So many lies

[Quiet Storm]

Thank you for telling your story.

 

I think it is very hard for some OW to believe that a MM can love his wife and want to be married, while simutaneously loving an OW. OW often think that because a couples sex life is sporadic and romance has faded, that this means that the marriage is over. It seems that many women are more emotional than men and think "we are in love=we must be together". I think a lot of men don't see it that way- it is easier for them to love without it progressing into hope or expectations.

 

Your post illustrates how many men are OK with getting their needs met by multiple people. Your wife's lack of interest in sex & your incompatibilities with her doesn't prompt you to end the marriage & find someone more compatible- it just prompts you to seek other ways to meet your needs. The marriage is still a huge part of your life & future.

 

This is why I often say that the OW is not intended to be a replacement of the wife- but a supplement. I think for most MM, they see the wife & marriage as a permanent and non negotiable part of their life. OW is the extra indulgence that he enjoys for as long as the circumstances allow. This is why in many MM/single OW scenarios, the OW has to be the one to end it. MM is content to let it go on forever.

 

Your post shows that many men are capable of loving an OW within the confines of an affair, but that this "love" is not worth changing your life over.

 

If I ignore the character issues, dishonesty & disrespect towards wife & kids... I can see how this situation would be beneficial to two married people that want to supplement their marriages. It is mutually using each other for excitement, sex & feelings. You can enjoy the benefits of this person, without focusing on the bad parts.

 

However, many MM would not choose to be married to MW because they have seen what she is capable of. It is easy to disregard the lying, cheating part of her character because that part of her benefits you in an affair. If you were her husband, however, those negative traits hers would be a huge liability. Do you truly love the OW as a person? Or do you love that she is willing to meet your needs and the way she makes you feel?

 

I don't think this scenario would work for a single OW, though. Most single women have higher expecations. They want the affair to be a stepping stone to a real relationship. Once the high of new love wears off, most OW aren't satisfied with being an OW indefinitely.

 

I think your confidence about not getting caught is very arrogant and naive. You are putting your "real life" at risk. As a father, you should have your childrens best interest and well being at heart. You don't want to be a part time dad, but your actions contradict that. By your own words, you are putting your intact family in jeopardy. If you know that your wife would "take the kids" if there was a discovery, how can you justify playing russion roulette with your kid's family and life as they know it? Your excitement is worth their pain? The truth is, you can't justify it. This is why you are in denial and rationalizing away the possibility of getting caught. If you actually allowed yourself to consider the possible outcomes, you would have to change, and you aren't ready to sacrifice your excitement & sex yet. You are lying to youself so that you can keep doing what you want to do. It's a sad thing to do to your family, who you claim to value so much.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Quiet Storm

[veryhappy]

You are just another garden variety serial cheater. Yay?!?

 

Dear MOW to this individual, please put your panties back on and end this. You want more, he doesn't. Not only that, but you are interesting only until somebody else gets his penis more excited.

[MissBee]

 

I guess I don't get the point really of what you're "clearing up".

 

I'm sure most MP's care about their AP. I am sure most FWB do too and the list goes on. Most OW come here with questions, concerns and anxieties that go beyond that. "Caring" and loving and sacrificing for or being with in a full R are different things, as you yourself have admitted, and most people with questions, frustrations and concerns are on those deeper levels besides the obvious. Of course if you're sleeping with someone it's likely you think they are sexy (which is telling that this is the first thing you say about your MW), fun, etc. All kinds of pretty shallow things that casual relationships entail.

 

Caring about someone and loving them aren't the same, likewise loving someone doesn't mean you're gonna leave your marriage for them, as you also said. Most OW come here more concerned with if they're special enough for him to leave and are not hung up on whether or not this person cares about them on a basic level. I also am unsure of the "lies" you're referring to. Also, doing something unintentionally doesn't change the effects. My advice often times, if you were to browse my responses for example, often include the very fact that much of the hurt and frustration is not consciously manipulative and intentional, but nevertheless is a problem and still exists for xyz reason. Someone with issues for example, like those with attachment disorders, usually hurt the people they are with with their push and pull behavior; however, just because they aren't intentionally doing it doesn't make it any less damaging for the person receiving the treatment and doesn't mean the person receiving it has to accept it, "because it's not intentional." Most MP are trying to have their cake and eat it too and have two incompatible things, a wife/husband and secret gf/bf who will be happy being the secret gf/bf, and no one will find out and they can still be married and it will all be lovely.....this is very selfish and plain delusional most times and leads to lots of hurt, frustration and the fantasy falling apart sooner or later...yet I truly do believe many are in fact living in a fantasy at this time and truly believe they aren't hurting anyone...yet they are and intentional or not, all actions have consequences.

 

I can't lie to any OW/OM here . What would that gain me or anyone else? My opinion may be wrong, but that really is not the same as a lie, which is a deliberate falsification of facts. Anyway, most OW/OM are more concerned about what is true from false in their A and that's where lies are to be found in abundance, if anywhere.

Edited November 22, 2013 by MissBee

[HeSh_tTheBed]

I'm in an affair with my friends wife. I've been reading on here since she told me about this place. So many women and men having complete pity party's for themselves or coming here for support only to have a bunch of bitter people telling then lies to make them feel worse about themselves.

 

I do the whole push pull thing or whatever the fk that's called. It's not intentional at least didnt start that way. I like the excitement it's the whole point of the affair, why would I risk my wife,my kids my home if I wasn't getting something out of this? I'm getting excitement and great sex and a great friendship out of it but if I talked to her every single day it would be a relationship right?

We are married, and women fall in love and get real attached real easy, but I do too, I can just deal with it better. If I don't see her I don't feel guilty at all but I see her lots. I don't feel guilty as much as excited but I can't see her everyday if I want to keep it exciting too so that's a real thing to.

 

I care about my affair partner a lot. She's sexy, she's funny she makes me smile. I don't tell her that every single day. We don't say I love you or anything like that but she knows how much I think about her because I've told her. Do women need to hear that every single day to keep believing it? I'm not lying just because I don't constantly repeat how I feel.

 

If I didn't care about her I'd go screw someone else

 

I care about her as a person. I am married though and I have a life I need to keep balanced.

 

In the beginning I loved texting all day and meeting whenever we could , just as much as she did. I couldn't keep doing that though because I've been caught cheating before and when you see the person every day or talk to them or even text every day you start acting weird at home. You get angry and frustrated more and it's just not something you can do forever. The affair either at that point needs to end or slow down. The last time I ended it by getting sloppy and my wife caught me. That was a one time sex thing and mostly just texting. She found the texts but I was over that girl by then so not covering it up good. She wasn't married, wasn't someone I was real close to, I cared about her but I got over it real fast.

 

This girl is different.

We had to slow down.

It does not mean my feelings for her changed. I want the affair to last, that's the point.

 

The longer I go between seeing or talking to her, the more excited I am when I do get to see her. She likes lots of attention, so in order to keep it exciting I pull away and then come back. I figured out I do that, I didn't do it to manage her or manipulate her. I just wanted to keep it fun. That's what she says she wants too but I can tell she wants more and I'd like to be able to give that to her but in all honesty I can't and she needs to be ok with it or it would have to end. We are both married and her husband would kill me, my wife would flip out and leave and ya custody would be shared but she'd get more and make life a living hell. She would move away and I would never see them and I love my wife and my life is a good life right now.

 

Do you think the person you are in an affair with doesn't care at all just because they dont want to text everyday or get caught. That's bull****. They would go get sex somewhere else then. Unless they are ugly or messed up but if they are married and have a side piece, you know they can get laid, they'd get it from somewhere else unless something is unique about the one they are with.

That's what I think.

 

You sound, also verbatim, like my exMM who I JUST found out is a serial cheater and it's exactly how I'd imagine him defending himself. In fact your join date is so new it's impossible for me to think you're not him, with a few details changed. Either way, I appreciate the insight into his/your mind.

 

I totally get all your reasons for cheating, we all have them, that's why we're here. What I find interesting is the tone. Tone reveals everything.

 

You sound really aggravated and put upon. I can almost hear the chest pounding, proclaiming how you have a right to doing things your way. You seem pretty concerned with what you "get" to have and keep.

 

I don't wanna tell you what love is but I'm pretty sure that love involves not only tender feelings for another (cause lust involves that too) but also tender feelings for another's feelings. You seem super aggravated by peoples' feelings. And very defensive.

[BlueBobby]

The lies are coming from everyone. Every side. We all are lying. People here are lying to ladies asking for advice they are being told the guy is just using her and didn't care at all. Maybe if it was a one off but not if its over and over, be could get it from someone else, if its an affair he had feelings there too. We are human too. I have feelings I can just set them aside better.

 

I never said the other girl wasn't worth a real relationship, she is but I'm already in a relationship and so is she. If we had been strangers first of something maybe we would have divorced to be together but we have lots of the same friends, she's good friends with my wife and her husband is my buddy I'm not about to blow that up.

 

She's not going to get tired of me either it's been more than a year she's having a great time too, women need to be given done credit, she likes sex as much as I do. I'm not lying to her I just don't tell her everything.

 

And ya it would be a huge pain in the ass to get a divorce lol! Of course it would be. I'm not trying to rationalize it at all, I'm having a great time I'm not going to break down in tears and confess because that's what other people say to do.

 

I confessed once before it was a huge mistake. I won't do it again.

[beach]

So is the point of this thread to explain to your married OW that posts here - why you do the push/pull effect?

 

It seems you intend to convey a message to her - is that right?

[Owl]

So...lie to your OW to keep the affair going....lie to your wife to keep the marriage going...lie to yourself to keep your conscience going.

 

Sounds like a hell of a life.

[Sub]

Maybe confessing wasn't the mistake.

[MissBee]

We are not all lying . Let's be clear on that.

[BlueBobby]

So is the point of this thread to explain to your married OW that posts here - why you do the push/pull effect?

 

It seems you intend to convey a message to her - is that right?

 

Not sure what my message is I just read a few posts and got pisses off how women were all being told the guy doesn't even think of them as a person just a vagina, just a sex toy. That's not how it is.

[BlueBobby]

So...lie to your OW to keep the affair going....lie to your wife to keep the marriage going...lie to yourself to keep your conscience going.

 

Sounds like a hell of a life.

 

I'm not lying the other girl. I don't tell her exactly how I feel about her because it would just make her attach more and be harder on her I think, I'm not lying though I just don't tell her everything.

[BlueBobby]

We are not all lying . Let's be clear on that.

 

I think everyone lies at some point. Not saying everyone is here but most are blowing smoke.

[BlueBobby]

Maybe confessing wasn't the mistake.

 

Ya that's true but I don't really regret that affair, just that I got sloppy and hurt my wife in the end. I would not confess again.

[Sub]

I'm not lying the other girl. I don't tell her exactly how I feel about her because it would just make her attach more and be harder on her I think, I'm not lying though I just don't tell her everything.

 

I can see what you're saying. But then, what is she giving you that your wife isn't, aside from sex?

[AutumnMoon]

Baby is that you ??

[BlueBobby]

Baby is that you ??

 

I was gonna say that to you too lol!

[Owl]

Ya that's true but I don't really regret that affair, just that I got sloppy and hurt my wife in the end. I would not confess again.

 

I've got to point out the obviously screaming out loud flaw in your logic here...although I garauntee my doing so is a pointless excersise in futility.

 

It's not the confessing that hurts your wife.

[beach]

You stated "your friends wife" is your affair partner...

 

Friends don't do this.

 

Please don't refer to her H as your friend. That's just despicable.

[Cinnimon]

Does your OW complain about the push/pull?

[Quiet Storm]

 

I guess I don't get the point really of what you're "clearing up".

 

I'm sure most MP's care about their AP. I am sure most FWB do too and the list goes on. Most OW come here with questions, concerns and anxieties that go beyond that. "Caring" and loving and sacrificing for or being with in a full R are different things, as you yourself have admitted, and most people with questions, frustrations and concerns are on those deeper levels besides the obvious. Of course if you're sleeping with someone it's likely you think they are sexy (which is telling that this is the first thing you say about your MW), fun, etc. All kinds of pretty shallow things that casual relationships entail.

 

Caring about someone and loving them aren't the same, likewise loving someone doesn't mean you're gonna leave your marriage for them, as you also said. Most OW come here more concerned with if they're special enough for him to leave and are not hung up on whether or not this person cares about them on a basic level. I also am unsure of the "lies" you're referring to. Also, doing something unintentionally doesn't change the effects. My advice often times, if you were to browse my responses for example, often include the very fact that much of the hurt and frustration is not consciously manipulative and intentional, but nevertheless is a problem and still exists for xyz reason. Someone with issues for example, like those with attachment disorders, usually hurt the people they are with with their push and pull behavior; however, just because they aren't intentionally doing it doesn't make it any less damaging for the person receiving the treatment and doesn't mean the person receiving it has to accept it, "because it's not intentional." Most MP are trying to have their cake and eat it too and have two incompatible things, a wife/husband and secret gf/bf who will be happy being the secret gf/bf, and no one will find out and they can still be married and it will all be lovely.....this is very selfish and plain delusional most times and leads to lots of hurt, frustration and the fantasy falling apart sooner or later...yet I truly do believe many are in fact living in a fantasy at this time and truly believe they aren't hurting anyone...yet they are and intentional or not, all actions have consequences.

 

I can't lie to any OW/OM here . What would that gain me or anyone else? My opinion may be wrong, but that really is not the same as a lie, which is a deliberate falsification of facts. Anyway, most OW/OM are more concerned about what is true from false in their A and that's where lies are to be found in abundance, if anywhere.

 

Great post.

 

Most human dysfunction and pain are not the result of intentional acts to harm or manipulate. More often, it's caused by people that never learned how to deal with life, especially conflict. As I say frequently... Hurt people, hurt people.

 

When I use the term "poor character", I am not only speaking of people that are personality disordered manipulators. I am also talking about people whose "default" is to lie, cheat, avoid or sneak because of the circumstances in their lives. Kids that lie to escape the wrath of a scary, alcoholic father grow into adults that lie to cope with any uncomfortable situation or conflict. They are not evil or bad, but their methods of coping harm others, nonetheless.

 

I think an affair is very similar to an addiction. Both are ways of escaping & coping. Addicts are not intentionally trying to hurt their family, but their self destructive actions cause a lot of collateral damage. They didn't mean to hurt others, but this fact does not change the outcome. While in an affair, most participants don't see it as being self destructive. They see it as a solution or an enhancement, much like drug or alcohol is used. However, once the affair or addiction is discovered and consequences are felt, most people look back on their actions as self destructive.

 

Using your logic of "no ill intent", you could say that pedophila should be excused because the pedophile "loves" the child. Or that it's not the pedophiles fault, because he is only doing what was done to him.

 

It doesn't really matter if you are sociopath scheming to manipulate, or a person with poor coping skills that is just trying to meet his own needs. The person at the other end of your manipulation or your sad attempt to soothe yourself is still a victim of your dysfunction.

[BlueBobby]

I wasnt trying to sound like an ass. Guys have feeling too. I've had sex with people and affairs that nobody had ever found out about. It's another lie to say everyone gets caught.

[BlueBobby]

Does your OW complain about the push/pull?

 

Not really but she's asked about it. I didn't notice I was doing it until she asked a few times. I think I do it more since she asked because I do think it makes it more exciting when we can talk and I told her that now.

[beach]

I wasnt trying to sound like an ass. Guys have feeling too. I've had sex with people and affairs that nobody had ever found out about. It's another lie to say everyone gets caught.

 

When a person is willing to be honest - there isn't any lies to keep track of.

 

I can't see the point of your thread - other than bragging about the lies you've managed to pull off. And possibly sending info here to your OW.

 

We all know well that cheaters lie, lie, lie. It's the thing they do best!

 

But in the end - the one cheating has to look at the reflection that's in the mirror.

[Owl]

I wasnt trying to sound like an ass. Guys have feeling too. I've had sex with people and affairs that nobody had ever found out about. It's another lie to say everyone gets caught.

 

That still doesn't make it alright. Nor acceptable. Nor good for your marriage. Or you wife.

 

It's not the 'getting caught' that hurts your wife.

 

It's the fact that you intentionally deceive her, lie to her, mislead her, withold the truth about your trustworthiness and loyalty from her.

 

But you don't get that, I think. Or just don't care enough about her to want to try.

[BlueBobby]

I can see what you're saying. But then, what is she giving you that your wife isn't, aside from sex?

 

She gives me the KIND of sex I want and she lets me talk about things that I want to talk about without making me feel like I'm fckd up in the head. She likes the same things I do, not related to sex too.

 

I think it's totally possible to love more than one person at a time and I do.