Serial short term lover!

[AnyaNova]

It was a very simple demand. Accept that I don't believe that I only go for one type of woman. I don't go for one type of woman and never have. I'm attracted to all kinds so your argument is non applicable in my case.

 

 

Many types of women can have similar emotional issues. I am not disagreeing with your assessment that you have dated many types of women.

 

Personality type and emotional issues are NOT equatable at all. And p.s.--what somebody says their emotional issues are, and what they actually are are not always the same thing.

 

A very simple demand, btw, I am sure. But an extremely inappropriate one. And one that truly reveals that you might really want to do some consideration of the way you interact with women. You are not master over us, to command us what ideas we accept or reject. If you want to exit this conversation, feel free. It is your right. But holding the conversation hostage to my willingness to accept your statement (which is frankly and obviously mistaken), and commanding me as if I am your servant or at the least, your intellectual inferior (which, btw, I clearly am not) is not only rude and bad debate technique, but also clearly conveys on a surface level, the prejudice you hold towards women in general.

[L1ght]

I wasn't going to bother posting in this thread because it is so polarizing. L1ght and some others feel one way, Anyanova and some others feel completely the opposite...

 

L1ght I get what you are saying man. I've been hurt MANY times by women and believe me there were times I had nothing but hateful opinions towards women and I felt it was justified because well, I saw it as reality.

 

I also get what you are saying about having only casual relationships. Sometimes I feel that I'm not cut out for emotional relationships and would be better off having purely physical relationships so I don't get hurt.

 

But come on man, why would you want to go around hurting other people emotionally? I can understand having a casual relationship with both people understanding the situation by why try to hurt others emotionally just because they are women?

 

Do you really think all women are evil? So it's men = good because we have penises and women = bad because they have vaginas? Or perhaps you think it's because of societal programming? Or hormones?

 

You know it doesn't really matter what you are basing your opinion on. You are so set in your beliefs that nothing that is said is going to sway you...

 

As you said...

 

 

 

So if you didn't want debate, why did you even make this thread? Were you hoping that everyone would agree with you and praise you for your "enlightenment"?

I don't hate women. I understand them for who they are and I recognise the behavioural patterns that a guy has to be aware of the further he goes into a relationship with them.

Women in relationships are awesome....until they aren't so awesome anymore.

As for Anya? I don't see why I should engage with her if she isn't willing to accept that I don't believe that I only go for one type of woman. I never have. Love like many things is the spice of life and to deny ourselves variety is kinda dumb. Trust me, I've been trying to find a woman who can keep her sh*t together in a meaningful relationship but it just aint happening. After a certain point they all exhibit the same behaviour so staying with them until we reach that point sounds like an excellent plan to me

[L1ght]

Many types of women can have similar emotional issues. I am not disagreeing with your assessment that you have dated many types of women.

 

Personality type and emotional issues are NOT equatable at all. And p.s.--what somebody says their emotional issues are, and what they actually are are not always the same thing.

 

A very simple demand, btw, I am sure. But an extremely inappropriate one. And one that truly reveals that you might really want to do some consideration of the way you interact with women. You are not master over us, to command us what ideas we accept or reject. If you want to exit this conversation, feel free. It is your right. But holding the conversation hostage to my willingness to accept your statement (which is frankly and obviously mistaken), and commanding me as if I am your servant or at the least, your intellectual inferior (which, btw, I clearly am not) is not only rude and bad debate technique, but also clearly conveys on a surface level, the prejudice you hold towards women in general.

Like I say. I completely disagree with you.

No. every woman I have ever dated is not defined by having exactly the same emotional issues as all the rest of the others I have dated. My response to this issue will be the same regardless of how long you decide to prolong this line of thinking.

[L1ght]

L1ght,

 

 

 

would you continue to date a woman who was honest about her issues & did her best to work on them?

 

would you help her work on her issues?

 

j

That's actually an interesting question. Some women want advice and others don't....but its actually more complex than that. Sometimes if you get involved in helping a women through her issues she will start to question why you are doing it and if you are trying to manipulate her. So then basically you might just become part of the problem too.

My answer and from my experience is that yes, absolutely help a woman who wants a little helping hand but only if she asks for it. If she doesn't ask then don't get involved.

[AnyaNova]

hi anyanova,

 

i realized while reading this that his entire discussion reveals the suffering he's experiencing, maybe to a degree men prolong more than women, i don't know. but we are witnessing the suffering, that's for sure.

 

maybe men have such difficulty after separation because this is a more prevalent difficulty for men than for women: foo (families of origin) issues may be more difficult for men to manage, so that spills over into their love relationships, then that fails because of it, so they are left again with the foo. very sad.

 

j

 

I agree. Clearly this man has suffered much. I'm not sure men or women have more difficulty with FOO. I do think personality types play into it. In fact, I am convinced after observing several ISFJ's with family issues, that they are the least able to defend themselves internally against parental boundary incursions (although one of them that I know, thankfully, is starting to show some spunk and fire and is starting to stand up for herself against her constantly boundary violating mother!).

 

But yes, we are definitely seeing the results of much suffering in this thread. And sadly to say, some of it is our own.

 

Part of the reason I hope to persuade some men that might be reading this that this relational model is a terribly-hurtful-to-both-parties-involved idea, is because essentially, though I am sure combined with heavy parental command, what my ex did, not because of conscious choice or intent to hurt, but rather unconsciously because of his own extreme fears of abandonment, and his own fears that I would "discover" who he truly was and hate him. The sad irony, is that who he was, a very gentle, sweet, and emotional born-to-be-teacher who just wanted everyone in his life to be happy, who he was was someone that I would have wanted to be with. I wouldn't have left on discovering who he was. I was already seeing who he really was, and it was something to be nourished and treasured.

 

This conversation is fueled by suffering all around on all parties. Make no mistake about that.

[JoelBarish]

I don't hate women. I understand them for who they are and I recognise the behavioural patterns that a guy has to be aware of the further he goes into a relationship with

 

As I said, I once thought as you do. And I justified it because I saw it as reality.

 

But like others have said, there are plenty of women on this site that have experienced the same dramatic transformation from men that I've experienced with women.

 

You might believe that women are far more likely to have this dramatic transformation than men are, and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But surely you realize that many people would challenge that opinion and not blindly go along with it.

 

So what's the point of this debate? Everyone should agree to disagree. However L1ght, I still think you should go have your casual relationships. Just be upfront about it so no one gets hurt. Karma is a b1tch

[AnyaNova]

However L1ght, I still think you should go have your casual relationships. Just be upfront about it so no one gets hurt. Karma is a b1tch

 

Amen to that! That is what I have been trying to argue for.

[AnyaNova]

That's actually an interesting question. Some women want advice and others don't....but its actually more complex than that. Sometimes if you get involved in helping a women through her issues she will start to question why you are doing it and if you are trying to manipulate her. So then basically you might just become part of the problem too.

My answer and from my experience is that yes, absolutely help a woman who wants a little helping hand but only if she asks for it. If she doesn't ask then don't get involved.

 

Okay. Perhaps the women you have all dated have been different in every way shape or form that is discernible to man. HOWEVER, let us look at this from a statistics viewpoint.

 

Do you really think that the comparatively small sample size that you have taken (what probably N<30 out of the entire world's population of women, which is several billion) is enough to be able to truly generalize from this small sample size to the large one? Especially when there is not one single trait that seemingly defines them. If they are all from different populations (within the larger population of the world's women), than there is no logical and statistically valid way that you could generalize anything about the larger population of women at all! Inferential statistics cannot be applied in this situation. Statisticians everywhere are scoffing at the very idea.

 

So we are still left with the falsity of the underlying premise you are using to justify your generalization of women and the behavior your are extrapolating from that premise as "admirable."

[L1ght]

As I said, I once thought as you do. And I justified it because I saw it as reality.

 

But like others have said, there are plenty of women on this site that have experienced the same dramatic transformation from men that I've experienced with women.

 

You might believe that women are far more likely to have this dramatic transformation than men are, and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But surely you realize that many people would challenge that opinion and not blindly go along with it.

 

So what's the point of this debate? Everyone should agree to disagree. However L1ght, I still think you should go have your casual relationships. Just be upfront about it so no one gets hurt. Karma is a b1tch

Casual relationships. From my experience even when you are hooking up with someone after coming to some sort of arrangement that its a casual relationship it doesn't actually stop it from forming into a more serious relationship the further down the road you go. I mean having a f*ck buddy is not the same as having a relationship with someone be it casual or serious. I'm talking about intimacy and love as well as sex so keeping things casual isn't really an option.

So no. There will be no formal warnings of casual relationships or whatever before I engage with someone. I feel no need to go out of my way to tell a girl I'm pursuing my game plan....that's right it is a game and I intend to treat it as such as I enter into the whirlwind of romance and love with my next partner. She will have a game plan too as usual so I hope that mine is more successful than hers.

[AnyaNova]

i'd love links or titles of some discussions about the myers-briggs types. i've never applied them to my love relationships, only to career searches!

This one is really your best bet. It is more technical than the first book, but it is worth the work. You will understand each type so much better and the interaction between traits.

 

Please Understand Me II: Temperament, Character, Intelligence: David Keirsey: 9781885705020: Amazon.com: Books

 

In terms of websites..these two are pretty good,

 

Personality Junkie: Type Tests, Profiles, Careers, & Relationships

 

and

 

The Personality Page

 

sparring here can help prevent worse suffering, hopefully.

 

my ex has only made what was un- or sub-conscious conscious since i left. after 3 years, he's finally got himself some stability.

 

the pain of seeing someone so kind & gentle hurt & hate themself is a pain i never knew before. it feels so helpless. i finally found a gentle, sweet soul, but he just hated himself so much.

 

j

 

Did we date the same person??? Exactly! It is the first time I have dated someone who hated himself so damn much and it was the most horrid feeling to watch his parents throw him into gails of self-torment. He was so sweet and gentle. Ack. I have to stop writing about it or I am going to catapult myself into being sad about it all over again.

[L1ght]

Okay. Perhaps the women you have all dated have been different in every way shape or form that is discernible to man. HOWEVER, let us look at this from a statistics viewpoint.

 

Do you really think that the comparatively small sample size that you have taken (what probably N<30 out of the entire world's population of women, which is several billion) is enough to be able to truly generalize from this small sample size to the large one? Especially when there is not one single trait that seemingly defines them. If they are all from different populations (within the larger population of the world's women), than there is no logical and statistically valid way that you could generalize anything about the larger population of women at all! Inferential statistics cannot be applied in this situation. Statisticians everywhere are scoffing at the very idea.

 

So we are still left with the falsity of the underlying premise you are using to justify your generalization of women and the behavior your are extrapolating from that premise as "admirable."

Right. So by your logic since we have all only dated one type of person then we all may as well believe we have been with one person our whole lives.

Lol no thank you. The more I think about and the more you drag the subject on and on and on the more it makes me realise how fortunate I am to have been able to have a taste of a variety of different flavours but then again its not really classed as simply fortunate if a person is open minded and willing to engage with people of all shapes and sizes and from all kinds of different backgrounds.

Enough already on this line of thinking especially with respect to my relationships. You are simply wrong. Many flavours is good for the soul and anyone who denies themselves the variety of spices in life is an idiot. I'm not one of those people so take me out of that bracket. Maybe you are one of those people who is crippled by your inability to connect with more than one specific type of person. If so I suggest you get out more and meet new people.

[AnyaNova]

Right. So by your logic since we have all only dated one type of person then we all may as well believe we have been with one person our whole lives.

Lol no thank you. The more I think about and the more you drag the subject on and on and on the more it makes me realise how fortunate I am to have been able to have a taste of a variety of different flavours but then again its not really classed as simply fortunate if a person is open minded and willing to engage with people of all shapes and sizes and from all kinds of different backgrounds.

Enough already on this line of thinking especially with respect to my relationships. You are simply wrong. Many flavours is good for the soul and anyone who denies themselves the variety of spices in life is an idiot. I'm not one of those people so take me out of that bracket. Maybe you are one of those people who is crippled by your inability to connect with more than one specific type of person. If so I suggest you get out more and meet new people.

 

 

Now I know that you are not even carefully reading my posts. This is the exact opposite of what I'm arguing. I decided for the sake of the argument to go ahead and accept your premise and run with it. Even if every single woman you have ever dated is different in every way as you have posited, it still leads to the lack of ability to truly and rationally apply any type of generalization to women as a whole.

 

Yeah, what? Like you? No thanks to that.

[JoelBarish]

Casual relationships. From my experience even when you are hooking up with someone after coming to some sort of arrangement that its a casual relationship it doesn't actually stop it from forming into a more serious relationship the further down the road you go. I mean having a f*ck buddy is not the same as having a relationship with someone be it casual or serious. I'm talking about intimacy and love as well as sex so keeping things casual isn't really an option.

 

Are you talking about intimacy and love on your part or theirs?

 

Are you saying they will fall in love with you but on your end it will strictly be casual?

 

From my experience with casual relationships, I was the one who had trouble keeping it casual and then I would end up getting hurt.

 

Or are you saying there will be love and intimacy on your end too, but you will walk away before getting hurt?

 

Well if you, for your part, did love your serial gf, it would hurt you too if you dumped her and walked away first. Your feelings wouldn't vanish just because you preemptively dumped her. And if you could just walk away and hurt her like that, maybe you didn't really love her.

[L1ght]

Now I know that you are not even carefully reading my posts. This is the exact opposite of what I'm arguing. I decided for the sake of the argument to go ahead and accept your premise and run with it. Even if every single woman you have ever dated is different in every way as you have posited, it still leads to the lack of ability to truly and rationally apply any type of generalization to women as a whole.

 

Yeah, what? Like you? No thanks to that.

Lol and what a waste of time putting up an argument to something specifically about me that I immediately and categorically told you that you were wrong about in the first place that was wasn't it?

Do me a favour and think before you start on a tangent about a bunch of b*ull crap that has zero relevance to my experiences in future. Yes? Good and thank you.

[L1ght]

Are you talking about intimacy and love on your part or theirs?

 

Are you saying they will fall in love with you but on your end it will strictly be casual?

 

From my experience with casual relationships, I was the one who had trouble keeping it casual and then I would end up getting hurt.

 

Or are you saying there will be love and intimacy on your end too, but you will walk away before getting hurt?

 

Well if you, for your part, did love your serial gf, it would hurt you too if you dumped her and walked away first. Your feelings wouldn't vanish just because you preemptively dumped her. And if you could just walk away and hurt her like that, maybe you didn't really love her.

Don't get me wrong. The task ahead of me is a difficult task. I intend to go with the flow as usual and allow myself to give and receive intimacy and love....a two way street if you like. The hard part is that I intend to walk away as soon as I feel a shift in behavioural patterns from my female counter-part which is always an inevitability. As hard as it will be though the pain will be miniscule compared to the pain I would ultimately end up feeling if I hang around long enough to be taken for a fool by my other half.

 

So yeah basically I don't intend to be casual while she is being real. I will be real as long as I feel like she is being real then I'm out.

Edited November 29, 2013 by L1ght

[JoelBarish]

Don't get me wrong. The task ahead of me is a difficult task. I intend to go with the flow as usual and allow myself to give and receive intimacy and love....a two way street if you like. The hard part is that I intend to walk away as soon as I feel a shift in behavioural patterns from my female counter-part which is always an inevitability. As hard as it will be though the pain will be miniscule compared to the pain I would ultimately end up feeling if I hang around long enough to be taken for a fool by my other half.

 

So yeah basically I don't intend to be casual while she is being real. I will be real as long as I feel like she is being real then I'm out.

 

Fair enough. Yet there is risk of pain as long as feelings are involved whether that relationship lasts a few months or decades. The only way to completely avoid the risk is to not play at all.

[L1ght]

Fair enough. Yet there is risk of pain as long as feelings are involved whether that relationship lasts a few months or decades. The only way to completely avoid the risk is to not play at all.

We are the sum of our experiences so they say and we wouldn't exactly be growing if we didn't learn from them. From my point of view I see this new direction as being strong enough to leave when the timing is right instead of falsely believing that I should stay and try to make things work. Go while the going feels good(ie before it turns to dog crap) then find someone else.

[AnyaNova]

Lol and what a waste of time putting up an argument to something specifically about me that I immediately and categorically told you that you were wrong about in the first place that was wasn't it?

Do me a favour and think before you start on a tangent about a bunch of b*ull crap that has zero relevance to my experiences in future. Yes? Good and thank you.

 

Well, if you had immediately and categorically said, "I have dated not only many different types but women with all kinds of emotional issues as well" right off the bat, we wouldn't have gone on that tangent.

 

You, however, kept insisting on a definitional confusion between personality type and emotional issues.

 

Dude. It is not me who held up the argument, dear heart, it is you.

 

And to anyone else out there reading this who thinks I must be one hell of a bitch for speaking this way, please note that the only time I would take such a tone is when I have been exceedingly and long-termedly condescended to and had my intelligence insulted one to many times.

[AnyaNova]

well you & are both introverts (i think, sorry if i misunderstood), so it's more likely for us to find & love a man like this. the failure of the relationship caused me to try to become more extroverted & date extroverted men, which really set me back for a while, hating myself for being an introvert.

my ex has a very insular family who think they have his best interests at heart & have tried to protect his sensitive nature, so i sense that's different from your ex's. but the same thing, to see a sensitive man at war with himself is absolutely heartbreaking.

 

thanks again for the links,

 

j

 

I am indeed an introvert, though I can't remember if I said on this thread or not. Indeed. I don't think I could date a more than mildly extroverted man, they would not have any tolerance or ability to understand my need to withdraw.

 

Oh, his parents, I think, have so buried their own needs for prestige for their son under the guise of "in his best interests" and "its the best for him" that I don't think they can even recognize anymore the difference, or separate what they want for him and for themselves through him, from what is truly in his best interest based on his own personality, wants and needs.

 

Your welcome.

 

If your ex's name is Tim, perhaps we should PM!

[L1ght]

Well, if you had immediately and categorically said, "I have dated not only many different types but women with all kinds of emotional issues as well" right off the bat, we wouldn't have gone on that tangent.

 

You, however, kept insisting on a definitional confusion between personality type and emotional issues.

 

Dude. It is not me who held up the argument, dear heart, it is you.

 

And to anyone else out there reading this who thinks I must be one hell of a bitch for speaking this way, please note that the only time I would take such a tone is when I have been exceedingly and long-termedly condescended to and had my intelligence insulted one to many times.

and still it continues. Lol we have beaten this nonsensical irrelevant argument into the ground and now you are just making stuff up about me not addressing the topic when I clearly did. Anyway...yeah, so good luck with Tim. Hope you don't cry yourself to sleep tonight as he is banging some other girl instead of you. peace.

[AnyaNova]

Forgive the profanity.

 

Damn!

 

And again. Damn!

 

I won the conceptual argument hands down, by using inferential statistics to knock down the underpinnings of the premise you are using to justify your behavior.

 

That is true.

 

BUT,

 

I lost the under the table double bind that you set for me. I wonder how consciously you planned and engineered it.

 

There was no way for me to win.

 

If I appeared sweet and demure and failed to truly argue my point well enough to win. I lose in both regards. While remaining sweet and demure, the aspersions cast on the whole of my gender, including me, still remain.

 

But, if I took the course I chose, and argued the point well enough to win, and had the intelligence to be insulted in all the places you intended for me to be insulted, and had my increasing irritation become evident...

 

then under the table, even though you "lose" the ostensible argument, you still win...

 

Because, in your mind, and anyone sad enough to be completely like-minded with you, I have just proven myself to be another ball-busting bitch of the "type" or apologies "types" that you have known, and that you think all women are.

 

The truth is, you goad the sweetest person long enough in this manner, and being human, they will lash out.

 

I hope anyone intelligent who has seen enough of my posts here, knows that I tend to keep an even keel and with few exceptions (apologies for that one time, Mr. Scorpio, I really was sleep deprived!) have ever become angry or clearly irritated in my posts.

 

The difference between us, is that I entered this debate with no ulterior agendas and got roped in trying to honestly debate.

 

You entered with a double bind set up that in your mind, made it so that any female who took up your argument and actually had a chance of winning it, would so to lose by the nature of your double bind.

 

So peanut gallery. Yes. I got upset and in the course of this debate, angry at times.

 

That is true and I freely admit it and admit to being wrong in allowing that to affect me.

 

But here is a question.

 

Which of the two of us (or for those of you that might have PM'ed either one of us and feel uncomfortable thinking of it in terms of either of us individually), or if we were relational archetypes (excluding the variable of gender) which of us would you rather be in a relationship with?

[AnyaNova]

and still it continues. Lol we have beaten this nonsensical irrelevant argument into the ground and now you are just making stuff up about me not addressing the topic when I clearly did. Anyway...yeah, so good luck with Tim. Hope you don't cry yourself to sleep tonight as he is banging some other girl instead of you. peace.

 

You know. I don't even need to address this. You have clearly revealed who you really are.

[L1ght]

Forgive the profanity.

 

Damn!

 

And again. Damn!

 

I won the conceptual argument hands down, by using inferential statistics to knock down the underpinnings of the premise you are using to justify your behavior.

 

That is true.

 

BUT,

 

I lost the under the table double bind that you set for me. I wonder how consciously you planned and engineered it.

 

There was no way for me to win.

 

If I appeared sweet and demure and failed to truly argue my point well enough to win. I lose in both regards. While remaining sweet and demure, the aspersions cast on the whole of my gender, including me, still remain.

 

But, if I took the course I chose, and argued the point well enough to win, and had the intelligence to be insulted in all the places you intended for me to be insulted, and had my increasing irritation become evident...

 

then under the table, even though you "lose" the ostensible argument, you still win...

 

Because, in your mind, and anyone sad enough to be completely like-minded with you, I have just proven myself to be another ball-busting bitch of the "type" or apologies "types" that you have known, and that you think all women are.

 

The truth is, you goad the sweetest person long enough in this manner, and being human, they will lash out.

 

I hope anyone intelligent who has seen enough of my posts here, knows that I tend to keep an even keel and with few exceptions (apologies for that one time, Mr. Scorpio, I really was sleep deprived!) have ever become angry or clearly irritated in my posts.

 

The difference between us, is that I entered this debate with no ulterior agendas and got roped in trying to honestly debate.

 

You entered with a double bind set up that in your mind, made it so that any female who took up your argument and actually had a chance of winning it, would so to lose by the nature of your double bind.

 

So peanut gallery. Yes. I got upset and in the course of this debate, angry at times.

 

That is true and I freely admit it and admit to being wrong in allowing that to affect me.

 

But here is a question.

 

Which of the two of us (or for those of you that might have PM'ed either one of us and feel uncomfortable thinking of it in terms of either of us individually), or if we were relational archetypes (excluding the variable of gender) which of us would you rather be in a relationship with?

You didn't win anything. For starters the fact that your ex boyfriend needs approval from his parents before entering into a relationship with you suggests that he is not a real man and that you yourself go for guys who still live with their parents and probably have no real life experience to draw on to begin with. Secondly you completely ignored me when I said I don't go for one type of woman because you wanted to use this as an argument that I am not very experienced and that I don't know what I'm talking about. I told you that you were way off yet you continued along in ignorance anyway to satisfy your own agenda. And thirdly you are clearly completely insecure in who you are if you need a bunch of strangers to decide who is the better lover out of me and you. Lol I mean how pathetic is that? You need to prove you have won something instead of admitting you were wrong to ignore my totally justifiable stance that I have been with more than one type of woman. You are clearly a sh*t starter and will cause a problem out of nothing then drag it on and on and on in the hopes that the person you are debating will just give up and agree with you. Wow this has been illuminating.

[AnyaNova]

You didn't win anything. For starters the fact that your ex boyfriend needs approval from his parents before entering into a relationship with you suggests that he is not a real man and that you yourself go for guys who still live with their parents and probably have no real life experience to draw on to begin with. Secondly you completely ignored me when I said I don't go for one type of woman because you wanted to use this as an argument that I am not very experienced and that I don't know what I'm talking about. I told you that you were way off yet you continued along in ignorance anyway to satisfy your own agenda. And thirdly you are clearly completely insecure in who you are if you need a bunch of strangers to decide who is the better lover out of me and you. Lol I mean how pathetic is that? You need to prove you have won something instead of admitting you were wrong to ignore my totally justifiable stance that I have been with more than one type of woman. You are clearly a sh*t starter and will cause a problem out of nothing then drag it on and on and on in the hopes that the person you are debating will just give up and agree with you. Wow this has been illuminating.

 

You can not even see how in asking the question, I was addressing your main point throughout this whole entire thread?

 

It had nothing to do with me or my self-esteem. I really don't care, in and of myself, who the peanut gallery thinks is the better "lover" as you put it.

 

I was, however, making a fundamental point regarding the main topic of this whole entire thread. Surely your brilliance can see the point I was making.

[L1ght]

a few pages back i was going to intervene & say to L1ght that his aggression on this point betrayed a 'doth protest too much', a kind of desperation to set up a re-enactment to manifest his confirmation bias about women. but 1) it was between you two, & 2) i'm not sure it's the case. it's possible he's reaching for an understanding that this is not a gender issue, & exposure to the light of truth about some men as emotionally draining could inform him.

 

maybe, but at this point pursuing the types argument may be a matter of whose pyrrhic victory. if L1ght is in as much pain as it seems, it's possible his faculties are at a comparable disadvantage.

 

you both would work with someone on their issues, if you cared about them you wouldn't leave them just for having issues. at this time in my life that is most important, & i'm still new to LS (i don't know either one of you, so to speak, more than the other), so it's a tie for me.

 

j

Respect. I like the fact that you have left us to debate it alone. There's nothing worse than other people jumping in and picking sides when you're debating with someone. It just ends up becoming a case of whoever has the most people agreeing with them wins....but like I say its not a competition between me and Anya like she seems to believe it is.