Dumpees are just as selfish....?

[melell]

I really am starting to feel like the people who hurt a lot and for the longest time are the most self involved.

 

I get that there are sometimes issues with self esteem etc underpinning it, but sometimes I can't help but think that some people are really selfish, and that is why they hold on. -like can't look outside of themselves?

 

I know little about psychology- copied this from wiki... some 'symptoms' of narcissism

 

 

 

• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
  
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
  
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her
  
• Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
  
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
  
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
  
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic
  

 

Couldn't some off this be applied to what people struggle with after a break up?

 

This is just something I have been thinking after reading a lot of posts. It is not something I am dead set on, or a perspective I am particularly fond of.

 

Thoughts?

[SerCay]

Melell,

 

I really like your ability to change perspective and see the ''bad'' in the hurting ones.

 

What you say here, I thought of it too.

When I was struggling in my relationship (read my old threads if you feel like it) there have been many times I was about to go crazy thinking that I was very much the wrong doer and that I was acting up because I was selfish, or because I didnt know how to have a good relationship.

 

Even though my family would tell me it wasnt my fault, I would insist that I was doing a lot of things wrong. I only opened my eyes after I contacted some profressionals who told me that my ex's mental problems were not the cause of his *******ness.

 

And of course, all of us make mistakes, I did too, I made a lot. But in a relationship there's always a balance..you take some Bullsh*t you give some bullsh*t... thats ok.

 

So yeah, I'm actually happy that I stopped seeing myself as the boogieman, because it has killed my self esteem and it was not my fault.

 

Recently I caught myself thinking: ''maybe Im a borderliner or something'' as my ex says im so hard to deal with, but after reading thoroughly about it, I realized nahh, just another bug in my mind he put there...I was brainwashed into believing I was fundamentally at fault.

 

I do believe there actually are some people who are really what you describe them to be, but I dont expect them to be seeing that. Most people dont have the courage to face their own mistakes.

[melell]

I agree, I think the majority of people go through a normal and reasonable amount of healing time and come through the over side pretty balanced in their perspectives.

 

I noticed with myself that as soon as I stopped putting so much focus on my feelings, wants, desires etc. things got much easier. I wasn't looking for validation, or blaming someone else- it was as though by trying to be less selfish in my perspectives, my ex no longer dictated how I felt-my emotions stopped being about me.

 

I kind of got to a 'f*** it, there is more important things than me' mentality. And have been really really happy since.

[LostConfused123]

Yeah, in my opinion, I don't believe this is true.

I read somewhere that when one is dumped, the pain of that travels through the same areas of the brain where physical pain is processed. Tests were done on people who's relationships ended against their wishes and were shown a picture of their ex and then poked with a hot poker. The pain was equal and in some cases being shown the picture hurt MORE! So being rejected and having a broken heart PHYSICALLY hurts!!! You can feel it everywhere. Hence the term heavy heart.

 

I don't think one would be considered selfish or a narcissist if they were getting a tooth extracted with no anesthesia and cried about the pain....Pain just HURTS!!!

 

And Oh GOD, does it HURT!!!!

 

Just my two cents though.

[melell]

Yeah, in my opinion, I don't believe this is true.

I read somewhere that when one is dumped, the pain of that travels through the same areas of the brain where physical pain is processed. Tests were done on people who's relationships ended against their wishes and were shown a picture of their ex and then poked with a hot poker. The pain was equal and in some cases being shown the picture hurt MORE! So being rejected and having a broken heart PHYSICALLY hurts!!! You can feel it everywhere. Hence the term heavy heart.

 

I don't think one would be considered selfish or a narcissist if they were getting a tooth extracted with no anesthesia and cried about the pain....Pain just HURTS!!!

 

And Oh GOD, does it HURT!!!!

 

Just my two cents though.

 

It is really strange! I was reading something about it effecting the same parts of the brain as addiction too.. something like you actually go through a phase of physical, mental, emotional withdrawal.

 

I am meaning people that get hung up for a long long time. I mean, how long does it effect the brain in that way? I would think the mind should have adjusted in less that a year? I wondered after that initial time if it is only perspective that makes it difficult.

[Never Again]

It is really strange! I was reading something about it effecting the same parts of the brain as addiction too.. something like you actually go through a phase of physical, mental, emotional withdrawal.

 

I am meaning people that get hung up for a long long time. I mean, how long does it effect the brain in that way? I would think the mind should have adjusted in less that a year? I wondered after that initial time if it is only perspective that makes it difficult.

 

I imagine that those that hurt longest are those who allow themselves to be retraumatized.

 

The remember the good times and desire them back. Rebuilding the old emotional bridges which are shattered again by the original rejection.

 

It's likely got a lot more to do with a lack of coping mechanisms than being selfish.

[LostConfused123]

It is really strange! I was reading something about it effecting the same parts of the brain as addiction too.. something like you actually go through a phase of physical, mental, emotional withdrawal.

 

I am meaning people that get hung up for a long long time. I mean, how long does it effect the brain in that way? I would think the mind should have adjusted in less that a year? I wondered after that initial time if it is only perspective that makes it difficult.

Good point! And good question too.

Yeah, I forgot to mention the addiction part and needing your "fix" but also know that that will pass over time and the "cravings" do subside.

As far as still being hurt, depressed, angry and all the other feelings dumpees must endure, I would think that would greatly subside and even diminish over time (years)

 

If one still feels agonizing heartbreak years after, then the theory you shared just might be true.

 

But then again, who knows...ha ha!! The heart is a mysterious organ isn't it?

 

Peace and blessings to everyone this holiday

[KatZee]

I kind of got to a 'f*** it, there is more important things than me' mentality.

 

People get over the pain of heartbreak however long it takes them to get over it. There is no set time limit. And there is no "one size fits all" theory here.

 

While it's great you were able to move on so easy, some people aren't. And it's not because they are "selfish." I wouldn't say the average every day person wakes up and thinks, "hmm I feel like suffering even LONGER! So i'm just going to be selfish and feel like crap for another day."

 

I also don't think a "f.uck it" attitude is the opposite of "selfish."

 

Of course there will be more important things going on in the world, but that fact should not negate and does not negate the fact that breakups are one of the worst pains one can experience. Therapists equate it to that of a death. It's a big deal.

 

Having a mentality that there are more important things than you just pushes a dumpees pain below the surface and it doesn't allow you to properly grieve and move on, no matter how long that may be.

 

Everyone has struggles. Some struggles are harder, some struggles are easier. It's not "selfish" to get through your own struggles however long it takes. And one shouldn't be made to feel bad or labeled as "selfish" just because they are struggling through a breakup, while someone else struggles through something others would perceive as worse, like an illness.

 

As long as the dumpee isn't going around seeking attention, making the entire world all about them, throwing constant pity parties, etc etc, then I don't see the problem.

[melell]

 

 

Having a mentality that there are more important things than you just pushes a dumpees pain below the surface and it doesn't allow you to properly grieve and move on, no matter how long that may be.

 

It is incomplete for you to say that as if it were factual.

[LostConfused123]

People get over the pain of heartbreak however long it takes them to get over it. There is no set time limit. And there is no "one size fits all" theory here.

 

While it's great you were able to move on so easy, some people aren't. And it's not because they are "selfish." I wouldn't say the average every day person wakes up and thinks, "hmm I feel like suffering even LONGER! So i'm just going to be selfish and feel like crap for another day."

 

I also don't think a "f.uck it" attitude is the opposite of "selfish."

 

Of course there will be more important things going on in the world, but that fact should not negate and does not negate the fact that breakups are one of the worst pains one can experience. Therapists equate it to that of a death. It's a big deal.

 

Having a mentality that there are more important things than you just pushes a dumpees pain below the surface and it doesn't allow you to properly grieve and move on, no matter how long that may be.

 

Everyone has struggles. Some struggles are harder, some struggles are easier. It's not "selfish" to get through your own struggles however long it takes. And one shouldn't be made to feel bad or labeled as "selfish" just because they are struggling through a breakup, while someone else struggles through something others would perceive as worse, like an illness.

 

As long as the dumpee isn't going around seeking attention, making the entire world all about them, throwing constant pity parties, etc etc, then I don't see the problem.

WOW!!! Well said/written

Yes, the pain of breakups and divorce are like a death. Sometimes worse because we know they are "still out there" but they have to be "dead" to us.

Just truly sucks and definitely one of the most painful experiences of my life!!!

 

My thoughts are with everyone going through this excruciating nightmare!

[mtnbiker3000]

Everyone has struggles. Some struggles are harder, some struggles are easier. It's not "selfish" to get through your own struggles however long it takes. And one shouldn't be made to feel bad or labeled as "selfish" just because they are struggling through a breakup, while someone else struggles through something others would perceive as worse, like an illness.

 

Yep, I'm at 8.5 months, and I still have many ups and owns. Many days that I hurt pretty bad. I don't think this makes me selfish. In fact, I think I am quite the opposite. Now my ex? Yeah, she was pretty selfish about our RS. And I can guarantee, shes not feeling one ounce of pain or regret or anything. She's been long over me and our 3 year RS, engagement and co-habitation.

 

So, sorry, but I completely disagree with the original thread...

[melell]

I think the narural tendency when we get dumped is to blame ourselves - the relationship failed because of me, if I could do something more/say something more etc, maybe they'd still be here.

 

That's where the self-reflective thing comes in.

 

At some point though, your criticism should shift towards the person that dumped you - because unless it's really obvious why you got dumped (eg, clingy/abusive/extremely selfish behaviour), generally, the reasons for being dumped have almost everything to do with the dumper, and a lot less to do with the dumpee.

 

 

Yeah, for sure. I think that the perspective usually always shifts to a more 'objective' one. You can't really be objective unless you process/accept the faults and actions of the other person.

 

I really don't want everyone to think I am meaning in the general sense! I am thinking of it along the terms of 'why me', 'how could they', 'why don't they love me' etc etc. Like when one gets stuck in a thought process where they are hung up on those aspects of it.

 

I guess this can be related to 'acceptance', accepting that people are free to do and act as they wish, and realizing that you are still valuable regardless of how someone else treats you.

 

For me I couldn't be happy until I realized that how I was treated wasn't a reflection of who I am, and I didn't come to that conclusion until I accepted that the actions of people I am close to shouldn't revolve around me.

 

It was that mentality of thinking about how everything was effecting me (the context of my use of 'selfish') that had me feeling bad.

[melell]

Yep, I'm at 8.5 months, and I still have many ups and owns. Many days that I hurt pretty bad. I don't think this makes me selfish. In fact, I think I am quite the opposite. Now my ex? Yeah, she was pretty selfish about our RS. And I can guarantee, shes not feeling one ounce of pain or regret or anything. She's been long over me and our 3 year RS, engagement and co-habitation.

 

So, sorry, but I completely disagree with the original thread...

 

I have read loads of your posts mtnbiker, I would say your progressing through things is healthy and as it should be. I wouldn't consider it selfish at all.

 

What I am meaning is when people get stuck in a loop, and stagnate rather than progress. Could that be a result of inward, or self involved rather than objective thinking?

[BC1980]

I think the narural tendency when we get dumped is to blame ourselves - the relationship failed because of me, if I could do something more/say something more etc, maybe they'd still be here.

 

That's where the self-reflective thing comes in.

 

At some point though, your criticism should shift towards the person that dumped you - because unless it's really obvious why you got dumped (eg, clingy/abusive/extremely selfish behaviour), generally, the reasons for being dumped have almost everything to do with the dumper, and a lot less to do with the dumpee.

 

My breakthrough came when I realized that I was fine the way I was, and it really and truly was not about me. I didn't do anything obvious to end the relationship. Even my ex couldn't give me a concrete reason. He actually told me once that he could not commit to me because there were certain things about me he could not accept. He said he was trying and felt he would be able to accept them in time. The things he could not accept were personality traits, such as I was not as Type A as him.

 

It has taken me a long time to come to terms with and accept that I am who I am. If he doesn't want me, fine. There is someone out there who will love me for me. I have experienced much peace with this realization.

[2fargone]

I really am starting to feel like the people who hurt a lot and for the longest time are the most self involved.

 

I get that there are sometimes issues with self esteem etc underpinning it, but sometimes I can't help but think that some people are really selfish, and that is why they hold on. -like can't look outside of themselves?

 

I know little about psychology- copied this from wiki... some 'symptoms' of narcissism

 

 

 

• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
  
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
  
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her
  
• Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
  
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
  
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
  
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic
  

 

Couldn't some off this be applied to what people struggle with after a break up?

 

This is just something I have been thinking after reading a lot of posts. It is not something I am dead set on, or a perspective I am particularly fond of.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Being in emotional turmoil after a breakup is a temporary state. Being a narcissist is a permanent one.

 

 

Having said that, I do feel alot of dumpees somehow feel 'entitled' to having their ex back, an explanation that will suit their mindset, closure, whatever....

 

 

As long as it's a temporary state of mind, even for a couple of months, I wouldn't worry about it.

[BC1980]

I have read loads of your posts mtnbiker, I would say your progressing through things is healthy and as it should be. I wouldn't consider it selfish at all.

 

What I am meaning is when people get stuck in a loop, and stagnate rather than progress. Could that be a result of inward, or self involved rather than objective thinking?

 

I tend to think it has more to do with coping methods and possibly low self-esteem. Also, there are people who continue to remain in contact. I set myself back by remaining in LC for 4 months. I don't think it was selfish on my part. I was just so wanted to hang onto anything that my ex offered me that I bargained a way to be friends with him.

[melell]

Being in emotional turmoil after a breakup is a temporary state. Being a narcissist is a permanent one.

 

 

Having said that, I do feel alot of dumpees somehow feel 'entitled' to having their ex back, an explanation that will suit their mindset, closure, whatever....

 

 

As long as it's a temporary state of mind, even for a couple of months, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

I definitely agree. When it is temporary it is normal, but when it goes on for a long time it is not so good. I don't mean so much that people are narcissists, but that sometimes it can reflect those 'symptoms'. Like if you replaced 'others' with 'dumper'

 

 

• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments wanting contact, pining for validation, expecting the ex to recognize how wonderful you are
  
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement the mentality that the dumper is a villain if they don't offer these things
  
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her the dumper is great, but horrible for not returning the admiration
  
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others not accepting the dumpers perspective
  
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior feels that what they are thinking is the only answer- the dumper doesn't get it.
  
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic feels they should be wanted by the dumper
  

I think that this way of thinking could backfire and really limit the ability to heal. I was wondering if maybe people who get 'stuck' have some of these perspectives holding them up.

 

Actually, this is pretty much just being hung up on what the dumper does. I really doubt someone would get stuck because of this unless they were in contact.

Edited November 24, 2013 by melell

[mtnbiker3000]

I have read loads of your posts mtnbiker, I would say your progressing through things is healthy and as it should be. I wouldn't consider it selfish at all.

 

What I am meaning is when people get stuck in a loop, and stagnate rather than progress. Could that be a result of inward, or self involved rather than objective thinking?

 

Yeah. I understated what you mean now

 

Man. T-Day is going to be rough. That was when we first hung out in 2009 (actually this weekend) and the last time we were intimate in 2012 (when I kinda knew we were in trouble )...

[Never Again]

I have read loads of your posts mtnbiker, I would say your progressing through things is healthy and as it should be. I wouldn't consider it selfish at all.

 

What I am meaning is when people get stuck in a loop, and stagnate rather than progress. Could that be a result of inward, or self involved rather than objective thinking?

 

Self involved thinking during grief is not selfish.

 

Even if it's stagnant. The issues are often due to a sense of inadequacy. It's self directed thought, but all towards what's WRONG.

 

I cannot tell you how often I blamed myself for the breakup (it honestly was my fault, but that's a story I've told elsewhere). I'm at 5.5 months post-BU and 1.5 NC. Somedays, it feels like I'm right back at the beginning.

 

I still feel inadequate many days. I'm getting better and thinking of my ex less, but a BU shines a spotlight on everything you don't like about yourself, even if you exaggerate those flaws. It eats at you. Gnaws at the marrow of whatever self esteem you've got left after your "loving partner" left you crying in the dark.

 

I propose that the selfish dumpee is likely to move on more quickly because of that sense of entitlement. They deserve "better" after all.

[melell]

Yeah. I understated what you mean now

 

Man. T-Day is going to be rough. That was when we first hung out in 2009 (actually this weekend) and the last time we were intimate in 2012 (when I kinda knew we were in trouble )...

 

I feel ya. Honestly, so often I anticipate feeling bad more than actually feeling bad. Like I will have something coming up that I know will remind me of them, so I dread it, but then when the time comes I am absolutely fine and just like usual. I kinda think anticipating bad feelings is worse than the feeling itself!

[melell]

I propose that the selfish dumpee is likely to move on more quickly because of that sense of entitlement. They deserve "better" after all.

 

Good point, I did think that was more likely to happen.

 

And general feelings of inadequacy/insecurity, were more likely to be the cause of getting stuck.

 

I really know nothing about psychology at all, everyones feedback is really interesting

[mtnbiker3000]

I tend to agree with fenix... A BU really brings out every flaw and negative thought or feeling we have about ourselves. It absolutely destroyes any self esteem, at least temporarily. If I were smarter / stronger, I would simply make myself understand this and stop feeling bad immediately

[LostConfused123]

I just wanted to thank everyone for sharing and melell for starting this discussion.

Thinking about my own BU (been a month NC) and feeling like I "should be over this" and getting down on myself for not being over it yet has made me realize I'm really trying my best (I work hard, exercise, go out with friends, hobbies, even put up my Christmas décor etc) and not to beat myself up so much. It takes as long as it takes.

 

I love my family but can't talk to them about it so I pretty much have to hide my feelings from them. I swear to God, none of them knows how this feels. Joking of course but it's the way it seems. In fact if my mother knew I was using her computer right now to "whine" about my broken heart, she would say "Oh, forget him and just find someone else on a dating site"

SERIOUSLY!!! Oh, how I wish it were that easy to just "get over it" An expression I HATE btw!!!

She also said "well you should be happy it happened now and not later"

I mean I know that's true but I just want to lash out..."Oh, yeah. I'm F***ing thrilled!!!" LOL!

Anyway, thanks again everyone for sharing. I think I'm going to give myself a break and keep moving forward. I mean, it HAS to get better right? Also, I should be thinking of all the things I'm grateful for and all my blessings.

 

Idk, this time of year is either REALLY happy or a real PISSER!!!

But all the same, I wish everyone a happy holiday. As happy as possible anyway.

[mtnbiker3000]

I just wanted to thank everyone for sharing and melell for starting this discussion.

Thinking about my own BU (been a month NC) and feeling like I "should be over this" and getting down on myself for not being over it yet has made me realize I'm really trying my best (I work hard, exercise, go out with friends, hobbies, even put up my Christmas décor etc) and not to beat myself up so much. It takes as long as it takes.

 

I love my family but can't talk to them about it so I pretty much have to hide my feelings from them. I swear to God, none of them knows how this feels. Joking of course but it's the way it seems. In fact if my mother knew I was using her computer right now to "whine" about my broken heart, she would say "Oh, forget him and just find someone else on a dating site"

SERIOUSLY!!! Oh, how I wish it were that easy to just "get over it" An expression I HATE btw!!!

She also said "well you should be happy it happened now and not later"

I mean I know that's true but I just want to lash out..."Oh, yeah. I'm F***ing thrilled!!!" LOL!

Anyway, thanks again everyone for sharing. I think I'm going to give myself a break and keep moving forward. I mean, it HAS to get better right? Also, I should be thinking of all the things I'm grateful for and all my blessings.

 

Idk, this time of year is either REALLY happy or a real PISSER!!!

But all the same, I wish everyone a happy holiday. As happy as possible anyway.

 

Well, not be Buzz Killington, but 1 month is no time. This road is long and difficult. So, yes, cut yourself some slack, or else you will be beating yourself up for a long time to come... It takes as long as it takes. Just know that you've got peeps in your corner who will support you every step of the way. Stay NC and keep moving forward. Its all you can do

[todreaminblue]

i think when there is a break up it takes two ........i also think that when people truly break up it doesnt have to blamed on any one person in particular ....it comes down to compatability and some relationships just run their course.......

 

ill actively try and remember all the bad things to move on.....to distance myself but i dont forget i am the one who has a serious mental illness not only one but two compounded together...ill never forget that....my ex put up with a lot.......i would disappear......i would be suicidal and i had hospital stays...yes he did wrong things too........but we are better friends than lovers.....always have been good friends.......not him nor i are perfect....normally when i make a friend i dont lose them....in spite of my many flaws.....in spite of theirs......there is always a stronger thread that holds friendships together......i do believe to love someone you have to be their friend first because when crap happens you are naturally more forgiving....you know that person and they know you...i dont believe in blaming soemone else over me.....ill do it for a while but that is a defense mechanism so i dont wallow in hurt....when i have broken up with someone i am always the dumpee....i find it hard to let go.another flaw of mine.they move on before i do..............deb