Silly_Girl Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 My personal view is that religion is a conspiracy forced upon children who are too young to exercise their freedom of choice. Even many non-believers perpetuate the myths, knowingly or not. I'm not comfortable with promoting Santa: a fictitious man who does magical things, has supernatural helpers and judges you on your behaviour (be good or he won't come...). To me, I'd be a hypocrite to embrace Father Christmas. Is it worse because people who raise their children within a faith mostly whole-heartedly believe it's real, whereas I would be barefaced lying to my kids by saying 'Santa will visit with presents'. My husband (a more committed atheist than myself) says I'm being daft. Christmas is about harnessing imagination and it's 'for good' and 'fun'. (He escaped religion when he left home for uni) I say that those who embrace a religion may well say the very same things about their chosen beliefs. I'd be very interested in different views on this please! Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Lots of people have different views. Can you reconcile Santa as a metaphor? Tell your children the stories -- but emphasize that Santa is a symbol who helps people to remember to be kind & generous. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 My husband (a more committed atheist than myself) says I'm being daft. Christmas is about harnessing imagination and it's 'for good' and 'fun'. (He escaped religion when he left home for uni) I say that those who embrace a religion may well say the very same things about their chosen beliefs. I agree with your husband. And while I can not speak for religious people, I've never heard one express that their religion is about imagination and fun. We embrace Santa and the elves. From the youngest ages, when we include the child in buying or preparing gifts, we refer to it as "elf work". As they get older, they come to understand that we are the elves, and we each can be Santa. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 As a doting grandmother I am doing everything on my part to nurture my grandchildren's sense of wonder at the magical and the miracles in this life (whether it's Santa, Jesus, or the Tooth Fairy); and I hope they never let that go. There's too many ugly and horrible things out there not to. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I am not a religious but lets kids have their childhood. They have enough time to wake up to the harsh realities of the world so let them have these happy memories. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Its one thing to be an atheist.... but in my opinion, sonata has nothing to do with religion, but has more to do with the spirit of the holiday, promoting kindness. Laughter, generosity, spontaneous gift giving, and love for your friends. You shouldn't rob a kid of their Santa experience. Especially since you will also be alienating them from their peers . I will always be an atheist after going to catholic school for six years, but I still love the idea of Santa of kids. Just ignore people when they try to make Santa religious. Santa is about as religious as the easter bunny. Which is not at all. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 sonata has nothing to do with religion Oh I disagree; God is inextricably woven into music. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Oh I disagree; God is inextricably woven into music. Stupid autocorrect. Link to post Share on other sites
Ocysp Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Stupid autocorrect. Even autocorrect doesn't believe in Santa! Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 My husband (a more committed atheist than myself) says I'm being daft. Christmas is about harnessing imagination and it's 'for good' and 'fun'. (He escaped religion when he left home for uni) I say that those who embrace a religion may well say the very same things about their chosen beliefs. I'd be very interested in different views on this please! It has been demonstrated many times that fantasies and imaginary play is healthy and normal for children. So I don't think you will find any evidence that the fantasy of Santa will do any damage. While it was a very disappointing day when I reasoned out the problem of time - how could he deliver presents to everyone in the world in one night? - my memories of Christmas during my early childhood are downright magical and precious. I think you would be robbing your children of something special were you to deny them the Santa fantasy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Z Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 (edited) ...course you could tell them about the real Santa, which may have involved a man, Cinder Claus, and his little black elf, possibly [it is conjectured] a little homo floresiensis which had been imported from the Indonesian Islands by Turkish traders, who rewarded good children, and punished bad ones by sticking them in a bag and beating them with a broom, or something like that. Yes, I just suggested that there really were elves; also euphemistically called hobbits, and known today as homo floresiensis. There is a little Christmas magic for the adults. Edited November 24, 2013 by Robert Z Link to post Share on other sites
Shepp Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I agree with your husband! For one thing, I don think any parents "believe Santa is real" everyone knows their story telling. You shouldn't rob a kid of their Santa experience. Especially since you will also be alienating them from their peers . Exactly this! C'mon you get lifetime on this planet - however long or short it is depending on how lucky you are, but what ever does or doesn't happen after that, how much time do you get on it when your still young enough to believe in magic? Hardly any! Why take it away? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 Another point of view: you and your husband don't have to agree on this. He can share all his Santa fun, and you can openly call it silliness or whatever and just not join in. Let them have their fun! I'd guess that your child might believe for a while, then at some point have fun "believing" with dad against buzz-kill mom. My kids continue to "believe", even though they now know the drill. It's just more fun to pretend Santa is coming. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted November 24, 2013 Share Posted November 24, 2013 I agree with your husband. And while I can not speak for religious people, I've never heard one express that their religion is about imagination and fun. We embrace Santa and the elves. From the youngest ages, when we include the child in buying or preparing gifts, we refer to it as "elf work". As they get older, they come to understand that we are the elves, and we each can be Santa. Having been raised in a Christian home I can say that I was taught, as were my peers, that a huge part of our religion was about Imagination and fun. Imagination is gift from God. Celebrating Him should be fun and filled with laughter and silliness and fun. I think my mom would have liked to keep me innocent and trusting longer but my older sister, who bullied and tormented me, told me santa wasn't real when I was 2. Most holidays stem from religious beliefs and tradition. HOLYdays. If you are an athiest then don't acknowledge any of them. Pick some non-religious holidays to celebrate or just skip them altogether. Link to post Share on other sites
Shepp Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 If you are an athiest then don't acknowledge any of them. Pick some non-religious holidays to celebrate or just skip them altogether. I feel so sorry for kids who's parents skip holidays!! I had went to primary school with a lad who's folks we're Buddhist - must of been about 7years old on the last day of term before we broke up for xmas holidays, he sobbed cause his folks didn't have a Xmas tree and he wouldn't see the school one anymore. After that his folks celebrated Xmas every year, still do - they don't believe in it, but they do believe all getting together, giving presents, having some fun and decorating a tree. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Does anyone understand (understand not agree) why I feel it would be hypocritical. It's not about Christmas being a tradition linked with religion. It's that every justification I or my husband put forward for acknowledging Santa I can imagine being used in the defence of religion. And I scoff at those things... My point of view (and I know it's not everyone's): It's not real All adults conspire in the pretence, and deceive children who aren't mature enough to weigh things up for themselves The big guy watches how you behave and judges you accordingly The irony is that I love Christmas and always made such a big deal for my son. The magic of seeing children so excited and captured by the whole thing gets me quite emotional. I just can't reconcile it within myself right now. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 To me, I'd be a hypocrite to embrace Father Christmas. I would agree with you that it is hypocritical to celebrate Christmas if you are not a Christian. I never could understand why people participate in the celebration of Christmas if they are not believers. What is the point? If they want to create their own celebration and celebrate each other and give gifts to each other without being under the guise of Christmas, then that would make sense. Celebrating something that you don't believe in makes no sense to me. That would be like me, a Christian, celebrating Hindu holidays. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 My point of view (and I know it's not everyone's): It's not real All adults conspire in the pretence, and deceive children who aren't mature enough to weigh things up for themselves The big guy watches how you behave and judges you accordingly It's not real, but fairies aren't real, and we read stories about those and have fun pretending they live in the forest. In my family, we don't conspire to deceive. We conspire to imagine. And we read lots of stories that involve characters who believe, and characters who don't believe, and ask what the child thinks, leading them toward questioning. The Polar Express is a good one for this. We don't send the message that THIS IS TRUE. We only do the "santa is watching" thing. Well, we do it when they are older and know the deal, as a joke. There's a middle ground. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I would agree with you that it is hypocritical to celebrate Christmas if you are not a Christian. I never could understand why people participate in the celebration of Christmas if they are not believers. What is the point? If they want to create their own celebration and celebrate each other and give gifts to each other without being under the guise of Christmas, then that would make sense. Celebrating something that you don't believe in makes no sense to me. That would be like me, a Christian, celebrating Hindu holidays. Yeah, and make those infidels and heretics work on Christmas, too. But please God no more made-up holidays. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 I would agree with you that it is hypocritical to celebrate Christmas if you are not a Christian. I never could understand why people participate in the celebration of Christmas if they are not believers. What is the point? If they want to create their own celebration and celebrate each other and give gifts to each other without being under the guise of Christmas, then that would make sense. Celebrating something that you don't believe in makes no sense to me. That would be like me, a Christian, celebrating Hindu holidays. I'm okay with participating in Christmas. I'm sure you will be confused by that. It's such a huge part of the culture of my country, and is rarely (in my experience, looking back on my life) about religion, and I like to use it to value what I have, and family and friends and counting my 'blessings'. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I meant to say we don't do "santa is watching". Another thought: is your husband rigid about his Santa ideals? I know some parents who worry that their child will find out the truth "too young", and go out of their way to keep up the deception, even getting upset if other children express disbelief in Santa. I think that's a little extreme, and I can't get behind that. I think it should be fun, and a choice for the child as early as possible. We embraced it, but nudged our children toward questioning. Link to post Share on other sites
Fluttershy Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I have never met an adult who believes in Santa Claus... so perhaps you are worrying over nothing. I grew up in an non Santa Claus sometimes anti Santa Claus christian home. I never believed him and I never felt like I was missing out. I got my presents from my parents and anything about Santa was a fantasy and fun to pretend all the while knowing I was pretending. To the best of my memory I didn't have any friends who really believed in Santa Claus either. We watched lots of Santa movies and it was always fun. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Yeah, and make those infidels and heretics work on Christmas, too. But please God no more made-up holidays. I used to work in an office with several Jewish men. They celebrated Jewish holidays, and took time off from work for those celebrations. The rest of us did not. I'm not saying people shouldn't get time off when much of the world celebrates Christmas. I'm just saying I don't see the point in celebrating something that you don't believe in. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I'm okay with participating in Christmas. I'm sure you will be confused by that. It's such a huge part of the culture of my country, and is rarely (in my experience, looking back on my life) about religion, and I like to use it to value what I have, and family and friends and counting my 'blessings'. Well, I don't understand your dilemma then, or the reason for the thread. Your OP made it sound like you felt hypocritical for celebrating Christmas, and your post just before mine sounded that way as well. Now you are saying you are O.K. with it. Which one is it? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Silly_Girl Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 I meant to say we don't do "santa is watching". Another thought: is your husband rigid about his Santa ideals? I know some parents who worry that their child will find out the truth "too young", and go out of their way to keep up the deception, even getting upset if other children express disbelief in Santa. I think that's a little extreme, and I can't get behind that. I think it should be fun, and a choice for the child as early as possible. We embraced it, but nudged our children toward questioning. xxoo, he's definitely not rigid. He wants to give it a go but is open-minded. My son believed for so long that when he was 9 I sat him down and told him because I was worried he'd end up ridiculed/bullied! He was the last one in his peer group to believe and it wasn't because of me insisting, he just implicitly trusted me that I wouldn't lie about something that big. Ouch! Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts