Christmas is over and I did survive emotionally intact!

[debs]

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It is after 0100 and I survived the first Christmas alone since my divorce!

 

GreenCap, you said something that hit a reality nerve in my thoughts!

We do live our lives wrong when in love, I did live a life through him!

Now my life is my own! I have my gorgeous 26yr old daughter and her family even though they live in Dallas, TAX, and my close friends and co-workers!

 

Christmas Eve at the hospital was far from "fun"! All I really wanted to do was just go home a crawl in the bed and just sleep! I didn't!!! I worked right through it and survived it! I felt down and blue but I kept telling myself; "Tomorrow it will all be over!" And yes the blues have passed!

 

The hardest reality was the fact over the last 4 years he had been in the back ground whether in my physical presence or when we lived 4400 miles apart, he was a constant! And you know? He no longer isn't! And it is OK!

 

I finally got angry and said If he dares call I am going to blast him with everything I have! Which I have never done thus far to date!

 

I ran into her ex at work, Friday and he is doing great! His new girlfriend (Emily)is a definite improvement over his ex-wife! Word is his ex and my ex are talking marriage I said GREAT! They deserve to be happy, he said oh but a twist, her alcoholic mother moved in! I nearly fell over laughing! I said good luck to all 3 of them then!!!

 

So now I am thinking I did the right thing by allowing him to go to this OW! I am free of his BS! and job hopping! I am free of his ideosyncries! Immature Asian ass he is! I see him for who he truly is now and I am so much better for it!

 

I hope some of you have come to terms and yes there will be days to come I will remember things but the happy memories! I lived through all the betrayal and lies!

 

NC works and I practice it faithfully!

 

Let me hear if any of you have come to grips with your situations! I have allot of you on LS to be thankful to as well, all the posts have been eye openers and helped me in ways no one could before!!!

 

I have and now I can say near 10 months later I am so relieved! I woke up after being in a fog for the past 10 months and it is OK now!!!!!THANK YOU !!! THANK YOU for all the help in your posts on here about coping and infidelity!

[iceisles]

I'm sorry to say that I had a rougher time, bordering on a mental meltdown. This was my fault, though, because I temporarily suspended NC to open up a final window of opportunity for her during the holidays. Despite some nice e-mails, a Christmas card, and two small gifts, my ex ignored me like I didn't exist. I was VERY hurt that she didn't call to say Merry Christmas or thank me for the gifts, but what did I expect? Maybe I thought the spirit of Christmas would make her want to reconcile and work on a friendship. Man, was I wrong. How could I have been so stupid? Oh, well. I know I am strong enough to go back to NC, which is what I'm doing again. It's not like I didn't try to put our differences aside in the spirit of the season. Maybe one day she will reflect on just how poorly she treated me this holiday.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by iceisles

I'm sorry to say that I had a rougher time, bordering on a mental meltdown. This was my fault, though, because I temporarily suspended NC to open up a final window of opportunity for her during the holidays. Despite some nice e-mails, a Christmas card, and two small gifts, my ex ignored me like I didn't exist. I was VERY hurt that she didn't call to say Merry Christmas or thank me for the gifts, but what did I expect? Maybe I thought the spirit of Christmas would make her want to reconcile and work on a friendship. Man, was I wrong. How could I have been so stupid? Oh, well. I know I am strong enough to go back to NC, which is what I'm doing again. It's not like I didn't try to put our differences aside in the spirit of the season. Maybe one day she will reflect on just how poorly she treated me this holiday.

 

I believe many people advised you against breaking NC and you went ahead and did it anyways.

 

The rule is...whomever breaks NC first loses.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by alphamale

I believe many people advised you against breaking NC and you went ahead and did it anyways.

 

The rule is...whomever breaks NC first loses.

 

Well, prior to me breaking NC, she was contacting me every few weeks and being friendly, so technically she's the one who broke it first. I thought it was a nice gesture to try and pass along a message of "no hard feelings" during Christmas. My plan backfired, and do I regret doing this? Probably. But I did do some nice things for someone during the holidays, and even if they weren''t reciprocated, that's what the season is about. I'll just reset my NC counter and start over again. Look at it this way, aside from getting ticked for a day, is my situation really any worse for the wear?

[alphamale]

Originally posted by iceisles

I'll just reset my NC counter and start over again. Look at it this way, aside from getting ticked for a day, is my situation really any worse for the wear?

 

No, it is not any worse, but it's not better either.

[iceisles]

Originally posted by alphamale

No, it is not any worse, but it's not better either.

 

No at the present time. But maybe one of these years she will look back and realize that I wasn't such a bad guy. I won't wait around for that day to come, but it would be nice to be remembered in a positive light.

[debs]

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Ice, I am sorry for your disappointment...........

 

But I learned this top be true why bother?

Rejection is the most hurting thing any of us can experience!!

 

You attempted in good faith so now it is time to just let it go!

 

I sometimes wondered if it is morbid curiosity or true caring as to why we try to keep contact?! In my case it was true caring but after a while it is like OK why do I even care? He doesn't so I let it go! He has what he wanted, this was his choice and let him be happy!!

 

I months ago expressed this not only to him but to his family and his skank. He is happy, celebrate that he found happiness! Will it last, I am not a fortune teller. Who knows but for now allow the man to be happy!

 

I only know I am not going to waste anymore time plodding through it and feeling betrayed or hurt. It is over and time to haul up the stakes and move on!

[Urban Rubble01]

Here's my depressing holiday story, form another thread. A little background, my ex and I have been "on a break" since Sept 15th. She still claims to love me, says she knows we'll be back together. We talk about once every 2 weeks or so and we've hung out about 5 times in the 14 weeks we've been apart. I still feel the same, she seems to. When we're together it's great, just like normal. She's been pretty good to me over the break and I feel like she's been honest with me about her feelings and intentions for this break. She says it's about focusing on her last year of school and seeing what it's like to be alot, it has nothing to do with seeing other guys or loving me any less.

 

 

 

My holidays were good, but bad at the same time. The night before Christmas Eve the ex called and asked what I wanted to eat, she was coming into town and she was picking up something for us to eat. Cool. So we ate in my room, hung out and talked. For the rest of the night we just hung out like the old days, sat on my bed and watched TV, had a really good time just like usual. And yeah, we had sex.

 

The next day we went to the mall. Again, just like the old days, we laughed and had SO much fun. She had to go home and eat with the parents so she said she'd stop by later. Well, she did and we just hung out like normal, again. So Christmas comes, I called her around noon to ask if she wanted to come pick up the little present I got her. She said she would, but it'd be later as she had family stuff. So the day passes, no call, I ended up going to the movies at 7:00. She didn't call my cell phone during the movie, but I got home and her name was on my caller I.D. So I call her, she tells me she had to go back up to the city because her work called and they needd her the next day. She said we should make plans later in the week to exchange our gifts. Fine, whatever, I don't know why she didn't call the cell, but whatever. So we talked for awhile, I was feeling pretty down and couldn't hang up. Normally when she can tell I'm feeling down, she reassures me it'll work out, tells me she loves me and all that. She did that some, but not much, it was a little weird. So as we're talking I hear her go "Are you leaving?" I asked "Who was that?" she said "A friend". I ask "A guy?" "Yeah". So I didn't even ask any questions, I said I'll talk to you later and she said she'll call me tomorrow (today) after work. She sounded all embarassed, probably because she just got done telling me everything would be fine.

 

So this is my dilema: Now, we're broken up, but she constantly reminds me that it's just a break. She has every right to be haning out with guys, dating guys, whatever. But she doesn't have the right to hide it from me. But the one thing I've asked her to do is to be honest with me, actually, last night as we were talking I said "If you care about me at all, you've got to be honest regardless of if it hurts me". Her response was "O.K, but there's nothing to tell". All I want is honesty and I think I deserve to be told if she's hanging out with other guys. I don't even know who it was, it may have been just a friend. But still, it hurts that someone was sitting there as I'm talking her like that and it hurts that she can't even tell me.

 

So what do I say when I talk to her ? I'm not looking to give her any ultimatums or get pissed and yell at her, but I am pretty angry and I want to let her know I'm serious. I just want answers, she constantly tells me she loves me as much as she always has and that we're so perfect together, there's no way it won't work out. But at the same time, she's hanging out with this guy. Am I dumb to believe that she sees it working out ?

 

Ugghh, I feel like that first week all over again. Which is idiotic because I know I'm in a better position with my ex than alot of people. I guess this is the risk of accepting a "break". If I had said no, I won't wait, yo'ure out of my life, that would kill me, but at least it would be steady, none of this feeling great and then being dropped back down.

[debs]

Now you see why I do not converse with my exH!!

 

I will not allow that man to ever hurt me ever again. He hurt me enough for a lifetime!

 

No contact is best after a break-up! If you continue the contact all it does is pick you up and then fires you onto your butt! I care not to experience an emotional roller coaster ride like that again!

 

Whether it be a marriage or a relationship, no contact works! If it is meant for you to be together then it will happen, if not time to just as I say "pull up stakes" and move on with your life!

[iceisles]

Originally posted by debs

Whether it be a marriage or a relationship, no contact works! If it is meant for you to be together then it will happen, if not time to just as I say "pull up stakes" and move on with your life!

 

This is true. No contact isn't fun, but you will feel better after awhile. If my ex really cared about me, she would be calling. Why would you want to put so much effort into someone who won't reciprocate it? A broken heart remains fragile for some time, thus distancing yourself from that trauma seems like the only logical choice.

[indigo_moon]

Debs, check your Private Message Inbox here! :-)

[debs]

ROFL!!! sorry but Ice you tickled me so much!

 

Your right if they cared, they would be with you and not the other person!!!!

If they cared and was ernest in the relationshipe we never would be the heartbroken people in the world!

 

Do they care? Not in a genuine sense of the word! Curious and gulity for the breakup is more like it in my book!

[debs]

 

I did and replied roflmaooooooooooooooo damned indigo we should talk more we have the same thinking! I am rofl!! And yes anyone can PM me anytime i am just piddling around the apt today!

[UnicornGirl]

Urban, I think your "acceptance" of the break is not something to mourn or regret. I fall into that trap a lot myself, remembering good times I've had with my ex since we broke it off and wondering what I did to make him stop acting that way toward me. I feel like something's changed -- maybe it has, maybe it hasn't with him -- but something has changed in me, changed my perception of the situation. I think that's really it. I don't know if that makes any sense. Anyway.

 

She is treating you HORRIBLY. You're right in that you're in an OK situation, considering what "could've been." You're focusing on the positives, which is good to some extent. The trap you need to avoid is not facing reality -- and that reality is that she is treating you HORRIBLY! Now accept that fact in full. Only after you accept that can you focus on the positive.

 

You need to try to stop thinking about her very often, and you need to remind yourself CONSTANTLY that you are acting with a noble maturity that your ex is NOT. The odds are that if you continue this way you will constantly get more and more "screwed over" as time goes on, and that she WON'T want to be with you. Face that, then focus on the positives -- she could come back, or you could enjoy singledom, or you could meet someone fabulous 2 years down the road, so fabulous that had you known you would have thrown this girl a going away party.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you should admit that you are not being treated well. Mourn the loss of your girlfriend and all the sweet and decent behavior that tread carefully with her. My advice is not to sleep with her without commitment, and don't expect your physical relationship to breed an emotional one. They're two separate things 99% of the time, especially without commitment.

 

I have seen in a lot of your posts a certain pattern: You feel upset about your situation with your girlfriend, you come here for reassurance and to talk about it, and then you talk to her about it. She tells you not to listen to this advice because everything is fine and what we say is wrong. But what she's also saying THROUGH saying that is that your feelings are wrong. And your feelings are NEVER wrong.

 

I suggest you stop giving a damn about what she thinks about the situation. She's being an immature, cowardly little girl right now, from what I've heard about her behavior. She's being evasive, indecisive, and using you as a crutch, whether she realizes it or not, and is reminding me a lot of my own, though male, ex. You need to focus on YOU and YOUR LIFE because, at least for now, she is not a positive part of your life.

 

It's admirable that you understand how she's feeling and love her and accomodate her desires. However, it is MANIPULATIVE to not stand up for yourself, and it will impede the potential for a committed relationship between you two. Don't accept mistreatment in hopes of gaining her favor. Stand up for yourself by focusing on yourself and not "taking it" so often.

 

How do you feel about sleeping with her without commitment? Not good? Tell her. You might say, Hey, I respect how you feel and why you're indecisive, but I know you're a better person than that. Sleeping with me without commitment is not okay. (Unless it is.) I think her sleeping with you sans commitment shows a deep disrespect and some personal issues -- "break" or no "break." I hate to tell you but a lot of my female friends who are afraid of being "without a man" have pulled these kind of shenanigans with guys they have no intention of ever being with again.

 

Here's a good test that I use sometimes: Think about how your ex would have reacted had you pulled this deal on her. The image that comes to your mind probably isn't a positive one. Thinking about might help you get a clearer picture of the emotional intelligence of this girl.

 

I hope all that I've said isn't offensive or preachy, it's just my impression of what you've written, and hopefully something in there will help. We're in kind of similar situations, and the same time frame -- my breakup was 9/6. Hope something can help you and I really admire the way you're dealing with your situation.

 

And debs, didn't mean to steal the thread. Congratulations on your new attitude, I like it.

[Urban Rubble01]

Yeah debs, I really didn't mean to hijack the thread, I'm just feeling crazy right now and I need people to talk to.

 

First off Unicorn, as far as sleeping together. Well, it was my idea. See, the reasons she's given me that she doesn't initiate contact is because she doesn't want to give me mixed signals, I thought that was a pretty respectable reason, I feel like it shows she cares. Now, it's the same with the sex. Before we did it we talked, she said she knows we both want to do it but that she's scared of me getting mixed signals. I told her that I know our situation, if we have sex it isn't going to make me think we're getting back together. I know that her having sex with me isn't a sign that she wants me back. So from what I can tell, that whole thing is fine. So, I can understand you thinking she's being disrespectful or selfish, but her being concerned makes me feel like she does actually care, is that naive of me ?

 

So your female friends that have pulled this kind of thing, are they so callous that they tell the guy they still love them and that they know they're going to be back together ? If so, that's scary.

 

Can I ask, what makes you say she treats me horribly ? I mean, I don't think she's doing everything she could be, but I also don't feel like she's treating me so bad (god, I sound so naive). I really do consider myself an objective guy, I don't feel like she's done anything all that bad. If it turns out she's been lying and she has no intention of getting back with me that's a whole different story. I'm not disagreeing, I just think it would help to see it in your words what you feel she's doing.

 

It's not that she tells me everyone's advice is wrong. She just tells me that they don't know us and (in her words) how perfect we are for each other. She knows how neurotic I am and she tells me not to over analyze her signs and what she tells me, just to trust her when she says she loves me. Damn, that's like what Pol Pot tells you before he sends you to the killing fields.

 

Do you really think I'm "taking it" ? In what sense ? Again, not disagreeing, I just need clarity. I haven't argued with her or anything, you're right, but I haven't had much of a reason. The only thing I can see is her not calling unless I do first, but her reason for that seemed rational (at least to my irrational ass).

 

What you said isn't preachy at all, it brings tears to my eyes, but that's good. I need as much advice and as many viewpoints as possible on this. I'm only 22, I've never been in love and I don't want to be ever again. I don't even want her back right now, I'm fine with this break, I just want to know it's going to happen in the future, which is impossible to tell.

 

We're supposed to talk tonight and I think I need to figure out whether this guy was just a friend or what, and if not, if she's looking for other guys or just going out and having fun. If she is "exploring" and "not sure" then she has lied, if she's just dating other guys for fun then I can't be angry at that, can I ? Aside from that, what do you think my course of action should be ? Do you think I'm wrong to continue with hanging out and all that ?

 

Anyway, thanks for the response, sorry for asking all this additional crap. Deb, sorry about the hijacking, if you want me to take it to PM just say so. Good on you for busting ass on Christmas and not getting depressed, I wish I had your strength.

[debs]

NP I am ok with your lol "high Jacking"

 

*sigh* my strength...I have arrived at this from many past mistakes with relationships. It just takes time, to learn and heal!

 

But know we are here for you just let us know!

[UnicornGirl]

So, I can understand you thinking she's being disrespectful or selfish, but her being concerned makes me feel like she does actually care, is that naive of me ?

 

OK. Understanding that you initiated things physically sheds a different light on the situation. Are you really OK with that? To me that seems like an incredibly painful situation—to be sleeping with someone that doesn’t want to be with you.

 

It’s not NICE of her to care – it’s human. She wants to have sex with you, no strings attached, and she’s making that clear to you so her ass is covered if something goes wrong.

 

So your female friends that have pulled this kind of thing, are they so callous that they tell the guy they still love them and that they know they're going to be back together ? If so, that's scary.

 

I have friends in the age range of your girlfriend, mid-20s, who have done similar things—“I love you,” “We’ll be together once I have the space I need,” the whole shebang, and then totally screwed the guy over -- at least from the guy's perspective. Both men and women can be very confused at this stage in our lives and do pretty messed up things -- what's worse is that they FEEL BAD about it, which causes them to try to make up for their own immaturity and behavior by taking breaks, saying they've changed, anything to make themselves look less bad. I have one friend who recently told her boyfriend of two years that she loved him and would like to be with him later in life when she’s done with college. She told me she said this because she “didn’t want to hurt his feelings” and has no intention of ever being with him again unless some kind of miriacle happens ... but she doesn't want to give him up COMPLETELY -- 'cause every girl loves being adored by a loser that can never attain them. It's like being a Greek goddess with mortals obsessing over your beautiful image in the clouds from the muddy earth below. I of course told her that was irresponsible crap and not to do that. She called him and made things clear to him. He's doing much better now, WAY better than if she'd done a "break" type deal. They might even get back together someday, now that they have an established equality and mutual respect.

 

The best way to take a "break" or "break up" or any of these states of not being together, temporary or permanent, is to just be honest and say it's not working out. But it's scary for people, especially when they are young and confused, to know how to do that. It requires a formidable emotional intelligence that most people just do not have.

 

My ex told me almost exactly what your ex told you, gave me all kinds of promises about spending our birthdays together (and then cancelled at the last minute), and then when I brought up the fact that I loved him two months later, he said he’d changed his mind completely, he didn't know what he wanted then and was in a different mindset when he told me he wanted to be together long-term, and was 100% sure he didn’t want to be with me "right now." Happy to have it over with, I said, “OK, so we’re never going to be together again. I can deal with that,” in a happy voice -- and he promptly freaked out, insisting that’s not what he said, that the technical difference is very obvious, etc. Emotional BS is what I call that.

 

Anyway.

 

I am NOT saying what my girlfriends have done is what your girlfriend is doing. But don’t rule it out. You need to think of yourself first, not your relationship, because no relationship is more important than you. Especially when you two don’t even have a defined relationship right now!

 

Yes, it is scary. Yes, it could happen to you. Yes, it could NOT happen to you. You guys could have a marvelous lovely break and then get back together smoothly and be super happy. (Again, I don't know you, but I wouldn't bet a grand sum on that happening since the psychological damage on your part is building up so high that getting back together WILL NOT solve all your problems. The getting back together might be a little bumpy -- that's my guess.) But the fact is you just don’t know. Of course you love each other -- that's obvious. But love does not always equal relationship. Being perfect for each other doesn't even always equal relationship!

 

From my experience with friends and their relationships in early to mid 20s, girls don’t like to make a guys that truly love them, like you (which is a RARE thing for a girl to have!) feel bad. They like to tone it down, not be the bully, not hurt them, break it to them gently. They also don’t like to chuck a guy and make him hate her if they think they might want to be with them later. They dont' want to say "let's break up for now," they want to say "I'm not sure" and see the guy kill himself and act like a fool.

 

(If the guy had some self-respect and said (or got the message across somehow): "Love you hon, but I'm not a brokenhearted swoony teenager, I'm a man with a wonderful life of my own and lots of pretty women to meet" with no resentment and a big, happy grin, these goddess-complexed women would be running back to them like Olympic sprinters.

 

Can I ask, what makes you say she treats me horribly ? I mean, I don't think she's doing everything she could be, but I also don't feel like she's treating me so bad (god, I sound so naive). I really do consider myself an objective guy, I don't feel like she's done anything all that bad. If it turns out she's been lying and she has no intention of getting back with me that's a whole different story. I'm not disagreeing, I just think it would help to see it in your words what you feel she's doing.

 

I think the girl is confused. And I do think she’s treating you badly. You’re up and down, back and forth with your feelings about this, and you’re kind of sitting around, waiting to get back together. It’s making you feel sad, lonely, upset, et cetera, right? In my opinion, her confused feelings are causing her to treat you in a way that is a quite immature – sleeping with you only if you don’t get any ideas, the leaving town thing, hiding aspects of her life from you.

 

She seems to want the best of both worlds—it’s like she can be confident she HAS you, but she doesn’t have to be with you. That’s usually called using someone or taking advantage of someone or “walking all over them.”

 

What you have to keep in mind is that she is very powerful in this situation. She decides whether you’re on a break, she decides whether you’re back together. You don’t have a say. Keep in mind that she is also 100% OFF THE HOOK if she does things that in a confined relationship would have been considered cheating, lying, disrespectful, out of line. She doesn’t have to respect your feelings, because she’s not with you.

 

I’m not saying you should hate her or be angry with her or feel horrible. I only think you should acknowledge the negative AND positive sides of your situation in full.

 

I guess what confuses me the most is the “status” of your relationship. What she says doesn’t seem to equate with what’s going on – in some ways it seems like you two still have a relationship . . . why didn’t you two just change certain aspects of your relationship rather than have a “break?” Why didn’t you talk about maybe having an open relationship, with a serious long-term commitment but freedom to be with other people casually?

 

One question to ask is – yes, she says she sees you all getting back together. But is she COMMITTED to getting back together? Even if she is, can you trust 100% that she will keep her commitment? You can’t expect others to keep their commitments all of the time. Feelings change, emotions change, perspectives change. I may be biased, because my ex of 3.5 years did a complete 180 on me – came to stay for the weekend all snuggly and happy, called me his beautiful fiancee, all is peachy, and then in a matter of hours dropped me. Why did he do this? Because he was CONFUSED. He still is confused. People get confused.

 

It’s not that I think she has NO intention of getting back together with you. That would be utterly bizarre. Why would she waste her time with you if she didn’t have feelings for you? I just think she is CONFUSED. And you can’t count on anyone, male or female, when they’re confused and you’re 100% clear.

 

It's not that she tells me everyone's advice is wrong. She just tells me that they don't know us and (in her words) how perfect we are for each other. She knows how neurotic I am and she tells me not to over analyze her signs and what she tells me, just to trust her when she says she loves me. Damn, that's like what Pol Pot tells you before he sends you to the killing fields.

 

THIS is what I’m talking about when I say you are being treated horribly. It's your beautiful, sweet girlfriend in terms of vocal cords, but Pol Pot in terms of her actions. She says reassuring things, but does things that are anything BUT reassuring! Do her words match her actions? From what you’ve said, NO. This type of confused statement is dishonest. It is hurtful, damaging to any future relationship you could have with her, and psychological torture. It is similar to many things my ex has done to me. The ONLY way I have been able to get off the merry-go-round of emotions is to focus on ME. Then, whether he comes back or not, or whether a new guy comes along or not, I’ll be a better person. I’ll know myself and know how to deal with broken commitments and weird relationships. I will know that I can deal with something bad happening, even if it was GUARANTEED to me that the bad thing would never happen – my ex was totally committed to me, thought we were perfect together, introduced me to his extended family, talked about me to all his relatives, wanted to get married, acted like a long-term partner from very early on in the relationship. Now, he’s pulling this crap. The only way I’ve been able to deal with it is to get my butt in counseling, read some self-help books, develop lasting friendships, focus on ME. I don’t want to say my ex is yours, I’m trying to say that focusing on you is what’s important here.

 

Focusing on YOU will keep you from having these swinging emotions and free you from a state of confusion. If you give up on the relationship FOR NOW – say , “Maybe we’ll be together later, maybe she’ll come back into my life sometime, but not now” – you will feel better. It’s painful, but it’s necessary.

 

Do you really think I'm "taking it" ? In what sense ? Again, not disagreeing, I just need clarity. I haven't argued with her or anything, you're right, but I haven't had much of a reason. The only thing I can see is her not calling unless I do first, but her reason for that seemed rational (at least to my irrational ass). What you said isn't preachy at all, it brings tears to my eyes, but that's good. I need as much advice and as many viewpoints as possible on this. I'm only 22, I've never been in love and I don't want to be ever again. I don't even want her back right now, I'm fine with this break, I just want to know it's going to happen in the future, which is impossible to tell.

 

 

Why doesn’t she call you? My ex doesn’t call me. I stopped calling him. He doesn’t call me anymore. It was like every time I called, he had reassurance that I still loved him and would be with him at the drop of a hat.

 

You’re allowing the relationship to take precedence over your feelings. Does that help clarify? Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like you’re saying, “Well, it’s not that bad” quite often. Is that OK with you? To constantly excuse her behavior? Shouldn’t she be excusing her own behavior?

 

In my opinion, if you really want to be friends with someone, you call them. Even if you think they don’t want to talk to you. I don’t think my ex is serious about being friends. I figured, Hey, he’s going to continue in this state of odd behavior and denial, surrounded by a fog of “everything’s fine” unless I break contact with him. He’s been sending me weird e-mails about how he hopes to talk to me soon, but he never calls. It’s odd. I don’t understand it, and I’ve stopped trying to understand. ‘Cause hey, I’m attractive, and smart, and pretty damn funny, and interesting. I bet you’re a great guy in your own unique ways. I deserve REAL love, and so do you.

 

My opinion as of yet is that if this guy who wanted to get married and would never stop professing his undying love to me every second of the day is fine with not seeing me in over 8 weeks, not calling unless I call, and being in a perpetual state of “we might get back together sometime, I don’t know what could change my mind, but it’s possible, and I don’t make generalizations about what I’ll feel later” – IT’S NOT WORTH ME SPENDING ALL THIS TIME TRYING TO ANALYZE HIM!

 

I think you should stop analyzing. Your final analysis should be: She is confused. I love her to bits. But she is really freaking confused. And I have a life to attend to. She will have to be in the background for a while as I continue to live my awesome, exciting (and let me emphasize ONLY and VERY SHORT) life.

 

 

We're supposed to talk tonight and I think I need to figure out whether this guy was just a friend or what, and if not, if she's looking for other guys or just going out and having fun. If she is "exploring" and "not sure" then she has lied, if she's just dating other guys for fun then I can't be angry at that, can I ? Aside from that, what do you think my course of action should be ? Do you think I'm wrong to continue with hanging out and all that ?

 

You'll probably get this after you talk to her. So I can't really help you beforehand. But I think you should say, "Hey, are you dating other guys?" If she says yes, you can talk about it. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO -- DO NOT LOOK JEALOUS. Be jealous inside if you are (ick, I wouldn't be, those guys could end up as sad as you are one day!), but DO NOT SHOW IT. Do NOT look pouty. I don't think you will. You seem like a sensible guy, even if it's only in print. You seem to have proceeded in a very straightforward manner with her and that is excellent.

 

And hey, only hang out with people who make you feel good. If they don’t make you happy, don’t hang with ‘em. That’ll just kill your happiness. If you love spending time with her, spend time with her.

 

If it’s hurting you that she never calls you first, consider telling her, “Hey, I love you, and I enjoy spending time with you. But you never call, or bring up getting together, so maybe we shouldn’t see each other anymore.” That might re-establish some equality in your relationship. If you let her have all the power, you’re being manipulative. And that’s bad!

 

Some relationships are open, and each party can date other people for fun, as you said you wouldn’t blame her for. But are you dating other people for fun? Maybe you should try it out! You need to re-establish that you are equal to your semi-girlfriend. Because you are! Some equality-establishing situations like dating other people, having a great time without her, not spending every minute worrying about her can do that.

 

And I understand being 22 and first love and all of that. I am 19, in the same situation. Being young and in love can be very messed up. People do messed up things. People grow and change and become better people every day – well, some of us. If you really want to be with this girl I hope that it works out, and in no way am I trying to say it won’t. I’m not saying it won’t work out with my ex. The fact is we don’t know, and we can’t count on it, and our whole lives are ahead of us. Now is a time for you to focus on yourself. Stuff will all fall into place eventually, and you can’t control everything you wish you could.

 

Your girl is acting weird, and you just have to accept that. People are weird. I am weird myself. Maybe one day you will read this and say, "That girl was insane. Listening to her was the stupidest thing ever. I should have chucked my computer in the dumpster after reading her first sentence on this thread. What did she know? My girlfriend and I have the most perfect relationship in the world now that we're back together, and she was just trying to bring me down." I'm not trying to bring you down, rather I would like you to stand up for yourself and think about things. Who knows what will happen?

 

I read this somewhere: You are the only person you will have a daily relationship with for the rest of your life. The ONLY ONE! So if another relationship isn’t going the way you want it to, take a break from it. We’ve all got enough work to do as it is working on this long-term relationship with our own minds and bodies.

 

Anyway, thanks for the response, sorry for asking all this additional crap.

 

Stop apologizing!

[iceisles]

That was an outstanding post, UnicornGirl. Simply incredible.

[Urban Rubble01]

Wow Unicorn Girl, that was amazing, that really helped. I can't believe you're only 19, you're really mature. I had been thinking you were much older.

 

OK. Understanding that you initiated things physically sheds a different light on the situation. Are you really OK with that? To me that seems like an incredibly painful situation—to be sleeping with someone that doesn’t want to be with you.

 

Well, I'm most likely not going to be having sex with anyone else, I just figured that if we understand each other and where we're at there's no reason not to. I mean, hanging out with her at all is just as emotional as sex, so yeah, i guess I'm as O.K with that as anything else.

 

From my experience with friends and their relationships in early to mid 20s, girls don’t like to make a guys that truly love them, like you (which is a RARE thing for a girl to have!) feel bad. They like to tone it down, not be the bully, not hurt them, break it to them gently. They also don’t like to chuck a guy and make him hate her if they think they might want to be with them later. They dont' want to say "let's break up for now," they want to say "I'm not sure" and see the guy kill himself and act like a fool.

 

(If the guy had some self-respect and said (or got the message across somehow): "Love you hon, but I'm not a brokenhearted swoony teenager, I'm a man with a wonderful life of my own and lots of pretty women to meet" with no resentment and a big, happy grin, these goddess-complexed women would be running back to them like Olympic sprinters.

 

Yeah, and I've asked her repeatedly to be honest. I've laid out these exact scenarios to her, the girl who is so scared of hurting the guy that she lets him down gently even though that makes it worse, and she continues to tell me that isn't what she's doing. So I guess we're both right, she does love me, but she's just confused, she doesn't know what she wants.

 

Now, do you think there's a way to get the message across that you're moving on and "being a man" yet still maintain contact ? Like I've said, we've been best friends for 10 years or so, long before we were "together', so I truly do want her in my life whether or not we're together. Is there a way to show her that I'm kind of moving on yet still be in her life in a limited way like I have been ?

 

I will know that I can deal with something bad happening, even if it was GUARANTEED to me that the bad thing would never happen – my ex was totally committed to me, thought we were perfect together, introduced me to his extended family, talked about me to all his relatives, wanted to get married, acted like a long-term partner from very early on in the relationship. Now, he’s pulling this crap. The only way I’ve been able to deal with it is to get my butt in counseling, read some self-help books, develop lasting friendships, focus on ME. I don’t want to say my ex is yours, I’m trying to say that focusing on you is what’s important here.

 

Focusing on YOU will keep you from having these swinging emotions and free you from a state of confusion. If you give up on the relationship FOR NOW – say , “Maybe we’ll be together later, maybe she’ll come back into my life sometime, but not now” – you will feel better. It’s painful, but it’s necessary.

 

That's the same with us. We know each other's family. She's been on vacations to Georgia to meet my family. We're always being told we act like we're married already. We've always told each other it's only a matter of time before we're married and starting a family. It's weird, about 2 months after our breakup we were talking about my friend's kid and she still refered to it as "Our kids" when she was talking about having one someday. In april she wrote me the most beautiful letter, telling me that nothing in the world could be so bad that it would break us up. And now here we are.

 

But what you say about focusing on myself makes alot of sense. I just need to figure out how. I need to learn how I can put myself and my feelings ahead of a possible relationship with her. I'm just scared that I'm too willing to gamble and get hurt, I love her too much still.

 

You’re allowing the relationship to take precedence over your feelings. Does that help clarify? Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems like you’re saying, “Well, it’s not that bad” quite often. Is that OK with you? To constantly excuse her behavior? Shouldn’t she be excusing her own behavior?

 

Again, you're totally right. I am making alot of excuses. Part of me feels like that's just being objective and looking at it from all angles, but part of me says I'm beng naive.

 

But hey, one thing I wanted to tell YOU is that your (ex?) boyfriend may not be calling for the same reason my girl tells me. I know she wants to talk to me, I can hear it in the tone of her voice. She says the reason she doesn't call isn't because she doesn't want to, but because she really does care and she doesn't want to call and give mixed signals when she's asking for space. I don't know, I think she really means it and he may be feeling the same way, I think it's a good sign that she thinks that way.

 

You'll probably get this after you talk to her. So I can't really help you beforehand. But I think you should say, "Hey, are you dating other guys?" If she says yes, you can talk about it. BUT WHATEVER YOU DO -- DO NOT LOOK JEALOUS. Be jealous inside if you are (ick, I wouldn't be, those guys could end up as sad as you are one day!), but DO NOT SHOW IT. Do NOT look pouty. I don't think you will. You seem like a sensible guy, even if it's only in print. You seem to have proceeded in a very straightforward manner with her and that is excellent.

 

Well, earlier in the day her best friend called to ask me to a party this week. We got to talking and when I asked if Rochelle was seeing other guys she said yes. She also said it isn't anything serious. So then Rochelle called a little later, she started out by apologizing for last night and telling me that it was just a friend from work that stopped by to smoke out. So I repeated what i've told her so many times "If I've meant anything to you at all and if you care about my feelings you've got to be honest with me, don't try to spare my feelings because it'll only make it hurt worse", then I asked her if she was dating guys. She said no, she wasn't dating, but that she had been hanging out with guys. Whatever, semantics, I told her it's fine if she is. I told her I'll get through whatever happens and that I have no right to get angry is she's being "romantic" (or whatever, I don't know how I put it) with these guys. She still said no, there's nothing to tell, she feels the same about me.

 

And hey, only hang out with people who make you feel good. If they don’t make you happy, don’t hang with ‘em. That’ll just kill your happiness. If you love spending time with her, spend time with her.

 

Well that's the thing, she make me unbelieveably happy and completely crushed at the same time.

 

If it’s hurting you that she never calls you first, consider telling her, “Hey, I love you, and I enjoy spending time with you. But you never call, or bring up getting together, so maybe we shouldn’t see each other anymore.” That might re-establish some equality in your relationship. If you let her have all the power, you’re being manipulative. And that’s bad!

 

Well, I would, but I know I'm not strong enough to actually go through with it. See, I know she'd say "O.K Tyler, if that's what's best for you then do it". But then I'd be in agony because now I can't even call her every few weeks like now !

 

Some relationships are open, and each party can date other people for fun, as you said you wouldn’t blame her for. But are you dating other people for fun? Maybe you should try it out! You need to re-establish that you are equal to your semi-girlfriend. Because you are! Some equality-establishing situations like dating other people, having a great time without her, not spending every minute worrying about her can do that.

 

Well, I have been casually hanging out with other girls, but to be honest, I think it's a bad idea right now. For one, it's not fair to them, I'm not really interested no matter how beautiful and nice they may be. And more importantly, it kind of makes me sad. It just reminds me of how all these girls don't make me feel like she did.

 

Anyway, it means alot that you care enough to write that long ass post. Your advice really did help. There are alot of things I know I need to do, but that i don't have the strength to go through with. But hearing this stuff helps.

[UnicornGirl]

Now, do you think there's a way to get the message across that you're moving on and "being a man" yet still maintain contact ? Like I've said, we've been best friends for 10 years or so, long before we were "together', so I truly do want her in my life whether or not we're together. Is there a way to show her that I'm kind of moving on yet still be in her life in a limited way like I have been ?

 

Yes! Be happy. Don't plan your life around her. I personally find that what has worked for me is not INITIATING contact, rather than no contact. I just kind of don't deal with my ex anymore ... I did that for a while and it caused me great pain, but was great PR for me -- I acted like a total sweetheart and mature, responsible person, very forgiving. I mean, I WAS that person. And then I just stopped intiating the contact. Every day I feel so lucky and happy to be able to focus on myself without the guilt and anguish that comes with dumping someone. It's really great. He was e-mailing me a few times a week.

 

But it kind of sucks lately, he wrote that he'd "hopefully talk to me soon' in an e-mail a week ago, and I still haven't heard from him. But I'm not about to initiate getting together or anything, because he's sending me the message that he doesn't want to -- he'd rather hang out with his new friends that he barely knows, and calling up guys from high school he hasn't spoken to in three years and hanging out with them every night. Hey, he's even going to Europe in a few weeks. (Dreadful images of him laughing and forming a "special bond" with someone new and gorgeous as they cheerily gondola down some Italian river at sunset keep flashing through my mind. Yuck.) So that's the down side to limited contact. But it's not THAT bad.

 

And hey, I'm -- or rather, I was -- in the same situation as you -- spending time with him was incredibly wonderful and yet also kind of like open-heart surgery sans those drugs that make you fall asleep during it. I am MUCH BETTER on a daily basis now that I no longer initiate contact, and in a much better place in my life. Yes, you run the risk of not seeing her for a while if she won't call you. But hey -- people come and go and come back and show up when you least expect them.

 

It's hard when someone who's like family to you (in my case my ex WAS my family, basically, since I was always trying to escape my very messed-up home life via him) becomes a semi-stranger. Not a total stranger, but a certain closeness and intimacy is gone, or on hold, or something. It sucks. To me it's like he's HIM -- he has this nasty habit of constantly bringing up our personal jokes, referencing experiences together, almost to the point where he finds MORE connections and things to reminisce about with me than ever before (this is annoying and painful and inexplicably bizarre) -- but he's not really HIM him. He's hiding part of himself from me. And that part is slowly, but surely, dying away forever. Knowing that it will be gone soon is both happy and sad for me.

 

 

 

That's the same with us. We know each other's family. She's been on vacations to Georgia to meet my family. We're always being told we act like we're married already. We've always told each other it's only a matter of time before we're married and starting a family. It's weird, about 2 months after our breakup we were talking about my friend's kid and she still refered to it as "Our kids" when she was talking about having one someday. In april she wrote me the most beautiful letter, telling me that nothing in the world could be so bad that it would break us up. And now here we are.

 

But what you say about focusing on myself makes alot of sense. I just need to figure out how. I need to learn how I can put myself and my feelings ahead of a possible relationship with her. I'm just scared that I'm too willing to gamble and get hurt, I love her too much still.

 

Wait a second -- are you suggesting that spending time on yourself and not being the only active participant in your friendship with this girl right now is GAMBLING? No. It is not gambling, it is healthy! Take a break. Tell yourself it's only for a little while if you like it, just take a break from the effort. You don't need to "figure out how." You need to just say "screw it" for a little while.

 

But hey, one thing I wanted to tell YOU is that your (ex?) boyfriend may not be calling for the same reason my girl tells me. I know she wants to talk to me, I can hear it in the tone of her voice. She says the reason she doesn't call isn't because she doesn't want to, but because she really does care and she doesn't want to call and give mixed signals when she's asking for space. I don't know, I think she really means it and he may be feeling the same way, I think it's a good sign that she thinks that way.

 

I hope (maybe?) that's what my ex is doing. I think it has more to do with the fact that he has the emotional intelligence of a two-year-old. OK, maybe two and a half. But still pretty low. Your girl sounds very honest. But I don't think she's being honest with herself (or you) about how confused she is! Which is understandable. Hey, you're confused too. Really confused. You need to give yourself a break. It's not a gamble, it's not scary, it's fun and relaxing and you deserve a little vacation.

 

 

Well, earlier in the day her best friend called to ask me to a party this week. We got to talking and when I asked if Rochelle was seeing other guys she said yes. She also said it isn't anything serious. So then Rochelle called a little later, she started out by apologizing for last night and telling me that it was just a friend from work that stopped by to smoke out. So I repeated what i've told her so many times "If I've meant anything to you at all and if you care about my feelings you've got to be honest with me, don't try to spare my feelings because it'll only make it hurt worse", then I asked her if she was dating guys. She said no, she wasn't dating, but that she had been hanging out with guys. Whatever, semantics, I told her it's fine if she is. I told her I'll get through whatever happens and that I have no right to get angry is she's being "romantic" (or whatever, I don't know how I put it) with these guys. She still said no, there's nothing to tell, she feels the same about me.

 

She is confused! That's all I have to say. Confusion. Semantics is key here -- she's so vague!!! What she says now can be turned around to "Well, I actually meant ..." or, "I didn't know what I wanted ..." or ... "I was confused!" later on. I'm not saying she will, but she could! Trust her, since trust is an important part of any friendship/relationship/what have you, but don't bet your life and happiness on her. She could change completely -- not because she's a bad person, or because she was lying, or anything -- but the way she's phrasing things right now shows that you cannot depend on her coming back. You just can't! She really wants you to believe it, and part of her wanting to believe it is that she is SECURING YOU -- she's guaranteeing (in her mind) that you won't be mad, that you'll be understanding, and that she can come back if she wants you. Just consider that.

 

 

 

Well that's the thing, she make me unbelieveably happy and completely crushed at the same time.

 

Unbelievably happy + completely crushed = two things that cancel each other out, and you are left with NOTHING but confusion.

 

 

Well, I would, but I know I'm not strong enough to actually go through with it. See, I know she'd say "O.K Tyler, if that's what's best for you then do it". But then I'd be in agony because now I can't even call her every few weeks like now !

 

If she responded that way she'd be quite the psychological master. Because that's exactly the way to keep you hanging onto her. Right? Pretty interesting.

 

Try letting her call you. Just see if she will. She probably will. When she calls you, just talk with her for a few minutes. Try cancelling your next planned time together. Just as an experiment. See what happens. The results will tell you if your relationship is totally one-sided right now. Just practice seeing what it'd be like. It's what you'll have to do if you two eventually break up, which is always a possibility. Now is your time to experiment, see what life is like as a single person, as your most important relationship being that huge one with yourself.

 

 

Well, I have been casually hanging out with other girls, but to be honest, I think it's a bad idea right now. For one, it's not fair to them, I'm not really interested no matter how beautiful and nice they may be. And more importantly, it kind of makes me sad. It just reminds me of how all these girls don't make me feel like she did.

 

Three months later, it's not a bad idea. I'm not saying you should start another serious relationship. But see it this way. What if she was gone forever? She's already pretty absent from your life and would be more so if you stopped contacting her so much. OF COURSE it makes you sad! When you talk to another girl you get sad because it brings up the idea of what your life might be like if she were out of the picture.

 

Consider this, since you like to consider all the angles. You've got a great situation going for you right now. She's guaranteed she's coming back (in words -- not worth betting your life on a promise like that but it's pretty good, and she seems trustworthy), and just needs space. You get to experiment! It's a free break with no responsibilities or guilt or anything! It's time to experiment with yourself and your life, 100% free. It's amazing. I'm not getting serious with anyone and I think serious is boring. Serious involvement you can't do right now. Try fun -- flirting, going out, meeting women, whatever. Just hanging out with attractive members of the opposite sex, that, were you unattached, you'd be pursuing right now. Date and talk to women that are amazing and fabulous. See what they're like. Because it's good for you. It's a great self-confidence booster and -- makes you more attractive to the girl you like! Trust me. When she comes back, your relationship will be amazing -- you'll look great, you'll feel good about yourself, you'll be independent and have your own amazing life going great for you. Isn't that how you got her in the first place? By attracting her? Try attracting her back. And if she won't come back, you'll at least have a great setup and feel great about yourself. Your life does not depend on her coming back, it doesn't even depend on having her in your life, even if it feels like you can't imagine life without her. She won't want to come back to a depressed, desperate guy (not saying you are right now, but you could become one) who gives 100% of himself to her the second she comes back. A relationship is all about attraction and wanting to be a part of someone's amazing life.