the guilty party. Both are suffering because of the situation and both need help to cope.

 

It's ironic that you say this, since I worked at a mental hospital with men who had severe and persistent mental illnesses - schizophrenia, severe bipolar mood disorder, and personality disorders - antisocial and borderline, both of which respond poorly to intervention and usually require an extended period of in-hospital treatment. I also have a teeny bit of experience treating mental illnesses because I'm in grad school for psychology and I've done a handful of practicums.

 

Ultimately it is up to you, think, to do what you consider best for your situation. I wish you the best of luck. I just can't stand by and not say anything when I suspect abuse. Because I stayed in my situation for too long making excuses and a good friend of mine was almost killed by my ex. And I never would have guessed that he would do such a thing, it was, for him, a "moment of uncontrollable rage."

 

Isn't there ever a time when you sit back and say, maybe we are two people with fundamentally different needs that aren't being met by each other? it's easy to get caught up in the dance.

 

 

I don't think it's fair to expect Bunnyboy to have to be the person to make the change. Somehow the assumption is that he isn't suffering and all he needs to do is get a grip, but from all Thinkalot has said, he's quite stressed because of a lot of work and that is as hard on the system as depression or other conditions.

 

It's impossible for change to occur in an individual if the impulse does not come from within themselves. I don't think he "needs to get a grip" - he needs treatment in and of itself. But it makes no sense to keep trying to fix a problem the same way over and over again if you see no results or improvement.

 

Is it still a relationship if you spend all your time talking about "the relationship"? - or is that compulsion in and of itself?

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by moimeme

 

And in the heat of the moment, both of you focus on YOUR wants rather than on your partner's needs. And so long as both of you remain locked in a power struggle where each is fighting to get what he wants - even at the expense of the other - you two aren't going to defeat this.

 

 

Yes, that's the thing I do realise, and the thing which can be so hard to do. Sometimes I do successfully do this, and it has a wonderful result...that being that in time, I then get what I want too. He is happy I have done whatever he needed/wanted at the time, and then he seems able to do what I want him to do.

 

It can be so hard in the heat of the moment though. He comes home expecting one thing from me, and I am expecting another thing from him. Both of us think the expectation is small and reasonable, and when it's not met, it seems unreasonable on the part of the other. Anger follows.

 

Isn't there ever a time when you sit back and say, maybe we are two people with fundamentally different needs that aren't being met by each other? it's easy to get caught up in the dance

 

Well yes, we have asked ourselves that before, more than once. We have wondered if there is some basic difference in our needs which will always cause friction. It's possible. Then again, I imagine ANY man would be frustrated living with someone with OCD. It's true though, there would be those out there with more patience for it, or a more easy going nature than my man. And there would be more easy going women out there for him too.

 

How likely the relationship is to survive depends entirely on how the partners react to the condition and how well it's controlled in the long term. His reaction exacerbates the insecurity which is the driver of the problem in the first place. He has to learn to control this reaction or you will never find a way to live together in peace.

 

well, here's hoping we will keep learning and improving meanon. bunnyboy says he doesn't feel like reading any more LS advice...he says that if it helps me, well and good. he wants a breather from relationship talk for the moment i think, and says he will come with me to the counselling as much as he needs to, and will take on board any advice given there. He said he's positive we can work through it. I am worried still, but am trying not to dwell on it at home too much, because it tends to make the problem worse, whereas just living and enjoying life together, helps things calm down.

 

 

 

What I was trying to say was if you are in therapy now then you should not get married because it will be 10x worse once you get married.

 

but that assumes that therapy never works, or helps, when in fact it can help people get ready for marriage.

[Thinkalot]

P.S. just getting on with getting on, and doing our best to fix things, is hard for me, because I am worried about us, and still carry the wounds of past battles. But short of giving up, or letting the worry/pld hurts overtake me/us, it seems the best thing. Otherwise the damage caused by our fights so far, will indeed prove to be a hurdle almost too big to jump. I am aware that to succeed, we need to let a lot go, in addition to improving our current behaviours.

 

Mum chatted to us both a little at xmas, having lived with my dad for some years and dealing with his ocd. He refused any help, and they ended up divorcing. But she has some insights which I think help us.

 

Reading LS right now is confronting, because it really puts it in my face. Then I go home, and have to try and not carry the worry reading the responses here often provokes! I think I need to just take on the advice for what it is, and then not let worry over the future way to heavily.

 

Thanks friends.

[meanon]

I think you both need to change. Your condition will improve with time and become much more manageable, Thinkalot, I'm sure of that. Treating OCD is like a journey, it takes time to find what works best but the success rate is high for those committed to treatment and you have a great deal of insight too.

 

Bunnyboy has to change too. It's not a question of blame or what's fair. Your reactions as individuals are understandable. The anger is his responsibility to resolve. It has to be, only he can change the reaction. It's caused in part by your condition and in part as that is his natural response when under extreme stress. He may learn to change that response if he is as deeply committed to doing so as you are to controlling your OCD. He deserves your support as surely as he's given you his over the years.

 

You are both so committed to each other and open to new ideas and approaches. It helps to have a clear goals to focus on, ones which are within your control. You are actively pursuing solutions you can use to help give you both some respite. Expect the same of him, Thinkalot. It's much more likely to happen if you do. Going along to the counselling is a great idea. Neither of you are there yet (in my view) in terms of seeing his anger as a threat to the relationship in it's own right, one which is his responsibility to resolve. Focusing on the fact that it's caused by your behaviour does not help, it hinders.

 

Trust your instincts, Thinkalot, don't worry unnecessarily. Some advice you get will not fit you as a couple and will be of little help. That comes with the territory, try and ignore it. Some may be confrontational but may help you come to terms with the reality of what is happening and that may help you fix things and/or stay safe. I know you've found LS a great source of support and comfort in the past. At other times, it's given you too much scope for worrying about the relationship. You are in a very worrying situation, one that I feel it's important you talk to people about, if not here then elsewhere. Not only will it help you deal with your reactions, it may help you identify (with your psych or bunnyboy) some practical approaches that may help you both. Worry about the past or future is pointless, try and deal with it as you would any other unwanted worry and concentrate on the here and now. Getting on with getting on is so important too. You need the day to day love and pleasure in each others company to make the difficult times worth enduring.

 

Hugs to you, Thinkalot

[Thinkalot]

Hugs back, and a big THANK YOU for your support and friendship, as usual.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Thinkalot

but that assumes that therapy never works, or helps, when in fact it can help people get ready for marriage.

 

I knew a couple that was in therapy before marriage for about six months. Their marriage lasted about....six months.

[Thinkalot]

No doubt there are many such cases, just as there are many instances where it goes the other way. I know you are trying to warn me from walking into a minefield, but my eyes are open, and hope continues to spring within me.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Thinkalot

No doubt there are many such cases, just as there are many instances where it goes the other way. I know you are trying to warn me from walking into a minefield, but my eyes are open, and hope continues to spring within me.

 

hope always springs eternal THINK-A-LOT. but my experience has shown that most situations like this deteoriate as time goes by.

 

you may have a chance but it is a big gamble.

[moimeme]

People who become bitter and cynical always insist their view of things is the most accurate. People like to believe that theirs is the objective opinion and often more so if their opinion is negatively biased. I certainly would not take relationship advice from someone who counsels men to act like jerks because that's 'what women want'.

[Thinkalot]

Originally posted by moimeme

I certainly would not take relationship advice from someone who counsels men to act like jerks because that's 'what women want'.

 

lol. I have seen you give such advice alphamale.

 

Just because in 'your experience' you've seen that happen, does not mean it will happen in this case. And noone can really measure how big a gamble this is. Not even my fiance and I.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by moimeme

People who become bitter and cynical always insist their view of things is the most accurate. People like to believe that theirs is the objective opinion and often more so if their opinion is negatively biased. I certainly would not take relationship advice from someone who counsels men to act like jerks because that's 'what women want'.

 

my opinions are based in reality and what I have experienced myself and seen others go thru.

[Thinkalot]

Life is full of risks and dissapointments...and also success stories and happiness.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by Thinkalot

Life is full of risks and dissapointments...and also success stories and happiness.

 

sure it is...i wish both of you the best of luck then.

[Thinkalot]

thank you. I know we have a lot of work to do.

[guest]

I would not stay one minute longer with someone who talks to me the way he does to you. There is NO excuse for it and it IS abuse.

[Thinkalot]

Maybe not an excuse, or a way to say it is ever acceptable, no.

But there are reasons, and a context to look at. Sure, it may not be a healthy dynamic, which is why we are trying to fix it. But you need to look at all the factors going on here, and understand this is a person who never had an anger problem before trying to deal (albeit not very well) with my condition. It takes change on BOTH our parts to fix this... Please trying and think of it that way before making a quick judgement. I am not simply accepting his behaviour as right, but neither is he accepting mine. That's why we are in the process of making changes.

 

I know that's what this board is for. For opinions to be honestly expressed.

It's just hard, because sometimes I need to vent, and express my hurt and upset and worry. So I do. I really want comfort, constructive advice on things we can do, advice on things I can do etc. It's hard when people simply say, 'leave him', when the whole situation is often not considered, and when we are in the process of seeing a psych together, who is also across the situation, and is trying to help us handle things together successfully. I realise all advice is given with the best of intention.

 

But while leaving each other may be something which we need to do IF NOTHING IMPROVES OR CHANGES in the coming months, it's not something we want to do right now. We want to be together, and to work on things. We love each other and we want to get married.

 

My man has been more relaxed this week as he's had time off work, and the change is so noticeable, which makes me realise how much stress work does place on him. It also makes me realise I probably could do more to support him in that sense, even by giving him space to breathe when he comes home from work. He has also been very sweet and hopeful about us, and been doing so many jobs at home, along with getting all meals etc, as I've been working. We've even diverted a few potential arguments, by both doing things we are supposed to do.

 

I don't know any of you in person. Some of you I have developed a friendship with, over the year and a bit I have been a member on here. I suppose I'd like to think you'd all join Johan in saying...

 

Hey, Think. I'm still pulling for you two... Try to have faith that you're making progress toward something better. I believe you are

 

[guest]

But how much longer do you give him it? I mean, hasn't this been going on for a LONG time already? When is enough enough? Every time he verbally abuses you more damage is done to the relationship. Do you really think either of you will be able to erase what has already happened and continues to happen on a regular basis? Either way, I would advise you not to get married anytime soon. It would be a huge mistake.

[FolderWife]

Have you read men are from Mars Women are from Venus?

 

I recently got it, and I'm reading it right now. There's a passage that talks about how men and women handle stress differently.

 

Women want to talk talk talk talk talk about everything that's stressing them, until they feel UNDERSTOOD.

 

Men "Go into their cave" or get quiet, and don't talk. They sit and mull over the thing causing them stress, until they come up with a productive solution, or AT LEAST calm down. An Indian had an analagy that "When an Indian girl marries, she is told that when her husband goes into his cave, not to follow him into the cave, or the dragon that guards the cave will burn her". This is TRUE!

 

My husband will flat out tell me to leave him alone. He'll shut down. I'll be frantic, because I want to talk, because I'm upset, and he'll be in his cave, because he's upset as well. If I push, and try to follow him into the cave to talk to him, this angry, uncontrollable, HORRIBLE monster comes out of him. It'll scream profanities at me, sometimes it'll throw something *not at me...usually at the floor* to shut me up, I'll hear a threat or two once in a while...until I run scared.

 

Then, he has to apologize for his abusive behavior, and I have a memory of his abuse to live with.

 

That's not good.

 

When you two get stressed, take a breather. Let him mull over it. Let him calm down. Then bring your problem to him.

 

I wait until my man is in a good mood...or an apologetic mood...to bring up any problems that I have.

 

Just get the blame book and read it, and if you already have it, start reading it again. There's so much stuff in there, that next Christmas, I'm going to buy it for all of my girlfriends.

 

It's AWESOME! I think that once I finish it, I'm just going to continue to read it over and over again, so I don't forget.

[Thinkalot]

Thanks Monday. We have men are from mars, and I know what you are saying.

 

We realise the bad patterns we can get into.

 

The past week and a half, has been great. We've both tried to uphold our end of the bargain, and it's been working well. My fiance asked me what I'd been doing differently. I said, not much, just trying to be more loving and understanding, which has been easy, because you've been so loving!

I asked what HE'D been doing, and he said, just trying to respond with love, instead of anger. Which has been easy, because YOU'VE been so loving.

 

So please, all pray that this will continue in a positive cycle for us...where bumps get negotiated before they escalate into open warfare.

 

and guest- it isn't regular..it's been on and off for too long, perhaps, yes. But again I say, there is a context, and I am not simply accepting this behaviour...we are doing things to fix it. I appreciate your concern though.

[disheartened]

hi. i wish u all the best in your efforts to make it work with your bf.

[Thinkalot]

Thank you. I am happy to say things seem to be going from strength to strength.