Atheist struggling with Santa

[Silly_Girl]

I have never met an adult who believes in Santa Claus... so perhaps you are worrying over nothing. I grew up in an non Santa Claus sometimes anti Santa Claus christian home. I never believed him and I never felt like I was missing out. I got my presents from my parents and anything about Santa was a fantasy and fun to pretend all the while knowing I was pretending. To the best of my memory I didn't have any friends who really believed in Santa Claus either. We watched lots of Santa movies and it was always fun.

 

Interesting. I grew up assuming EVERY child (unless their faith dictated otherwise) had Santa in their life. Asking around recently I see there's a minority for whom there just was no visit from Santa, even if there were 'presents from santa' it was openly accepted they were from the parents/wider family.

[Silly_Girl]

Well, I don't understand your dilemma then, or the reason for the thread. Your OP made it sound like you felt hypocritical for celebrating Christmas, and your post just before mine sounded that way as well. Now you are saying you are O.K. with it. Which one is it?

 

It's the Santa myth I have an issue with, not Christmas per se

[nittygritty]

I'm okay with participating in Christmas. I'm sure you will be confused by that. It's such a huge part of the culture of my country, and is rarely (in my experience, looking back on my life) about religion, and I like to use it to value what I have, and family and friends and counting my 'blessings'.

 

So you are okay with celebrating Christmas but not okay with Santa?

 

I'm a Christian and I was raised by Christian parents. Writing a Christmas list and making cookies and putting them out for Santa (carrots for his reindeer) is part of the fun for kids at Christmas. I didn't nor did my kids or siblings include "Santa" in the religious part of celebrating Christmas. It's just a fun thing for kids to do. We also celebrated Halloween by dressing in costumes and trick or treating and have easter egg hunts on Easter. Holiday family traditions are mostly for the kids. My advice is not to overthink it and don't ruin the fun of it for your kids.

[nittygritty]

I feel so sorry for kids who's parents skip holidays!!

 

I had went to primary school with a lad who's folks we're Buddhist - must of been about 7years old on the last day of term before we broke up for xmas holidays, he sobbed cause his folks didn't have a Xmas tree and he wouldn't see the school one anymore.

After that his folks celebrated Xmas every year, still do - they don't believe in it, but they do believe all getting together, giving presents, having some fun and decorating a tree.

 

I went to school with a Jehovah witness kid. It was sad that she wasn't allowed to participate in celebrating just about anything. It seems really cruel for a parent to do that to a kid.

[Silly_Girl]

So you are okay with celebrating Christmas but not okay with Santa?

 

I'm a Christian and I was raised by Christian parents. Writing a Christmas list and making cookies and putting them out for Santa (carrots for his reindeer) is part of the fun for kids at Christmas. I didn't nor did my kids or siblings include "Santa" in the religious part of celebrating Christmas. It's just a fun thing for kids to do. We also celebrated Halloween by dressing in costumes and trick or treating and have easter egg hunts on Easter. Holiday family traditions are mostly for the kids. My advice is not to overthink it and don't ruin the fun of it for your kids.

 

I know, it sounds crazy... I tend to be of the view that kids are tricked in to religion by the adults around them (I know a lot of adults who consider they 'escaped religion' when they left home). And it feels like it's the same. in principle.

 

My husband suggested we NEVER tell our children that Santa won't visit if they're 'bad', but that Santa will visit regardless, simply because they are loved. Or just because.

 

My input in the potential compromise was that we immediately 'fess up, if challenged, something xxoo alluded to. Perhaps that would remove the guilt aspect for me.

[Silly_Girl]

I really appreciate that no one has slapped me round the head, it's really helped to air my thoughts.

[nittygritty]

I know, it sounds crazy... I tend to be of the view that kids are tricked in to religion by the adults around them (I know a lot of adults who consider they 'escaped religion' when they left home). And it feels like it's the same. in principle.

 

My husband suggested we NEVER tell our children that Santa won't visit if they're 'bad', but that Santa will visit regardless, simply because they are loved. Or just because.

 

My input in the potential compromise was that we immediately 'fess up, if challenged, something xxoo alluded to. Perhaps that would remove the guilt aspect for me.

 

Blame it on Fred Astaire.

 

[GorillaTheater]

My husband suggested we NEVER tell our children that Santa won't visit if they're 'bad', but that Santa will visit regardless, simply because they are loved. Or just because.

 

This I can certainly get behind. We never made a big deal about Santa one way or the other, but it seems kind of crappy to use him as a club.

[xxoo]

I can see how you'd have misgivings if your son felt deceived. You could always just frame it as a story, rather than truth.

 

But it's a great story

[nomadic_butterfly]

I know, it sounds crazy... I tend to be of the view that kids are tricked in to religion by the adults around them (I know a lot of adults who consider they 'escaped religion' when they left home). And it feels like it's the same. in principle.

 

My husband suggested we NEVER tell our children that Santa won't visit if they're 'bad', but that Santa will visit regardless, simply because they are loved. Or just because.

 

My input in the potential compromise was that we immediately 'fess up, if challenged, something xxoo alluded to. Perhaps that would remove the guilt aspect for me.

 

"Tricked into religion?" Probably not the best diction and somewhat rude and condescending in tone. A person of faith (regardless of that particular faith) can also view children as also being "tricked" or "deceived" into atheism. To each his own. Everyone will raise kids how they deem fit and it most likely will reflect the beliefs (or unbelief) of the parents. But I understand it is hard to state certain things objectively when you have an aversion or on the contrary a passionate belief in something so no offense taken.

Edited November 25, 2013 by nomadic_butterfly

[Silly_Girl]

"Tricked into religion?" Probably not the best diction and somewhat rude and condescending in tone. A person of faith (regardless of that particular faith) can also view children as also being "tricked" or "deceived" into atheism. To each his own. Everyone will raise kids how they deem fit and it most likely will reflect the beliefs (or unbelief) of the parents. But I understand it is hard to state certain things objectively when you have an aversion or on the contrary a passionate belief in something so no offense taken.

 

Ah, I didn't think I was 'rude', apologies if you have seen something in what I wrote that I hadn't intended. My view is based on my own experience of pre-school, school, girl guides, extended family etc. It certainly won't be everyone's thoughts on the subject!

 

In terms of reflecting the parents' beliefs, interestingly it is my son who has led the way for me to feel how I do. In my earlier life I didn't have time to think about such things, but he has shown an interest and as a result it became, for a while, a regular talking point in the house. Back then I didn't really mind which way he went. Both he and my husband are more passionate than I am in terms of exploring/expressing their views, this has just been a specific sticking point for me.

[Tayla]

if one can celebrate a birthday ...consider Christmas a time where we gather gifts and give to others...Some gifts aren't wrapped though..so much as a gesture of good will...a reminder to be a little kinder to one another....

 

If even for one day.....let it be a day that validates ....our appreciation of others...

 

Wish the ideology of it lasted longer...but the reality is...its a miracle that for one day folks can stop being cynical...rude...and worrying about whatever..and take pause to what is valuable...chances are...it cant be wrapped anyways

[gaius]

If the end result of teaching kids about Santa is they enter the adult world with a little bit of skepticism about things they're told, that's probably a good thing.

 

I also think it's important to do mostly what everyone else is doing when it comes to raising kids if it's obvious it doesn't have much of a harmful effect. Making them an outcast because they have less shared experiences than all their peers is not a great idea.

[crederer]

I'm not very religious. I also feel Christmas in general has become so commercial.

 

I only participate as to appease everyone else around me. But I'd really rather not.

 

But if I had kids I'd probably also play along.

[skydiveaddict]

 

I'm not comfortable with promoting Santa: a fictitious man who does magical things,

 

Fictitious my ass. I've seen that fat little bastard at least a dozen times.

[Grumpybutfun]

Fictitious my ass. I've seen that fat little bastard at least a dozen times.

 

Yeah he just hoovers up our cookies and eggnog at the ole Grumpy residence!

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

My personal view is that religion is a conspiracy forced upon children who are too young to exercise their freedom of choice. Even many non-believers perpetuate the myths, knowingly or not.

 

I'm not comfortable with promoting Santa: a fictitious man who does magical things, has supernatural helpers and judges you on your behaviour (be good or he won't come...).

 

To me, I'd be a hypocrite to embrace Father Christmas.

 

Is it worse because people who raise their children within a faith mostly whole-heartedly believe it's real, whereas I would be barefaced lying to my kids by saying 'Santa will visit with presents'.

 

My husband (a more committed atheist than myself) says I'm being daft. Christmas is about harnessing imagination and it's 'for good' and 'fun'. (He escaped religion when he left home for uni) I say that those who embrace a religion may well say the very same things about their chosen beliefs.

 

I'd be very interested in different views on this please!

 

Well, Christmas is originally a pagan holiday that predates Christianity. The Yule log goes way back. It has more to do with nature and the seasons and the stars than with any religion. Christianity hijacked it and used it for their messiah story. Christ was born in like April, wasn't he? Something like that.

 

Celebrate and be merry as the pagans did, even if you aren't pagan. It's great fun for the coldest time of year.

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Actually, I think one of the reasons we've celebrated that time of year (I think winter solstice) is because most things die in winter. Before modern cities, it was just cold and dark and depressing. Celebrating lifts spirits. It's a shame you look at this time with resentment.

 

I also stopped trying to remind people that Christmas is a sham. That is not the time to ruin other people's spirits.

[Outsider77]

I'm not Christian, I celebrate Christmas for the tradition and as an excuse to do things with my family. I was initially against having Santa for my child, because I believe it's a lie that you tell your child and I don't want to lie to my child about things like that.

 

But other people ended up making the decision for me by talking about Santa and saying things were from Santa. So my child bought into the whole Santa thing. I still really don't like the idea, but it's way too late now to do anything about it.

 

If I have another child, I may do things differently.

[Grumpybutfun]

Hi SG:

I understand the theory behind your thoughts, but the payoff of magic, giving and joy that should come with Christmas outweighs the philosophizing in our house. My wife and I are not atheists or religious and we love Christmas. We are spiritual people who believe in doing good for the sake of doing good and not under duress from possible hellfire or punishment or reward. Mostly, it is tradition for us and goodwill tends to be our main theme. We volunteer and host for our families and love the traditional/goodwill aspect of it more than the religious. We don't believe in Christ (but believe in religious freedom,) and Santa is just like the tree and eggnog, a part of the festivities. I also don't believe in the Easter bunny, Jack Frost, The Great Pumpkin or any of that other kid stuff but I will fight for kids to have the right to have that time because it is important for kids to have the possibility even if they decide to not embrace it in their teen years on up. As I have wrote before here, my wife was severely abused as a child and she didn't get this stuff and she feels she lost an integral part of being a child. She says that childhood should be a time for possibility and wonderment, of joy and peace and so she believes that all kids should get the chance to get this part of possible magic.

Christmas is only a sham if people get too involved in the commercial and not in the internal/joy. You also do not have to introduce the good or bad Santa concept. We never did with our family as it seemed too much like Christianity's reward and punishment system. Your child will get to decide what he wants to do with the traditions you start when he gets older, but the possibility of childhood is to see things magically if only for a few years. That is the real gift in Christmas.

Happy Holidays,

Grumps

[Silly_Girl]

I'm not Christian, I celebrate Christmas for the tradition and as an excuse to do things with my family. I was initially against having Santa for my child, because I believe it's a lie that you tell your child and I don't want to lie to my child about things like that.

 

But other people ended up making the decision for me by talking about Santa and saying things were from Santa. So my child bought into the whole Santa thing. I still really don't like the idea, but it's way too late now to do anything about it.

 

If I have another child, I may do things differently.

 

Thanks for this. I think many folk easily assumed my issue was with the festival of Christmas as opposed to the 'duping my kid' bit . But I see you were in the same boat as me.

[Grumpybutfun]

SG: Maybe it would have been clearer what you were looking for if the title had been "Should I tell my child Santa is a lie?":p In my opinion, no because he isn't a lie in what he represents which is magic and giving.

Grumps

[AShogunNamedMarcus]

Thanks for this. I think many folk easily assumed my issue was with the festival of Christmas as opposed to the 'duping my kid' bit . But I see you were in the same boat as me.

 

I guess it depends on how much value you put into how magical a child sees the world.

 

The truth is sometimes kind of boring and wouldn't be much fun to a child. I think a child might be resentful if they feel they missed out on what other kids got to experience.

[Outsider77]

One reason that I was against the idea was because of my own experiences with it as a child. I was really let down when I found out. I am a very imaginative person and love stories; I guess the whole idea was really attractive to me back then. It was like all the magic had left the world, and I felt stupid for believing in it.

[Tiger Lily]

I agree with the OP, in that purposefully creating a lie doesn't seem quite right. But if I go along with that, I better maintain that attitude across the board (Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, pets going to heaven when they die, etc...it gets a bit sticky ).

 

I don't understand the OP's need to equate Santa to Jesus, though. If you really think that Jesus is a complete fabrication, you're buying into a very misguided belief system. Jesus existed.