Do WS always need IC, whether they stay or go?

[thecharade]

I do believe love is an action, a verb. Sure, it starts as a feeling and remains a feeling, but without the loving actions, it ends up being merely a crush. This is why I feel that a WS having an A shows an inability to love. Anyone. Someone who has an A does not love their spouse, and if they say they do, it's because they don't really understand love. They only understand to call respect or need or appreciation 'love.' But it's not. It's just respect for them or need for them or appreciation of them. And someone that eats cake does not love their OP. Subjecting them to this type of love means they don't really get what love is, either. How could they let their OP wait and hurt? Or throw them under the bus? It is all unloving. Yes, I apply these same standards to myself.

 

So, is it true? Stay or go? Man or woman? New or old marriage? Does having an A and subjecting two people to a compromised relationship with you indicate that you do not yet know true love, only some strange compilation of other emotions? If love is an action, then it must be true. And so all WSs need help, IC, fixing?

 

To be honest, the OW side of me seems healthier. I loved him, in the best way I could. The fact that he was an MM was on him and his brokenness. But the WS side of me seems far more dysfunctional. Being a WS has really made me realize that I don't understand love. Or I couldn't have done it. I think this is true for all WSs. If love is an action and As are unloving, then we don't love our spouses. Or anyone? Unless we get help?

 

Would you force a WS into counseling whether you are the reconciling BS or the winning OP?

[thecharade]

Maybe this is more suited to Infidelity, I don't know. We deal with our MM and MW on both sides of the board. So, I am wondering how everyone views them and their capacity for true love. If you ended up with your married love, would you insist they go to IC?

Edited November 23, 2013 by thecharade

[MissBee]

A big worry for me was whether or not this was how he was or not and we did get a chance to be together after we broke off the A, and I never really addressed that. Things ended anyway, but in the back of my mind I always wondered about what he did and what that meant for our future.

 

I think many OW just assume this is a one time thing and if they end up together they think merely ending up together is all there is to it. I don't believe "once a cheater, always a cheater" but I do believe that "Once you've seen negative behaviors it is folly not to address it."

 

I don't think any harm can come from going to couple's counseling at the least. That is at least one advantage of the affair, you have witnessed with your own two eyes this person's capacity to live a double life. You therefore have no excuse to turn a blind eye to what you saw for yourself. Most other people marry or date this person without seeing them cheat before their very eyes...so in that case the implicit trust makes more sense; but for someone who has witnessed their partner in the act of cheating on someone else, then it's foolhardy IMO to waltz off into the sunset never addressing that.

[thecharade]

I told my MM that if we made the leap, counseling would be required--separately and together. He agreed.

 

But I did fear that IC would push him away from me and back home, so would OW and OM avoid it for that reason?

 

Do OW and OM think it's just a broken situation? Not a broken person?

Edited November 23, 2013 by thecharade

[MissBee]

I told my MM that if we made the leap, counseling would be required--separately and together. He agreed.

 

But I did fear that IC would push him away from me and back home, so would OW and OM avoid it for that reason?

 

Do OW and OM think it's just the situation? Not the person?

 

Of course many OW think it is the situation and not the person...but I think it is a VERY foolish line of thinking. Many people are in similar situations and don't cheat. For example, my dad is a serial cheater, all this time my mom hasn't ever cheated on him. Likewise every marriage/R that involves cheating, both people are in the SAME relationship and some don't cheat. So resorting to cheating is on the person.

 

Now, I don't think for everyone it is a chronic problem, but I do think that it is silly to not try to find out what the case is in your situation. The easy route is to simply assume it is a one time deal. Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't and it makes sense to figure that out and counseling can help as well as looking at their history.

 

You're hoping not to have counseling because you're scared he will leave you. That already shows your relationship is very insecure and fear-based. Essentially you would rather bury your head in the sand than go to counseling so he will stay. Is that worth it? It sounds like desperation, like you're willing to turn a blind eye and wish on a star just to keep him. If he doesn't want to stay with you....let him leave. He isn't the last man on earth. If counseling means he will go back to his wife...then he isn't "yours" to begin with and you're not worth it to him.

 

Every person should be with someone who chooses them FULLY and whom they choose. Which is why cheating is so convoluted. Give him the free choice to stay or be with you and don't renege on your standards just to keep him...as ultimately you will probably always still be fearful that one day he will leave you, even if you never ask him to go to counseling. It can turn into a downward spiral of being a doormat, where to keep a man, you pretty much make yourself uncomfortable so that he isn't uncomfortable and so that he won't leave, that gives him way too much power and places you on the back burner. If he is unwilling to work on himself or if he is always one foot out the door to leave you or if you feel that way...maybe you should rethink if this R is as great as you think.

[thecharade]

Oh, I agree, MissBee. After going round and round with my MM, I decided that everything about how things were unfolding felt wrong. And I walked away. But for me personally, when he and I were talking about leaving our Ms, I told him we would need to see someone and get clear on a lot of things, both together and separately. He agreed, but things fell apart for other reasons.

 

BSs often see their WSs as broken, but I don't see people over here "requiring" IC. I just don't see how getting healthy is bad. If it leads someone away from me, then what kind of person or relationship did I even have?

 

As a WS, I see myself as broken, but not for the obvious reasons alone. I do not think I should have married my H, do not think I should have stayed with him, do not think I should have cheated instead of dealing, and do not think I should be staying with him now. I blame myself for all those choices, not just the A. I feel a lot of WSs are like me, it doesn't necessarily matter where we end up. I've had a lot of IC, but she does not like to explore this avenue. She is very "all marrieds can make it work!" Rah! Rah!

[carhill]

IMO, if the WS stays in the M and ends the affair, MC is crucial, perhaps with IC for any adjunct personal issues. If the WS 'goes', and doesn't involve others, therapy can be beneficial but lack doesn't affect anyone but the WS. However, should the WS remain on with their former AP, then I feel couple's counseling would be beneficial to grow that relationship and deal with the dynamics from which it evolved. This presumes the parties wish professional assistance. If they don't, it will be generally worthless and ill-advised.

[MissBee]

Oh, I agree, MissBee. After going round and round with my MM, I decided that everything about how things were unfolding felt wrong. And I walked away. But for me personally, when he and I were talking about leaving our Ms, I told him we would need to see someone and get clear on a lot of things, both together and separately. He agreed, but things fell apart for other reasons.

 

BSs often see their WSs as broken, but I don't see people over here "requiring" IC. I just don't see how getting healthy is bad. If it leads someone away from me, then what kind of person or relationship did I even have?

 

As a WS, I see myself as broken, but not for the obvious reasons alone. I do not think I should have married my H, do not think I should have stayed with him, do not think I should have cheated instead of dealing, and do not think I should be staying with him now. I blame myself for all those choices, not just the A. I feel a lot of WSs are like me, it doesn't necessarily matter where we end up. I've had a lot of IC, but she does not like to explore this avenue. She is very "all marrieds can make it work!" Rah! Rah!

 

Really? That's odd, because it seems like people recommend marriage counseling and IC all the time on here esp in Infidelity.

 

I think your insights into yourself are good. Definitely at one point or other most of us could benefit from IC. And the aspect about shouldn't have married, shouldn't have stayed with your H etc is also true. For example: I don't think my parents should have ever married and although my dad is the cheater, IC would help my mother to figure out why she's put up with it. Although my own guess is that she also never witnessed good relationships in her life, her dad was an absentee father, I've never even met him either, and my grandmother was unwed, so in her mind I think she thinks at least she got married! Which seemed like a step up I suppose *shrug* But on all sides of the A triangle there usually needs to be some introspection.

 

I don't think a BS should just forgive without questions or MC/IC neither do I believe an OW/OM should ride off with the MP and act like there is nothing to be addressed both within themselves and their MP, and the WS esp needs to be introspective in him/herself.

[thecharade]

Oh, I guess I worded that wrong. I was attempting to point out that a BS very often wants MC/IC as part of reconciliation. But an OP hardly ever mentions wanting their MM/MW to get some IC.

 

I would have left for my MM, wanted to. And we discussed it many times, what it would look like and entail. There would have been so much emotional baggage that would have warranted assistance, but there would also be the reality that we had both been cheaters who bailed on marriages. I would have been so uncomfortable NOT analyzing our whys! I would want to ensure that we did not repeat our old mistakes in thinking and behavior.

 

To broaden my issue of love, I am not sure that I know how to love people that I don't have to take care of, a common codependent issue. I can care very much about people, but I don't end up in Rs with people who don't 'need' me. Over time then, I lose respect and become exhausted, which is what happened with my H. So, what about my exMM? Yes, I was his caretaker in many ways. So is his W, which is why their M has soured. I would have been doomed to repeat my mistakes with my MM, just as he would have done with me. But IC would have or could have saved us! I think an WS always has an issue that caused their predicament in the first place.